FMTS Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 (English is not my native language, so please forgive me if I use improper words or expressions.) Could you please optimize Maxwell’s abilities? For example, make shadow workers add the items they gather directly to the player’s inventory upon collection. Right now, if the player isn’t nearby, they’ll just stand around idly after fully harvesting grass from the base, and the player has to walk over to pick up the items. It gets even worse with multiple types of items—they only pick up one kind and ignore everything else until the player comes back. I end up having to stand nearby and wait for them to finish harvesting, or gather alongside them. What I really want is to summon temporary shadow workers and then free up time to do other things, like cooking or crafting. Also, could you add back the old shadow minions from previous versions with some improvements? They should follow you permanently and switch between working mode and combat mode based on the tool you’re holding. I really love this design. Even if they cost more sanity cap than temporary shadow workers and shadow fighters—like a 50 maximum sanity reduction—it would still be great. Additionally, the shadow fighters tend to chase targets extremely far away during combat. For example, when fighting the Spring Moose/Goose boss, after being summoned, they often chase after Moslings for great distances, making them nearly useless in regular boss fights. I also have no way to recall them. Perhaps a feature could be added to recall all temporary shadow fighters or shadow workers with a single button press—otherwise, it feels far too passive. These three optimizations are really important and could also be added to Maxwell’s skill tree. 1 Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/169899-please-optimize-maxwell%E2%80%99s-abilities/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jakepeng99 Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 Nah. They already do everything for you and are what makes Maxwell the strongest character. They don’t need any “quality of life”. Next people will ask for them to give back rubs for sanity. 1 1 1 Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/169899-please-optimize-maxwell%E2%80%99s-abilities/#findComment-1852506 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DegenerateFurry Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 Dude, Maxwell's already too good. Hop on a beefalo and he has literally no downside, or wear a football helmet or logsuit to make his downside 80% less impactful. His minions being limited to a fixed area (which, by the way, is actually movable - if you summon them on a boat, their anchor point goes with the boat) is fine. Them having a single inventory slot with which to pick up items is also a balance thing, it means your multitasking capability has at least some limit and you have to stick around them if you want them to do all the work for you. Or, hey, maybe Maxwell could get off his lazy butt and pick up what his minions aren't going after? It sounds like what you want is to dumb down Maxwell so that you don't have to think about servant placement or what to summon and when. That'd take away a considerable amount of skill expression and fun from the character. The only suggestion I like here is the one to let us recall shadow duelists since that does the opposite of the rest of what you said: it gives Maxwell something more active to do and makes his gameplay more engaging. 2 Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/169899-please-optimize-maxwell%E2%80%99s-abilities/#findComment-1852507 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gashzer Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 3 hours ago, DegenerateFurry said: Dude, Maxwell's already too good. Hop on a beefalo and he has literally no downside, or wear a football helmet or logsuit to make his downside 80% less impactful. His minions being limited to a fixed area (which, by the way, is actually movable - if you summon them on a boat, their anchor point goes with the boat) is fine. Them having a single inventory slot with which to pick up items is also a balance thing, it means your multitasking capability has at least some limit and you have to stick around them if you want them to do all the work for you. Or, hey, maybe Maxwell could get off his lazy butt and pick up what his minions aren't going after? It sounds like what you want is to dumb down Maxwell so that you don't have to think about servant placement or what to summon and when. That'd take away a considerable amount of skill expression and fun from the character. The only suggestion I like here is the one to let us recall shadow duelists since that does the opposite of the rest of what you said: it gives Maxwell something more active to do and makes his gameplay more engaging. Maxwell having only 75hp is a pretty noticable downside. Armour doesnt remove this downside either. Wilson has double the health as maxwell so does that mean that logsuits are twice as strong for wilson compared to maxwell?? Pretty much what you are saying that a wilson wearing a logsuit is the same as maxwell wearing a thulecite suit? Jeez maxwell doesnt sound