The Ancient Fuelweaver has already been nerfed by the devs.

[Cruvimaster]

32 minutes ago, Bumber64 said:

I don't think CK actually even got easier in his rework. You need a pan flute to deal with minions or he'll heal. They just added non-boat time for attacking, but you risk falling into the water. (Personal floater was added post rework.) It's just that people aren't used to boat combat (and it sucks). Do bees not still work against him?

My experience is that this boss is at an intermediate difficulty level. It's definitely not difficult. I used to consider it on par with AFW, maybe even harder. But that doesn't mean I'm saying it should be at that level, because AFW is the final boss with powerful loot and the ability to restore the ruins. CK, on the other hand, was a necessary boss to reach the final boss (Celestial Champion).

CK is very straightforward. You play a flute and hit him indefinitely until his HP is almost depleted. The Claws are negated simply by circling the arena until you get close to the boss and hitting him a few more times. To eliminate the dangers of the cannons, just use the Grass Raft Kit. He's not an easy boss, but he's far from difficult. 

But I think CK is OK for his position in the context of the game. He fulfills a similar function to the Shadow Pieces. The rework didn't make him a better boss than the old CK. The old CK had a concept that I quite liked: he can't kill the character, he'll only shipwreck them and frustrate the player on the edge of the map. The new CK is just another boss like so many others in the game.

[AliceShiki]

4 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

Because I either wasn't in those threads or just didn't see them. That being said the devs likely wouldn't do that we'd either get one or the other.

I don't disagree with you that it's unlikely for the devs to allow us to choose what fight we want when considering the precedent of Crab King rework not being given the option when people suggested it back then... But hey, an official forum is there for people to throw ideas around, and for the devs to implement them in whatever way they want (or in no way at all), so it doesn't hurt to keep suggesting it~

3 hours ago, Cruvimaster said:

It makes no sense to talk about nerfing (the word rework is a fallacy, because they want it to be an easy boss for bad players. And those who want that are a minority, easily exposed in a vote) a boss that allows countless different approaches, whether using characters or legitimate items (Weather Pain, Brightshade Staff).

You do realize that a poll with a whooping 88 votes means absolutely nothing as far as the opinions of the wider playerbase goes, right?

Nobody here has any idea of what the wider playerbase wants with AFW... Realistically speaking, the most likely answer would be, "I dunno, I didn't even know that this boss existed." though.

Polls in a small forum like this one just show what the small handful of forum players are thinking, not so much what the wider playerbase wants... We can't really talk about numbers when using this kind of small sample size. These numbers are so small that they can't even be extrapolated to try getting a picture of the wider playerbase, especially because it only samples from forum players, which are naturally more enfranchised players by default, since most players won't bother with visiting a forum.

45 minutes ago, Bumber64 said:

I don't think CK actually even got easier in his rework. You need a pan flute to deal with minions or he'll heal. They just added non-boat time for attacking, but you risk falling into the water. (Personal floater was added post rework.) It's just that people aren't used to boat combat (and it sucks). Do bees not still work against him?

For what it's worth, I tried in a test world to beat CK without Bees, Panflute and whatnot. I played Wigfrid and just used her Spear to beat the boss up.

It was... Doable? My Archaic Boat broke a few times, and I had to restart the fight as I drowned, but it was doable... I just had to move around with the Spear's Dash to not be stunlocked by the minions, while also trying to hit CK with the dashes.

Dunno how doable it is with other characters, since they don't have Wigfrid's Spear for the dash, but it was doable... Can't say I can win that fight regularly, but I would probably be able to do it with enough practice (though I have no intention of practicing it enough to get to that point).

22 minutes ago, Cruvimaster said:

There is no need for any changes to AFW. It wasn't the difficulty that made the devs change the Ancient Guardian or Crab King.

Yeah, it was mostly the fact that they were complained about by certain portions of the playerbase because the way the fight was played out was annoying for those players.

