Skilltrees and "Specialization" (feedback)

[Draggofroot]

Skill trees in video games, when used well, are used to enhance a character's skills, moveset, and arsenal and allows a player to choose from a wider variety of playstyles. Horizon Forbidden West (I have not played zero dawn), in my personal opinion, does it well. There are many branches to choose from (Ranged, melee, stealth, machine riding, etc.) and each branch focuses on a specific aspect of the game, the hunter branch focuses on your mid-range battles and weaponry, melee unlocks spear combos and betters your melee skills, I'm not gonna list them all but you get the idea. Maybe early game you want to spend your skillpoints more on your hunter branch and then later on you enhance your machine riding branch, the skill tree system in horizon makes skill progression WAY more flexible

However a lot of DST's character skilltrees do not do this that well.
Of course these are wildly different games so let me tell you what makes DST's skilltrees work

In DST, many times you get 2 players picking the same character. Of course, many people don't want to pick a different character from their favourite just because someone else is using it, and the skilltrees can fix that with "specialization". Specialization is when someone focuses all their knowledge to one single aspect of the game. For example in Wormwood's skill tree (Wortox would probably be a WAYYYY better example, but im using wormwood because i know him the most), there are 4 branches, the left half of the tree has the farming and crafting branches, which both enhance the stay-at-home playstyle of wormwood. The right half of the tree is more focused on your bloom time (and thus how long you have a speed buff) and plant weaponry, which cater to the combat side of wormwood. This specialization is even BETTER because of the 15 point limit, i do recall many people complaining about it, but i see it as a perfect design choice. This allows for 2 wormwoods in the server with 2 different roles without stepping on eachothers' toes too much.

However some skill trees simply are not structured in a way and/or do not have enough specialization skills to have that same specialization as Wormwood

For example Wurt, there's 2 branches (plus affinity)
1 branch enhances wurt's survivability, which does NOT specialize Wurt.

and the other makes her minions better

in the minion branch there are a few key sub-branches

-Mosquito stuff (can be ignored because it doesn't really provide specialization cuz it's military+economy)
-tools for craftsmerms+king's hunger (economy)
-AI upgrades to the merm warriors (king skills)+armoury+2 affinities (military)

These branches do allow for specialization but technically not really, since there's not enough skills in a specific specialization branch to really impact how specialized a specific character can be, for example i can invest all my skills into military (5 skills, plus the 2 for affinities which only really affect the military) and still have enough skill points to basically buy all of the economy skills (only 5 skills) and STILL Have enough to spend to buy out a significant part of another branch. It's very hard to have 2 wurts on the same server without trampling on eachother's roles.
See what I mean? This problem is even more of a glaring issue in Wilson's and Wolfgang's skilltrees, there's simply not enough (or just a lack of) specialization skills in each tree.
DST tries to be more like Horizon's skill trees, which works when it's a singleplayer setting, but it's a multiplayer situation most of the time. It should focus WAYYY more on specialization.

What to do now?

I say Klei should go back and look at each skill tree. See which skills should be turned into a default character perk (because more points spent on general skills is less points spent on specialization) and see which specialization branches could be expanded/added. And also do not be afraid to listen to the community, Klei. The community's feedback and ideas are literally everything a dev team could ask for, for example I've seen a post talking about wurt's economy branch upgrading Merm society to be on the level of Hamlet's pigs, I personally think it's a wonderful idea! There is a whole FORUM to explore unique ideas from hundreds if not thousands of DST fans.

I love the idea of skilltrees. I just wish some characters got better treatment 

[Dr.Webber]

I still got a few edits to make but Do you thing this potential skill tree is good:

skill tree:

 

 

(befriended nurse spider to unlock)

• Unbreakable friendship: Make decorated dens  not break when attacked and spiders in the  Bedazzled range only attack attackers and nurses spawn from tier 3+ decorating the den will no longer retract the ground webbing, when not befriended bedazzled spiders will stay within the range of the decorated den

 

 

