Why don't klei do balance patches to skill trees?

[Mysterious box]

5 hours ago, Gashzer said:

You know why wendy skilltree was horribly handled? Because absolutely no one posted any real gameplay test footage it was all just people complaining without any coherent solutions. People need to see the problems in action to make accurate judgements, not just reading text on a page.

To be fair some people actually did post some decent gameplay and changes were made due to it in both directions but later in some people started posting gameplay that was clearly made to make things look worse/better than they were which probably confused them down the line after a point. Still I feel like what we got was good it just needed a few tweaks to polish it but that kinda holds true for quite a few trees. Here's hoping Warly gets some good feedback as well though.

1 hour ago, Gashzer said:

Aye, its easy to spawn things like Walter's jelly grip or clockwork bishops and gears in then cry OP as you destroy bosses on day 1 showcase videos but measuring the convenience of obtaining these things verses other methods for killing bosses in real gameplay is a different story and is were 95% of the balancing comes from.

 

Yeah this specifically was probably the biggest reason the badge system was dropped.

[DegenerateFurry]

4 hours ago, Gashzer said:

Aye, its easy to spawn things like Walter's jelly grip or clockwork bishops and gears in then cry OP as you destroy bosses on day 1 showcase videos but measuring the convenience of obtaining these things verses other methods for killing bosses in real gameplay is a different story and is were 95% of the balancing comes from.

 

Yeah, jelly grip's a good example too since you might think you can get it day 11, but Glommer takes a while to crap out a jelly for you to use and your server-mates will be angry with you if you kill him for a piece early. That and the cheaper silk wrap still has a few niches even after day 11 due to the firing speed ramp-up. 

Edited March 9 by DegenerateFurry

[Gashzer]

19 minutes ago, DegenerateFurry said:

Yeah, jelly grip's a good example too since you might think you can get it day 11, but Glommer takes a while to crap out a jelly for you to use and your server-mates will be angry with you if you kill him for a piece early. That and the cheaper silk wrap still has a few niches even after day 11 due to the firing speed ramp-up. 

I meant the royal jelly grip from bee queen . Which i can get at day 10 consistently with a silk grip but i have the patience of a saint to fight bee queen for 2 ingame days straight that other people might not want to do.

Regular glommer jelly grip is decent but not OP and allows you to main the slingshot for bosses. Silk grip is good if you have a team or followers to draw aggro.

Edited March 9 by Gashzer

[DegenerateFurry]

Just now, Gashzer said:

I meant the royal jelly grip from bee queen .

Regular glommer jelly grip is decent but not OP and allows you to main the slingshot for bosses. Silk grip is good if you have a team or followers to draw aggro.

Oh, oops. My bad. Still, what I said about glommer grip vs silk wrap is true of BQ grip vs void wrap: both have their place, as you're saying... and now your point about the work required to get something is stronger since you meant the BQ grip.

Killing BQ as Walter is extremely high-risk in my experience. If you screw up once, you get dismounted, and if you do that at the wrong time, you're gonna quickly die from grumbles. 

Edited March 9 by DegenerateFurry

[Gashzer]

3 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

To be fair some people actually did post some decent gameplay and changes were made due to it in both directions but later in some people started posting gameplay that was clearly made to make things look worse/better than they were which probably confused them down the line after a point. Still I feel like what we got was good it just needed a few tweaks to polish it but that kinda holds true for quite a few trees. Here's hoping Warly gets some good feedback as well though.

I actually like Wendy's skilltree. But i think the problem is that what people expect Wendy to be is so vast.

Is she this high skill ceiling beefalo riding death machine?

Or is wendy meant to depend on Abigail for most of the fighting with lunar abigail + potions allowing abigail to solo bosses for Wendy players that are of low combat skill but are willing to grind potions?

Community and Klei themselves didnt have a clue.

