Rework WX-78 Eating Gears

[gaymime]

1 hour ago, GRC said:

snip

so let me preface this by saying my position on the matter of gears is irrelevant. i just needed to say that i found your post to be a fascinating read. it isnt a new take but also i havent seen it in so long i had actually forgotten about it. seeing it mentioned now has some interesting implications.

Edited March 25 by gaymime

[Pruinae]

6 hours ago, GRC said:

why make it the base's problem that you can't take care of your own stats otherwise? Do your own exploring/fighting, or maybe contribute towards that kind of base sustainability so you could get that stat-help in other ways in the first place. But the pathos here isn't about how WX-78's should lose out on that kind of option though (even if not being the one committed to maintaining base should make that easier for them), it's about how that option's downside isn't the actual incentive of the ability and thus the downside can be reworked into something less tedious to others beyond the Gear consumer.

Every one of the ways to replenish Gears above is either RNG reliant, day-specific or far too much travel to remain situated around base. To someone focused on basing without the fortune of other players actually giving back to the base, the main resource being lost isn't Gears, it's the time not spent on base to replace them that is. Time that would be much more productively spent improving the state of the base rather than getting back a resource lost via an outdated incentive tied to a different game altogether. If someone else handles that for me while I can keep chipping away at setting up Pig House farms or whatever I'm trying to focus on, I can wait for a delayed fridge just fine. If only that courtesy were more common in practice.

Thank you for taking the time to write about the problem more in depth for me to understand.

What I got is that you hope for either the removal/change of WX's ability to delete gears, or for a new way to acquire them that requires effort proportional to getting other materials for a base.

Still, for your WX worries regarding statues to come through we would need:

1. For you to be late to the party or unlucky, so someone gets to the surface clockworks before you, and they end up not using it to build a base themselves for whatever reason (maybe you don't like building upon a base other players have started?), and they refuse to share the gears when asked. - I would be disappointed but not surprised
2. Another player rushing to put the statues in place before you can identify the missing gears problem, that would then hog the sketch for themselves (Players that rush FW have been communicative and nice in my experience, I wouldn't expect them to refuse lending or straight up giving you the sketches if you asked, they might just leave the sketches on the floor lol). - Very rare in my experience (They could be going for a clockwork army also now that I think about it, they should be fine with giving you like 6 gears though)

It's important to point out that you only need one of the sketches for your purpose, which reduces the RNG involved by a lot, it's likely you will find a head and the bodies by just exploring the map while looking for other things.

Both of these points are unlikely to happen at the same time, but for a few weeks when WX's skill tree comes out it might become more common than it should, and it should dwindle but remain being more common than before the skill tree.

Here's why I think you got the immediate pushback:
1. This problem won't affect the majority of the player base that isn't playing on public servers (and it seems it's also won't be common for the people here in the forums as well). It also might not really affect people that don't have a playstyle that is the same or similar to yours, even if they play on public servers, depending on their playstyle.
2. The fact that Klei "just" added the way to get gears through statues, so you can be seen as greedy for wanting even more (I don't think it's fair to you, but it's funny to think about).
3. You want a solution to something that isn't a problem yet, and might not even become, so people would rather wait and see.
4. (Well, this one I can only speak for myself) The fear of losing the iconic "press right click as WX, status go up sound ensues, funny gears noises" that is indeed a precious shiny relic of game design, which might be lost unintentionally if changes are directed at it (Klei tried once and reverted it, as others have pointed out).

I think a more common, current problem, is how sketches are handled in the game. If the sketches were forever unlocked globally to every present and future potter's wheel in surface and cave of that server as soon as XYZ is completed (for the clockwork ones, mining the complete statues during one of the moons), it would be a solution to the problem you presented (although I don't know if you would be satisfied enough with this indirect solution), because you would be guaranteed to get the statues by going after their unlock or simply by making a potter's wheel; as well as a solution to some other problems (like multiple bases wanting the same statues, or having to keep breaking and replenishing the same potter's wheel at different spots). This however, would be an indirect nerf to Wicker/Wanda (their mains are used to it teehee), so some people would be unhappy (they will still get their skill trees, they should be fine).

Good luck on your public server endeavors. May the Wormwoods, Winonas and Wickerbottoms be always on your side (Yes.. YESS.. Wickerbottom.. MAKE IT RAIN! SOAK THE ROBOT!! Make them SPILL THEIR GEARS!). 

Edited March 25 by Pruinae

[GimplyGoose]

43 minutes ago, Pruinae said:

I think a more common, current problem, is how sketches are handled in the game. If the sketches were forever unlocked globally to every present and future potter's wheel in surface and cave of that server as soon as XYZ is completed (for the clockwork ones, mining the complete statues during one of the moons), it would be a solution to the problem you presented (although I don't know if you would be satisfied enough with this indirect solution), because you would be guaranteed to get the statues by going after their unlock or simply by making a potter's wheel; as well as a solution to some other problems (like multiple bases wanting the same statues, or having to keep breaking and replenishing the same potter's wheel at different spots). This however, would be an indirect nerf to Wicker/Wanda (their mains are used to it teehee), so some people would be unhappy (they will still get their skill trees, they should be fine).

Man, tying the ability to craft statues to a world state instead of sketches associated with a single potter's wheel would be so nice. It wasn't even I thing I knew I wanted until now.

Also figured I would mention since it is a bit niche, but  some of what you wrote implies that the sketches associated with the knight bishop and rook aren't renewable. After breaking a clockwork statue, it unlocks the ability for tumbleweeds to drop new trinkets that you can trade to pig king for additional sketches.