• Oral obliging : cause spiders to “hammer” by hitting the structure you want to be hammered once in case of a miss click use webby whistle to cancel demolition, they eat yucuse snot now when you’re stuck, can rummage through hound mounds(blue and red gems)/burrows (stolen items as well as rock, Flint, nighter, and gold)/hollow stump (stolen items)/splumonkey pod (stolen items)/marotter den(stolen items)/tidy hidy holes(for collected dust) items gained by rummaging will temporarily be wet due to saliva you can trigger the spiders too start rummaging by blowing the whistle near the thing you want them to rummage through rummaging will be a timed interaction similar to picking a berry bush or going through a scrap pile 
     

 

• Silk fashioner: razors can be used to mark sticky webbing for retraction,if you  place sticky webbing connected to the den and the den still has sticky webbing to use the den will “place” that instead of using your own sticky webbing, you can craft sticky webbing with 2 silk(sticky webbing outside of that I “placed” by the den would trigger spiders to come out)(only crafted sticky webbing drops when using the razor)

• Rapid Growth: Webber can upgrade dens with 4 silk instead of 5 silk

 

 

 

• Regeneration sensitization:increase stats from nurse spiders for Webber(15 hp)

• Nocturnally adept: partial night vision  (sense spiders walk around at night) only silhouettes  not enough to not be attacked by Charlie but enough to  see where your going, reduced sanity lose from dusk or night 60-80% during dawn and 40-60% during night.

 

 

• Deeper den sleeper:Stats for sleeping in dens to 2 health and 3 health per second 

• No picky eater: Webber has the ability to eat horrible meats that pigs and spiders eat as well as unique stats for monster the various forms of monster meat

 

Bunny puff and slurper pelt: hunger:12.5

 

Pig skin: hunger: 62.5

 

Cooked monster meat: hunger: 25 health:3

 

monster lasagna: hunger: 37.5 health: 10 sanity:10(this also extends to monster tartare hunger: 62.5 health: 10 sanity:10)

 

 monster jerky: hunger: 37.5 health: 15 sanity:20

 

• Den Relocation: Tier 1 dens can be picked up by Webber and relocated (affects Decorated Dens + can remove and relocate the stickers)(pulled from @JJ0264)

 

• Unnatural brood: You are now able to craft the itsy bitsy nest reusing the baby spiders from the forge and they fill up a Polar Bearger Bin like item called the itsy bitsy nest and they would act as distractions somewhat like the parasitic shading  but the victim wouldn’t be immune to damage you decide if,when,and how many you takeout at a time also depending on what beard skin you have on will determine what they look like  they would look like tiny versions of what spiders from a den that has a queen that looks like that beards respective Webber skin as well as the egg sack having the same color,you get 6 slots with 12-20 second cool down until you can spawn the next one and they would do 9 damage(18 if you feed them electric milk),have 7 hp, upon death one will respawn every 90 seconds 

(You need this to craft the 3 care crafts and after the first 4 uses you need to replace the den decorating set for five more uses each time you run out)

1 spider egg, 1 den decorating set,24 health

 

Concept examples:

 

 

 

 

 

(the spiders go down to the size of a baby spider and his smiling like a befriended one)

 

 

(like this except they smile like befriended spiders)

 

 

 

 

 

 

• Carecrafts :  (unnatural brood required, use the itsy-bitsy den as a portable crafting station)

 

Friendship bracelets: 2 bone shard, six beard hair, and one butterfly used in conjunction with the homemade to revive spiders you bind a spider to a friendship bracelet similar to a beefalo to a Beefalo Bell except you don’t give it a name the next time it dies it drops the friendship bracelet pain on how you wanna go with us at a lower durability, maybe have to be repairable with bone  and if you wanna automate a bit what if it works like  cursed trinkets except instead of being drawn to players it’s drawn to the nearest homemade den and if there’s an open slot, it takes it

 

 

Totem of friendship: (@Creatingabe1125’s idea) It would work if you have 2 or more spider, and what it would do is reduce damage against a hit based on how many spiders were hit and how many spiders there are. With more spiders meaning more pontential damage reduction against a hit and the more spiders hit the more that damage reduction is granted. However it only works when 2 or more spiders are hit 5-65% damage reduction, there would also be a damage buff The dmg buff would be simple with 0.5 extra dmg per spider upto a maximum of 10 extra dmg. The friendship totem would cost 1 living log, 8 silk, and 1 red gem, and would lose 2% durability per dead spider

