Would you perfer if wes is an actual playable character?

[shaurun]

5 hours ago, AliceShiki said:

That will never happen. Don't make bad faith statements you know are false. You're just wasting everyone's time.

Actually this happened to new players whom I introduced to the game. When they pick Wolfgang, you think for some reason they'll be fighting and use their power etc. but in fact they were in the weakest form, struggling with nightmares, and when transforming to a normal form the animation of the transformation was also killing them. So I know what I say.

5 hours ago, AliceShiki said:

If you're Guile-level of good, sure. Otherwise, he is challenging for experienced players.

It seems to me like you evaluate characters only against "boss rush challenge". For boss rushes, for sure, Wes could be more challenging than others because of longer prep and less health to make a mistake (however beefalo wins anyways)

 

But people who pick Wes are mostly not about boss rushes. They like survival aspect. The like, for example, to wait for a meteor to mine them rocks instead of mining it by hand. They like to outsmart the dogs and to swim with a west. They don't rush ruins, but approach it carefully instead. They enjoy slow pace. I wouldn't say anything of this is challenging. And I think adding a skill tree which will improve Wes will not discourage people who already play Wes, because I'm sure they won't improve his stats or make chopping faster. They'll add something else, unique, useful, interesting. Like his balloons - why not to request tot remove it "for the sake of challenge"? You protect the challenge side so much but you seem to not play Wes.

And please don't play with words. "Challenge yourself is good, proving yourself is bad". I won't even start arguing about that, it's just words juggling.

Edited December 5, 2025 by shaurun

[lovegrooove]

On 12/4/2025 at 4:19 AM, gaymime said:

you keep posting in here about how people who play wes are probably better players than the average as if it is some sort of truth and not just the feeling you get based on some unverifiable anecdotal evidence only you are privy to then get angry that people arent taking you seriously when you talk vaguely about really the good players playing as wes and contributing more than other players while at the same time blowing off other peoples' equally unverifiable anecdotal evidence of rubbish players colouring their opinions of wes for just being an opinion. you dont hold yourself to the standard you seem to be demanding of others and it comes off (at best) as being self-unaware

My words are being twisted quite a bit here. 

I didn't say that "Wes players are probably better than the average", I was arguing that a good player can be vastly more valuable to a server, even as Wes, because another person said that Wes is always a net loss for a pub server. 

I wasn't angry that people aren't taking me seriously, I was frustrated that people I quoted, just didn't answer any points I have made, but ignored them entirely or answered points I didn't address. Which makes this less of a conversation, and more of a circle-jerk.

The only statement I brushed off as opinion, was that you said "nobody is playing Wes". Which I stand by.

Treating your statement in this way might have triggered you - and I'm sorry for that. I find absolute statements like that quite ridiculous, and I might have been more demeaning than I intended, with my response there. 

But your reply is a very shallow representation of what I wrote, and you colored that out with quite a bit of imagination.

On 12/3/2025 at 9:04 PM, Cheggf said:

I don't think either of the people you're responding to are responding to you in good faith. 

Thank you. That's a good reminder to take a step back and stop. ❤️

[gaymime]

8 hours ago, AliceShiki said:

... Why wouldn't I assume you didn't try to discourage them when you just said they agreed with you about the character being cute or picking the character after you picked it. This sounds like you're actually trying to encourage them to try Wes out, not the other way around.

If you actually told them, "this is the worst character in the game and you'll probably have a terrible time playing him before you get used to the game, and you'll probably die super easily by using this character"... And they still picked Wes anyways... Then that's on them for not being very smart, but I think it's pretty safe to assume you did not say that to them based on context.

If you actually did, then... Yeah, not very smart players you were playing with.

wow. that's a major yikes from me. you need to really reflect on why you feel the need to be so aggressively toxic over people playing a videogame.  i tell people to pick the character that most speaks to them, when they pick the character i ask if they want to know about the character's ups and downs(as often as not they don't) and then i do my best to help them out while they play(even if that help is sometimes hanging back and letting them lead then picking up their stuff and carrying it back to the closest resurrection spot after they eat dirt). i don't force them to do things my way or insult them when they make choices that i dont agree with because only an absolute tool would do that. my only job is to be there to help when they need help and show them cool/interesting things as they come up.