4 minutes ago, DegenerateFurry said:

Killing BQ as Walter is extremely high-risk in my experience. If you screw up once, you get dismounted, and if you do that at the wrong time, you're gonna quickly die from grumbles. 

Is it tho? I think its incredibly easy to solo bee queen as walter with basic marble rounds and a silk grip. Woby is fast enough to easily outrun the grumbles and as long as you dont get greedy trying to fire more than 2-3 shots at bee queen before kiting you will be fine.

Its a test of endurance more than skill. Can you fight bee queen for 16mins straight without doing a silly mistake? I can with no problem but maybe others cant.

[DegenerateFurry]

9 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

Is it tho? I think its incredibly easy to solo bee queen as walter with basic marble rounds and a silk grip. Woby is fast enough to easily outrun the grumbles and as long as you dont get greedy trying to fire more than 2-3 shots at bee queen before kiting you will be fine.

Its a test of endurance more than skill. Can you fight bee queen for 16mins straight without doing a silly mistake? I can with no problem but maybe others cant.

It's easy if you don't make a single mistake by getting greedy, and if nothing else (hound wave/oops I forgot to kill every beehive in the area/frog/etc) goes wrong. Those are achievable if you're good at the game, careful, and prepare the area properly, but the risk still exists and you can die in any point of the fight if you lose your focus or get cocky/greedy. 

[Gashzer]

Just now, DegenerateFurry said:

It's easy if you don't make a single mistake by getting greedy, and if nothing else (hound wave/oops I forgot to kill every beehive in the area/frog/etc) goes wrong. Those are achievable if you're good at the game, careful, and prepare the area properly, but the risk still exists and you can die in any point of the fight if you lose your focus or get cocky/greedy. 

But being not greedy is not that hard to do. I do clear out nearby beehives before starting, takes 2secs, frogs attack so slow and are so loud hopping about you should always be able to dodge them. 

Hounds, yeahhh hounds are bad ill give you that, but at day 10 you wont have a hound wave that is of any threat.

Walter is definitely in the top 3 characters for conveniently rushing bee queen first autumn. His bee allergy is a trick played by Bee queen to scare away noobs, in reality she fears the boy and his doggo 

[Volt Warly]

14 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

不会，但你会因为某人没照你说的做而威胁抢劫他吗？

Of course they shouldn't adopt every opinion, and I also think game developers shouldn't take player suggestions as gospel, but Wendy still has a skill point for reviving butterflies, and Pearl's beautiful island is still a battlefield paved with scrap.

Klei doesn’t need to make games entirely according to players' wishes, but they should at least show a trend of moving in a positive direction. The subsequent optimizations of elements like Lunar Hail, Crystal-Crested Buzzard, and Inimical Gestalt reflect exactly that—and I believe this is what good updates look like.

You can check my comment history—I have never publicly insulted Klei or any specific individual. Quite the opposite—if I saw someone personally attacking others on the forum, I would be the first to oppose such behavior. But at the same time, I simply cannot accept arrogance from the creators.

What kind of updates make me feel that the developers are a bit arrogant? Take W.A.R.B.O.T., for example. It's clear that a portion of DST players are base-builders, and Hermit Island is a unique, one-of-a-kind treasure spot on the entire map. What did Klei do? They turned it into a battleground for the main storyline boss. For those players who wanted to build a beautiful bay island, their gaming experience is completely destroyed (unless you choose not to experience the final content of the lunar storyline).

SO what should players do in this situation?

[Mysterious box]

28 minutes ago, Volt Warly said:

You can check my comment history—I have never publicly insulted Klei or any specific individual. Quite the opposite—if I saw someone personally attacking others on the forum, I would be the first to oppose such behavior. But at the same time, I simply cannot accept arrogance from the creators.

 

23 hours ago, Volt Warly said:

unless he doesn’t listen even when kindly advised

Oh so your that type the I've never harassed people or called for violence but I'm more than willing to support those who do that type of person. I don't care where your personal moral compass lands but this is disgusting behavior and the peak of arrogance which is what you ironically accuse Klei of 

 

33 minutes ago, Volt Warly said:

SO what should players do in this situation?