 

homemade den: every time the den has a spider added it lose 1% durability, you can find out how much durability there is by inspecting, and you can repair it using silk but maybe by 2-5%. it has 12 spiders with the inventory of a scaled chest but for spiders only, it’ll take 90 seconds for each spider to respawn it (and how it will respawn a spider after the 90 seconds is the lightning conductor purple gem combination will cause lightning to strike around it the respawned to spider crawl out of the ground like rabbit king as a reference to how you unlock Webber in solo Don’t Starve)

it will spawn that Webbing Wickerbottom spawns with Overcoming Arachnophobia around it, you could also call the spiders out of the den by interacting with it

And it can be broken using a hammer

(craft the homemade den with a purple gem, a lightning conductor, and 2 sticks )

 

 

Travel den: it’s a large backpack like item with 4 or 6 general slots, and a hidden 20 slot storage for spiders that can be opened like a polar bin. It also has the down side of slowing you down 10% Along side the general backpack slots there are 2 specialized slots with one containing healing glop for incredibly faster healing regeneration and the other slot is for storing spider food so they Don’t Starve. You can also use your webby whistle to call them out for battle or to call them back in in emergencies or to quickly heal or to just travel with them. It would cost 12 silk, 4 papyrus, 

 

(Original idea and Art by @blacknight7890, I edited in the flag)

 

 

 

• Silkcrafts:

Web net: eight silk, a certain number of scrap ,and one electric milk it’s like a less powerful shadow prison that does damage over the time depending on how big the creature is caught in it they will stay trapped for 5 to 10 minutes with a 30 second cooldown electric unnatural energy damages them overtime

 

Silk spindle:@blacknight7890 came up with an idea I re named it and changed its look but other then that it’s all there’s Learn to craft a 'Silk spindle', [like a giant spindle with spider hair and  a finial on it (with white string when silk is on it)] a structure that can be placed near decorated spider dens. Spiders will spin webs onto it over time, can be harvested for silk." [passive silk farming]

 

finial looks like this:

 

 

 

 

• Garden spider :farm like Webber does in the gorge and learn more from the gardeneer hat(same as Premier Gardeneer Hat)

 

(Icon borrowed from @BiddoBams’ Warly skill tree)

• Spider Goatherder: learn to milk volt goats with empty bottles, volt goats won’t be disturbed by Webber anymore and calm charged volt goats by feeding them any number of Wobsters, bananas,meat,Burch nuts, pomegranates,eggs, Asparagus, pumpkin seeds (doing this while not charged will make them follow you for a short period time to allow for easier relocation)

 

 

 

 

• Silk stitch: You can now repair things with silk like Winona’s trusty tape

 

• acidophilic arachnid: when in acid rain Webber gets: 

 

Attack Damage	Physical DamageTaken	Move Speed
+5%	-2.5%	+1.5%

 

• Queen decorator: you can now decorate spider queen that will give her all the same effects of a decorated den(if you have unbreakable friendship, decorations won’t fall off when hit and will only attack attackers), when fighting nearby, spider queen will send over befriended nurse spiders to your aid

 

• Animalistic arachnid: Webber has the same all fours running ability as Wilbur and wonkey, when you fight bare handed you use your claws doing double the normal amount of damage

 

• In the spirit of friendship: When dying with Webber will drop 2 spider glands, Webber can give players the shoebox and they could only use it for its calling off aggressive spider function

 

• Garden spiders:

(create three new types of switcherdoodles with corresponding new spiders)(you need to successfully harvest and collect two of the corresponding crops to unlock each recipe)(when paired with silk fashioner, you can make farm plots permanently, wet by putting sticky webbing over farm plots if you use a water can on the plot either before or after placing the sticky webbing)

Squirter:  Green Huntsman Spiders have a green grassy pattern almost akin to a watermelon, and use this as camouflage to hide in the foliage and ambush prey that wanders by. In DST, maybe they could be commanded to stay in one spot with lots of plants. When you check in on them later, they may give you some morsels or meat, letting you have a share of whatever animals they were catching offscreen. Their switcherdoodle could be made from watermelons, like the pattern on their abdomen. Attacks by shooting water out its mouth that can also water crops

