i hate the rabbit king

[Bumber64]

3 hours ago, Cruvimaster said:

I think this mob is a good addition, punishing the game for its bad actions. Bunny Puff is an easily obtained resource after opening the rifts, as you just need to use Deadly Brightshade to exterminate all the Bunnymen. As for Krampus as a way to punish players, that mob is just a joke.

...why do you want bunny puff after rifts?

I'd be more inclined to think you weren't trolling if you said after obtaining starcaller staff, but it really isn't about bunnymen (other than the two survivors that kill them in self-defense).

DS: Trap rabbits and hang their meat on drying racks for non-perishable food.
Old DST: Trap rabbits and hang their meat on drying racks; harvest before they rot.
New DST: Don't Hunt Rabbits Together (collective blame edition).

Edited February 12 by Bumber64

[Cruvimaster]

18 minutes ago, Bumber64 said:

...why do you want bunny puff after rifts?

The question is, why do you want such an absurd amount of this resource early in the game, and why don't you just put insane amounts into world creation and go clear out the caves?

I'm sure you bought tickets for the wrong movie. If you want peace and quiet without challenges, switch to Stardew Valley or Roots of Pacha.

[Cruvimaster]

I just wanted to understand when there are topics here asking the devs to add survival elements to the game. Maintaining the character's stats (health/sanity/hunger) is extremely easy. Besides, Bunnyman has always been a broken source for getting meat in a "survival game".

Not everything in DST was made to please the player; on the contrary, there are creatures that are there to take the player out of their comfort zone. It's clearly intentional on the part of the developers.

[Echsrick]

same, its a stupid addition, litteraly no one likes him, if the boss was simple like treeguard sure maybe...but it keeps on enemy spamming and he respawns them so quickly even if you kill 1 of his way too tanky body guards....AND he just cheats and teleports to you somehow allways wich makes no sense.....AND WHY IS THERE NO WORLD SETTING FOR HIM?!?

[Ridley]

1 hour ago, Cruvimaster said:

I just wanted to understand when there are topics here asking the devs to add survival elements to the game. Maintaining the character's stats (health/sanity/hunger) is extremely easy. Besides, Bunnyman has always been a broken source for getting meat in a "survival game".

Not everything in DST was made to please the player; on the contrary, there are creatures that are there to take the player out of their comfort zone. It's clearly intentional on the part of the developers.

It is weird though that I can kill an entire Bunnyman village with essentially one carrot and without accruing naughty points. Accidentally approaching the rabbit king with meat also seems like an extreme punishment and it comes without any indication of what set him off.

[DegenerateFurry]

6 hours ago, Cruvimaster said:

I think this mob is a good addition, punishing the game for its bad actions. Bunny Puff is an easily obtained resource after opening the rifts, as you just need to use Deadly Brightshade to exterminate all the Bunnymen. As for Krampus as a way to punish players, that mob is just a joke.

Huh, I was joking earlier when I said that the usual suspects would show up to defend Rabbit King. You really are completely incapable of criticizing anything in this game for being too punishing/difficult or outright poorly-designed, aren't you? 

Edited February 12 by DegenerateFurry

[gaymime]

1 hour ago, DegenerateFurry said:

Huh, I was joking earlier when I said that the usual suspects would show up to defend Rabbit King. You really are completely incapable of criticizing anything in this game for being too punishing/difficult or outright poorly-designed, aren't you? 

dude, please don't let your personal frustrations put you in a position where you are biting people for the sake of self-soothing. if you are in disagreement with what they are saying that is fine but reducing their entire self down to an untrue statement to remove them from the conversation is super not cool

[Velvy]

3 hours ago, Cruvimaster said:

Not everything in DST was made to please the player; on the contrary, there are creatures that are there to take the player out of their comfort zone. It's clearly intentional on the part of the developers.

theres a difference between not pleasing the players and actively punishing new players for trying to engage with the games intended mechanics. as long as the rabbit meter is near max and a new player kills one they'll get hunted down for seemingly no reason. rabbits themselves are already a pretty bad food source and usually considered noob traps, idk why we need to punish new players even more

Edited February 12 by Velvy

[YouKnowWho142]

4 hours ago, Cruvimaster said:

I just wanted to understand when there are topics here asking the devs to add survival elements to the game. Maintaining the character's stats (health/sanity/hunger) is extremely easy. Besides, Bunnyman has always been a broken source for getting meat in a "survival game".