 

also you don't seem to remember what game you are talking about. no matter what character a newbie picks they are going to die. dying is just part of the game. that is natural and normal and should not discourage someone from playing. as someone who has a touhou boss as their avatar you really should know the importance of perseverance and finding enjoyment in hard games.

 

[Cheggf]

Are we seriously trying to pretend like Wes isn't a difficult character now? Is this the new argument for why he should be ruined?

[Cuernito.]

6 hours ago, Cheggf said:

Are we seriously trying to pretend like Wes isn't a difficult character now? Is this the new argument for why he should be ruined?

isnt this post the opposite of that? i mean the post is about how wes is hard and a joke so the poll ask if that should change a little to make wes more used by the playerbase.

The main problem of wes is not the difficulty, there are some survivors that are hard but they are fun so even a noob can enjoy no matter the deaths, i have seen new players using walter, wanda, maxwell and even warly, but wes is another story, he is both hard and boring at the same time, his main thing is how he needs more time to everything, he need more hits kills anything, and this is my guess of why he is not picked often, he is hard and boring, a bad combo.

[Kaioh]

On 12/3/2025 at 1:28 PM, lovegrooove said:

The irony of my comment? I'm describing that if you're an expert player, it doesn't matter one bit which character you play, even Wes. And you say people who pick Wes are more likely to grief. What's ironic about that exactly? Griefers will also grief, no matter what character they play.

And I'm answering the specific parts of the posts I'm quoting, while you guys keep either ignoring mine, or glossing over those points, by referencing different posts you made, which I'm not referring to. 

So I get it now. Just keep complaining, and confusing personal experience with individual people, with a flaw in character design then. Have a nice day.

Huh? This is your definition of a bad player: "A bad player (at least in my definition) is somebody that stands in base, eats the fridge, and keeps asking for twigs and grass, because they're too lazy or scared to walk to the next door biome, in order to collect it themselves. They stand there doing nothing but demand stuff from other people, for 5 days straight, then get bored and disconnect." I used that very same definition to point out that bad players are more encouraged to behave like this if they pick Wes because of the debuffs Wes is handed, which is ironic because you're defending current Wes on the basis of experts playing Wes and calling out bad players when they're on different characters for doing the things you've described.

I am not sure what you're referring to when you say I'm ignoring your points. I'm addressing your core ideas (and took the opportunity to address everyone else as well) where you're defending current Wes because of pro players playing him. I'm not going to address everything minor unless it adds something meaningful to the discussion and to avoid potential red herrings which would derail the conversation. But anyways, besides that core idea being a false equivalence fallacy to begin with, the whole argument that current Wes is fine because pro players can contribute well as him is arguing from bad faith and lowkey an appeal to authority fallacy where the authority are the pro players not wanting to change Wes because they find him fine just the way he is. Using the same argument that pro players can do it so it's fine, we can justify anything, we can even discredit character rebalances and skill trees - there's no need to change characters if pro players can play the previous character instances just fine. Pro players are a very small minority of all the players, so catering exclusively to them is just nonsense and a good way to kill a game. It's very obvious Klei has realized this and they have overhauled most characters, and it's working for them, they have more players on steam than they did even during the pandemic where everything virtual saw a huge increase in traffic (character refreshes weren't the only thing doing this obviously, content updates have also contributed to this success, but the character refreshes also played a big part since they allowed more people to enjoy the game). Balancing a game around pro players is like asking a food restaurant to cater to competitive eaters: a competitive eater might want a chef to make more slimy hot dogs so they can eat them faster when they visit the chef’s restaurant. While 99% of the customers that go to the chef’s restaurant don’t wanna eat slimy hotdogs, they wanna eat good food and enjoy a pleasant ambience. Some might say Wes being weak and useless is fine because he was made as a challenge character, but DST has multiple of those - Warly, Maxwell (for his low health), Wormwood, arguably Wurt (because of her vegetarian diet...) and they can be enjoyed even by casuals not good at the game (+ they can contribute meaningfully as those characters). Wes is a hard sell with dubious perks and heavy downsides, he's just not going to speak out to many in his current form, he is not properly balanced for multiplayer.

So yes, I am not willing to argue "expert Wes players vs noob everyone else" because the argument is just bad and doesn't solve anything, it could be argued ad nauseam with no resolution in sight.