Switcherdoodle: 3 monster meat, 2 silk, 2 watermelon (20dmg, 200hp)

 

Hydrolysis spider: Black Widows are an infamously venomous spider, able to paralyze and even LIQUEFY their prey, which ranges from small insects all the way to larger animals like lizards and snakes. Coincidentally, the appearance of their eggs is often compared to garlic cloves! In DST, this paralyzation could be implemented in many ways, the easiest being putting mobs to sleep for a few seconds, allowing the other spiders a chance to heal and get in a bunch of damage before they wake back up, with a heavy cooldown following that so they can't just put a mob to sleep over and over. Their switcherdoodle could be made from garlic, like how their eggs look. It can fertilize crops with the liquid remains

Switcherdoodle: 2 monster meat, 3 silk, 2 garlic (20dmg, 400hp)

 

: Orb Weavers are commonly found on garden plants, and build large circular webs to catch pests. In DST, maybe they could make webs in your gardens to trap the Lord of the Fruit Flies, or even Brightshades? Their switcherdoodle could be made from basically any farm plant, but I'd go with tomatoes to give those a good use as Webber, since they can't be eaten byspiders for healing like veggie-eating followers do. catch all types of bugs in orbs of web and can till (like merms can with a shoddy tool)

Switcherdoodle: 2 monster meat, 3 silk, 2 tomatoes(20dmg, 200hp)

 

 

• social hunting:  befriended/bedazzled spiders will no longer check items to see if they can eat them so now they won’t eat anything unless you feed them

 

•   Glop mastery: healing glop animation takes half as long as well as healing over time for twice the healing in total for both Webber and spiders (Webber:8hp+1hp per sec for 8 sec=16hp in total spiders: 80hp+10hp per sec for 8 sec= 160hp in total) 

 

•   Switcherdoodle stretching: efficiently use ingredients to make 3 times that amount of switcherdoodles when crafted (@Creatingabe1125’s idea)

 

• Good reputation: when befriending spiders in groups amount of spiders befriended in one feeding increases to 4-6

 

 

   

          

 Alignments:

 

Lunar spider care I: 

The cryptic founder has rewarded your curiosity by giving you the power to reveal a shattered spider’s greater potential. You can also gift your friends some temporary lunar power.

You can now give a shattered spider 2 moon glass to change them into the enlightened spider. They can bite for 20 dmg but can do a psychic attack for 30 dmg if undisturbed for 3 seconds once started and takes another 4 seconds to begin attacking again. Other enlightened spiders can join this attack to deal a stronger hit. When in a group attack, the spiders stay in the psychic state and physically attack every 3 seconds. And if 3 or more spiders join the attack, it will be an aoe attack, with more enlightened spiders increasing the range and damage of it.

You can also craft shattered web-balls with 4 moon glass and 4 silk, which will provide a 10% defense against lunary foes and 5% dmg against shadowy foes to all befriended spiders. The effect lasts for 2 minutes and has a cooldown of 4, but they’re stackable and are 1 use.

You can infuse pure brilliance into the web ball, replacing 5 dmg with 5 planar dmg for all befriended enlightened spiders.

Some other ideas are that you can craft the shattered switcherdoodle with 2 moonrock like how you can use “pig skin?” from hamlet in pig skin recipes and you’d have the recipe unlocked from the start. And befriending an enlightened spider will unlock an enlightened switcher doodle for 1 monster meat, 3 silk, and 3 moon glass.

 

Lunar spider care II: 

 

With a better feel of the moon’s power, wielding any lunar equipment will provide some sense of comfort by reducing the insanity of the world. The cryptic founder has also brightened your creative spirit and you now have the idea for a great battle caller.

When wielding 1 lunar equipment, all negative sanity auras around you and the night are reduced by 10%, 2 lunar equipment makes that 22.5%, and 3 lunar equipment makes that 33%.

You can now craft a new item at the brightsmithy called Webber’s brightle caller for 6 brightshade husks, 4 pure brilliance, 8 silk, and maybe or maybe not a beefalo horn.

