Understanding Nerf Sensibility

[UncleMikeE]

I think conversations about power level are completely valid, but that wasn’t really the intention of my post. My point is more about why the word “nerf,” when tied to WX, gets such a strong reaction.

The affinity skills aren’t even out yet, but think about it this way: what feels better as a player—starting at 100% and ending at 50%, or starting at 25% and ending at 50%? It’s the same endpoint, but the experience is completely different. It’s a framing issue. People naturally prefer gaining something over losing it.

So my suggestion is simple: start small and build up, not the other way around.

That said, I don’t hate the current skill tree. I actually think it’s a big improvement overall. Even if the latest Alpha stat nerf doesn’t get reverted, I’ll be fine with it—it just means two fewer skill points I need to spend.

I will say, though, that WX was very powerful before the rework—but it was also a very different game back then. I’ve never gotten past Celestial Champion, never activated the rifts, and I’ve only beaten Ancient Fuelweaver with lureplant cheese. So in today’s game, I’m not sure I’m even qualified to take a hard stance on balance either way.

Personally, though, I’d still prefer original WX with a skill tree built around that foundation. Skill trees are meant to be something you grow into over time—they’re a reward. Their purpose is to make the game feel better the longer you play, not to gate parts of what you used to have. (And yeah, using console commands to skip that progression is basically cheesing it.)

WX does have a strong DPS path now. Once that spin attack gets AoE and some mobility—especially paired with something like the shadow maul—it’s going to be nasty.

And if that happens… we all know what comes next: another nerf. Which brings us right back to that same feeling of losing something.

 

[Kvetevk]

9 minutes ago, UncleMikeE said:

I think conversations about power level are completely valid, but that wasn’t really the intention of my post. My point is more about why the word “nerf,” when tied to WX, gets such a strong reaction.

The affinity skills aren’t even out yet, but think about it this way: what feels better as a player—starting at 100% and ending at 50%, or starting at 25% and ending at 50%? It’s the same endpoint, but the experience is completely different. It’s a framing issue. People naturally prefer gaining something over losing it.

So my suggestion is simple: start small and build up, not the other way around.

That said, I don’t hate the current skill tree. I actually think it’s a big improvement overall. Even if the latest Alpha stat nerf doesn’t get reverted, I’ll be fine with it—it just means two fewer skill points I need to spend.

I will say, though, that WX was very powerful before the rework—but it was also a very different game back then. I’ve never gotten past Celestial Champion, never activated the rifts, and I’ve only beaten Ancient Fuelweaver with lureplant cheese. So in today’s game, I’m not sure I’m even qualified to take a hard stance on balance either way.

Personally, though, I’d still prefer original WX with a skill tree built around that foundation. Skill trees are meant to be something you grow into over time—they’re a reward. Their purpose is to make the game feel better the longer you play, not to gate parts of what you used to have. (And yeah, using console commands to skip that progression is basically cheesing it.)

WX does have a strong DPS path now. Once that spin attack gets AoE and some mobility—especially paired with something like the shadow maul—it’s going to be nasty.

And if that happens… we all know what comes next: another nerf. Which brings us right back to that same feeling of losing something.

 

Klei has been balancing DS and DST all this time, I believe that they will make WX78 balanced while also being enjoyable.
We will just need to be like Wilson and not Maxwell, we should adapt to the constant rather than adapting the constant to us.

Edited April 5 by Kvetevk

[Jakepeng99]

4 hours ago, Radicaljoe said:

>"free"
>looks inside
>work

still have to scan Pearl/ck for the circuit and then make it and spend the insight. I'd say thats equal effort of making a one man band (or just, getting meat from piders at that point)

You’re going on about all this wormwood stuff. It’s takes way more work for Wormwood to upkeep his upsides. He needs to go to the ocean to get bottles to upkeep his bloom and stuff. Like calling getting the music box hard work is weird.

This is a one time thing that requires no upkeep and it isn’t hard to do. You naturally get it through gameplay
 

4 hours ago, Radicaljoe said:

not actually useful in most cases unless you're storing like a billion gears. Useful for moving a lot of logs when chopping trees I suppose. but once again, very limited timeframe of utility.

It’s not too much a selling point, but infinite storage is always good.

