Not A Fan Of Scion

[Waywarbler]

8 hours ago, Ohan said:

The way you have to keep scion around the edges of the arena at all times and make it slam towards the edges just so the arena doesnt get completely covered by the creep feels so clunky and looks unintentional, like making FW’s bone cage bug out by hugging the pillars. 

Didn't feel like that to me personally. I got bowled over by the Scion going in blind, and when I saw how people were dealing with the electric floor, I was like "ooohhh that's what I was missing" rather than seeing it as some kind of exploit.

The Celestial Scion doesn't feel clunky to me, it just feels kind of empty. There's not a whole lot going on, and this is coming from someone who likes the fight (although I like WARBOT a lot more).

[hyoton123]

27 minutes ago, SilverSpoon said:

Then please tell me only this. Am I saying incorrect in terms of English grammar? I'm not a native speaker, after all.

Truthfully, I wouldnt take the marketing blurb for the game too seriously. It’s just meant to get you to buy it and not to be a design philosophy.

[SilverSpoon]

12 minutes ago, hyoton123 said:

Truthfully, I wouldnt take the marketing blurb for the game too seriously. It’s just meant to get you to buy it and not to be a design philosophy.

I don't know that is true, but now I'm asking if I'm making a grammatical mistake, especially to them.

Edit: Um, I didn't really want to answer this because it's off-topic for this thread, but I think it's not good to advertise blurb that's different from the actual design philosophy.

Edited August 19, 2025 by SilverSpoon

[hyoton123]

14 minutes ago, SilverSpoon said:

I don't know that is true, but now I'm asking if I'm making a grammatical mistake, especially to them.

Edit: Um, I didn't really want to answer this because it's off-topic for this thread, but I think it's not good to advertise blurb that's different from the actual design philosophy.

I’m just saying, at this point, that as a native english speaker, it’s meant to get you interested to buy DST and isnt meant to be parsed apart to make a statement  on the past or future of DST. Like the order of things listed in the blurb says nothing about DST’s priorities. It’s just there to get your attention.

[Maxil20]

Scion to me suffers from a very similar issue fuelweaver has; I think both are mechanically designed very well, but get like an F in terms of players trying to understand the fights (and losing horribly).

I genuinely think Scion is a pretty good fight with a variety of counters available, but the problem is learning those outside of trying the fight in a test world is extremely difficult. The case most have is messing up a Slam Once and having the entire arena get engulfed. That leaves a very bad first impression to most players, and then it doesn't help how learning the counters is hard as well (did you know that because the scion has no collision box, a viable strat to "dodge" the slam is to wait for it to just start it's windup animation and go through it, compared to walking around it when it starts the slam?).

The main gripe I do think is fair, though, is just how screwed you can get by having WARBOT die near the edge and then being forced to work around a much more unforgiving setup to dodge the nova. I do feel it would be better if the legs were much more biased to landing in the center when it is far enough away from it, since the alternative is tanking the novas with brightshade armor and healing (which, well, doesn't exactly feel good...)

[Evelo]

5 hours ago, SilverSpoon said:

Then please tell me only this. Am I saying incorrect in terms of English grammar?

You are not wrong, that version of the word fight is correct in meaning of "combat" however I focus more on the other part of the sentence as it states it is a standalone multiplayer expansion to the survival game. It expands upon, it doesn't change. The survival hasn't changed only gets new things. The combat hasn't changed only got new things. While this isn't true with everything of course, for example, farming was dramatically changed in the RWYS update, I bought DST when it came out and was simply Don't Starve solo but with Multiplayer. The game is still Don't Starve solo, but with multiplayer, and more boss fights. Which given my original interest in the Don't Starve series stemmed from survival, I was expecting more survival content to be added in the Reign of Giants worlds instead of separate regions as seen with Shipwrecked and Hamlet.

Both of which are good expansions, I just prefer the Reign of Giants setting that Don't Starve Together sets itself in. I like a lot about Shipwrecked and wished a lot of the survival aspects were brought over to DST, I just found the islands to be annoying rather than enjoyable. I haven't played Hamlet because by the time it came out I stopped playing Don't Starve and only came back a few months before RWYS and had already owned DST and figured I could just play that instead.

It's not wrong to enjoy DST as it is now, it just has gone in a direction I am not a fan of since I purchased the game a long long time ago.