The following effects last 1 minute: All spiders, including Webber and spider queens, move 20% faster, while all foes are slowed down by 33%. All non befriended nearby spider and spider queens will target what you target.

It has no durability with a 1 day cooldown, similar to the mudslingers. When used, Webber will play an animation with it, along with 3 quotes/lines that make up a compelling speech, but it sounds more soothing to non spiders, similar to a pan flute.

He can also recruit up to 2 spider queens with the spider queen instantly turning into a nest upon recruitment.

The following effects last 2 minutes: If you’ve recruited spider queens before use, 1 or 2 spider queens depending on how many you recruited, will rise from the ground as shattered queens, and has the same stats as normal spider queens, except they obey your most recent command, can summon shattered spiders, and deals 40 dmg along with 20 planar dmg. Enlightened spiders will gain 5 additional planar dmg.

 

 

shadow spider care I:

 

The shadow queen has rewarded your loyalty by granting you the darkest and most cunning of spiders. You can also gift your friends some temporary power of the shadows.

Learn to craft the shadow switcherdoodle which costs 2 monster meat, 3 silk, & 2 nightmare fuel. The shadow spider can double leap or leap mid air after leaping if the target moves. It can also teleport like normal shadows or a 20% chance after landing a hit with a leap. It’s bite is 20 but it’s damage increases by 5 per leap in a leap attack.

You can also craft shadow web-balls that cost 4 nightmare fuel and 4 silk. They provide 10% defense against shadowy foes and 5% dmg against lunary foes to all befriended spiders. The effect lasts for 2 minutes and has a cooldown of 4, but they are stackable and are 1 use.

you can infuse it with pure horror, which replaces 5 dmg with 5 planar dmg for all befriended shadow spiders.

An idea was to unlock the recipe, you’d need to find a spider with a shadow aura while insane, and that spider has a 5% chance to spawn if you haven’t unlocked the switcherdoodle. And if you befriend it, it’ll drop 1 nightmare fuel and give the switcherdoodle recipe.

 

shadow spider care II:

 

As you have gotten to understand the shadows, all shadowy equipment will be less demanding on the mind, and all shadowy creatures will seem a bit less threatening. The shadow queen has also nourished your passionate soul, and now have the idea for a soul strengthening cheer.

All shadow equipment will drain or consume 50% less sanity, & shadow creatures or shadow alligned creatures will drain 33% less sanity.

Learn to craft Flags of Rallies at the shadow plinth kit for 5 dark tatters, 4 pure horror, and 6 silk.

It works similarly to the mudslinger, and has a cooldown of 8 minutes.

It’s effects are that for 2 minutes all befriended spiders will gain buffs similar to acid rain, every befriended spider will receive 2-4 waves of +50 health with each wave every 5 seconds (they will all get the same amount of waves and the amount is random), and 5 shadow spiders charged with pure horror will be summoned and stay until they die, when Webber leaves the server, or when Webber uses the Flags of Rallies again to summon 5 new spiders.

The shadow spiders will slowly lose health when not in combat and always have 10 planar dmg on top of their usual dmg. They are not affected by buffs and totems nor do they go to travel dens, though can still be healed by nurses and by Webber.

 

Organization of skill tree:

A starter is that most of the skill tree would be in a heart shaped background with the friendship side being top left, web action being on the top right, and inner arachnid being at the bottom of the heart.

Inner arachnid:

It’s first skill would be the sleeping den buff, and then it would have 4 skills connected to it.

Below it would be the 2 healing skills. To the top left of the first skill would be no picky eater which then leads to the acid rain perk below it. To the bottom right of the first skill would be the night vision one, which then leads to the monkey like speed bonus skill.

Friendship:

It would start with the shoe box skill, then lead to the more spiders per meat skill which leads to the more switcher doodles on the top right and on the main branch to queen decorator, unbreakable friendship with a spider queen requirement next, and then to the unnatural brood and then to the carecrafts.

Web Action:

It would start with the less silk per upgrade skill, then have a side branch for social hunting which then leads to the work skill. Continuing on the main branch would be the silk fashionire, den relocater skill after, silk stitch after that, and finally the silk crafts.

Garden skills:

The garden spiders would be below the friendship branch, either connecting to the branch or require a set amount of skill and another requirement to access.