4 hours ago, Radicaljoe said:

Wigfrid still has better damage resistance with lifesteal, which, once again having large number isn't doing anything for WX. 440, 1000, doesn't matter, that HP still has to be filled someway, so the only difference is time when you heal, you heal many times mid fight, or one large healing moment. (also anyone can wear marble suits)

Yeah your probably right with this one overall though he is still one of the best. But, the electric circuit lets him tank many bosses previously untameable like Frostjaw with extreme efficiency and ease. It’s really good for lategame bosses like Crystal deerclops and bearger.

Mentioning the marble suit is dumb though. Like, WX can wear it too, and suffers no speed downside from it. 
 

4 hours ago, Radicaljoe said:

WX has BEEN worse than most characters. Klei gave WX an actually slightly enjoyable moment at the beginning of the beta, and then shot them again. 
Also keep in mind, that many people were holding their criticism until Gamma circuits released because they didn't want to judge WX with only 2/3 of the circuit perks available. And then gamma released, alongside nerfs, and no other changes to the tree. So I understand why many people got mad.

They are better than Wendy and Woodie who are some of the most played characters that have skilltrees.

Also I just wanna say, big number is strong Im not sure why everyone saying it isnt. It’s the secondary affects that matter. Having your Sainity not be a problem Im bosses and having lots of wiggle room with your health is good. Same as reduced hunger drain.

Edited April 5 by Jakepeng99

[Kvetevk]

2 minutes ago, Jakepeng99 said:

Hes better than Wendy and Woodie who are some of the most played characters that have skilltrees.

What about Wilson? Dont forget my goat.

[Jakepeng99]

9 minutes ago, Kvetevk said:

What about Wilson? Dont forget my goat.

I kinda just named whoever Is popular

I think they are better than Wilson, Willow, Wendy, Woody, Warly, Webber, Wigfrid, Winona (idk I feel like most her power is locked mainly to catapults), Wormwood and Wickerbottom (her books are good, but she doesn’t need to use them often, a lot of them are really niche)

He might be on the teir of Wortox and Walter

Edited April 5 by Jakepeng99

[Kvetevk]

Just now, Jakepeng99 said:

I kinda just named whoever Is popular

I think they are better than Wilson, Willow, Wendy, Woody, Warly, Webber, Wigfrid, Winona (idk I feel like most her power is locked mainly to catapults), and Wickerbottom (her books are good, but she doesn’t need to use them often, a lot of them are really niche)

Well in that case, he is better than everyone except like: Wolfgang, Wanda and Wortox

[Jakepeng99]

1 minute ago, Kvetevk said:

Well in that case, he is better than everyone except like: Wolfgang, Wanda and Wortox

I think they rival Wortox.

Wortox is my other main and WX can do the whole teleportation thing better. Being able to go between spots for zero cost is amazing. You can make constant stops between the same two points, and use your drones to send stuff back. Wortox needs to stop and get more souls, and needs to think much more about it.

WX also has the Beanbooster to passively heal himself, and has gears as a never perishing healing and food item likes souls, but is way better.

You can farm tons of gears and purple gems on a full moon which is kinda broken.

Wortox has the tp to anywhere on screen, and WX has faster movement which is overall better.

[Kvetevk]

2 minutes ago, Jakepeng99 said:

I think they rival Wortox.

Wortox is my other main and WX can do the whole teleportation thing better. Being able to go between spots for zero cost is amazing. You can make constant stops between the same two points, and use your drones to send stuff back. Wortox needs to stop and get more souls, and needs to think much more about it.

WX also has the Beanbooster to passively heal himself, and has gears as a never perishing healing and food item likes souls, but is way better.

You can farm tons of gears and purple gems on a full moon which is kinda broken.

Wortox has the tp to anywhere on screen, and WX has faster movement which is overall better.

Yeah but instead of walking, wortox can tp anywhere on the map and if we are talking about kitting bosses, Wortox have teleport iframes and he can heal much faster during combat (without needing a massive farm), also his weapon can do dark sword or hambat damage I think, and the weapon (the sack) is also cheap.

[beyond human]

2 hours ago, Jussatoon said:

So, from what I've been seeing, in regards to WX-78's combat capabilities, the general consensus is that it's not a good idea to give them a way to outright increases their damage, but rather give them abilities that are unique, and just so happen to also give them an edge in combat, like the Spin-Cycle. Is this correct?