Long story short they have various options.

1. Respectfully give feedback and provide evidence in a way that isn't drastic or exaggerated as those tend to be ignored.

2. Bring it up every so often but don't spam perhaps even see if you can ask their opinions on the matter in the livestreams.

3. If they truly have no intention of changing things on specific aspects respect that it's their game it's fine to vent or even still bring things up many still do even for very long standing aspects of the game they may eventually change their minds on things.

 

However supporting harassment or even participating in it is a quick way to posion your argument and is more likely to lead to situation where nothing productive comes of it.

41 minutes ago, Volt Warly said:

still has a skill point for reviving butterflies

It's a flavor perk much like Wormwood's bee friendship and Wurt's mosquito tab.

[Evelo]

2 hours ago, Volt Warly said:

I have never publicly insulted Klei or any specific individual. Quite the opposite

Quote

Finallly I saw the last remaining HUMAN

Instead you insulted the community as a whole.

[Edible Coal]

4 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

Long story short they have various options.

1. Respectfully give feedback and provide evidence in a way that isn't drastic or exaggerated as those tend to be ignored.

2. Bring it up every so often but don't spam perhaps even see if you can ask their opinions on the matter in the livestreams.

3. If they truly have no intention of changing things on specific aspects respect that it's their game it's fine to vent or even still bring things up many still do even for very long standing aspects of the game they may eventually change their minds on things.

 

true, i understand the frustrations of the dev never listening to players advice, but harassing or being mean will never slove the issue

[DVGMedia]

I personally  think skill trees need a bit more to them.  Like make choices actually meaningful.  Most trees have kind of been set as a here is the most optimal way to play  And That is kind of frustrating.  There are slight deviations here and there but its just not enough.  i feel like each tree should be looked at now that players had time to play with them. 

Theres way too many filler options on alot of trees that don't share the same weight as the points that are spent on them and are only really there to boost the later skills in that branch.
and while utility varies on how the player plays the skill trees should feel like its player made Suited for what the player of that character does.  Its kind of why people liked walters tree so much because alot of his things are just quadrants  you can get any perks in that quadrent without needing specific ones to unlock a better perk.  

Im a wendy main and so i wanted to have more ways to modify abby So my idea was with the sisturn having more points into that branch that allowed you to put in different flowers across the world to get different effects on both Abby and the sisturn structure
could have it where there is a choice of 6  and need 3 to access the big ones.  I think thats a better way to  handle skill trees.  it allows players to choose what they like without needing to just waste points on filler. but the filler isn't useless it allows for everything to get its use by the players choice.  Cause players value different things. 
So sisturn gains 3 more skill points that allow for different plants to be put into the sisturn
Petal power Can use evil petal lightbulb foliage.
Farm power able to use the flowers from farming forgetmelots tillweed firenettles
Exotics  Cactus flower Succulents Blossom

Fill in all 4 slots with the same to get a power
Forget me lots. Sisturn has an increased sanity aura (75 PM) and gives abigail a Sanity aura (6.6)
Firenettles Sisturn provides a small amount of heat.  Abby becomes a mini heat source.
Tillweed. Sisturn provides a .5 hp regen every 30 seconds in its radius. Boosts abbys base regen by 1
Bulbs - Sisturn and abigail glow brighter
Succulent - Sisturn provides small Umbralla effect around it and gives abigail a 300hp boost
Ferns - Sisturn will grow some random shrooms around itself and gives abigail flat 10 dmg 
Lunar - Sisturn ocasionally will spawn a moon moth. Changes abigails attack to pure planar
Evil - Sisturn has a massively decreased sanity aura (-75 PM) and gives abigail Dusk Damage During Day
Cactus flower - Sisturn  Provides a cooling effect Gives abigail bramble thorns effect. 