Which is 100% the same situation as AFW (and this can also be applied to a lot of other bosses, btw, Bee Queen, Dfly, Toadstool... And the list can go on)... And like I said above, we have no idea if the number of players who actually feel this way is big or not because a forum poll isn't representative of the larger playerbase in any shape or form. We just know that the people who hate AFW exist.

3 hours ago, Cruvimaster said:

The fact that players could only defeat them with cheese. By that logic, the next boss should be Dagonfly, since players only use walls.

Because yanno, arguing about Dragonfly being in the same standard as old CK and old Ancient Guardian is, quite frankly, just a bad faith argument. Dfly is cheesed because people are too lazy to try the fight and just want the easy rewards.

Old CK was a heavy micro-management fight where a single mistake made you lose the fight.

Old Ancient Guardian was just... Boring. That's it. There is nothing else to old Ancient Guardian, it was just boring and unremarkable.

The three bosses aren't really alike... Even old CK and old Ancient Guardian aren't really alike. CK was frustrating, AG was boring. Dfly is cheesed for easy rewards... It really isn't the same argument at all.

[Cruvimaster]

18 minutes ago, AliceShiki said:

Nobody here has any idea of what the wider playerbase wants with AFW... Realistically speaking, the most likely answer would be, "I dunno, I didn't even know that this boss existed." though.

The devs understand this and that's why they made AFW and CC optional through the world settings. Want the loot from AFW or CC? Pay the price for the reward. Nobody needs the loot from these bosses to keep playing. They just covet it because it's good. And what's so difficult about waiting a few more days of gameplay to face AFW once you have access to the Brightshade Staff?

[DegenerateFurry]

I unironically wouldn't be opposed to a Dragonfly rework. The boss is an utter failure of design (like original AG, original Crab King, and Ancient Fuelweaver) as evidenced by the fact that nobody actually fights it and everyone except YouTubers trying to impress their audience cheeses it with walls. Players refuse to engage with the core mechanics of the fight because they're not fun and are unworkable, same as original AG where everyone would just hide behind a pillar. It at least needs some major changes (like lavae being one-shot by ice staffs) for non-walls strats to be viable solo. 

1 hour ago, AliceShiki said:

You do realize that a poll with a whooping 88 votes means absolutely nothing as far as the opinions of the wider playerbase goes, right?

Nobody here has any idea of what the wider playerbase wants with AFW... Realistically speaking, the most likely answer would be, "I dunno, I didn't even know that this boss existed." though.

Polls in a small forum like this one just show what the small handful of forum players are thinking, not so much what the wider playerbase wants... We can't really talk about numbers when using this kind of small sample size. These numbers are so small that they can't even be extrapolated to try getting a picture of the wider playerbase, especially because it only samples from forum players, which are naturally more enfranchised players by default, since most players won't bother with visiting a forum.

 

Very accurate. People on this forum are heavily invested in playing the game and do not represent the broader, more casual playerbase. Also, a lot of Fuelweaver's staunchest apologists are speedrunners who've spent so much time practicing the fight that they can do it blindfolded, but don't see how that warps their perception of its difficulty for people who just play normally. 

Edited February 3 by DegenerateFurry

[Cruvimaster]

It hasn't been long since the devs dedicated attention to AFW. It also hasn't been long since they tackled some cheeses. They obviously know their game and even mention the use of Weather Pain against AFW. And it's obvious they know the Brightshade Staff is version 2.0 of Weather Pain. I think Ancient Guardian and CK were very specific cases. I don't think they'll follow the path of boss reworks, but they will make indirect nerfs with the addition of new items, as is the case with the Brightshade Staff for AFW or the T.I.N.G.L.E. Node for the Bee Queen.

[Popian]

6 hours ago, DegenerateFurry said:

we can see in it their design philosophy at the time: making bosses that are meant not to be possible solo.

Making bosses that are meant as co-op activity for ~2 players != making bosses that are meant not to be possible solo.

I think it's fair to dread the disproportionate amount of prep/loops needed to take some of them on alone where success is all or nothing.