Not everything in DST was made to please the player; on the contrary, there are creatures that are there to take the player out of their comfort zone. It's clearly intentional on the part of the developers.

it isn't an added survival element, it's artificial difficulty and inconvenience for the sake of it. A good example of survival challenges are Treeguards and Deerclops. Treeguards are able to be soothed with pinecones but is also a fairly learnable fight that drops a key mid to late game resource, it's a great introduction to kiting and allows players to understand a basis of how real bosses function. Deerclops is the final challenge of Winter for new players and is also fairly reasonable and manageable, with warning signs and a predictable arrival. Krampus is even a good example, who has audio warnings and has a method in which it can be reasonably avoided.

The Rabbit King often comes out of nowhere, with no warnings or understanding to prepare. It is unrelentless and will not drop aggro under any circumstances. It is needlessly punishing to new players who will likely just die, and as a fight it is time consuming and tedious even to veteran players. Veteran players will at least know they can avoid it via the caves or if i recall boats, but this is a useless knowledge check that adds tedium. It gives the impression that it exists solely to cause new players trouble for trying to interact with the basic mechanics of the game that the game inherently pushes them towards with no way to prepare or counter it, and that isn't okay.

Also, again, bunnymen are so nerfed that they are basically almost never worth farming anymore unless you're super late game (37% chance for each of their drops, they aren't guaranteed to drop any of them). By that argument, every werepig or varg farm needs their own wrathful pig king or varg king equivalent to punish players from getting meat in this way. If you know how to despawn the Rabbit King it is not going to stop the effectiveness of these farms, it is just going to add a useless and boring extra step. It doesn't add to any "survival" element, it just makes things more tedious and annoying for experienced players while being a death sentence for new players over which they have zero control over.

Edited February 12 by YouKnowWho142

[Cruvimaster]

Since Wigfrid can't get a real nerf, I won't comment any further on that rabbit. Good luck to whoever stays in this thread.

[Frosty_Mentos]

Sometimes the game just says 'today you won't live'

[DegenerateFurry]

3 hours ago, gaymime said:

dude, please don't let your personal frustrations put you in a position where you are biting people for the sake of self-soothing. if you are in disagreement with what they are saying that is fine but reducing their entire self down to an untrue statement to remove them from the conversation is super not cool

Oh, come now, he's clearly just here to troll. It's not any different than the "erm ackshyually Fuelweaver was already nerfed because post-lunar rifts equipment is good against him" thread title, it's bait. There's not two sides to this one.

 Wrathful Rabbit King is just straight-up bad game design. There's not even some dubious "reason" for it to be the way it is like how some people argue that Fuelweaver being a 'final boss'-type enemy makes its out-of-place difficulty acceptable, Wrathful Rabbit King literally exists to make rabbits useless as a food source for a whole server and to punish new players specifically. 

And, like, rabbits didn't need a nerf? They've always been a mediocre-at-best food source. Bunnymen haven't been a good food source for a long while, either. A single visit to Frog Hell or one frog rain in spring will get you way, way, way more hunger value than farming enough rabbits to summon the Rabbit King. 

The system by which you aggro the Wrathful Rabbit King is both ambiguous (literally has a high degree of randomness) and obscure (not indicated in any clear way, never loses points towards summoning him, is server-wide instead of player-specific, etc). The Wrathful Rabbit King himself is too difficult to escape for how easy he is to summon or turn hostile by mistake. Boats as an escape mechanism honestly seem more like a glitch than intended behavior. 

The only reason we don't see more complaints about it is that nobody bothers with rabbits anyway. 

There isn't an argument to be had here? It's just people calling out bad game design for what it is, and occasionally someone who's either trolling or completely blind to even basic game design principles will half-heartedly try to defend it. 

Edited February 12 by DegenerateFurry

[xDarkSoul18x]

Worse designed thing in the game, has completely killed me even touching rabbits/bunnies. Please just add it to world settings (Like spider queens).  

[DegenerateFurry]

Just now, xDarkSoul18x said:

Worse designed thing in the game, has completely killed me even touching rabbits/bunnies. Please just add it to world settings (Like spider queens).  

At least Spider Queens are easy to kill. Simple kiting pattern, you can just run away from them if you want, a single rabbit trap can negate their spider summons, they only summon one at a time... 

I'd rather see this one fixed instead of having settings slapped on as a bandaid solution, though. Wrathful Rabbit King will still plague new players and Klei servers if settings are the only fix we get.

[GimplyGoose]

Personally, I'm happy with how the wrathful rabbit king works. I've had a fortuitous rabbit drop from a caves earthquake and accidentally attacked it while in/near the ruins and it complicated the situation massively. I think I ended up dying from it, it was awesome.