that good now tbh.... "Just tame a beefalo" ah yes just let me do the most involved, longest and annoying mechanic to do in DST to cover his downside... so simple... lol 1 Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/169899-please-optimize-maxwell%E2%80%99s-abilities/#findComment-1852516 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jakepeng99 Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 1 hour ago, Gashzer said: Just tame a beefalo" ah yes just let me do the most involved, longest and annoying mechanic to do in DST to cover his downside... so simple... lol People act like beefalo are only useful after fully taming them. 5 Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/169899-please-optimize-maxwell%E2%80%99s-abilities/#findComment-1852522 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gashzer Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 26 minutes ago, Jakepeng99 said: People act like beefalo are only useful after fully taming them. Fully taming one removes the need to feed it every time you want to remount beefalo. Unless you are dumb enough to tame an ornery beefalo. Otherwise the taming process is tedious, getting bucked is a mega downside its worse than warly's downside and thats saying something. 1 Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/169899-please-optimize-maxwell%E2%80%99s-abilities/#findComment-1852526 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DegenerateFurry Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 3 hours ago, Gashzer said: Fully taming one removes the need to feed it every time you want to remount beefalo. Unless you are dumb enough to tame an ornery beefalo. Otherwise the taming process is tedious, getting bucked is a mega downside its worse than warly's downside and thats saying something. Except the Walter skill tree update made it so that you don't ever have to get bucked, you can just shove a lightbulb/twig/grass/etc down the stinkbeast's gob to reset the buck timer periodically. This also lets you tame them a lot faster since you can ride them almost constantly (except if you need to dismount for something). Beefalo are more useful pre-full taming now than ever. Additionally, Maxwell post-Fuelweaver is hugely incentivized to become a beef rider if he's not already since the shadow thurible buffs his minions the most out of any hand-slot item and it does no damage by itself. Also, ornery beefalo is worth the extra damage output if you use them for combat a lot, it's pudgy that's the one nobody should ever go for. Clicking it with a grass before you mount it takes less than an additional second. 4 hours ago, Gashzer said: Maxwell having only 75hp is a pretty noticable downside. It's noticeable, sure, but it doesn't offset him being the best at resource-gathering and among the best at combat. What I was saying is that it's only really noticeable for inexperienced players who fight things without armor on, because at the end of the day, being able to tank five hits in a row from Deerclops while wearing only a logsuit and being able to take ten both allow you to eat a pierogi halfway through and reset that counter. The fact is that being able to easily heal and benefiting from armor means having lower health is only impactful in situations where you're unarmored or can't heal, which experienced players will reliably avoid. 4 hours ago, Gashzer said: Armour doesnt remove this downside either. Wilson has double the health as maxwell so does that mean that logsuits are twice as strong for wilson compared to maxwell?? Pretty much what you are saying that a wilson wearing a logsuit is the same as maxwell wearing a thulecite suit? Jeez maxwell doesnt sound that good now tbh.... Except Maxwell can wear nightmare armor and wield a dark sword without any sanity drain from either, and doing so makes his shadow duelists considerably stronger, so Maxwell is extremely incentivized to wear some of the best armor in the game whenever he's fighting any actual threat, even when he's riding a beefalo. To be clear, Maxwell being overpowered isn't just because his downside doesn't matter enough, it's because he's just too good at too many things. Crowd control? Some of the best in the game. He can cage groups of enemies so they can't chase or escape, and anything other than a boss can be stunned for a lengthy amount of time with his shadow sneak. Dude can stop Dragonfly from even having a lavae phase if he's good enough with cage management. Work? Gives honey crystals beaver skill tree Woodie a run for his money at chopping and beats him on gathering up all the wood from it. Inventory? He has a science machine-tier headgear item that gives him a ton of extra storage and also buffs his duelists' DPS. Sailing? Literally the king of it. His shadow servants clear out sea stacks, mine salt pillars, and grab items on the water for him without him having to even get his boat nearly as close as any other character would. Pirate raid? Just drop a shadow sneak on their boat, now they can't row it and you can escape. Rockjaw? Cage it, melt it with 5-6 duelists. Combat? DPS with full equipment is comparable to Wolfgang, just a little lower. He also has insane levels of combat utility with his cage and shadow sneak to