The other 2 farming skills would be below the Web action section and would work similar to the garden spiders skill.

The affinities would be at the sides or top corners outside the heart. Feel free to change it however you want, this is just a starter idea for the skill tree

[Draggofroot]

1 hour ago, Dr.Webber said:

I still got a few edits to make but Do you thing this potential skill tree is good:

 

skill tree:

 

 

(befriended nurse spider to unlock)

• Unbreakable friendship: [I THINK THIS ONE SHOULD BE QOL]

 

 

 

• Oral obliging : [This one is interesting because it makes webber's gathering better, however I think you can take it a step further and make it a structure where the spiders can put stuff in after going on a journey, the idea would be spiders automatically leave the nest to search for items and then store it in this structure. This one is nice and can definetly lead to an economically specialized webber]
     

 

 

• Silk fashioner: [I dont get what you mean by retraction, but being able to place silk "turf" wherever you want (ESPECIALLY WITHOUT DENS) would be really good for the military style, I like this one]

 

• Rapid Growth: [yeah allows for faster growth of the colony, and thus its an economy]

 

 

• Regeneration sensitization:increase stats from nurse spiders for Webber(15 hp) [MIlitary, very good, but you should say increase HEALING, just a heads up]

 

• Nocturnally adept: [This one isn't going to specialize anyone but i think it's a good general skill (but at the same time useless), i would rather make this give you full night vision, with a sanity cost ofc, but webber only has 100 sanity so idk lol]

 

• Deeper den sleeper: [i'm not particularly fond of this one, its a very useless general skill imo]

 

• No picky eater: [it's TECHNICALLY an economy skill, though it only really benefits the webber that has it and doesnt contribute to the team as a whole, plus I think you can expand this into raw meats as well]

 

• Den Relocation: [I'm not a webber player so idk how this would be useful lol sorry]

 

• Unnatural brood: [Military skill, hell yeah]

• Carecrafts :  [this would be a good economy skill, especially if everyone could use it when placed, but only the webber that has the skill should be able to pick it up]

 

Friendship bracelets: [good military skill, but its too cheap, i would sayyyy maybe the cost of a lifegiving amulet but gives you 10]

 

 

 

Totem of friendship: [sounds like military to me, but i'm not a webber main, so you'll have to consult other webber mains on if this is a good/balanced skill]

 

homemade den: [military]

Travel den: [Military skill] [also, I have a suggestion, how about a skill that lets you grow spiders to a larger size and you can put storage chests on them and they could follow you around like chester? would help with webber's gathering and thus economy]

 

• Silkcrafts:

Web net: [military skill, but kinda tramples on maxwell a bit]

 

Silk spindle: [passive silk farming hell eyahhhh, but there should be more structures that use silk, perhaps a silk wall? i dont know lol]

• Garden spider: [sounds like economy but i've forgotten how webber functions in gorge lol, make sure it doesnt trample on wormwood tho]

 

• Spider Goatherder: [Economy skill, i do wish there was more cattle farming in dst, this is a nice start]

 

• Silk stitch: [economy, hell yeah]

 

• acidophilic arachnid: [military]

 

• Queen decorator: [military skill, perhaps you could make it so they could also be mounted, and then while you ride her, you can tell her to command the spiders to attack a specific thing or go to a specific place]

 

• Animalistic arachnid: [sounds like military, I have an idea tho: how about a "back dash" that makes webber go really fast towards your mouse for a 1 tile distance, like how hornet can backdash in silksong]

 

• In the spirit of friendship: [it's military, but i dont think i like this one, its kinda useless, plus it softens up the punishment for dying so you can still kinda control your spiders even in death]

 

• Garden spiders:

 

Squirter:  [This is like the structure i was talking about earlier where spiders can store things in after going out lol, this one is an economy]

Switcherdoodle: 3 monster meat, 2 silk, 2 watermelon (20dmg, 200hp)

 

Hydrolysis spider: [economy yet military? Im not sure lol, also would this work in practice]

Switcherdoodle: 2 monster meat, 3 silk, 2 garlic (20dmg, 400hp)

 