 

[SilverSpoon]

 

1 hour ago, Evelo said:

You are not wrong, that version of the word fight is correct in meaning of "combat" however I focus more on the other part of the sentence as it states it is a standalone multiplayer expansion to the survival game. It expands upon, it doesn't change. The survival hasn't changed only gets new things. The combat hasn't changed only got new things. While this isn't true with everything of course, for example, farming was dramatically changed in the RWYS update, I bought DST when it came out and was simply Don't Starve solo but with Multiplayer. The game is still Don't Starve solo, but with multiplayer, and more boss fights. Which given my original interest in the Don't Starve series stemmed from survival, I was expecting more survival content to be added in the Reign of Giants worlds instead of separate regions as seen with Shipwrecked and Hamlet.

Both of which are good expansions, I just prefer the Reign of Giants setting that Don't Starve Together sets itself in. I like a lot about Shipwrecked and wished a lot of the survival aspects were brought over to DST, I just found the islands to be annoying rather than enjoyable. I haven't played Hamlet because by the time it came out I stopped playing Don't Starve and only came back a few months before RWYS and had already owned DST and figured I could just play that instead.

It's not wrong to enjoy DST as it is now, it just has gone in a direction I am not a fan of since I purchased the game a long long time ago.

6 hours ago, hyoton123 said:

I’m just saying, at this point, that as a native english speaker, it’s meant to get you interested to buy DST and isnt meant to be parsed apart to make a statement  on the past or future of DST. Like the order of things listed in the blurb says nothing about DST’s priorities. It’s just there to get your attention.

Okay, I get what you’re saying. First off, I apologize for saying like picking a quarrel when I should be constructive.

I’ve been around since solo Don’t Starve back when Shipwrecked was added, and my takeaway is that "Fight, Farm, Build" and "survival" seriously couldn't get along very well. People who love fight don’t want to be interrupted mid-fight by freezing, heatstroke, or other mechanics, and people who love farming and building intensely hate their bases destroyed. And maybe because devs have to sell skins, survival somethings have to be put on the back burner. The devs are probably struggling to balance those tensions. However, I think that DST has still mostly managed to sit in a sweet spot where everyone can coexist. (Moonstorm fire is not, so that’s why I’m angry.)

My personally thought, my prefer depends on the day. Sometimes I want to fight, sometimes I want to build, sometimes I want the survival. But what my most favorite is helping someone with something they want to do. And my most favorite point of DST is being freedom to do any of that. I get that, from survivalist perspective, "being able to turn survival things off when you don’t feel like it" sounds like just coddling. But if game imposes survival something on everyone all the time, a ton of players would end up miserable. I’m convinced toggles for survival features are now essential.

Along those lines, I’ve suggested things like "Survival island with special rules", "Survival boss that isn’t a fight but a set of tasks like The Gorge", "Survival altar you activate that spawns threats in the area while it’s on, with rewards scaling to how long you keep it running." I think that proposing something that let people who enjoy survival and people who don’t both be satisfied and coexist seems like the fastest path to adding more survival to DST.

However, I think this is getting off topic, so I will refrain from my commenting any further.

Edited August 19, 2025 by SilverSpoon

[Edible Coal]

21 hours ago, SilverSpoon said:

Requiring resource grinding just to fight the boss fairly is actually Bad design. I like Scion fight, but I don't like having to grind Mushy Cakes or Moon Shrooms just to deal with grogginess and just to fight him fairly. Regarding AFW, if you unless have The Lazy Explorer or use what I don't know the details whatever totally not intuitive method, it won't be even fight.

 

do people just want every boss beatable with a hambat and a walking cane? i think is nice that a boss that can be made easier if you have the right tools

Edited August 20, 2025 by Edible Coal

[Cruvimaster]

23 hours ago, Uedo said:

I think Scion, specifically, is lazy. 

I see it differently. Let me explain. The most dangerous bosses go beyond just dealing powerful attack damage. AFW, for example, has relatively low health but has the ability to regenerate (the best boss design in my opinion) and a shield that grants temporary invincibility. Old Crab King couldn't deal direct damage to the player, and he didn't even kill the player (I thought that was incredible: extremely dangerous without even hitting the player). The Scion does have high direct damage, but that's not his problem, but rather the ground damage. For me, the Scion is a smart, not lazy, design. I don't like bosses that are "more of the same" as we already have. That said, it's boring to have to face Frostjaw and the Scrappy Werepig (but I perfectly understand the reason they are like that, and I won't call it "bad design" just because I don't like it).