You also seem to have an issue with me considering Wes players a liability, no matter how good they are (and yes, even pro Wes players are a liability, but not in the traditional sense how bad players are by dying a lot and not contributing, they are a liability by being more time and resource demanding to do the same things as Wilson would without having any meaningful upsides to make up for this, which strains the whole team as a result - that is a liability no matter how you paint it or sugarcoat it), but when I suggest Wes should be improved in my other posts so Wes players no longer have such labels attached to them, you say nothing, which gives me nothing to work with and gives me the impression you don't want Wes to have any improvements at all. It's a bit self-defeating to fight back against ostracization and the means to prevent said ostracization both at the same time, sounds like a neverending struggle. If you want to keep Wes the exact same character because you prefer him that way, fine, that's your opinion and you're entitled to it, but don't be surprised then if others will want to exclude you from their servers for your character choices. Also, I never called Wes a "net loss" character, I called him a net negative character, because he is a character where his downsides overshadow his upsides, that's what I meant by the term net negative.

 

I will respect you for your willingness to end the argument here, so that's what I am going to do. Have a nice day

On 12/3/2025 at 3:30 PM, gaymime said:

you and i dont agree on much but on this one point we are mostly aligned. people talking about the skill of imaginary wes players isnt really doing anything to change, challenge or even recognise the actual problem put forth. people are simply not playing as wes. the important thing is to get people to play as wes not to argue that if someone were to play wes they'd probably be better than everyone else and so because only excellent players would play him he is fine actually.

 

Facts, I agree. I feel like not enough people realize DST is meant to be a multiplayer game, which changes the context of character balance a lot. Wes being trash in single player is fine since it's just a one player world, you are free to nerf yourself there however much you want without inconveniencing anyone. DST is multiplayer, which functions on the idea of cooperation (so there is a certain responsibility towards teammates, and playing a character with many downsides and a few dubious upsides is not exactly something that's responsible), there's no direct competition (unless we count PvP, but that's a very fringe concept that barely exists at all). Giving Wes valid niches would open up the character to new players and help erode the negative stereotypes surrounding this character, even if the downsides remain harsh (plus more people might be inclined to buy Wes skins, so there's that). I feel like the arguments to keep Wes the same as he is now are done just to gatekeep the character. Good thing is Klei seems to think something needs to be done with Wes since his refresh actually gave him some upsides for the first time ever, dubious as they are, which is a step in the right direction in my opinion, so there's hope for Wes.

On a completely unrelated note, this whole conversation about challenge characters just made me want to play Warly and I personally HATE his downside so much, much more so than Wes' downsides.

[gaymime]

On 12/6/2025 at 1:23 PM, Kaioh said:

Facts, I agree. I feel like not enough people realize DST is meant to be a multiplayer game, which changes the context of character balance a lot. Wes being trash in single player is fine since it's just a one player world, you are free to nerf yourself there however much you want without inconveniencing anyone..

see, here is the thing though; in solo he's not even trash. in solo he feels perfectly fine and reasonable to play because the whole universe of ds is set up for one person vs the world. his lack of bonuses are just....nothing important. without the context of other people he functions beautifully and there is no abrading feeling in playing him. in solo he is the challenge setting.

Edited January 20 by gaymime

[Kaioh]

1 hour ago, gaymime said:

see, here is the thing though; in solo he's not even trash. in solo he feels perfectly fine and reasonable to play because the whole universe of dst is set up for one person vs the world. his lack of bonuses are just....nothing important. without the context of other people he functions beautifully and there is no abrading feeling in playing him. in solo he is the challenge setting.

I can see that, some people take the self challenge further and make the game even harder on themselves because they find base Wes not challenging enough. Joeshmocool stuff did a full adventure run as Wes with 1 HP and with lights out for a reason

[AliceShiki]

On 12/5/2025 at 2:55 AM, shaurun said:

It seems to me like you evaluate characters only against "boss rush challenge". For boss rushes, for sure, Wes could be more challenging than others because of longer prep and less health to make a mistake (however beefalo wins anyways)

But people who pick Wes are mostly not about boss rushes. They like survival aspect. The like, for example, to wait for a meteor to mine them rocks instead of mining it by hand. They like to outsmart the dogs and to swim with a west. They don't rush ruins, but approach it carefully instead. They enjoy slow pace. I wouldn't say anything of this is challenging. And I think adding a skill tree which will improve Wes will not discourage people who already play Wes, because I'm sure they won't improve his stats or make chopping faster. They'll add something else, unique, useful, interesting. Like his balloons - why not to request tot remove it "for the sake of challenge"? You protect the challenge side so much but you seem to not play Wes.