[gaymime]

1 hour ago, DegenerateFurry said:

Oh, come now, he's clearly just here to troll. It's not any different than the "erm ackshyually Fuelweaver was already nerfed because post-lunar rifts equipment is good against him" thread title, it's bait. There's not two sides to this one.

 Wrathful Rabbit King is just straight-up bad game design. There's not even some dubious "reason" for it to be the way it is like how some people argue that Fuelweaver being a 'final boss'-type enemy makes its out-of-place difficulty acceptable, Wrathful Rabbit King literally exists to make rabbits useless as a food source for a whole server and to punish new players specifically. 

And, like, rabbits didn't need a nerf? They've always been a mediocre-at-best food source. Bunnymen haven't been a good food source for a long while, either. A single visit to Frog Hell or one frog rain in spring will get you way, way, way more hunger value than farming enough rabbits to summon the Rabbit King. 

The system by which you aggro the Wrathful Rabbit King is both ambiguous (literally has a high degree of randomness) and obscure (not indicated in any clear way, never loses points towards summoning him, is server-wide instead of player-specific, etc). The Wrathful Rabbit King himself is too difficult to escape for how easy he is to summon or turn hostile by mistake. Boats as an escape mechanism honestly seem more like a glitch than intended behavior. 

The only reason we don't see more complaints about it is that nobody bothers with rabbits anyway. 

There isn't an argument to be had here? It's just people calling out bad game design for what it is, and occasionally someone who's either trolling or completely blind to even basic game design principles will half-heartedly try to defend it. 

that is very unfair. you are assuming a lot of things without evidence and you seem to be doing so because you've pre-decided that most everyone actually agrees with you.

i will say right now i read a LOT more threads than i reply to and i've seen both of you post quite a bit. they lean on maintaining difficulty a little bit less often than you lean on removing difficulty but do trend in that direction often enough and, as far as i have seen it is generally done with sincerity and a desire to have difficulty in the game for the sake of more enriching gameplay. whether or not the fuelweaver thread is a good take or not is certainly up for debate but it is definitely no less sincere than your more recent "meme" post about skilltrees. perhaps give them the grace to be a living breathing fallible person with preferences and desires just like you are?

 

also, this is a bit aside from things but i would like to say i like the rabbit king in his current state and while i think it should be per-player not global that the counter goes by it does have that ds feel about it that charms people like me who do enjoy the original game with the way it does not desire the player's approval and just wants the player dead. since i am mindful of what i have in my invo and am mindful of the naughtiness mechanic i was able to adjust my playstyle to accommodate. i also had a bit of a thrill the one time i was caught off-guard when i thought i was going to get beaned by a golden rabbit from an earthquake and had to do a mad dash + meat drop only to realise it was just a normal bunny and had a good laugh at myself. this npc was absolutely made for players like me and i am being 100% truthful when i say i appreciate it being here and i dont mind how harsh it is because it makes thematic sense(also the monty python of it all is pretty funny). a toggle to turn him off would be nice but nuking him would hella suck

i guess tldr; maybe let yourself step back a bit? you seem to be taking this topic very seriously and that probably isnt good for your mental well-being in the long run, you are seeing a crawling horror where there is only a mr. skitts

[Popian]

12 hours ago, Bumber64 said:

New DST: Don't Hunt Rabbits Together (collective blame edition).

Funny thing is that if you are playing with others, whoever is not the king's target can go ham on the enforcers. It looks like it's meant to create a pressing situation where you ask for help and coordinate to meet halfway if you have trouble with it.

In a solo scenario, I think a lot of it is getting past how intimidating it looks. A one-on-one safe 5 hit window versus an enforcer is huge compared to a Bunnyman's safe 2 hits (risky 3) and enables tanking without getting stunlocked. There are other tools that can also help a lot with or trivialize the encounter, notably character-specific ones that are cheaper and more accessible than the universal ones.

Edited February 13 by Popian

[Echsrick]

the only good thing rabbits are good for
magic hat station for shadow manipulator

uhm...the left over durability of the trap that you made for 4 rabbits maybe??? rather just drop it off a frog pond or spider den

rabbit earmuffs? if you join in winter default setting gives you one for free allready and winter hat or even cat cap realy not that much harder to get or just torch your way

even if rabbits as food source is not that good it used to atleast be a fool proof of meat for new players....now new players may make a trap or 2, place them at the rabbit holes and eventualy a boss spawns that is way too strong, keeps spawning in new way too tanky enemys, AND TELEPORTS TO YOU at all times even if you escape....and now the new player gets discouraged of makin traps because the rabbit king that spawned next to them destroys them

in a way the rabbit king exist to discourage players of using traps to get rabbits at all wich....makes everyone just ignore an entire mob thats litteraly existed since the beggining of dontstarve and its learning circle and rabbits being a nice little helper for new players...gone completly bad...it can even discourage new players of playing more of the game because they saw it as too unfair wich is true

in all: rabbit king was a mistake

[DegenerateFurry]

3 hours ago, gaymime said:

that is very unfair. you are assuming a lot of things without evidence and you seem to be doing so because you've pre-decided that most everyone actually agrees with you.