[Bumber64]

3 hours ago, Cruvimaster said:

There is no urgency. There is no need for any changes to AFW. It wasn't the difficulty that made the devs change the Ancient Guardian or Crab King. Warbot and Scion are proof that we still have developers in the game who don't give in to trivializing bosses. And as has been demonstrated, AFW becomes quite easy with the use of the Brightshade Staff.

It's not the difficulty, it's the annoying mechanics that create rough edges. The item swapping bosses are particularly bad for players using controllers or with certain motor impairments. You can't accommodate everyone, but there should be a consideration in design when the game does not handle item swapping well. (See: Those twigs in your empty slots.)

You can also gunpowder or godmode AFW, but none of these make the AFW fight better. The goal isn't to trivialize, it's to polish the edges.

3 hours ago, Cruvimaster said:

But I think CK is OK for his position in the context of the game. He fulfills a similar function to the Shadow Pieces.

He's more like AG.

Edited February 3 by Bumber64

[layangan putus]

8 hours ago, DegenerateFurry said:

Toadstool was a shining example of that: he originally had even more health than Misery Toadstool and would flee after five minutes.

Can 6 players beat the misery toad under 5 mins? Of course, no skill tree and flingo cheese. Pure teamwork, chop and hit as 6 WGs maybe. I think devs made that unique mechanic to keep players busy while waiting for updates. One way I can think of to beat the misery toadstool under 5 mins as a solo is to gather hundreds of tree guards.

 

Solve this:

• Misery Toadstool with 156500 HP;
• 5 mins before it flees;
• Average speed 2,3 attacks/sec with 0,4333 delay (maybe the delay was different back then);
• Can use animation cancelling;
• 6 Players equipped with the best weapon available and the pick/axe to chop faster.

 

If possible, then there is indeed a correlation between the old design and multiplayer. After that, how about 5 players? 4 players? And so on?

Edited February 3 by layangan putus

[DegenerateFurry]

2 hours ago, layangan putus said:

Can 6 players beat the misery toad under 5 mins? Of course, no skill tree and flingo cheese. Pure teamwork, chop and hit as 6 WGs maybe. I think devs made that unique mechanic to keep players busy while waiting for updates. One way I can think of to beat the misery toadstool under 5 mins as a solo is to gather hundreds of tree guards.

 

Solve this:

• Misery Toadstool with 156500 HP;
• 5 mins before it flees;
• Average speed 2,3 attacks/sec with 0,4333 delay (maybe the delay was different back then);
• Can use animation cancelling;
• 6 Players equipped with the best weapon available and the pick/axe to chop faster.

 

If possible, then there is indeed a correlation between the old design and multiplayer. After that, how about 5 players? 4 players? And so on?

Well, there's a video where a Wolfgang using dark swords, spiced voltgoat jelly, glass axes, and the Enlightened Crown during rain kills Misery Toadstool in three minutes, and he's not even animation cancelling. That tells me six Wolfgangs could very easily do the original Toadstool with comparable equipment, but I think even that setup would be a close call for a solo player since three minutes with the current Misery Toadstool's 100,000 HP is already running up on the time limit and adding an extra 56.5k to that could very well make it impossible without animation cancelling (which should never factor into balance decisions because it's an exploit).

Also of note is that the DPS would actually be substantially lower in the patch where Toadstool had this behavior and that much HP, because the Crown wasn't a thing yet, and Wolfgang would've been chopping slower due to no moonglass axes. 

To put it simply: raw DPS-wise, a jellied spiced Wolfgang team of six would've been able to kill OG Toadstool before it fled and I don't doubt that even a little, but it seems to me like it would've been literally impossible solo in that patch even with ideal gear and conditions without using that one cheese that used to exist where you got him stuck. 

Edited February 3 by DegenerateFurry

[layangan putus]

12 minutes ago, DegenerateFurry said:

To put it simply: raw DPS-wise, a jellied spiced Wolfgang team of six would've been able to kill OG Toadstool before it fled and I don't doubt that even a little, but it seems to me like it would've been literally impossible solo in that patch even with ideal gear and conditions without using that one cheese that used to exist where you got him stuck. 