For me, there's one thing I don't like about the Celestial Champion's design. The player dies, and the boss just stands there, unable to reset its health or even begin the regeneration process. The upside is being able to face it multiple times in a row.

Edited August 20, 2025 by Cruvimaster

[Uedo]

1 hour ago, Cruvimaster said:

I see it differently. Let me explain. The most dangerous bosses go beyond just dealing powerful attack damage. AFW, for example, has relatively low health but has the ability to regenerate (the best boss design in my opinion) and a shield that grants temporary invincibility. Old Crab King couldn't deal direct damage to the player, and he didn't even kill the player (I thought that was incredible: extremely dangerous without even hitting the player). The Scion does have high direct damage, but that's not his problem, but rather the ground damage. For me, the Scion is a smart, not lazy, design. I don't like bosses that are "more of the same" as we already have. That said, it's boring to have to face Frostjaw and the Scrappy Werepig (but I perfectly understand the reason they are like that, and I won't call it "bad design" just because I don't like it).

For me, there's one thing I don't like about the Celestial Champion's design. The player dies, and the boss just stands there, unable to reset its health or even begin the regeneration process. The upside is being able to face it multiple times in a row.

I completely accept that you find it the way you do. On paper it looks quite complicated right? I still feel comparatively that is IS lazy design. Not as a golden standard of lazy design, but compared to some other bosses that are better.

Ultimately, for me I feel strongly about the design, implementation and introduction to the game. It's really starting to jump the shark, therefore I feel it's lazy.

If you wanted to substitute the word lazy for haphazard, that might satisfy you more.

1 hour ago, Cruvimaster said:

 (but I perfectly understand the reason they are like that, and I won't call it "bad design" just because I don't like it).

I did clarify points like this in the last post - Nobody has said they think something is bad design just because they don't like it. 
You really need to accept that people feel differently to you, it's frustrating.

I think it's bad design and that is why I don't like it. I like the pearl stuff, I like the island, I like the set-up. I do not like the design of the boss from a mechanical and thematic standpoint. 

If you keep dismissing other peoples views because it's easier to just think of those disagreeing with you as having some weird grudge, that's fine, but that's a you thing. I believe you feel the way you do, do you believe me that I feel the way I do @Cruvimaster?

[Tigris Nano]

Just did it as Wanda (all times I did it before were as Wortox) and that was really scary. My heart was beating fast and loud just because I was afraid of losing. I actually messed up once and evaded to safe spot with healing clocks but on 2nd try I did it.

It keeps you in constant stress of messing up even once and this is cool thing. You cant leave as all but 1 character so you either kill or get killed and let scion regen. And even if you can, dot floor and supernova still burns your health insanely so if you mess up once you may get cooked. Those factors build up fear of defeat on one hand and hope that it dies soon on other one. And when it dies you feel a huge feeling of relief as you did something really hard. 

While its great fight because of all emotions I endure during it, I still think some things should be re-adjusted.

Dash dmg could get decreased to slightly more forgiving numbers especially taking into account that it sometimes might hit you twice per dash. Currently its 60+ or 120+ dmg for void hood which I used to have fine dmg with reaper and gloomerang. It leaves chars like wes / maxwell / walter in critical state and even instagibs elder wanda.

Dot floor and supernova dmg values also could be made more forgiving as well. I stepped/telepoofed on it several times to have some arena space left and it turned my twenties (did warbot without any dmg taken) into almost elder age. It burns your hp really quick especially if you dont have lunar gear / lunar affinity which make things not so bad. Not mentioning cases where you mess up a bit or server lags and you get knocked into that area with slam so you have to get up and tp while taking that dmg.

And last adjustment is letting players escape, rest and reprepare after they defeat warbot. For some players (and even me when I fought that thing for first time) warbot could be difficult and exhausting fight so I think it would be good to let players take their breath before scion fight. 

[Cruvimaster]

5 hours ago, Uedo said:

I completely accept that you find it the way you do. On paper it looks quite complicated right? I still feel comparatively that is IS lazy design. Not as a golden standard of lazy design, but compared to some other bosses that are better.