[Pruinae]

4 minutes ago, GimplyGoose said:

Also figured I would mention since it is a bit niche, but  some of what you wrote implies that the sketches associated with the knight bishop and rook aren't renewable. After breaking a clockwork statue, it unlocks the ability for tumbleweeds to drop new trinkets that you can trade to pig king for additional sketches.

I thought about it but decided against mentioning it, since it isn't a reasonable solution to the problem OP is worried about (I think the chance to get the trinkets is better than the chance to get gears since gears share their pool with other items, but still would just extend the train of thought needlessly). Public servers don't usually go very far day-count-wise, so going for something that is quite a bit of situational RNG ends up being far back on the list of options.

[Kvetevk]

Even if the sketches were gone and caves disabled, you can still farm gears with twins of terror.

Terrarium cannot be destroyed, so you have no need to worry, also I'm pretty sure that you can get gears from Jimbo.

[ShadowDuelist]

I like how the eating gears mechanic works now, and gears as others mentioned just stockpile after most of the initial builds. So it’s fair that some character makes a late game use of them.
The only thing that I find odd is that they also fill your hunger.

WX and Wortox have an entirely different way to sustain themselves to the point that eventually they can exist entirely without ever eating or producing food.

I’d probably nerf the gears hunger gain when eaten so they work only as a health/sanity thing. But I’d also be fine if they leave it as it is.

Edited March 26 by ShadowDuelist

[GRC]

10 hours ago, Kvetevk said:

Even if the sketches were gone and caves disabled, you can still farm gears with twins of terror.

Terrarium cannot be destroyed, so you have no need to worry, also I'm pretty sure that you can get gears from Jimbo.

I went into it in a previous post, but the issue isn't that Gears can't be renewed, it's that they can't be renewed without a lot of time and effort abandoning all other projects to now focus on this one. In this case, prepping to fight Twins in the first autumn: We're assuming I already have the Terriarum, the luck that they don't spawn on a player outside of my base, the resources for the fight itself--and if I'm not playing a particularly combat-centric character, multiple other players to help (as I am not good enough at bosses to solo the Twins). Having to do all of that because someone didn't want Pierogi doesn't really feel like a fair exchange of effort saved, relative to what a WX could do otherwise to get those stats back. All other solutions for Gears recovery are likewise either huge time commitments away from the base or entirely luck-dependent.

Even ignoring the luck factor of Jimbo (which is only easy to do if you base close enough to regularly try with him in the first place), Jimbo unfortunately does not drop Gears. Ironically enough, the amount of bananas you can get from Jimbo on average means that the exact stats WX's are looking to replenish from eating Gears is readily accessible from him via Banana Shakes--the perfect solution to the inverse of the problem I'm finding.

17 hours ago, Pruinae said:

(Well, this one I can only speak for myself) The fear of losing the iconic "press right click as WX, status go up sound ensues, funny gears noises" that is indeed a precious shiny relic of game design, which might be lost unintentionally if changes are directed at it (Klei tried once and reverted it, as others have pointed out).

I mained WX-78 back in OG Don't Starve. Trust me, the serotonin that sound design creates, I get it. Again, my stance comes from how I'd want to find a way that lets us keep that exact moment in the game without necessarily holding firm to the exact same aftermath of it. I don't want to ever take away WX's omni-boost or the incentive such a thing inherently has, but I do want to reign in its ability to overall negatively impact other survivors. The negotiation of asking them for those Gears back before they're (likely yet understandably) turned into an extra chassis is just going to be a factor at play no matter what, but I really would rather lose to something constructively selfish like a semi-permanent upgrade than something destructively selfish like deleting Gears to skip the effort of making Surf 'n' Turf.

17 hours ago, Pruinae said:

I think a more common, current problem, is how sketches are handled in the game. If the sketches were forever unlocked globally to every present and future potter's wheel in surface and cave of that server as soon as XYZ is completed (for the clockwork ones, mining the complete statues during one of the moons), it would be a solution to the problem you presented (although I don't know if you would be satisfied enough with this indirect solution), because you would be guaranteed to get the statues by going after their unlock or simply by making a potter's wheel; as well as a solution to some other problems (like multiple bases wanting the same statues, or having to keep breaking and replenishing the same potter's wheel at different spots). This however, would be an indirect nerf to Wicker/Wanda (their mains are used to it teehee), so some people would be unhappy (they will still get their skill trees, they should be fine).

The Potter's Wheel stuff would do a lot to fix this issue. If the statues unlocked for everyone, that would immediately remove a layer of frustration by making it a consistent thing to always have access to Gears within range of base by the second Full Moon at absolute latest. While it doesn't address the issue I have with how WX-78's are given one extra trigger-finger (in addition to all the waste any character in the game is capable of in the first place), it would at least make contingencies for it much closer to the level of accommodating for any Wortox/Woodie/Webber who has a similar degree of leaping before they look. You are the first person all thread to actually engage in discussing ways this issue could be improved and I appreciate this break-down more than you know.

Edited March 26 by GRC

[YouKnowWho142]

1 hour ago, GRC said:

You are the first person all thread to actually engage in discussing ways this issue could be improved and I appreciate this break-down more than you know.

I don't think people have been discussing this specifically because most people don't see it as an issue. I feel like you're ignoring that.

[Kvetevk]

1 hour ago, GRC said:

I went into it in a previous post, but the issue isn't that Gears can't be renewed, it's that they can't be renewed without a lot of time and effort abandoning all other projects to now focus on this one. In this case, prepping to fight Twins in the first autumn: We're assuming I already have the Terriarum, the luck that they don't spawn on a player outside of my base, the resources for the fight itself--and if I'm not playing a particularly combat-centric character, multiple other players to help (as I am not good enough at bosses to solo the Twins). Having to do all of that because someone didn't want Pierogi doesn't really feel like a fair exchange of effort saved, relative to what a WX could do otherwise to get those stats back. All other solutions for Gears recovery are likewise either huge time commitments away from the base or entirely luck-dependent.