My answer is depend on how good the abilities is.
I think character unique abilities must be strong enough to help player against late-game bosses, otherwise I will prefer to choose damage multiplier.
Right now I don't think this is a worth deal. Spin-Cycle has potential but still not good enough.

[Jakepeng99]

12 hours ago, Kvetevk said:

Yeah but instead of walking, wortox can tp anywhere on the map and if we are talking about kitting bosses, Wortox have teleport iframes and he can heal much faster during combat (without needing a massive farm), also his weapon can do dark sword or hambat damage I think, and the weapon (the sack) is also cheap.

WX has teleports too he doesn’t need to walk. Im not talking about his movement speed

WX teleports are way better than Wanda, Wortox, and Winona teleports once set up

[Kvetevk]

Just now, Jakepeng99 said:

WX has teleports too he doesn’t need to walk. Im not talking about his movement speed

Well yes, but without inventory and you can only teleport where you have chassis, so its kinda limited.

[Jakepeng99]

16 hours ago, Jussatoon said:

We're not missing Gamma circuits, we have them already. What's more accurate to say is that we're hoping for more Gamma circuits, as well as buffs to the existing ones.

There is one in the code but we don’t know if it’s scrapped. It’s a lifesteal circuit

17 minutes ago, Kvetevk said:

Well yes, but without inventory and you can only teleport where you have chassis, so its kinda limited.

Just get a drone and that limitation doesn’t exist.

[HowlVoid]

On 4/5/2026 at 1:45 AM, Radicaljoe said:

big number doesn't = strong
WX is very convenient. But that's about it. not having to use a thermal, being fast, or having to use a lantern at night are neat, but ultimately not amazing nor powerful. 
and even compared to other characters, WX isn't doing great, ignoring the boring comparison to Wurt/maxwell. Look at someone like Wormwood, who gets so many interesting perks, like uh idk let's say, the ability to not need a lantern, or be fast, while also having lots of other fun skills.
The game is designed around convenience, as the world progresses, WX gets less and less useful. fridge circuit? everyone eventually can get a mooncaller. need light? cc crown. speed is probably the one perk WX has that can't be replicated, (if you're not counting beefalo.) WX has a negative progression with the world, as everything else gets more available, WX gets worse, because WX's main perks become common commodities, and WX is just losing out on any actually special abilities everyone else has.

People love to make comparisons to characters they dont play.

Its costs wormwood hp to use his lightbugs and they easily get caught in stuff and get left behind. You gotta babysit them or they just poof when their timer runs out leaving you with no light. Wx-78 needs a latern? When they get, for a single slot, semi permanent light in a cone infront of them with no further upkeep cost?

Or their speed circuts? 

What other "fun" skills? Planting crops or growing mushrooms? Reflecting damage, oh no wait, wx can do that too.

One of the few places they dont overlap is Wormwoods traps. Even when it comes to saladmanders or garden tending Wx-78 can befriend for free now and can tend with the musical circuit.

Its just constant arguments of people downplaying the character to make them seem weak to get bigger buffs.

Also i find your argument incredibly flawed, you arent supposed to get increasingly worse items as you progress the game to avoid stepping on other characters toes. The gap between characters should be minimized as you approach endgame to balance out weaknesses other characters have. Yes to teleportation. Yes to better equipment. Yes to equipment with powerful abilities. 

We're arguing basic progression now and everyone gets mediocre rewards?

On 4/5/2026 at 8:32 AM, Radicaljoe said:

not actually useful in most cases unless you're storing like a billion gears. Useful for moving a lot of logs when chopping trees I suppose. but once again, very limited timeframe of utility.

Gathering glass, gathering rocks, gathering thulecite, gathering spider materials, grass, twigs,etc limited???? What.

On 4/5/2026 at 8:32 AM, Radicaljoe said:

>"free"
>looks inside
>work

still have to scan Pearl/ck for the circuit and then make it and spend the insight. I'd say thats equal effort of making a one man band (or just, getting meat from piders at that point)
 

Scan pearl... you mean the one location in the game that is guranteed to be discovered because of the guranteed message in the bottle that follows you in the ocean until you pick it up?