I feel like people now wanted more of a abby that provides more utility outside of combat and this would do that. And especially since it would cost 5 points to access all of this i think it can be warranted.

[Well-met]

3 hours ago, DVGMedia said:

I personally  think skill trees need a bit more to them.  Like make choices actually meaningful.  Most trees have kind of been set as a here is the most optimal way to play  And That is kind of frustrating.  There are slight deviations here and there but its just not enough.  i feel like each tree should be looked at now that players had time to play with them. 

Theres way too many filler options on alot of trees that don't share the same weight as the points that are spent on them and are only really there to boost the later skills in that branch.
and while utility varies on how the player plays the skill trees should feel like its player made Suited for what the player of that character does.  Its kind of why people liked walters tree so much because alot of his things are just quadrants  you can get any perks in that quadrent without needing specific ones to unlock a better perk.  

Im a wendy main and so i wanted to have more ways to modify abby So my idea was with the sisturn having more points into that branch that allowed you to put in different flowers across the world to get different effects on both Abby and the sisturn structure
could have it where there is a choice of 6  and need 3 to access the big ones.  I think thats a better way to  handle skill trees.  it allows players to choose what they like without needing to just waste points on filler. but the filler isn't useless it allows for everything to get its use by the players choice.  Cause players value different things. 
So sisturn gains 3 more skill points that allow for different plants to be put into the sisturn
Petal power Can use evil petal lightbulb foliage.
Farm power able to use the flowers from farming forgetmelots tillweed firenettles
Exotics  Cactus flower Succulents Blossom

Fill in all 4 slots with the same to get a power
Forget me lots. Sisturn has an increased sanity aura (75 PM) and gives abigail a Sanity aura (6.6)
Firenettles Sisturn provides a small amount of heat.  Abby becomes a mini heat source.
Tillweed. Sisturn provides a .5 hp regen every 30 seconds in its radius. Boosts abbys base regen by 1
Bulbs - Sisturn and abigail glow brighter
Succulent - Sisturn provides small Umbralla effect around it and gives abigail a 300hp boost
Ferns - Sisturn will grow some random shrooms around itself and gives abigail flat 10 dmg 
Lunar - Sisturn ocasionally will spawn a moon moth. Changes abigails attack to pure planar
Evil - Sisturn has a massively decreased sanity aura (-75 PM) and gives abigail Dusk Damage During Day
Cactus flower - Sisturn  Provides a cooling effect Gives abigail bramble thorns effect. 

I feel like people now wanted more of a abby that provides more utility outside of combat and this would do that. And especially since it would cost 5 points to access all of this i think it can be warranted.

yes please another total wendy rework

[Naifxoxo]

On 3/7/2026 at 1:24 PM, gaymime said:

anyone around for the wendy debacle can understand why it is not prudent for klei to go back over existing skilltress post-beta. if they go back to alter a thing then they have opened themselves up to two things; first people saying "you fixed x why arent you fixing y?" and "you improved this thing for character x but still havent improved that thing for character y. you are being unfair!" klei would get mired down in dozens of small worthless updates for one or two characters that take away from progress elsewhere and not actually satisfy most players

they r still being unfair when ignoring so, its way worse when ur not even trying , thats not an excuse 

[Echsrick]

6 hours ago, Naifxoxo said:

they r still being unfair when ignoring so, its way worse when ur not even trying , thats not an excuse 

i dont know i was trying and being very much critical...dit i and other people that were complaining about the knapsack been given something better? no, knapsack still realy just a meme weapon if anything else

[Crimson Hollow]

not every skill tree is out yet and until then it cant be easy to tell where each tree stands 

[Nikki Darks]

22 minutes ago, Crimson Hollow said:

not every skill tree is out yet and until then it cant be easy to tell where each tree stands 

I mean, some trees are kinda just on the better/worse ends of the spectrum. Willow's is just brainless levels of strong (and I love it) and Wolfgang's is supposedly doo doo bad (from what I've heard on the forums).