Even ignoring the luck factor of Jimbo (which is only easy to do if you base close enough to regularly try with him in the first place), Jimbo unfortunately does not drop Gears. Ironically enough, the amount of bananas you can get from Jimbo on average means that the exact stats WX's are looking to replenish from eating Gears is readily accessible from him via Banana Shakes--the perfect solution to the inverse of the problem I'm finding.

I dont see the issue, gears in the early game are only used for fridges, that cost 1 gears. Why would anybody farm them in large amount in the early game. If you are gonna blame other players for collecting the resources first, then that could be said for every other type of resource, I personally have not seen a single wx78 player who ate gears without already making a lot of them.
Also the new gamma circuit seems to give wx78 the option to make food from something (not 100% sure), so maybe this problem could be discussed after the gamma circuits are out.

[GRC]

1 hour ago, Kvetevk said:

I dont see the issue, gears in the early game are only used for fridges, that cost 1 gears. Why would anybody farm them in large amount in the early game. If you are gonna blame other players for collecting the resources first, then that could be said for every other type of resource, I personally have not seen a single wx78 player who ate gears without already making a lot of them.

I promise you from experience that the "I right-clicked Gears because I was low on Sanity/because I didn't know what would happen" WX experience is much more commonplace when you are the player to establish and primarily manage base. And I'm not talking being the guy who sets down Alchemy, I'm talking about, for days on end:

• Tending crops to be giant
• Killing/culling spiders
• Keeping fridges stocked and organized
• Replanting/fertilizing grass tufts/saplings/berry bushes
• Amassing rows of chests and items sorted within, ideally with mini-signs and pictures of what's in them
• Mining and replanting marble
• Catching birds and turning them into morsels for jerkys/eggs
• Setting up Pig farms
• Setting up the designated trash zone and staying on top of moving abandoned tools into it instead of wherever people haphazardly drop everything

If you're focused on all of that instead of anything else, it can all be done in natural flow at base each day solo, with just enough time between to step out of base for things like keeping Light Bulbs stocked, refilling watering cans or any other amount of biome-retreading you get to do depending on which biomes we're basing near that time. Ideally you have other players helping out with a lot of this throughout, but some folks are just trying to pit-stop before gearing up to fight Dragonfly, rush Ruins, find Moon Quay/Lunar or just do their own thing. Sometimes, you just don't get that kind of help. That's just how it goes if you want to enable people to make the most they possibly can out of the first 20 days of a world (or even less time for each day the only low-latency server in early-autumn has progressed).

All of the above, the moment a WX eats any of your Gears prior to Ice Boxes? One or more of those occasional outings are now committed to getting a replacement Gear if you want one sooner than later. Your chores aren't getting done every day you spend away from base. The base's quality-of-life is stinted compared to where it would be by Day 20, messes pile up (which spiral into more messes), the crops you're trying to save for turning into seeds once you finally have a Bird in its cage are on that much more of a time-pressure without spoilage slowed--I shouldn't have to go on.

Base nanny is already a thankless job and I just don't want it to be more tedious than it already is. It sucked to get mad at people who don't know better with WX back then, and it's going to continue to suck to get mad at people who don't know better with WX just as much later when Year of the Clockwork Knight is over (which, again, genuinely great solution for now, but will not remain a solution a year from now). While we're in a period where we can see what changes to WX-78 would work to improve the game, reworking the aftermath of one of WX-78's innate quirks to not be such a direct middle-finger to this playstyle is all I'm asking for.

2 hours ago, YouKnowWho142 said:

I don't think people have been discussing this specifically because most people don't see it as an issue. I feel like you're ignoring that.

I've been ignoring them up to this point because "I am not personally affected by this issue, therefore you shouldn't be affected as well" leaves room for little else than a "And yet I am affected by this issue, I would like to find a solution that neither of us hate" response ad nauseum.

Heck, I wouldn't have even written that essay to Kvetevk if more people were directly responding to the notion that time is a resource in Don't Starve Together and other methods of acquiring Gears aren't time-efficient to a baser playstyle. DST is meant to accommodate more playstyles than just being an explorer or a boss-rusher (Neither of which I'm even asking to nerf!), my only call-to-action is to change up a character's tertiary ability in such a way that doesn't indirectly-yet-immensely lower that playstyle's experience. What change could happen that keeps the benefit without specifically creating tedium for the baser in early-game? Great question, that's what I started this thread wanting to figure out.

I appreciate Pruinae's response particularly for trying to remain constructive towards a viable improvement in DST, even if they don't necessarily agree with my exact stance. Proposing an alternative in changing the Pottery Wheel is far more interesting and helpful discussion point than "I don't see it as an issue".

1 hour ago, Kvetevk said:

Also the new gamma circuit seems to give wx78 the option to make food from something (not 100% sure), so maybe this problem could be discussed after the gamma circuits are out.

Edit: I forgot to respond to this. Where can I learn more about this?

Edited March 26 by GRC

[Kvetevk]

38 minutes ago, GRC said:

All of the above, the moment a WX eats any of your Gears prior to Ice Boxes? One or more of those occasional outings are now committed to getting a replacement Gear if you want one sooner than later. Your chores aren't getting done every day you spend away from base. The base's quality-of-life is stinted compared to where it would be by Day 20, messes pile up (which spiral into more messes), the crops you're trying to save for turning into seeds once you finally have a Bird in its cage are on that much more of a time-pressure without spoilage slowed--I shouldn't have to go on.