offset losing the pure damage contest there, though. Sanity management? One of his more interesting sides, since he arguably wants to be insane as often as possible (especially before he has a stockpile of fuel), but can also stay sane quite easily. It's arguable that his sanity over time is actually a negative for him due to his constant lust for nightmare fuel, but then again, green caps are cheap. And to top it all off, you know Wickerbottom, that character who makes really strong books that let her control the lunar cycle and weather, summon bees and tentacles to help in combat/make Bee Queen farms, and instantly grow food and plants? Yeah, he can do all that too if she's ever made her books and bookcase in a world. Oh, and that also gives him an easy insanity source. Maxwell steals Wickerbottom's main perks while being able to sleep. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/169899-please-optimize-maxwell%E2%80%99s-abilities/#findComment-1852536 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jakepeng99 Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 17 hours ago, Gashzer said: Fully taming one removes the need to feed it every time you want to remount beefalo. Unless you are dumb enough to tame an ornery beefalo. Otherwise the taming process is tedious, getting bucked is a mega downside its worse than warly's downside and thats saying something. If you still needed to feed beefalo after fully taming them it would still be worth it. Also calling ornery beefalo bad? Also buck timer barely exists since now feeding them while riding resets it. You just need an 11% tamed beefalo and it’s good enough Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/169899-please-optimize-maxwell%E2%80%99s-abilities/#findComment-1852587 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bumber64 Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 (edited) 20 hours ago, Gashzer said: Maxwell having only 75hp is a pretty noticable downside. Armour doesnt remove this downside either. Wilson has double the health as maxwell so does that mean that logsuits are twice as strong for wilson compared to maxwell?? Pretty much what you are saying that a wilson wearing a logsuit is the same as maxwell wearing a thulecite suit? Jeez maxwell doesnt sound that good now tbh.... Maxwell heals just as well as Wilson, which means logsuit is actually just using up more healing items on either. The difference is that Maxwell has abilities to avoid direct combat, while Wilson can toss a torch if he invests enough skill points. Edited February 26 by Bumber64 3 Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/169899-please-optimize-maxwell%E2%80%99s-abilities/#findComment-1852590 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheggf Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 They should do the exact opposite and nerf Maxwell. He used to be so fun before he made the game play itself. 1 Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/169899-please-optimize-maxwell%E2%80%99s-abilities/#findComment-1852605 Share on other sites More sharing options...
YouKnowWho142 Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 (edited) 2 hours ago, Cheggf said: They should do the exact opposite and nerf Maxwell. He used to be so fun before he made the game play itself. I just want to point out this is far too hyperbolic, he was NOT fun in his previous iteration. At best he was slightly better at harvesting specifically distanced rocks, but literally doing anything as him felt awful with his clunky puppets and lack of depth. Now, even if he’s a little too strong, it feels like I’m playing a proper puppet master and former king, not just a good resource harvester. Edited February 26 by YouKnowWho142 4 1 Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/169899-please-optimize-maxwell%E2%80%99s-abilities/#findComment-1852620 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DegenerateFurry Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 (edited) 2 hours ago, Cheggf said: They should do the exact opposite and nerf Maxwell. He used to be so fun before he made the game play itself. I don't disagree that he could use some kind of nerf, but they absolutely should not revert him. I was around for the era when he spawned in with a dark sword and night armor, I think you have rose-tinted glasses. YouKnowWho142 said it well: before he didn't have much depth and didn't feel good to play. The subject of how to nerf Maxwell is a tricky one, because he actually does have really fun gameplay right now with more options for how to handle situations than any other character, and I don't want to see that or his combat effectiveness change. I'd just want his downside to actually apply more, and I think the way to do that is to make his healing less effective. The boring way would be just making his healing reduced from all sources, like halving stat values, but all that does is double the amount of pierogis you need to make. More interesting option: Maxwell is such a stuck-up and dapper guy that he refuses to eat in as hurried and messy a manner as his fellow survivors, so all his eating animations have doubled length. That means healing is inherently harder to find opportunities for in fights and