They tried to solve this 9-10 years ago (according to the discussion below). The context was M-Toad and DF Boss Puzzles for the holiday and late-game challenge. Indeed, Warly's spiced jelly, glass axes, and e-crown hadn't existed back then until at least July 2019. The community was struggling and complaining about the bosses; they doubted that even a multiplayer attempt against M-Toad was possible. Also, around this time, walls likely became the primary solution for containing lavae. My question is, "Did devs really design the game based on multiplayer, thus forsaking the solo players, or what was going on?"

 

I'm uncertain whether the AFW was intended to follow this specific design, but it turned out well enough for a decent challenge. The point is, DST should keep these challenging-to-near-impossible boss designs to keep things interesting for newcomers, and also, I feel like I am getting too much out of a $15 game (price may vary), so I'll just follow them doing whatever. I heard the new hotshot is a fun boss to hunt. Soon... soon.

[Popian]

I think it bears repeating that the old Toadstool took extra damage while spawning trees, so it would be most reliable to make a few videos of it in action to get a better understanding of how it would play out.

It also could have been intended as a puzzle boss with the solution of "use the followers" based on its vulnerabilities and the time limit.

[DegenerateFurry]

1 minute ago, layangan putus said:

They tried to solve this 9-10 years ago (according to the discussion below). The context was M-Toad and DF Boss Puzzles for the holiday and late-game challenge. Indeed, Warly's spiced jelly, glass axes, and e-crown hadn't existed back then until at least July 2019. The community was struggling and complaining about the bosses; they doubted that even a multiplayer attempt against M-Toad was possible. Also, around this time, walls likely became the primary solution for containing lavae. My question is, "Did devs really design the game based on multiplayer, thus forsaking the solo players, or what was going on?"

 

I'm uncertain whether the AFW was intended to follow this specific design, but it turned out well enough for a decent challenge. The point is, DST should keep these challenging-to-near-impossible boss designs to keep things interesting for newcomers, and also, I feel like I am getting too much out of a $15 game (price may vary), so I'll just follow them doing whatever. I heard the new hotshot is a fun boss to hunt. Soon... soon.

I don't mind challenging-to-near-impossible content being in the game, but only if it's entirely optional, like Enraged Klaus. Fuelweaver is a required boss to unlock a growing and already large chunk of game content and should thus be reworked the way Crab King (who was in the same situation) was.

[CrimsonStrider]

12 hours ago, DegenerateFurry said:

were literally not designed with solo players in mind

I bought DST because I was hoping it would be a game that put a lot of emphasis on the together part. It was only after experiencing the Switch userbase that it became a mostly solo experience. Very frustrating at first, but I put effort into getting good enough at things to change how I feel. DST bosses are rather boring in general and AFW is one of the few that is interesting either solo or with friends.

12 hours ago, DegenerateFurry said:

Also, no, I don't judge people for using mods and the in-game settings the devs built in, I'm not a hypocrite

That wasn't directed to you, but one of the other posters being an ass in this topic 

[Cruvimaster]

7 hours ago, Bumber64 said:

It's not the difficulty, it's the annoying mechanics that create rough edges.

You presented a point of experience that, by its nature, is extremely subjective.

I won't use the word "fun" here. I think the use of that word is too superficial in this forum, being a wild card for any defense of a point of view.

For me, the first encounter with AFW would have as keywords "challenging" and a feeling of "rewarding" for the effort in the learning curve.

And the replayability experience against AFW becomes easy, since the boss gives you an item that prevents the imprisonment attack through Shadow Thurible, and each time the player progresses in the game, this boss becomes easier.

[Cruvimaster]

The first time around, AFW can be very difficult (without Weather Pain), difficult (with Weather Pain), or easy (Brightshade Staff). As it progresses into the late game, it becomes a tree guard.