Why are you assuming I am talking about boss rushes when I never said that?

Hound Waves are harder for Wes. Random Treeguards are harder for Wes. Bearger is harder for Wes. Everything is harder for Wes.

Exploring the Ruins carefully is also harder for Wes. You'll still struggle more with dealing with the spiders, the clockworks and the monkeys and whatever else you find there.

On 12/5/2025 at 2:55 AM, shaurun said:

Actually this happened to new players whom I introduced to the game. When they pick Wolfgang, you think for some reason they'll be fighting and use their power etc. but in fact they were in the weakest form, struggling with nightmares, and when transforming to a normal form the animation of the transformation was also killing them. So I know what I say.

So... You didn't tell anything to the new player about how Wolfgang functions and what they needed to do to make use of his perks? Well... Then yeah, I guess in this specific case Wolfgang may be just a bit more easy than Wes instead of 10x easier than Wes.

On 12/5/2025 at 2:55 AM, shaurun said:

And please don't play with words. "Challenge yourself is good, proving yourself is bad". I won't even start arguing about that, it's just words juggling.

Perhaps you should read the posts you're replying to before putting words in people's mouths.

I said that people challenge themselves if they find it fun to challenge themselves. This is about having fun. Not about something being good or bad. Proving yourself through a videogame is not about having fun, it's a petty thing that people who need to touch grass do.

On 12/5/2025 at 7:07 AM, gaymime said:

wow. that's a major yikes from me. you need to really reflect on why you feel the need to be so aggressively toxic over people playing a videogame.  i tell people to pick the character that most speaks to them, when they pick the character i ask if they want to know about the character's ups and downs(as often as not they don't) and then i do my best to help them out while they play(even if that help is sometimes hanging back and letting them lead then picking up their stuff and carrying it back to the closest resurrection spot after they eat dirt). i don't force them to do things my way or insult them when they make choices that i dont agree with because only an absolute tool would do that. my only job is to be there to help when they need help and show them cool/interesting things as they come up.

also you don't seem to remember what game you are talking about. no matter what character a newbie picks they are going to die. dying is just part of the game. that is natural and normal and should not discourage someone from playing. as someone who has a touhou boss as their avatar you really should know the importance of perseverance and finding enjoyment in hard games.

I have no idea what you found toxic about it, but you just confirmed that you didn't discourage them about picking the worst character in the game and didn't even try encouraging them to pick a beginner-friendly character before exploring others, so... You just confirmed my assumption that you tried to deny here with vaguely unclear words that didn't actually deny it, yet were clearly trying to deny it based on context: 

So... Yeah, no clue about why you even tried to deny it there.

I never said anything about insulting them because they made a bad decision, I just said that you didn't try to discourage them before making a bad decision, which you just confirmed that you didn't do. You just didn't give them advice that they would be better off having, that's all.

... I have no idea why you're saying that I don't remember what I'm talking about, when you're the one who tried to deny something one page ago, and now decided to just admit that the denial was for nothing. Yes, dying as a new player is normal, that doesn't mean that it's not a good idea for a veteran player to try minimizing the risks of dying for a new player... Especially when that risk involves using the hardest character in the game that will most likely lead to an unfun experience to them.

As for the Touhou comparison... Last I checked, the usual recommendations people give for "Touhou Games to start out are 6, 7, 8 and 10", because those happen to be the easiest games. Nobody recommends 11 or 15, because those games are hellish to get through, so... Yeah, I have no idea what you're on about. Veteran players usually recommend new players to start with the easiest stuff and then move on to the harder stuff as they feel more comfortable with the game. That's just normal. You're the one who didn't point to the new players that Wes is a challenge character, then proceeded to try denying it, then proceeded to just admit it and waste everyone's time in the process.

... What even is this discussion, geez?