you're more likely to be interrupted. Edited February 26 by DegenerateFurry 2 Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/169899-please-optimize-maxwell%E2%80%99s-abilities/#findComment-1852621 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrapeVruit Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 38 minutes ago, DegenerateFurry said: More interesting option: Maxwell is such a stuck-up and dapper guy that he refuses to eat in as hurried and messy a manner as his fellow survivors, so all his eating animations have doubled length. That means healing is inherently harder to find opportunities for in fights and you're more likely to be interrupted. Couldn't you just bypass this with healing salves and honey poultice? They're not as effective as healing food but are still solid, especially for characters with a low hp pool. Even then, you could also make the bat bat to heal in the midst of combat instead of finding a safe place to eat. It even restores as much as eating 13 pierogies. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/169899-please-optimize-maxwell%E2%80%99s-abilities/#findComment-1852625 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DegenerateFurry Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 (edited) 25 minutes ago, GrapeVruit said: Couldn't you just bypass this with healing salves and honey poultice? They're not as effective as healing food but are still solid, especially for characters with a low hp pool. Even then, you could also make the bat bat to heal in the midst of combat instead of finding a safe place to eat. It even restores as much as eating 13 pierogies. You could, yes, but those are a lot less convenient as options than cramming pierogis down your gullet. Bat bats are expensive if you don't luck into getting one from the ruins. I don't think it's bypassing the nerf if you have to go out of your way to work around it? That's just a good implementation of a downside. Of course, the nerf only matters if you're taking damage, which isn't a problem for beefalo Maxwell, but eh, beefalo's gonna beef. Edited February 26 by DegenerateFurry Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/169899-please-optimize-maxwell%E2%80%99s-abilities/#findComment-1852628 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrapeVruit Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 25 minutes ago, DegenerateFurry said: You could, yes, but those are a lot less convenient as options than cramming pierogis down your gullet. Bat bats are expensive if you don't luck into getting one from the ruins. I don't think it's bypassing the nerf if you have to go out of your way to work around it? That's just a good implementation of a downside. Of course, the nerf only matters if you're taking damage, which isn't a problem for beefalo Maxwell, but eh, beefalo's gonna beef. But aren't you going out of your way to tame a beefalo in order to deal with his low health? While a tamed beefalo is really great for him, couldn't you also say it's way less convenient to babysit a cow for 20 days than just having strong armor and healing? The Bat Bat's also not that difficult to make. Bat's drop wings pretty frequently, living logs can be acquired easily by killing mush gnomes, and with the recent clockwork changes, you can farm bishops for purple gems every full moon. (Okay, maybe that one's not the best example, but you get what I mean) Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/169899-please-optimize-maxwell%E2%80%99s-abilities/#findComment-1852631 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheggf Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 3 hours ago, DegenerateFurry said: I don't disagree that he could use some kind of nerf, but they absolutely should not revert him. I was around for the era when he spawned in with a dark sword and night armor, I think you have rose-tinted glasses. YouKnowWho142 said it well: before he didn't have much depth and didn't feel good to play. The subject of how to nerf Maxwell is a tricky one, because he actually does have really fun gameplay right now with more options for how to handle situations than any other character, and I don't want to see that or his combat effectiveness change. I'd just want his downside to actually apply more, and I think the way to do that is to make his healing less effective. The boring way would be just making his healing reduced from all sources, like halving stat values, but all that does is double the amount of pierogis you need to make. More interesting option: Maxwell is such a stuck-up and dapper guy that he refuses to eat in as hurried and messy a manner as his fellow survivors, so all his eating animations have doubled length. That means healing is inherently harder to find opportunities for in fights and you're more likely to be interrupted. Maxwell was my single most played character before his rework and you being bad at him isn't going to change my mind. Modern Maxwell is the one who has no depth. You do not control your minions, you do not think about when to create them or when to dispel them, you simply spam the book at everything and the book plays the game for you. 1 Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/169899-please-optimize-maxwell%E2%80%99s-abilities/#findComment-1852637 