Base nanny is already a thankless job and I just don't want it to be more tedious than it already is. It sucked to get mad at people who don't know better with WX back then, and it's going to continue to suck to get mad at people who don't know better with WX just as much later when Year of the Clockwork Knight is over (which, again, genuinely great solution for now, but will not remain a solution a year from now). While we're in a period where we can see what changes to WX-78 would work to improve the game, reworking the aftermath of one of WX-78's innate quirks to not be such a direct middle-finger to this playstyle is all I'm asking for.

That is a problem made by players and lack of communication, it doesnt matter if wx78 could or could not eat gears, a lot of new players or just a lazy ones that do nothing and drain resources from others are not only gonna eat your gears but also eat all your food. That is why we have private servers or servers that have dedicated players playing on them, being the one that takes care of everything in base is like you said a thankless job, mostly because every need is met by exploring the world and making new gear to hunt raid bosses for better loot, base for some people is just a storage space, for you its a full time job that will only attract new players to just sit there and eat your food. Yes wx78 eating gears is sometimes a bad thing, but they probably wont hammer your fridge just to get gears, scrap could also be alternative with half the stats, just because its easier to get (at least for me). I want to know if there is any other reason than other players getting the resources first.
 

38 minutes ago, GRC said:

Edit: I forgot to respond to this. Where can I learn more about this?

Spoiler

Redigestion Circuit and Nutribrick could be connected to each other.
There is animation that is probably connected to the Sonic-Invoker Circuit.
So I just put 2 and 2 together.

 

Edited March 26 by Kvetevk

[GimplyGoose]

21 hours ago, GRC said:

I've been ignoring them up to this point because "I am not personally affected by this issue, therefore you shouldn't be affected as well" leaves room for little else than a "And yet I am affected by this issue, I would like to find a solution that neither of us hate" response ad nauseum.

I hope my initial response didn't come off that way. The reasons I don't think that the gear eating mechanic needs to be updated are as follows:

• While gears are a semi-scarce resource early in the game, they are a resource that eventually becomes very accessible forever en masse.
• There are other resources that are scarce early and they can easily be used up by any character and not just WX (e.g. pigskin, living logs, gems).
• The existing mechanics that allow WX to eat gears can be effectively utilized in various circumstances. Changing the mechanics could jeopardize that.

I think the reason that so many people are quick to say "this is not a problem" regarding the ability for WX to eat gears is because their experience in game reflects that.

In a multiplayer context, while an inexperienced player using WX may be prone to being a gear sink, an experienced player using WX is more likely to be a source of gears. WX is a character that is incentivized to go to the ruins early and has perks enabling it to be an easier process compared to some other characters. There is an abundance of gears in the ruins and WX is more incentivized than other characters to collect the gears (because they are a food source). Sometimes when I loot the ruins, I leave the gears behind because other resources are more valuable to take back.

Edited March 27 by GimplyGoose
typo/grammar

[GRC]

2 hours ago, Kvetevk said:

That is a problem made by players and lack of communication, it doesnt matter if wx78 could or could not eat gears, a lot of new players or just a lazy ones that do nothing and drain resources from others are not only gonna eat your gears but also eat all your food. That is why we have private servers or servers that have dedicated players playing on them, being the one that takes care of everything in base is like you said a thankless job, mostly because every need is met by exploring the world and making new gear to hunt raid bosses for better loot, base for some people is just a storage space, for you its a full time job that will only attract new players to just sit there and eat your food. Yes wx78 eating gears is sometimes a bad thing, but they probably wont hammer your fridge just to get gears, scrap could also be alternative with half the stats, just because its easier to get (at least for me).

(Thank you for pointing out the one thread to me. Redigestion Circuit is, if nothing else, a very curious name.)

Managing a base draws in a lot of moochers as you said, but it's not altogether not worth doing or I just wouldn't do it. Being a home-body means that it's easier for players who come back from rushing Ruins to have a home proper to return to, and I've gotten the opportunity to help new players jump into the fun parts of Don't Starve a lot easier by handling the treadmill work in their stead. If I wanted to play Don't Starve by myself or privately with friends, I can easily do that. Playing the pub-server experience and keeping a group healthy is its own satisfaction for me.

The only times it truly falls into tedium territory is when I get a late-start on everything, either from only being able to find a server in Day 15 (and either starting from scratch close to Winter or being at the mercy of the prior base-creator's location), or you guessed it, having items snatched up that would've been much appreciated left for base setup. In the case of the latter, we'll never have or frankly need full childproofing from players being able to eat Mandrakes, unoptimally cook Meatballs/Meaty Stew, walk off with entire stacks of basic resources, so forth--that's just part of the DST experience. WX-78 specifically, not just the general kind of player bad habits but incentivized by a character in specific, has an ability that can destroy Gears the moment they hit the WX's inventory. A new player, enticed by a huge omni-stat replenishment, needs no malicious intent to end up eating them and wasting them, believing such an ability wouldn't exist if it wasn't an equal exchange with what else Gears are good for. Instead of just letting them do that, the fridge-to-be-builder now stuck with the consequences, would it not be a worthwhile change to just reduce the severity of those consequences? Players will want to get to do the things only their character can do, so without something as nuclear as just removing WX's ability to eat Gears, I think there would be value in reworking either this mechanic or a tangentially related system in DST to metaphorically like WX's eat their cake while basers can have it too.

If I'm not mistaken, these are the core aspects of WX-78 eating Gears people care about:

1. 75 Hunger, 60 Health, 50 Sanity immediately going to the consumer with no cooldown.
2. The beneficial effects exist in the form of an item that can stack, does not spoil and has a very quick animation to apply.
3. This ability has some form of limitation it must draw from, likely in the form of some expendable resource, to not be too easy to always access.
4. Gears are available in surplus during the Year of the Clockwork Horse event, as well as being found frequently within the Ruins itself as a great replenishment option for Ruins rushers. Gears are NOT made freely available to craft.