On 12/5/2025 at 2:24 PM, NekoSoulx said:

isnt this post the opposite of that? i mean the post is about how wes is hard and a joke so the poll ask if that should change a little to make wes more used by the playerbase.

Here: 

 

[gaymime]

1 hour ago, AliceShiki said:

I have no idea what you found toxic about it, but you just confirmed that you didn't discourage them about picking the worst character in the game and didn't even try encouraging them to pick a beginner-friendly character before exploring others, so... You just confirmed my assumption that you tried to deny here with vaguely unclear words that didn't actually deny it, yet were clearly trying to deny it based on context: 

So... Yeah, no clue about why you even tried to deny it there.

I never said anything about insulting them because they made a bad decision, I just said that you didn't try to discourage them before making a bad decision, which you just confirmed that you didn't do. You just didn't give them advice that they would be better off having, that's all.

... I have no idea why you're saying that I don't remember what I'm talking about, when you're the one who tried to deny something one page ago, and now decided to just admit that the denial was for nothing. Yes, dying as a new player is normal, that doesn't mean that it's not a good idea for a veteran player to try minimizing the risks of dying for a new player... Especially when that risk involves using the hardest character in the game that will most likely lead to an unfun experience to them.

As for the Touhou comparison... Last I checked, the usual recommendations people give for "Touhou Games to start out are 6, 7, 8 and 10", because those happen to be the easiest games. Nobody recommends 11 or 15, because those games are hellish to get through, so... Yeah, I have no idea what you're on about. Veteran players usually recommend new players to start with the easiest stuff and then move on to the harder stuff as they feel more comfortable with the game. That's just normal. You're the one who didn't point to the new players that Wes is a challenge character, then proceeded to try denying it, then proceeded to just admit it and waste everyone's time in the process.

... What even is this discussion, geez?

Here: 

 

read posts before you reply to posts.

[AliceShiki]

24 minutes ago, gaymime said:

read posts before you reply to posts.

Oh... Okay.

Guess I should just take Cheggf's advice to heart, then. This discussion was a waste of time.

Edited December 6, 2025 by AliceShiki

[Spicybullfrog]

yea, i think that wes should be his own character purely because i think that wes' downsides should just be a hard mode you can select in the menu. the problem with playing wes isnt that hes hard, the problem with playing wes is that you cant have any character perks and have to play vanilla wilson without the beard. if you could play a character with real upsides and downsides along with the challenge modifiers, it could breathe new life into the game for some people.

[GamePlayer42]

On 12/4/2025 at 2:18 AM, SapoLover said:

The idea of Wes having perks that on surface level are disadvantages but having a super secret upside you can take advantage of with enough experience is my favorite. Problem is... I can't come with any examples. So... nevermind I was here-

i second this!

[Mysterious box]

Probably a bit of a hot take as I didn't really read through all the comments but post refresh Wes did provide team value it's just it was never really explained in game and needed people other people to willing participate though skill tree skills made these contributions non existent. His party balloons are a free source of infinite sanity that scales off of the number of people who are standing within the confetti this however is massively overshadowed by Willow's fireball. Speedy balloon is a short lived discount walking cane that also doubles as a flare for your team to rally on if they get lost at the low cost of sanity which again is techinically a infinite resource however it's also overshadowed but this time by Woodie's walking stick. The balloon hat recovers a small amount of sanity and prevents lightning strikes. The balloon vest well that one is obvious. 

 

When his skill tree comes it should keep a similar idea smaller boons at a low investment.

[AliceShiki]

17 hours ago, Spicybullfrog said:

yea, i think that wes should be his own character purely because i think that wes' downsides should just be a hard mode you can select in the menu. the problem with playing wes isnt that hes hard, the problem with playing wes is that you cant have any character perks and have to play vanilla wilson without the beard. if you could play a character with real upsides and downsides along with the challenge modifiers, it could breathe new life into the game for some people.

Tbf, I wouldn't mind it being something configurable in the settings instead of a character thingy. Could be fun to have Wes nerfs applied to anyone you wanted~

[slendyproject]

A lot of games had to figure out the challenge character, and I feel like its been done better plenty of times than wes. I personally really like the approach that the binding of isaac takes with its challange characters. They tend to have unique, transformative, downsides *and* upsides. Those characters are appealing even if you arent good at the game because they provide a unique experience and because they are still good at certain things. They force you to utilize the upsides to not get completely crippled by the downsides.