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DegenerateFurry Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 1 hour ago, GrapeVruit said: But aren't you going out of your way to tame a beefalo in order to deal with his low health? While a tamed beefalo is really great for him, couldn't you also say it's way less convenient to babysit a cow for 20 days than just having strong armor and healing? The Bat Bat's also not that difficult to make. Bat's drop wings pretty frequently, living logs can be acquired easily by killing mush gnomes, and with the recent clockwork changes, you can farm bishops for purple gems every full moon. (Okay, maybe that one's not the best example, but you get what I mean) All of those are fair points and are why I don't think beefalo needs a nerf. It's a high-risk (losing the beefalo means starting over), high-time investment, high-reward playstyle. 11 minutes ago, Cheggf said: Maxwell was my single most played character before his rework and you being bad at him isn't going to change my mind. I never said he was hard, I said he was unfun and boring. Big difference. 11 minutes ago, Cheggf said: Modern Maxwell is the one who has no depth. You do not control your minions, you do not think about when to create them or when to dispel them, you simply spam the book at everything and the book plays the game for you. Lol, lmao even. You have to think about when to use six minions or five, you need to use sanity-restoring food if you want to have five duelists up and use the cage/shadow sneak in combat or risk fighting two terrorbeaks plus a boss, precise servant placement lets you mine stuff better, and you can strategically go out of your way to get stuff that empowers your duelists early (killing Wrathful Rabbit King with nothing but the book and a grass suit to get his cudgel on day 1 comes to mind). Or there's old Maxwell, who just... summons his goons and then they follow him around and sort of do stuff. Yeah, real big brain plays involved there. 1 Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/169899-please-optimize-maxwell%E2%80%99s-abilities/#findComment-1852639 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheggf Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 8 minutes ago, DegenerateFurry said: All of those are fair points and are why I don't think beefalo needs a nerf. It's a high-risk (losing the beefalo means starting over), high-time investment, high-reward playstyle. I never said he was hard, I said he was unfun and boring. Big difference. Lol, lmao even. You have to think about when to use six minions or five, you need to use sanity-restoring food if you want to have five duelists up and use the cage/shadow sneak in combat or risk fighting two terrorbeaks plus a boss, precise servant placement lets you mine stuff better, and you can strategically go out of your way to get stuff that empowers your duelists early (killing Wrathful Rabbit King with nothing but the book and a grass suit to get his cudgel on day 1 comes to mind). Or there's old Maxwell, who just... summons his goons and then they follow him around and sort of do stuff. Yeah, real big brain plays involved there. See what I mean about you being bad at Maxwell? 1 1 1 Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/169899-please-optimize-maxwell%E2%80%99s-abilities/#findComment-1852640 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DegenerateFurry Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Cheggf said: See what I mean about you being bad at Maxwell? No, I don't, because you're vagueposting and I'm going largely off of memories from 2013. If you're trying to make a point, you'll need to be less opaque about it. I played Maxwell a few times in original Don't Starve before his rework years later on in DST and thought him too boring to be worth my time prior to it. It's also not the easiest to even find videos of him pre-rework, but I did find a few and they confirmed what I remembered: you just summon shadow puppets and they follow you around and do stuff, but jankily and with poor response times. Edited February 26 by DegenerateFurry 2 Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/169899-please-optimize-maxwell%E2%80%99s-abilities/#findComment-1852641 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jakepeng99 Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 (edited) 4 hours ago, YouKnowWho142 said: I just want to point out this is far too hyperbolic, he was NOT fun in his previous iteration. At best he was slightly better at harvesting specifically distanced rocks, but literally doing anything as him felt awful with his clunky puppets and lack of depth. Now, even if he’s a little too strong, it feels like I’m playing a proper puppet master and former king, not just a good resource harvester. Id argue before he was the worst character in the game. Both boring and incredibly weak since his downsides had no reason to use. He plays so akwardly. Hes the "best" at resource gathering but like, being a little faster than woodie and stuff means nothing and is over valued. Also he sucks with treeguards. Back then id say id rather play Wes because i find him so boring. The people saying he was really good just because hes the fastest at resource gathering is sorta cuckoo. His only niche is early game resource gathering since he can do it on the move. But only specifically rocks since woodie exists... weak character thats super outclassed by Woodie and Wurt at the time. Heck, pigmen are underrated. Edited February 26 by Jakepeng99 3 Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/169899-please-optimize-maxwell%E2%80%99s-abilities/#findComment-1852642 Share on other sites More sharing options...