If we can satisfy leaving the above alone, with the following additionally being satisfied in relation to Gears lost due to WX eating them...

1. Any character can re-acquire the Gears in this method reliably, not being tied to the luck of drop-rates or abnormally-specific world-gen.
2. It is, on average, a relatively short time-frame for players in the first Autumn between starting and finishing this process to be back home with the Gears lost.
3. The re-acquirement process is not biome-specific or otherwise only a single location on the map.
4. This method does not rely on Lunar New Year Events being active.

...Then I'm pretty sure everyone just wins in as far as what this quirk of WX should be rather than simply what it is. It's just a discussion left on ideas that would satisfy all of that, unless there are other rules I'm neglecting here, in which case hearing them said aloud to further narrow the design-goals would help.

3 hours ago, Kvetevk said:

I want to know if there is any other reason than other players getting the resources first.

Regarding this final sentence, I'm not sure I understand what's being asked here. Could you please clarify for me?

[WendyHater9000]

Disagree with a mechanic just because players with bad manners will ruin your game is really a poor argument.

If this is why you want to change the mechanic, then:

Willow shouldn’t gain sanity while near fire cause it encourage burning the base down.

Walter shouldn’t be able to make marble and slow shot cause it will use all the marble and pgem from base. Don’t forget the scrap frame also will cause you unable to summon Cc.

Also like Wortox stealing all the red gem, Wanda take all the tusks, Maxwell hoarding all the nmf, Winona dumping all the stone and gold, etc.

I’ve played in pub server over thousands hours, and ngl, being able to produce the source which is lacking in base is the most attractive part.

No idea which part is fun just by building the base with the resources that others brought back.

If you don’t want it getting destroyed, just save them in your inventory instead of placing it in public reach

 

Edited March 27 by WendyHater9000

[Kvetevk]

5 hours ago, GRC said:

Regarding this final sentence, I'm not sure I understand what's being asked here. Could you please clarify for me?

I know that you want to remove the mechanic because of other players, there was no need explaining that further, but like @WendyHater9000 said, it's just a poor excuse.

Don't blame the game or the players, blame yourself for not leaving your comfort zone and not trying to improve yourself as a player, either way it is still a sandbox game, where you have to get the wanted resources yourself. Also it is your choice whether to play with others or not, removing a mechanic that was with us from the start, just because some people don't like the idea of sharing, from my viewpoint is just unreasonable.

And if I was not clear before, I was asking if there is any reason other than your bad luck with your surviving players.

Edited March 27 by Kvetevk

[ZeRoboButler]

I mean... meh? I get where you are coming from but gears are kinda like any other resource in the game now, with reliable places to get them, finite surface locations but also incredibly renewable. I remember "back in my day, we got our gears from tumble weeds and liked it" lol.

When I had initially started playing dst with friends, I found myself holding off on gear consumption for a very VERY long time and we wouldn't go into the caves until at least until summer, but times have changed a lot. Now gears are not a key component of getting stats, and circuits are the way of the machine now, the original change over to circuits fixed this issue very quickly, and now these days, gears are more plentiful then ever.

At this point, I wish there were more ways to use gears rather then eliminating ways they could be, more Wagstaff contraptions or more interactions with ancient tech or anything that puts them to good use. Call me what you will, but I like looking for new implementations rather then the out right removal of older things, Expanding and iterating on ideas rather then completely cutting something out.  

[BurningLance]

What if the devs makes it so WX slso could eat Scrap and Frazzled Wires.

Scrap could give half (or maybe less) of what gears gives and Wires could give half of what Scrap does.

Maybe crockpot pot dishes only WX can eat (or to be given to Clockworks) using the Scrap, Wires and Gears like:

Wired Spaghetti  Using Wires and Tomatoes, Scrappy Cookies using Scrap and honey and Gear Wellington using Gears,  Meat as main ingredients with somekind of fillers for all three.

 

Dont take this seriously but it would be cool tho and said resources more usage once the normal use for said materials is more or less expended or if one has a surplus hogging storage.

[Wikte]

Perhaps he could craft gears from Scrap + Frazzled Wires and maybe health or energy

[ZeRoboButler]

26 minutes ago, BurningLance said:

What if the devs makes it so WX slso could eat Scrap and Frazzled Wires.

Scrap could give half (or maybe less) of what gears gives and Wires could give half of what Scrap does.

Maybe crockpot pot dishes only WX can eat (or to be given to Clockworks) using the Scrap, Wires and Gears like:

Wired Spaghetti  Using Wires and Tomatoes, Scrappy Cookies using Scrap and honey and Gear Wellington using Gears,  Meat as main ingredients with somekind of fillers for all three.

 

Dont take this seriously but it would be cool tho and said resources more usage once the normal use for said materials is more or less expended or if one has a surplus hogging storage.

It's true that some of these could have new cool uses, but wires and scrap could use some better/additional ways of acquiring them. At the moment we get wires from luck with graves, in large amounts from clockworks underground (one time bulk collect per-fuelweaver kill) and a chance from the junk piles and scrap on monkey island. Scrap as well is bound to scrappy-were-pig kills or having him throw garbage at you in a particular way. Not to mention the fact that we have potentially other characters competing to get certain materials, adding more options for these would be great.