The inherent problem with wes is he is difficult in the most boring ways possible. The people who like him cant let go of taking skill into the discussion because the truth is there is basically nothing appealing about wes's upsides or downsides. The downsides are the most obvious stat decreases one could come up with, but at least they also make the game boring by forcing you to chop and mine even slower. His upsides basically boil down to a different version of woodies walking canes. The only thing appealing about his mechanics is being challenged not what the actual challenge is. I often want to play the challenge characters in isaac not because I want to be challenged but because they are fun. I dont think I will ever feel the urge to play a character that is just lower stats: the character.

If people are gonna rag on wolfgangs design as a character, then they should be just as mad at wes. Both of them accomplish the basic goal of what they set out to do but neither is inspired work.

 

For a few random ideas for things that could be done with him:

If wes ever hits zero sanity a unique nightmare mini giant will spawn instead of regular nightmares. This enemy will not despawn or deaggro until wes kills it even if his sanity was restored somehow. It drops more nightmare fuel than the regular nightmares.

Instead of wes just being worse at fighting and working, what if he was much more inefficent if he isnt using the right tool for the job? For example what if he couldnt damage treeguards at all except with axes? What if he had an even more extreme damage penalty against shadows unless he is using magical or lunar weapons? What if his work penalty lessened the better the tool he is using? It would be more interesting if he needed to juggle more tools and items than others instead of just doing everything slower.

Wes is a mime, so he should have a sanity aura for other players (as long as he is not engaged in fighting or working). But performing for others also drains his sanity and the effect stacks the more players are around him.

Nightmare hands will now sometimes attempt to steal items from his inventory instead of putting out fires.

Whenever a meteor shower happens in the world a single meteor will attempt to hit wes no matter where he is as long as he isnt near player built structures.

He should naturally taunt bosses occasionally. Taunted bosses will target and deal much more damage to him specifically. Maybe bosses should even get unique attacks that they will only use against wes.

I did my best to make these example ideas have small built in upsides. Basically wes should be uniquely bad at things, instead of "insert percentage" worse at everything. Most players who enjoy dont starve enjoy difficulty to some extent, this is a notoriously unforgiving game. The fact that wes is not appealing to playerbase like that means he is doing a bad job of being fun even if he technically is doing a fine job of being difficult.

[gaymime]

2 hours ago, slendyproject said:

A lot of games had to figure out the challenge character, and I feel like its been done better plenty of times than wes. I personally really like the approach that the binding of isaac takes with its challange characters. They tend to have unique, transformative, downsides *and* upsides. Those characters are appealing even if you arent good at the game because they provide a unique experience and because they are still good at certain things. They force you to utilize the upsides to not get completely crippled by the downsides.

The inherent problem with wes is he is difficult in the most boring ways possible. The people who like him cant let go of taking skill into the discussion because the truth is there is basically nothing appealing about wes's upsides or downsides. The downsides are the most obvious stat decreases one could come up with, but at least they also make the game boring by forcing you to chop and mine even slower. His upsides basically boil down to a different version of woodies walking canes. The only thing appealing about his mechanics is being challenged not what the actual challenge is. I often want to play the challenge characters in isaac not because I want to be challenged but because they are fun. I dont think I will ever feel the urge to play a character that is just lower stats: the character.

If people are gonna rag on wolfgangs design as a character, then they should be just as mad at wes. Both of them accomplish the basic goal of what they set out to do but neither is inspired work.

 

For a few random ideas for things that could be done with him:

If wes ever hits zero sanity a unique nightmare mini giant will spawn instead of regular nightmares. This enemy will not despawn or deaggro until wes kills it even if his sanity was restored somehow. It drops more nightmare fuel than the regular nightmares.

Instead of wes just being worse at fighting and working, what if he was much more inefficent if he isnt using the right tool for the job? For example what if he couldnt damage treeguards at all except with axes? What if he had an even more extreme damage penalty against shadows unless he is using magical or lunar weapons? What if his work penalty lessened the better the tool he is using? It would be more interesting if he needed to juggle more tools and items than others instead of just doing everything slower.