YouKnowWho142 Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 (edited) 2 hours ago, Cheggf said: Maxwell was my single most played character before his rework and you being bad at him isn't going to change my mind. Modern Maxwell is the one who has no depth. You do not control your minions, you do not think about when to create them or when to dispel them, you simply spam the book at everything and the book plays the game for you. I really don’t get this. How is modern Maxwell less skillful than the set and forget playstyle of old Maxwell? Modern Maxwell encourages you to seek shadow gear, your duelists scale with how much you fight so you have to determine how involved you wanna get to maximize damage, he has snares and prisons he can use when necessary. Pre rework Maxwell had an intense resource cost for a weak summon that couldn’t avoid damage and died instantly, he didn’t feel like his character at all. I don’t know what you mean about more control over pre Maxwell since all they had was clunky ai, and there were definitely times now where unsummoning them is vital to win a battle. I’m just glad I don’t need to keep a ton of random tools and spears in my inventory to respawn them. I have no idea what version of Maxwell you played before since it really doesn’t look like you played the same one everyone else did. And no, being rude to people you disagree with by calling them bad at the game doesn’t make your point any stronger. You’re being reductive, disrespectful, and providing discussion that helps no one. If you have to stoop so low as to lash out at others you need to move on. Edited February 27 by YouKnowWho142 6 1 Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/169899-please-optimize-maxwell%E2%80%99s-abilities/#findComment-1852647 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jakepeng99 Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 Modern Maxwell is really fun and his a lot of skill even if I want him nerfed. Hes basically Wurt but fun. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/169899-please-optimize-maxwell%E2%80%99s-abilities/#findComment-1852666 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZeRoboButler Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 On 2/25/2026 at 8:16 AM, Gashzer said: Unless you are dumb enough to tame an ornery beefalo. Otherwise the taming process is tedious, getting bucked is a mega downside its worse than warly's downside and thats saying something. That is a heck of a take, although that does tell us how you feel about beefalo, I have to wonder how many other players actually tame beef. These days it's very very easy, especially if you play warly (who's downside needs work but that's been discussed already) being on the move with a crock pot means in the down time I can use some filler to make easy steamed twigs and leave them for a sec while I do other things. I do wonder if there is still a stigma about how irritating some of the process can be, for one thing, should you accidently hit your beefalo, so much of the taming is just undone. you could end up resetting to zero early on and that is not time your getting back. 2 Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/169899-please-optimize-maxwell%E2%80%99s-abilities/#findComment-1852721 Share on other sites More sharing options...
FMTS Posted February 28 Author Share Posted February 28 On 2/27/2026 at 3:09 AM, DegenerateFurry said: The subject of how to nerf Maxwell is a tricky one, because he actually does have really fun gameplay right now with more options for how to handle situations than any other character, and I don't want to see that or his combat effectiveness change. I'd just want his downside to actually apply more, and I think the way to do that is to make his healing less effective. The boring way would be just making his healing reduced from all sources, like halving stat values, but all that does is double the amount of pierogis you need to make. More interesting option: Maxwell is such a stuck-up and dapper guy that he refuses to eat in as hurried and messy a manner as his fellow survivors, so all his eating animations have doubled length. That means healing is inherently harder to find opportunities for in fights and you're more likely to be interrupted. I agree with giving Maxwell some nerfs for balance or other appropriate buffs. For example, we could limit Maxwell’s ways to restore sanity. He should not be able to gain sanity from any food, only by sleeping or other methods. This way, he would have to consider the risks of low sanity when using books in combat, while his strong passive sanity regeneration would keep this downside from being too punishing. (This feels like design centered around his sanity, which I think