On 4/5/2026 at 8:32 AM, Radicaljoe said:

Wigfrid still has better damage resistance with lifesteal, which, once again having large number isn't doing anything for WX. 440, 1000, doesn't matter, that HP still has to be filled someway, so the only difference is time when you heal, you heal many times mid fight, or one large healing moment. (also anyone can wear marble suits)

Yeah they can still fill that niche. They can fill many many niches. And many roles that arent niche. Is the argument here that theyre not the absolute best and therefore we must disregard that they can tank? Its still a new and powerful ability. Are their powers always gonna be scrutinized because theyre not the absolute best at everything?

On 4/5/2026 at 8:32 AM, Radicaljoe said:

I'm sure this is in reference to the electric circuit, in which case I will say the morning star was also buffed this beta and doesn't require you to get hit to shock the enemy.

 

Is there a reason why you wouldnt use both? They work in tandem not against eachother. I find these arguments especially disingenuous "cant use my left arm because I have my right arm". The world doesnt work agaisnt Wx-78, they wont be weaker just because they cant out-utility every item in the game. Why wouldnt they use these tools alongside their abilities?

On 4/5/2026 at 8:32 AM, Radicaljoe said:

the rest I can agree on, and those are cool perks WX can have that are harder to replicate. But once again, so many other characters have more going for them.

WX has BEEN worse than most characters. Klei gave WX an actually slightly enjoyable moment at the beginning of the beta, and then shot them again. 
Also keep in mind, that many people were holding their criticism until Gamma circuits released because they didn't want to judge WX with only 2/3 of the circuit perks available. And then gamma released, alongside nerfs, and no other changes to the tree. So I understand why many people got mad.

The nutribrick is highly underrated imo. Getting rot its really easy with as early as an auto spider farm. Store 100 nutribricks in the inventory circuit and you have like 1k in hunger value. 

A 36% damage increase early to the pick/axe as an everday weapon and then even having a late game equivalent. 

Honestly not saying everything is perfect and some tweaks can be made (i dont think nutribrick should count as twig filler and should be its own thing) but the arguments I've seen that theyre the weakest in the game is so funny to me. 

Edit: I think the spin circuit could be made more early game.

Edited April 6 by HowlVoid

[Kvetevk]

20 minutes ago, HowlVoid said:

What other "fun" skills? Planting crops or growing mushrooms?

I like the mushroom skills tho. 

 

21 minutes ago, HowlVoid said:

People love to make comparisons to characters they dont play.

Its just constant arguments of people downplaying the character to make them seem weak to get bigger buffs.

Also i find your argument incredibly flawed, you arent supposed to get increasingly worse items as you progress the game to avoid stepping on other characters toes. The gap between characters should be minimized as you approach endgame to balance out weaknesses other characters have. Yes to teleportation. Yes to better equipment. Yes to equipment with powerful abilities. 

We're arguing basic progression now and everyone gets mediocre rewards?

I agree with you and I want to say that most of players that play either Wendy, WX78 and Webber are not a good or fun people. From experience, I can say that these people who main them will always want something more or powerful.

[gaymime]

On 4/6/2026 at 5:56 PM, Kvetevk said:

I like the mushroom skills tho. 

 

I agree with you and I want to say that most of players that play either Wendy, WX78 and Webber are not a good or fun people. From experience, I can say that these people who main them will always want something more or powerful.

i've known a lot of kind and gentle webbers over the years. while it certainly can be argued whether or not certain types of players are "fun" it is really reductive and dehumanising to say they aren't good people based expressly on the character they choose. maybe consider a rethink on that assertion?

Edited April 8 by gaymime

[ZeRoboButler]

On 4/6/2026 at 9:56 AM, Kvetevk said:

I agree with you and I want to say that most of players that play either Wendy, WX78 and Webber are not a good or fun people. From experience, I can say that these people who main them will always want something more or powerful.

Well I mean, I think that is a bit of a generalization, sure some people are outliers that make others look bad but you can't judge a group like that without damaging your view of a people.

In defense of Wx or at least people wanting their character to be stronger, a precedent has been set with how far a character can be taken. Obviously after waiting for literal years people get a bit defensive, they feel it is their turn for a fun character upgrade. Plus this is the time to make your opinion or voice known and to show why something is good or bad.

Don't get me wrong, I love Klei, I love Wx, but that doesn't mean that I can't be critical yet also provide helpful feed back. If you think something is wrong you have to explain why it is wrong, not just say "I hate this", we got to give them something to work with.

We got to justify with reason, not be callous and unreasonable. 

Edited April 8 by ZeRoboButler