: Orb Weavers [this one is nice, but why keep it confined to only gardens? let them wander around your base, trapping anything like hounds and crystal buzzards, this one looks like it would be military, but it's the stay-at-home lifestyle so i would lump them in with economy]

Switcherdoodle: 2 monster meat, 3 silk, 2 tomatoes(20dmg, 200hp)

 

 

• social hunting:  [sure why not, i'd say this is military]

 

•   Glop mastery: [military]

 

•   Switcherdoodle stretching: [economy]

 

• Good reputation: [I'd say economy, but its really only beneficial to military, so i would put them in the military part of the tree]

 

 

   

          

 Alignments: [both are military, which I don't really hate]

 

Organization of skill tree: I'm tired right now and can't be bothered to visualize the tree sorry, however i would say make military skills lead to military skills and economy skills lead to economy skills, and make them seperate "threads" instead of mixing em together

Not a webber main, so all i did was list out what kind of skills each one is (mil or eco?), if you want feedback on your ideas i would ask someone else
also thanks for taking the time to read my post

[Edible Coal]

what are the goals of skill tree is always a big mystery to me, expectually when each skill tree seems to have different goals in mind ,etc : small catchups with rift content, some new toys for the character, super big overall remake of the character.
not to mention not every character starts at the same power level, so they might need to spend way more points before considering other more fun and specialize skills  

[Draggofroot]

Just now, Edible Coal said:

what are the goals of skill tree is always a big mystery to me, expectually when each skill tree seems to have different goals in mind ,etc : small catchups with rift content, some new toys for the character, super big overall remake of the character.
not to mention not every character starts at the same power level, so they might need to spend way more points before considering other more fun and specialize skills  

Yeah, i think some general skills should be placed into the "vanilla" character

I think that skilltrees were added to allow for more unique characters, this is what the topic talks about when it refers to "specialization" lol. A wormwood specialized in farming and a wormwood specialized in combat for example, you know what I mean? It could also just have been added because toys and stuff, which imo are really fun but specialization should not be ignored; there's a lot of potential there!

[ShadowDuelist]

It’s too late to change EVERYTHING IMO, and given the nature of the game -you start with nothing, and you progress your way through- I still think dst perk points should have been implemented with leveling progress per game, and not as a permanent thing. 
 

At this point and given how much time skill trees take in development time, I just want some revisits during QOL updates to touch up on the perks that more or less we all agree that are useless.

[Draggofroot]

15 hours ago, ShadowDuelist said:

It’s too late to change EVERYTHING IMO, and given the nature of the game -you start with nothing, and you progress your way through- I still think dst perk points should have been implemented with leveling progress per game, and not as a permanent thing. 
 

At this point and given how much time skill trees take in development time, I just want some revisits during QOL updates to touch up on the perks that more or less we all agree that are useless.

Oh definetly not everything, most skilltrees are good in the "toys to play with" department imo, they just need more content in terms of "specialization"
especially wilson, that dude is so unvaried that the only thing that makes him unique is how ununique he is

[DegenerateFurry]

I just realized something: three out of the four skill tree-focused updates (excluding Wilson's character refresh) have had a DLC character in them.

Wormwood (DLC) + Woodie + Wolfgang.

Willow & Wigfrid.

Wurt (DLC) + Winona. 

Wendy + Wortox (DLC) + Walter. 

Therefore, we have a 75% chance of seeing Wanda in the next Skill Spotlight Update. 

[Draggofroot]

1 hour ago, DegenerateFurry said:

I just realized something: three out of the four skill tree-focused updates (excluding Wilson's character refresh) have had a DLC character in them.

Wormwood (DLC) + Woodie + Wolfgang.

Willow & Wigfrid.

Wurt (DLC) + Winona. 

Wendy + Wortox (DLC) + Walter. 

Therefore, we have a 75% chance of seeing Wanda in the next Skill Spotlight Update. 

I've heard somewhere that the devs said wanda would be the last to get a tree but i forgot where i heard that lol, I could just be hallucinating things

[DegenerateFurry]

2 minutes ago, Draggofroot said:

I've heard somewhere that the devs said wanda would be the last to get a tree but i forgot where i heard that lol, I could just be hallucinating things

I remember hearing it back in the day, but I don't think it was from an official source.