 

Edited February 3 by Cruvimaster

[Bumber64]

9 hours ago, Cruvimaster said:

And the replayability experience against AFW becomes easy, since the boss gives you an item that prevents the imprisonment attack through Shadow Thurible, and each time the player progresses in the game, this boss becomes easier.

What's the point of it becoming easier the second time, when you've already done it the first time without? Boulderboughs make ruins resets less useful.

If you're replaying the fight for your own enjoyment, I'd hate to think anyone was intentionally depriving themselves of such an interesting mechanic.

[Cruvimaster]

45 minutes ago, Bumber64 said:

If you're replaying the fight for your own enjoyment, I'd hate to think anyone was intentionally depriving themselves of such an interesting mechanic.

The only boss I only face once is Misery Toadstool. And AFW is always useful.

Sometimes I'm surprised by people who think they know all aspects of DST and believe that AFW is just a ruins reset to obtain gems and thulecites. LOL

Edited February 3 by Cruvimaster

[Mike23Ua]

22 hours ago, Popian said:

Making bosses that are meant as co-op activity for ~2 players != making bosses that are meant not to be possible solo.

I think it's fair to dread the disproportionate amount of prep/loops needed to take some of them on alone where success is all or nothing.

It should not be too hard to scale the game based on how many players are engaged in the given activity.

I can prove this by stating I use to heavily play Willow, and attempt to fight Klaus with Big Bernie’s, yeah you heard me right, multiple Big Bernie’s (by placing the dolls around the boss so when one dies a second one instantly animated to life to take its place while I played “field Medic” repairing the damaged Bernie’s with Sewing Kits.)

What I did not know back THEN that I now know NOW is that “Bernie” counts as an additional “Entity” in the boss fight- This means that there will be more Klaus Crater Attacks (or Antlion Targets) for these bosses then there would have otherwise been without trying to use Bernie in these fights.

So then why can’t the game scale to balance itself out based on how many players are around like this???

I NEVER have any fun with DSTs bosses when trying to fight them Solo, even the small easy ones like Eye of Terror or the freaking Evil Bunny Overlord Bugs Bunny Chuck Norris Rabbit who chases you relentlessly & spawns seemingly endless bodyguards to protect him.

This fight is easy in groups of 2 or more players, it’s living hell trying to do it Solo.

[Bumber64]

9 hours ago, Cruvimaster said:

Sometimes I'm surprised by people who think they know all aspects of DST and believe that AFW is just a ruins reset to obtain gems and thulecites. LOL

Houndius has been outdated since catapults. Lunar buzzards will kindly demolish those for you so you can upgrade.

Edited February 4 by Bumber64

[layangan putus]

2 hours ago, Bumber64 said:

Houndius has been outdated since catapults. Lunar buzzards will kindly demolish those for you so you can upgrade.

Not really outdated, it depends on the project.

 

Placement density in 3x3 tiles. 8 vs 25 (Maybe players can squeeze one more catapult to get 9).

 

Multiple Houndius against AFW. It doesn't matter if he heals; he can't out-heal the total damage from multiple Houndius. Can catapults do the same?

 

In the same 15 seconds, a single catapult can deal 255 damage, while a Houndius can deal 325 damage against enemies without planar protection. Despite this, Winona can easily make 25 catapults in less than a season, while players need more than 500 days to craft a mere 25 Houndius. Catapults are better for small farming projects involving multiple enemies, while Houndius are an effective late-game solution against bosses, especially when the space is limited.

Edited February 4 by layangan putus

[CrimsonStrider]

2 hours ago, Bumber64 said:

Houndius has been outdated since catapults. Lunar buzzards will kindly demolish those for you so you can upgrade.

Don't go near something during rift while buzzards are active.

Kill buzzards when they spawn.

Setup a houndius arena for the buzzards.

Use houndius in caves.

Move farms to lunar.

Turn off buzzards.

 

13 hours ago, Bumber64 said:

What's the point of it becoming easier the second time, when you've already done it the first time without?

