Revert the changes for Lunar Crafting Recipes

[ADM]

I think changing the lunar research tier of the Moon Glass Axe, Glass Cutter and Bath Bombs was a bad idea... the two firsts are the crafting recipes that made the Lunar Island itself a hot spot that makes us return to it and a much needed barrier justifying of these items strengths, equivalently to ruins altar recipes - having these from the comfort of home so early is busted. And the Bath Bombs have no utility besides for Hot Spring so why did that change too ?

Look at the very minor recipes remaining for the altar, there's hardly nothing of interest anymore :

To me this should be reverted entirely, the progression of the lunar recipes was already PERFECT with the Orb upgrade post Celestial Champion defeat, there was no need for removing the important crafts from the altars.

... also I find the recipe change of the Glass Cutter especially unnecessary given their new found state in the game, their steep cost in glass and the board was not a problem.

If the intention was to make the recipes as accessible as possible, and somehow the post CC thing wasn't enough, what could be done is giving the UPGRADED orb a set of Blueprints for these crafts. So there you can have these items even in the caves, but it just shouldn't be a thing so early in the game, that's all.

Edited July 26, 2025 by ADM

[Feything]

I'm probably the most casual player ever, and usually I try to avoid sailing or going anywhere else on the map let alone the lunar island. If klei wishes to encourage players to explore more then this does not help. Instead of going out there to discover a new craft on another island, everything is just thrown to me on the mainland. 

The only reason I have to bother with ever going to the lunar island is if I wish to fight celestial champion. Which most of the time I do not. 

[SpookyXy]

Maybe the orb should only get these crafts after you assemble the altar on the lunar island first.

[Electroely]

I do think the Glass Cutter needs to be more accessible early on. Its current state (before the changes from this last beta update) is pretty terrible - too expensive and out of the way to be worth using over the Dark Sword. The changes this update brought are great.

I do think that instead of needing the orb to craft them, you should be able to prototype them at the Lunar Altar on the lunar island instead. Tying its accessibility to the orb adds a lot of variance between worlds and considering its damage is the highest of any non-planar weapon, the variance might prove to be a significant game changer between "a good run" and "a bad run" for speedrun/bossrush scenarios.

[Feything]

33 minutes ago, Electroely said:

I do think the Glass Cutter needs to be more accessible early on. Its current state (before the changes from this last beta update) is pretty terrible - too expensive and out of the way to be worth using over the Dark Sword. The changes this update brought are great.

I do think that instead of needing the orb to craft them, you should be able to prototype them at the Lunar Altar on the lunar island instead. Tying its accessibility to the orb adds a lot of variance between worlds and considering its damage is the highest of any non-planar weapon, the variance might prove to be a significant game changer between "a good run" and "a bad run" for speedrun/bossrush scenarios.

Speedrunning is a minority in any game. You need to realize that the majority of players are casual, and your average new player is going to be huddled onto the mainland and dying a lot. Instead of thinking about what would the elite of the elite benefit from by rushing through everything because they have a specific game play style, the focus should be about trying to push average players to not turtle in their base and explore pass the mainland, but also to reward them for doing so and becoming bold enough to sail across the ocean to get said glass weapons. Speedrunning and bossrushing should be the last thing to be concerned about.

[Electroely]

3 minutes ago, Feything said:

Speedrunning is a minority in any game. You need to realize that the majority of players are casual, and your average new player is going to be huddled onto the mainland and dying a lot. Instead of thinking about what would the elite of the elite benefit from by rushing through everything because they have a specific game play style, the focus should be about trying to push average players to not turtle in their base and explore pass the mainland, but also to reward them for doing so and becoming bold enough to sail across the ocean to get said glass weapons. Speedrunning and bossrushing should be the last thing to be concerned about.

I think it's nice to account for them when possible if it doesn't hurt the rest of the game. I dislike the randomness of the Celestial Orb in general and I think that this buff would be better done if you had to go to the Lunar Island once to unlock the recipe, so my suggestion is not fully based on the idea of rushing things in the game. But I think improving the consistency in the aspect of trying to do things quickly is not a bad thing.

[Well-met]

Yes please, revert

[Feything]

3 minutes ago, Electroely said:

I think it's nice to account for them when possible if it doesn't hurt the rest of the game. I dislike the randomness of the Celestial Orb in general and I think that this buff would be better done if you had to go to the Lunar Island once to unlock the recipe, so my suggestion is not fully based on the idea of rushing things in the game. But I think improving the consistency in the aspect of trying to do things quickly is not a bad thing.

The issue is that by design, DST is not developed with natural scaling difficulty overtime, so it becomes more of a personal challenge more than anything when you speed run it, there is no stakes overtime besides the different seasons changing, rinse repeat, while at most you get bigger hound waves. The reward for speedrunning is you get strong equipment early in a sandbox with no end that does not have scaling difficulty per year unless you activate rifts manually which in turn still does not scale as days go by. Yes I wish scaling was a thing so speedrunning had more impact but alas the game does not do this. Hence why I think the glasscutters should be rewards for those bold enough to go across the ocean to acquire them. But yes even unlocking them as recipes wouldn't be as bad.