[gaymime]

On 3/25/2026 at 11:24 PM, Pruinae said:

I think a more common, current problem, is how sketches are handled in the game. If the sketches were forever unlocked globally to every present and future potter's wheel in surface and cave of that server as soon as XYZ is completed (for the clockwork ones, mining the complete statues during one of the moons), it would be a solution to the problem you presented (although I don't know if you would be satisfied enough with this indirect solution), because you would be guaranteed to get the statues by going after their unlock or simply by making a potter's wheel; as well as a solution to some other problems (like multiple bases wanting the same statues, or having to keep breaking and replenishing the same potter's wheel at different spots).

ok, i am REALLY breaking my rule of not posting in threads that are none of my business but i also now really want there to be a global unlock on sketches even if it does waste a bit of memory that could be used for something else. i had never thought about it despite having the same trouble every few months with statues and wheels and moving locations so i dont have to carry statues upsetting lengths of distance to decorate

[BurningLance]

10 hours ago, ZeRoboButler said:

It's true that some of these could have new cool uses, but wires and scrap could use some better/additional ways of acquiring them. At the moment we get wires from luck with graves, in large amounts from clockworks underground (one time bulk collect per-fuelweaver kill) and a chance from the junk piles and scrap on monkey island. Scrap as well is bound to scrappy-were-pig kills or having him throw garbage at you in a particular way. Not to mention the fact that we have potentially other characters competing to get certain materials, adding more options for these would be great.

yeah there should be more ways to get scrap and wires maybe add em into the tumbleweed loot pool perhaps and maybe a chance for wires and scrap from clockworks  above ground as well.

rummaging through the debris and chests you can pull up from the sea with the pinching winch could work too im guessing.

 

i know Winona can get plenty of scrap with her helmet for those caches perhaps wires too

[GRC]

14 hours ago, WendyHater9000 said:

If this is why you want to change the mechanic, then:

Willow shouldn’t gain sanity while near fire cause it encourage burning the base down.

Walter shouldn’t be able to make marble and slow shot cause it will use all the marble and pgem from base. Don’t forget the scrap frame also will cause you unable to summon Cc.

Also like Wortox stealing all the red gem, Wanda take all the tusks, Maxwell hoarding all the nmf, Winona dumping all the stone and gold, etc.

Willow gaining Sanity from fire is an additional synergy to the usual playstyle that every character will be doing in the first place: Setting fuel in fire pits in the later evening to provide light from Charlie and/or for cooking food. While Willow can benefit from burning down a base, there isn't any incentivized self-convenience to do so over other options. Generally Willow is going to absorb fires or prefer making their own fireballs for an even stronger Sanity-aura anyway, so only griefers would utilize that aspect of her character in the worst possible way.

Marble is a renewable resource at the base that multiple other characters will have reason to set up if the Walter himself isn't already doing so. Worst case scenario, Walter uses up all of the marble and denies specific characters benefits but isn't stinting the entire base's setup as marble isn't used for any base structures, let alone any items key to establishing a base's sustainability-loop. The same could arguably said about the purple gems that would've been nice for a Shadow Manipulator: Sucks to have a stretch-goal of progression like Tier 2 Magic delayed, but lacking one is not going to impact an early-game base anywhere as much as lacking an Ice Box will.

Those characters, and all the ones to follow, go onto fueling abilities or creating resources that can help other players and proactively require said items to actually use. WX-78 under no circumstances requires Gears to regain Hunger/Health/Sanity. Calling a self-stat-replenish the equivalent of powerful ranged damage, group healing/teleportation/revival, crowd-control/grossly accelerated Nightmare Fuel farming, a renewable head-slot armor that saves more Pig Skin for Hambats--calling all of that no different than "turning QoL-resources into a Surf 'n' Turf substitute" in the early-game does not feel like a good-faith comparison in my opinion. If WX eating Gears (somehow) gave players in proximity a buff/stat-replenish that's either unique or otherwise hard to come by in early-game, we'd be far more in the same ball-park here as far as the kind of exchange being made.

14 hours ago, Kvetevk said:

I know that you want to remove the mechanic because of other players, there was no need explaining that further, but like @WendyHater9000 said, it's just a poor excuse.

Don't blame the game or the players, blame yourself for not leaving your comfort zone and not trying to improve yourself as a player, either way it is still a sandbox game, where you have to get the wanted resources yourself. Also it is your choice whether to play with others or not, removing a mechanic that was with us from the start, just because some people don't like the idea of sharing, from my viewpoint is just unreasonable.

And if I was not clear before, I was asking if there is any reason other than your bad luck with your surviving players.

I think we're not on the same page here. I do not want to remove the mechanic of WX-78 eating Gears to replenish stats, I want to rework what the aftermath of said eating means for others who wanted to use those Gears more constructively. This was never intended to be a thread about how my negative experiences should be made up for by reducing WX players' own experience--I just want this game to feel better for everyone and see the WX-78 Skill Tree Beta period as the ideal timing that this particular aspect could be addressed in.

I'm not sure what you're suggesting here. My comfort-zone is continuing the flow of building up base. If I have to leave my comfort-zone to acquire more Gears, I can do that and I've been doing that at the cost of a worse base than where it could've been. Basing by myself would be the optimal play to avoid these issues, but I want to base in a way that helps other players and take up the risk that other players might hold me back in spite of it--all I'm looking for is either not having to worry about one of those variables altogether, or if it does remain a risk factor, having some kind of contingency that doesn't result in as big of a time-loss from basing efforts.

If there was any reason for me wanting WX-78 eating Gears to be reworked besides that? Not particularly, no. My only want here is just to improve the early-game basing experience by reducing the scale of course-direction base management has to take after an unassuming player's single right-click.

Edited March 27 by GRC

[Kvetevk]

1 hour ago, GRC said:

I think we're not on the same page here. I do not want to remove the mechanic of WX-78 eating Gears to replenish stats, I want to rework what the aftermath of said eating means for others who wanted to use those Gears more constructively. This was never intended to be a thread about how my negative experiences should be made up for by reducing WX players' own experience--I just want this game to feel better for everyone and see the WX-78 Skill Tree Beta period as the ideal timing that this particular aspect could be addressed in.