What's the point of killing a werepig with a spear and getting materials to make it easier the second time?

If I wanna do it faster I use more stuff. If I wanna enjoy the fight I use less. Where is the issue here? 

Also, the thurible adds its own type of management. It's convenient that I dont have to worry about cage, but even better is I don't have him deaggro. I'm fairly good at dodging cage, but its nice removing the risk of him deaggroing during an emergency teleport.

[Cruvimaster]

4 hours ago, Bumber64 said:

Lunar buzzards will kindly demolish those for you so you can upgrade.

Delving into the topics of using items (catapults, for example) or other characters' abilities would lead us to a new branch of the debate about AFW. If catapults are used for farming, what's the justification for not using them against AFW? And along this line of questioning, we would arrive at the powerful Volt Goat Chaud-Froid.

In 2016, the easiest way to fight AFW was using Wolfgang and Weather Pain. Today, the possibilities are enormous, with characters who have some kind of advantage against this boss (Wolfgang, Wurt, Winona, Wigfrid, Woodie, Wanda, Wortox, Wickerbottom, etc.).

Regarding Lunar buzzards, I've noticed that they only appear after starting Lunar Hail. So just stay away from farming. And we also know that the devs will make changes to these mobs in the future.

[Mysterious box]

On 2/2/2026 at 9:38 PM, Bumber64 said:

It's not the difficulty, it's the annoying mechanics that create rough edges. The item swapping bosses are particularly bad for players using controllers or with certain motor impairments. You can't accommodate everyone, but there should be a consideration in design when the game does not handle item swapping well. (See: Those twigs in your empty slots.)

So I can agree with accessibility issues but I feel like if we're coming at it from that angle Fuelweaver isn't what the conversation should be about it should be a better controller layout with a way to map quick switching to individual buttons. I don't use controllers for dst I tried once as it's usually my prefer way to experience games and really did not enjoy it. Rather than simplifying the game for controllers perhaps making a mode switch button for combat or specific situations would be a better way to implement it? This is just me spitballing though as it's been years I tried controllers on dst and I don't remember the layout.

[Bumber64]

7 hours ago, Cruvimaster said:

Delving into the topics of using items (catapults, for example) or other characters' abilities would lead us to a new branch of the debate about AFW. If catapults are used for farming, what's the justification for not using them against AFW? And along this line of questioning, we would arrive at the powerful Volt Goat Chaud-Froid.

You can use them if you want, but it still doesn't fix his issues. You're just wallpapering over them by facerolling the boss. The bone cage mechanic not mattering because you could choose to automate 99% of the fight, or disable it on the second fight, isn't high praise of it.

I only brought up catapults because you brought up houndius in response to why thurible matters at all. Houndius has long been outdated because of the item requirements and the existence of alternatives (star caller + flingo, anenemies, bramble traps, treeguard idols, and brightshades). They do fit compactly on boats, for the situations where that's useful. It's just not particularly relevant that the 2nd fight is easier. Using shadow abilities unlocked from a previous world is somewhat more relevant.

3 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

So I can agree with accessibility issues but I feel like if we're coming at it from that angle Fuelweaver isn't what the conversation should be about it should be a better controller layout with a way to map quick switching to individual buttons. I don't use controllers for dst I tried once as it's usually my prefer way to experience games and really did not enjoy it. Rather than simplifying the game for controllers perhaps making a mode switch button for combat or specific situations would be a better way to implement it? This is just me spitballing though as it's been years I tried controllers on dst and I don't remember the layout.

It's not just the controllers. It's telepoofing with the mouse, the unreliable hotbar (again: twigs), targeting the correct mob, etc.

Edited February 4 by Bumber64

[Cruvimaster]

10 minutes ago, Bumber64 said:

You can use them if you want, but it still doesn't fix his issues.

Yes, it's true. There's no way to solve the problems of bad players. Only if they were born again. 

There are several ways to approach the boss, but the players just keep begging the devs to nerf everything so they can feel like better DST players.