[Keknutui]

3 hours ago, ADM said:

Я думаю, что менять уровень лунных исследований для Лунного стеклянного топора, Лунного стеклореза и бомб для ванны было плохой идеей... первые два предмета — это рецепты крафта, благодаря которым Лунный остров стал горячей точкой, заставляющей нас возвращаться туда, и столь необходимым барьером, оправдывающим сильные стороны этих предметов, как и рецепты алтарей в руинах. То, что их можно получить, не выходя из дома, — это перебор. А бомбы для ванны бесполезны, кроме как в горячем источнике, так зачем их тоже менять?

Посмотрите на те немногие рецепты, которые остались для алтаря. В них почти нет ничего интересного :

На мой взгляд, это нужно полностью изменить. Прогрессия лунных рецептов уже была ИДЕАЛЬНОЙ после победы над Небесным чемпионом и улучшения Сферы. Не было необходимости убирать важные рецепты с алтарей.

...кроме того, я считаю, что изменение рецепта стеклореза было особенно ненужным, учитывая его новое состояние в игре, а также то, что высокая стоимость стекла и доски не была проблемой.

Если целью было сделать рецепты максимально доступными, а пост в сообществе не помог, то можно было бы добавить в улучшенную сферу набор чертежей для этих ремесленных изделий. Таким образом, вы сможете создавать эти предметы даже в пещерах, но это не должно быть доступно так рано в игре, вот и всё.

There is one solution that we could do. Complicate crafting with 5 shards, bring back old crafting level, and make it possible to memorize his crafting

[ADM]

I don't want them to be prototyped even if they're returned to the altars tech level. This is like if the Thulecite Crown, Suit, Pick/Axe and the likes was made prototypable just by making them once, I don't want it if we don't have to provide hard work for it.

We have a very close equivalent of "prototyping" these items once the Celestial Champion is beat, because the orb gains the tech level of the altars and they can be made outside of the lunar island, this stuff is great and earned rightfully, if we are to be given full-on prototyping then it has to be post CC and I won't mind that.

There's only so much I can let slide without being annoyed but this change makes a huge waste of a completely good gameplay loop.

[GrapeVruit]

12 minutes ago, ADM said:

I don't want them to be prototyped even if they're returned to the altars tech level. This is like if the Thulecite Crown, Suit, Pick/Axe and the likes was made prototypable just by making them once, I don't want it if we don't have to provide hard work for it.

But most items in the ancient tab are a lot more powerful compared to most of the stuff in the celestial tab. Having a cheaper dark sword and a fast chopping axe be prototypable is way different than armor with 90% DR, staffs that make light and give back resources, and amulets that make you move faster, craft cheaper, and pick things quicker.

[hhhhddh]

After CC we have brightshade weapons so no need to craft glass cutter. Ancient recipes should be craft in ancient area because there is dangerous, Lunar recipes just cost time sailing, so why not make it simple? I really like the change actually, it make me use glass cutter like first or second time. I used to prefer darksword.

[ADM]

1 minute ago, GrapeVruit said:

But most items in the ancient tab are a lot more powerful compared to most of the stuff in the celestial tab. Having a cheaper dark sword and a fast chopping axe be prototypable is way different than armor with 90% DR, staffs that make light and give back resources, and amulets that make you move faster, craft cheaper, and pick things quicker.

Disagreed, because the items are also a lot cheaper and renewable without having to be too involved with the rest of their questline, unlike Ancient recipes with you can only get so much off before having to look real hard. So with that I think they're a respective equivalent and powerful.

[Radicaljoe]

 

20 minutes ago, ADM said:

There's only so much I can let slide without being annoyed but this change makes a huge waste of a completely good gameplay loop.

May I ask what the gameplay loop is? 

[Dyzrespect]

Realistically, if you're as experienced and quick at the game as this sentiment implies, the only time you use Glass Cutters rn is when you craft a few when you initially go to Lunar Island. You probably use those on Fuelweaver then that's it, there's never a point to crafting a Glass Cutter ever again because you have rift weapons. Why would you spend time after the initial visit going back just to craft more cutters when you can easily craft a Hambat or Darksword anywhere in the world? Glass Cutter is not an Ancient Psuedo level item, it is on the same power level as a dark sword.

With this change it is reasonable to be able to use them throughout the game after you find Lunar or the Grotto, and in fact they're still less convenient than Hambat or Darksword since you can't prototype them. Glass Axes also were almost never used because you had to carry them all the way from Lunar so you really only bothered to use them if you were fighting toadstool. If you just look at these changes on paper you have no grounding for understanding the reasoning behind them. This adds variety to the game both for newer and more veteran players, and gives space for new items to consume moon glass, like the TINGLE node!

Edited July 26, 2025 by Dyzrespect