No, I've just actually read this thread and noticed that the vast majority of posts are in agreement here. Even if they weren't, though, I know I'm right on this as sure as I know the sky's blue on a clear day or that I'd get wet if I went for a swim in the ocean right now. These are all equal instances of common sense. I'd be standing by my opinion just as strongly even if I didn't think a single person agreed, it's just fortunate that a glance at this thread shows I'm in good company. Go count up the Rabbit King-critical posts yourself if you don't believe me.

3 hours ago, gaymime said:

 whether or not the fuelweaver thread is a good take or not is certainly up for debate but it is definitely no less sincere than your more recent "meme" post about skilltrees. perhaps give them the grace to be a living breathing fallible person with preferences and desires just like you are?

You mean that meme I slapped together in less than a minute as a joke about how Walter got the best skill tree, Wendy's was a bit lackluster, and then there's characters like Warly who're yet to get one at all? Dunno why meme's in quotes there or why you're bringing it up, a meme post's exactly what it was. I will say, there's a difference between a low-effort and particularly inoffensive meme-post and making an entire thread with a title tailor-made to provoke people. But, my personal distaste for someone else aside, let's get back to the topic of the thread.

3 hours ago, gaymime said:

also, this is a bit aside from things but i would like to say i like the rabbit king in his current state

Nah, you don't: 

3 hours ago, gaymime said:

 i think it should be per-player not global that the counter goes by 

You acknowledge that it's a flawed implementation. That means you don't like the current state. You do seem to want it to change less than most of us here do, but you've admitted it's flawed and suggested a change. 

3 hours ago, gaymime said:

also, this is a bit aside from things but i would like to say i like the rabbit king in his current state and while i think it should be per-player not global that the counter goes by it does have that ds feel about it that charms people like me who do enjoy the original game with the way it does not desire the player's approval and just wants the player dead. 

The "DS feel" you're talking about is blind nostalgia for something that never existed. How about we compare WRK to some stuff from what you claim was that imagined era, though? Treeguards and Spider Queens. 

They've got simple kiting patterns that are super easy to dodge, Treeguards don't have any summons and Spider Queens slowly summon one at a time (and they're just spiders, so you can kill them instantly with a rabbit trap or in a couple ham bat swings without taking damage), and you can run away from them if they're too much for you. Like the Wrathful Rabbit King, they're bosses related to a resource that serve to limit, in some fashion, the player's ability to farm that resource: Treeguards directly by showing up when you chop trees, and Spider Queens by disrupting spider farming. Unlike the Wrathful Rabbit King, you can - as stated - just run away from them, like nearly everything else in the game except one post-game boss. Which is a DST thing, that never existed in original Don't Starve. 

3 hours ago, gaymime said:

i guess tldr; maybe let yourself step back a bit? you seem to be taking this topic very seriously and that probably isnt good for your mental well-being in the long run, you are seeing a crawling horror where there is only a mr. skitts

I take this seriously because I want this game to be better. It's a good game, but it could be a great one if the developers would leave behind this notion that making the game inaccessible to newbies is somehow good for it. 

Edited February 13 by DegenerateFurry

[Nikki Darks]

My single, only issue with rabbit king is that if a rabbit falls down from an earthquake and dies.... You get an angry rabbit king on your ahh. 

Other than this little issue the mob is fine, the drops are okay, the weapon is nifty and the fight itself isn't too difficult.

[Bumber64]

17 hours ago, Cruvimaster said:

The question is, why do you want such an absurd amount of this resource early in the game, and why don't you just put insane amounts into world creation and go clear out the caves?

I believe I'm on record stating that fur rolls are a useless item, so IDK why I'd want them at any point in the game.

I was also explicit that the problem wasn't bunnymen, and that I suspected you were trolling. Thanks for confirming.

Edited February 13 by Bumber64

[GimplyGoose]

22 hours ago, DegenerateFurry said:

You acknowledge that it's a flawed implementation. That means you don't like the current state. You do seem to want it to change less than most of us here do, but you've admitted it's flawed and suggested a change.

I just want to point out that something can be flawed and still be good. I would say that just about everything that exists has room for improvement.