Ultimately, for me I feel strongly about the design, implementation and introduction to the game. It's really starting to jump the shark, therefore I feel it's lazy.

If you wanted to substitute the word lazy for haphazard, that might satisfy you more.

I did clarify points like this in the last post - Nobody has said they think something is bad design just because they don't like it. 
You really need to accept that people feel differently to you, it's frustrating.

I think it's bad design and that is why I don't like it. I like the pearl stuff, I like the island, I like the set-up. I do not like the design of the boss from a mechanical and thematic standpoint. 

If you keep dismissing other peoples views because it's easier to just think of those disagreeing with you as having some weird grudge, that's fine, but that's a you thing. I believe you feel the way you do, do you believe me that I feel the way I do @Cruvimaster?

 

First, I'd like to remind you that no boss was added to the game without the community's participation in the BETA program. It was no different with WARBOT and Scion. It's unfair, to say the least, for a community member to show up after the beta is over and then complain that the developers' work was poorly done or lazy, even though this critic failed to contribute at the appropriate time.

There are also those who participated in the beta and weren't met by the devs. These people often feel resentful and hurt, and whenever a thread about the subject opens, they appear to belittle the devs' work.

I understand that the devs should be strictly restrictive in making any changes to something that was extensively discussed and tested in the beta.

[Chewabacca]

19 minutes ago, Cruvimaster said:

First, I'd like to remind you that no boss was added to the game without the community's participation in the BETA program. It was no different with WARBOT and Scion. It's unfair, to say the least, for a community member to show up after the beta is over and then complain that the developers' work was poorly done or lazy, even though this critic failed to contribute at the appropriate time.

There are also those who participated in the beta and weren't met by the devs. These people often feel resentful and hurt, and whenever a thread about the subject opens, they appear to belittle the devs' work.

I understand that the devs should be strictly restrictive in making any changes to something that was extensively discussed and tested in the beta.

I have no opinion one way or the other on Scion, but it was in beta for a single week before the update went live. The last change made to it was added the day before release. Claiming that it was "extensively discussed and tested" in such a small window of time is strange. 

[Cruvimaster]

32 minutes ago, Chewabacca said:

I have no opinion one way or the other on Scion, but it was in beta for a single week before the update went live. The last change made to it was added the day before release. Claiming that it was "extensively discussed and tested" in such a small window of time is strange. 

And this week, all the points discussed here were discussed there. Just look at the threads "Celestial Scion is way too difficult.", "celestial scions ground attack.", "The Scion is too slow.". What has changed from that time to now?

[Uedo]

1 hour ago, Cruvimaster said:

There are also those who participated in the beta and weren't met by the devs. These people often feel resentful and hurt, and whenever a thread about the subject opens, they appear to belittle the devs' work.

Sure whatever you want man, thanks for your time anyhow. But please stop applying your own judgements onto why people have their views. 

You have a very good idea as to why people have criticisms, they've explained them. Stop deliberately misunderstanding to make your point seem stronger, we both know the salient facts, so I don't appreciate playing this game of 'I just don't understand why they're upset - Must be a grudge/ancient blood feud'. 

Edited August 20, 2025 by Uedo

[Hungry French]

1 hour ago, Cruvimaster said:

 

Во-первых, я хотел бы напомнить вам, что ни один босс не был добавлен в игру без участия сообщества в программе бета-тестирования. То же самое было с WARBOT и Scion. По меньшей мере несправедливо, когда участник сообщества появляется после завершения бета-тестирования и жалуется на то, что разработчики плохо поработали или поленились, хотя сам этот критик не внес свой вклад в нужное время.

Есть и те, кто участвовал в бета-тестировании, но не был замечен разработчиками. Эти люди часто испытывают обиду и боль, и всякий раз, когда поднимается эта тема, они принижают заслуги разработчиков.

«To beta or not to beta, that is the question»

 

[Uedo]

1 hour ago, Cruvimaster said:

 

First, I'd like to remind you that no boss was added to the game without the community's participation in the BETA program. It was no different with WARBOT and Scion. It's unfair, to say the least, for a community member to show up after the beta is over and then complain that the developers' work was poorly done or lazy, even though this critic failed to contribute at the appropriate time.