I'm not sure what you're suggesting here. My comfort-zone is continuing the flow of building up base. If I have to leave my comfort-zone to acquire more Gears, I can do that and I've been doing that at the cost of a worse base than where it could've been. Basing by myself would be the optimal play to avoid these issues, but I want to base in a way that helps other players and take up the risk that other players might hold me back in spite of it--all I'm looking for is either not having to worry about one of those variables altogether, or if it does remain a risk factor, having some kind of contingency that doesn't result in as big of a time-loss from basing efforts.

If there was any reason for me wanting WX-78 eating Gears to be reworked besides that? Not particularly, no. My only want here is just to improve the early-game basing experience by reducing the scale of course-direction base management has to take after an unassuming player's single right-click.

So you are saying that a single right-click is ruining your experience?
that is like saying I want to remove the ability to eat red shroom (-20hp) while having low health, having the ability to screw yourself or your team by a simple thing is a part of this game.
Also could you clarify more about:
1. what do you suggest should change
2. what is the reason it should be changed (be more specific)
3. how would it affect the game in any way
Edit: and try answering with just a few sentences (to these 3 points) 

Edited March 27 by Kvetevk

[GRC]

22 hours ago, GimplyGoose said:

I hope my initial response didn't come off that way. The reasons I don't think that the gear eating mechanic needs to be updated are as follows:

• While gears are a semi-scarce resource early in the game, they are a resource that eventually becomes very accessible forever en masse.
• There are other resources that are scarce early and they can easily be used up by any character and not just WX (e.g. pigskin, living logs, gems).
• The existing mechanics that allow WX to eat gears can be effectively utilized in various circumstances. Changing the mechanics could jeopardize that.

I think the reason that so many people are quick to say "this is not a problem" regarding the ability for WX to eat gears is because their experience in game reflects that.

In a multiplayer context, while an inexperienced player using WX may be prone to being a gear sink, an experienced player using WX is more likely to be a source of gears. WX is a character that is incentivized to go to the ruins early and has perks enabling it to be an easier process compared to some other characters. There is an abundance of gears in the ruins and WX is more incentivized than other characters to collect the gears (because they are a food source). Sometimes when I loot the ruins, I leave the gears behind because other resources are more valuable to take back.

(Finally getting around to this one! Sorry for the wait and for the wall of text to come.)

Thank you for the break-down. My primary concern again lies not with Gears themselves being scarce in the early-game, but the time it takes to replace them within early-game that goes from an inconvenience that must be juggled to an entire commitment away from any other projects at base. Let me get into a few other examples of other Day 20-prior scarce-resources:

• Living Logs - Without a Wormwood, gaining these are either needles in a haystack or RNG altogether. We got a nice start by finding a Totally Normal Tree, but someone then runs off with all the Living Logs before we get to create a Shadow Manipulator. If we ignore Tier 2 Magic being a relatively low-priority for early-game in favor of the principal that we should have had it by now regardless, course-correction means just being on top of chopping down a lot more trees planted around base to get Treeguards to eventually spawn in. While there's no way to assure when this will happen, staying on top of this task doesn't drag you away from the various other chores in base for the simple fact that trees can be planted nearly anywhere and thus this task can be optimized to make itself an inconvenience that'll eventually be solved without neglecting anything else.
• Pig Skin - This one's trickier to quantify. On the one hand, your staple early-game combat tools are missing if someone snatches up all the Pig Skin before you can make them, and becomes that much worse if they destroy every Pig Head/House around. Alternatively, you could argue it's more in the territory of griefing if folks are tearing down the Pig Houses you make near base in the first place (which is kinda outside the purview of all this, it's not a thread about anti-griefing measures). Either way, I'd argue that Pig Skin isn't ultimately necessary for progression. Tentacle Spikes are abundant in the Swamp and Log Suits are easy to amass--those alone should take care of most combat needs if one can manage keeping track of their backpack, while Tier 2 Magic can more than make up for a lack of Pig Skin if NMF is in abundance. In an even worse case scenario, fighting as a character without combat-advantages and only a Spear and a dream, kiting altogether negates the issues of damage reduction while any additional skill-gap can be made up for in base-defenses via Cobblestones and Tooth Traps to make the very place most of your time has been spent in into the only defense you need. As far as base-development goes, Pig Skin's absence is ultimately an inconvenience at worst in early-game. None of this is to call Pig Skin a not-valuable resource, just that as far as the nature of my issue goes and how much it plays into managing a base, Pig Skin shortage affects nomadic playstyles far more. All of this "We don't need Pig Skin!" cope assuming we have to go without Pig Skin in the first place--if allowed to set up a Pig Farm at base, it's easy to replenish without ever needing to take one's eyes off the crops and bird traps.
• Gold Nuggets - "Scarce." Another component required for both of Gears' important structure recipes, and one in much higher demand between the various other items it can make. Obviously this isn't hard to amass if one commits to it, but it is admittedly more than just an inconvenience in early-game if a base in development altogether lacks it and you're not within proximity of Pig King. This resource, despite being far easier to amass than the other two, has the most in common with Gears for all those reasons as far as my Gears issue goes. A full set of Alchemy Engine, Bird Cage and Ice Box for base essentials before the first Winter requires 12 Gold Nuggets (before accounting for tools, base QoL (like Gramophone pre-Friendly Fruit Fly/One-Man Band) and later-season structures (like Lightning Rod and Flingo). The critical difference between Gold and Gears however is how Gold's availability often sits in places that give additional bang-for-buck in the first place. You're going to want more Rocks, Flint and Nitre from the Quarry, more Pig Skin near Pig King, more Light Bulbs and a number of other valuables from the Caves, so forth. The only equivalent Gears have are Tumbleweeds and Graves, which are fickle in as far as when they'll actually drop Gears and drop trinkets for more Gold anyway. Ultimately, they both require a trip out of base when ran out of: Getting Gold is grabbing groceries in your area; Getting Gears is getting your phone repaired in the only place that can across town.
• Gems - Frankly, the closest full equivalent here as far as availability goes. They're renewable, but they're a pain in the ass to get more of without RNG or entire adventures. The crucial difference I feel (besides the fact that WX-78 can't eat them) is that Gems don't contribute to the sustainability-loop a base is about setting up. Like Pig Skin, the value of what they make shouldn't be understated, yet said items ultimately assist more with combat or later-game progression items than anything a base will find use for within early-game. Shadow Manipulator and Scaled Furnace (if we even count it for effectively self-funding upon Dragonfly's defeat) are substantial upgrades if acquired before Winter, but nothing that will feel sorely missing for long-term survival if procrastinated.