is excellent. It could add many unique mechanics and gameplay elements, making sanity Maxwell’s most important resource to manage, instead of being able to spend it recklessly because of his high regeneration.) Alternatively, Maxwell could be unable to eat all or some raw food unless he is on the verge of starving. This would also fit the dignity of the Shadow King. However, I cannot agree with any proposal to nerf Maxwell’s healing capabilities. Given Maxwell’s already low health cap, his survivability would become extremely challenging if his healing effectiveness is not reliably maintained. Additionally, healing items are very scarce in the early game, making consistent healing even more critical for him. Whether the change targets his healing effectiveness or his healing speed, I believe this would be an overly extreme adjustment that would severely impact his playability and make him far too difficult to survive with. I hope these ideas can also provide some inspiration for his future skill tree. I have always loved playing Maxwell, whether it was the old permanent shadow minions that followed you constantly, the current temporary shadow workers, or the powerful area control ability he has now. But I truly believe some optimizations are really necessary, and these changes won’t affect game balance too much. Especially auto-pickup for gathered items straight into the inventory, and a one-click way to dismiss all of his shadow puppets. I think these small changes would make the character feel much better to play. It would also be great if the updates could keep some of the feel of the old Maxwell at the same time. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/169899-please-optimize-maxwell%E2%80%99s-abilities/#findComment-1852742 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DegenerateFurry Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 (edited) 5 hours ago, FMTS said: I agree with giving Maxwell some nerfs for balance or other appropriate buffs. For example, we could limit Maxwell’s ways to restore sanity. He should not be able to gain sanity from any food, only by sleeping or other methods. This way, he would have to consider the risks of low sanity when using books in combat, while his strong passive sanity regeneration would keep this downside from being too punishing. (This feels like design centered around his sanity, which I think is excellent. It could add many unique mechanics and gameplay elements, making sanity Maxwell’s most important resource to manage, instead of being able to spend it recklessly because of his high regeneration.) hadow puppets. I think these small changes would make the character feel much better to play. It would also be great if the updates could keep some of the feel of the old Maxwell at the same time. This'd actually be a buff for Maxwell, it means it's easier for him to maintain low sanity for a constant source of Nightmare Fuel. The only times where you want it to not be low as Maxwell are when you have 40 Nightmare Fuel or more, which won't be very often if you're using his abilities a lot, and if you're not using his abilities a lot, his sanity regen will keep your sanity fine. If you need to be sane during combat, that's what cooked green caps and cactus are for. 5 hours ago, FMTS said: Alternatively, Maxwell could be unable to eat all or some raw food unless he is on the verge of starving. This would also fit the dignity of the Shadow King. This would be a better way to nerf him, especially since it means mushrooms are off-limits. No easy healing and insanity via blue caps, no easy insanity via green caps, no easy insanity by only eating raw meat. It would, however, just make him less fun to play, since making it more inconvenient to farm nightmare fuel doesn't really increase the risk level of playing him. 5 hours ago, FMTS said: However, I cannot agree with any proposal to nerf Maxwell’s healing capabilities. Given Maxwell’s already low health cap, his survivability would become extremely challenging if his healing effectiveness is not reliably maintained. Additionally, healing items are very scarce in the early game, making consistent healing even more critical for him. Whether the change targets his healing effectiveness or his healing speed, I believe this would be an overly extreme adjustment that would severely impact his playability and make him far too difficult to survive with. Making him harder to survive as is the point of making it harder for him to heal, yes. He is an exceptionally powerful and versatile character and his downside has minimal impact as soon as you put on a logsuit. Healing is fairly easy to get throughout the game because of blue mushrooms and crock pot dishes like trail mix (and even pierogies are easy to make early on). I don't think it'd make him too hard to play, it'd just make it so you actually have to play more carefully instead of kiting or even tanking and cramming healing foods exactly the same way you normally would. Edited March 1 by DegenerateFurry Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/169899-please-optimize-maxwell%E2%80%99s-abilities/#findComment-1852767 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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