So, let's break it down then, so I can really understand you.

Why is it unfair for a player to show up after the beta is over and then complain that the developers work was poorly done or lazy?

What is the appropriate time for feedback and why?

What if the person feels that it is poorly done or lazy? What feedback should they give? Should they lie and say it's great?

What opinions of the boss are allowed after the beta window and why is that so?

If you can give me the why's i'll at least understand you more, I won't necessarily agree with you - but i'd get why you're asserting these rules I didn't know existed?

[Cruvimaster]

6 minutes ago, Uedo said:

Sure whatever you want man, thanks for your time anyhow. But please stop applying your own judgements onto why people have their views. 

You have a very good idea as to why people have criticisms, they've explained them. Stop deliberately misunderstanding to make your point seem stronger, we both know the salient facts, so I don't appreciate playing this game of 'I just don't understand why they're upset - Must be a grudge/ancient blood feud'. 

Okay. Let's be objective. We had a beta, an update, and another beta. Where were you during this period without contributing to the development of the bosses? Now, should the devs halt all content development because you couldn't defeat the boss?

Just now, Hungry French said:

«To beta or not to beta, that is the question»

 

I would add: a beta, an update, and another beta. 

[Uedo]

7 minutes ago, Cruvimaster said:

Okay. Let's be objective. We had a beta, an update, and another beta. Where were you during this period without contributing to the development of the bosses? c

I defeated the boss :s 

Again with your random judgements man, let it go. Move on with your day.

'Now, should the devs halt all content development because you couldn't defeat the boss?' I genuinely think you don't know what you're arguing with me, i've never advocated for any type of change or anything, i'm regretful of how it ended up.

I'm not going to lie, that's really irritating that you literally don't know what you're discussing with me, or what i've ACTUALLY said. 
Not cool man, that's not nice.

Edited August 20, 2025 by Uedo

[NoKrampusSack]

Boss with Arena Changing properties that doesn't change attack patterns after Altering the arena
Klei I beg.

[Bellium]

On 8/19/2025 at 3:51 PM, SilverSpoon said:

Requiring resource grinding just to fight the boss fairly is actually Bad design.

It's a survival game, needing to gather resources to take on fights/ challanges beyond not dying at base is a core principle. This is like complaining about needing to reload in a shooter.

Edited August 22, 2025 by Bellium

[Bumber64]

15 minutes ago, Bellium said:

It's a survival game, needing to gather resources to take on fights/ challanges beyond not dying at base is a core principle. This is like complaining about needing to reload in a shooter.

It's like spending more time looking for the enemy than actually shooting and being shot at. There aren't any serious threats present by the time you're ready to gather the resources, so you aren't even being shot at as you reload. Too few opponents on the server.

Edited August 22, 2025 by Bumber64

[Hungry French]

2 hours ago, Bumber64 said:

It's like spending more time looking for the enemy than actually shooting and being shot at. There aren't any serious threats present by the time you're ready to gather the resources, so you aren't even being shot at as you reload. Too few opponents on the server.

Because the Klei allows you to destroy the spawners. It's a good thing that at least their hands didn't reach shadow spawners in ruins and bat caves...

Klei is given too much freedom. The possibility of terraforming the entire environment into a favorable world is not cool. Yes, mega-basing is cool in its own way, but there must be a separate creative mode for this...

Edited August 22, 2025 by Hungry French

[Hungry French]

Seriously, if you try to play without replanting plants or destroying spawners, the game feels completely different. Almost as good as the first hours in the game...

[Maxil20]

1 hour ago, Hungry French said:

Because the Klei allows you to destroy the spawners. It's a good thing that at least their hands didn't reach shadow spawners in ruins and bat caves...

Klei is given too much freedom. The possibility of terraforming the entire environment into a favorable world is not cool. Yes, mega-basing is cool in its own way, but there must be a separate creative mode for this...

I don’t really think there’s many problems with that. Terraforming a biome alone is a lot of effort, and most spawners you can break will put up a fight before destroying them. Most people opt to never do this because its much easier to make a small but comfortable base in a “safe” biome than it is to reform an area like the swamp, for instance.

Caves in particular are a bit more of an odd spot since I would rather have the spawners be broken but able to respawn via world regrowth than just being permanently unremovable, but I know that’s not a terribly common opinion here.