In tl;dr to the bullet-paragraphs: While any character can waste any resource, no other resource in the early-game than Gears is as immediately valuable as it is difficult to replace, and no other character than WX-78 is capable of using up that resource specifically in a way that doesn't advance the state of the group. Even a Gear stolen for a Chassis has the consolation of being a semi-permanent upgrade within the group--losing Gears for an omni-stat heal advances none of the WX-78, the other players or the base.

I can't change other peoples' experiences and I understand that people who don't commit to managing public bases will not personally resonate with the issue I've felt impacted by. Again, there's not a whole lot to say in response to those who just leave it at "I don't find this to be an issue, therefore neither should you". Any party who is removed from those feelings and primarily concerned with the state and viability of WX's ability to gain omni-stats off of Gears would be more helpful to address that point: How can WX-78 maintain this powerful niche without unnecessarily compromising other players in early-game specifically? Whether or not that's a change to directly WX-78 or a change to something else in DST (I think back to the brilliant Potter's Wheel suggestion made earlier!), I'm much happier to see the words of those looking to resolve an indirect design-challenge than those insisting there is no design-challenge in the first place (or that any surrounding change is bad on principle, even if the exact benefit they want remains completely unchanged).

As far as experienced WX players who have baseline DST etiquette, I 100% trust them to know they have an option to stint the base's growth but won't choose to do so, much as I trust any player of any character to know by default not to grief or needlessly waste. Their ability to effectively Ruins rush is appreciated, as are the goods they'll bring along. Our base, well-equipped to house their spoils and all the better to enable them on immediately starting their next adventure with minimum downtime managing their stats and stocking up supplies, exists the way it does because they did not give into selfish temptation. To you, specifically you WX-78 players who resist that temptation and hold hope there's someone to actually share these Ruins spoils with: I love that Gears have that benefit for you because of how much it means you can do your job quickly and easily and I do not want to take that away, period. I'd like my job to somehow remain just about as quick and easy to do, even if the dunce WX's do the very thing you know not to, so that both of us are equally proud of our accomplishments when folks like you come home. All that takes is finding a way to mean a base-manager can either ask for those eaten-Gears back from a mistake not made in malice, or if it can't be undone, a way to quickly, easily get another Gear to replace those lost without losing precious days of time to do so.

So while I understand you (GimplyGoose, I don't know how much that overlaps with the above you's) don't think the Gear-eating mechanic needs an update, I have to disagree based on my own experience (or at least with the notion that nothing should be done about it whatsoever, if the change is through something that isn't that mechanic specifically). I won't assume sharing mine in a verbose matter automatically means you'll necessarily change your mind on this, but I hope it at least communicates where I'm coming from and why I think "I don't find this to be an issue, therefore neither should you" is sooner worth ignoring than debating with. I'd rather debate design-goals and brainstorm solutions on how and where an arguably outdated mechanic (and its less-common implications in my case) can change for the better.

[GRC]

1 hour ago, Kvetevk said:

So you are saying that a single right-click is ruining your experience?
that is like saying I want to remove the ability to eat red shroom (-20hp) while having low health, having the ability to screw yourself or your team by a simple thing is a part of this game.
Also could you clarify more about:
1. what do you suggest should change
2. what is the reason it should be changed (be more specific)
3. how would it affect the game in any way
Edit: and try answering with just a few sentences (to these 3 points) 

A single right-click, at the right time and wrong place, does leave me having less fun with the game, yeah. I'm not worried about reigning in all the potential right-clicks in DST that can do that, just this one in particular.

I'll try my best to be brief.

1. I suggest WX-78 maintains their ability to eat Gears while other players replacing said Gears no longer takes multiple days and/or excessive luck to do so, ideally with a consistent solution either within proximity of their base and/or quickly within early-game Autumn. (I don't have a more specific suggestion than that, that's what I wanted to brainstorm.)

2. The reason it should be changed is so that players who spend as much time as possible working on base (so others don't have to) and have the foresight/adaptability to these circumstances can continue to stay on top of their daily chores without losing as much time as they can currently plan for.

3. Once the Year of the Clockwork Horse is over, this would be a long-term solution to this issue that doesn't rely on yearly/seasonal events. If the right ideas are proposed: This would primarily affect the early-game player-experience such that a base-builder of a sufficient task-management level can bounce back from said inconvenience without neglecting their chores as long as the average make-up period currently requires. Bases in public-servers would likely be more prepared on average to sustain a big group of players, servers less likely to fizzle out before Winter even begins. WX-78's beneficiary interactions with Gears either remain completely unchanged or are perceived as a buff (depending on what was reworked).

• Consequence of the above likely includes DST's early-game being made even easier in some form or another. (Which, yeah, Skill Trees tend to do that no matter what.)