Wes is a mime, so he should have a sanity aura for other players (as long as he is not engaged in fighting or working). But performing for others also drains his sanity and the effect stacks the more players are around him.

Nightmare hands will now sometimes attempt to steal items from his inventory instead of putting out fires.

Whenever a meteor shower happens in the world a single meteor will attempt to hit wes no matter where he is as long as he isnt near player built structures.

He should naturally taunt bosses occasionally. Taunted bosses will target and deal much more damage to him specifically. Maybe bosses should even get unique attacks that they will only use against wes.

I did my best to make these example ideas have small built in upsides. Basically wes should be uniquely bad at things, instead of "insert percentage" worse at everything. Most players who enjoy dont starve enjoy difficulty to some extent, this is a notoriously unforgiving game. The fact that wes is not appealing to playerbase like that means he is doing a bad job of being fun even if he technically is doing a fine job of being difficult.

i really like your enthusiasm but could i say a couple things?

first it is auto-execution where he is slower, if you manually chop or mine he goes fast just like anyone else(except woodie whose auto and manual chop is bonkers fast) and his "slowness" is just down to whether your fingers or the other guy's fingers are better at clicking the mouse

second, wes has a very low health pool at 75, when wes is at max health WITH standard armours most boss attacks will either knock him down to only a handful of health points or kill him instantly. having "extra" damage would not really affect gameplay for wes players so it would be more work for virtually no payoff for them. that being said, while functionally 1 or 2 hits going to just 1 hit isnt really going to change the fight for a wes player it is going to encourage people to do what they do in other games with a no-hit character; they will refuse that character healing and armour based on "group efficiency". i REALLY dont want the wow healer problem of people screaming at wes for "wasting" health items or armour and trying to steal his or going into forums and complaining that wes players are ungrateful wasters. it was gross then it would be gross now.

third...i feel having an aggroing move that the player cant control would be a liability in all situations; it would make it very difficult for wes in a group unless he was already the bait(something usually reserved for the tank or the fastest character) while also discouraging wes players themselves from wanting to participate since they could be pulled from whatever task they are currently doing and break the team's flow by aggroing the boss regardless of if that was their job or not. in particular i have been the axe guy for toad & misery toad countless times but that would get pretty borked if i could not reliably chop trees without a random animation going off mid-chop so my partner/s have to either try to take my place chopping or trying to get toad aggroed back onto themselves. this would also be a problem if you play solo and use mobs; if the boss wont stay with the mobs then mobs become a lot less viable for that character, additionally even you dont use mobs you have to live with the fact that no matter how skilful you get there will inevitably be a moment when you are forced by the game to take a hit and, most likely, immediately eat a death. that kind of penalty is not only super unfun but it is unfair in a way that would direct ire right on to klei's backs for "cheating"

lastly this is just a personal thing but people currently trash wes way way waaaay more than wolfgang so that was a weird thing you said there. not sure why you said that.

Edited December 12, 2025 by gaymime
left out a word

[Nikki Darks]

After reading through the replies, I grow fonder and fonder of the idea of Wes having useful skills + harsh downsides instead of just downsides.

As long as the downsides are impactful enough to overshadow the upsides, because what's the point in having a "challenge" character if their upsides are more impactful than their downsides? Mostly because having strong upsides can lead to ways of avoiding downsides, kinda like how Wendy does 25% less damage but has a myriad of ways to bypass that, or how Wigfrid can only eat meat, yet she has premium combat perks and sanity/health regen built into her perks.

[slendyproject]

3 hours ago, gaymime said:

i really like your enthusiasm but could i say a couple things?

Good points. My comment was getting really long but I am aware that some of these would not work the way I wrote them down, I just wanted to communicate the general idea that a character that provides a challenge doesnt need to be as boring as wes is. 

Regarding the wolfgang comment, I feel like I still often see people mention his skill tree and sometimes even the base mechanics. I just wanted to point out the fact that discussions about wes get drowned in arguments about individual player skill levels, which obscures the fact that his design is just as uninspired as wolfgangs is which in my eyes is a problem. Also wes should be more discussed than wolfgang is because his skilltree is still yet to be released so people should communicate and talk about what they want to see from it. The ship has kinda sailed for wolfgang unless the devs are willing to revisit him but that might open a can of worms of every single skill tree being nitpicked to oblivion.