too many of the characters just dont have a downside

[Mysterious box]

46 minutes ago, SilverSpoon said:

Dried Kelp restores as much sanity as Morsel, but Kelp dries out 4 times faster. Anyway, if I rely on Dried Kelp for sanity, I only need one Drying Rack on my boat, but It can't when playing Wigfrid.

Fair enough though that's a very specific niche.

48 minutes ago, SilverSpoon said:

Fish spoils twice as fast as meat, so I has to look for food that much more often. That's where her low hunger limit comes to problem. I can also go fishing and put fish in your Tin Fishin' Bin, but if I do that while also managing her sanity it tend to become a hand to mouth.

I assume this is for a boat base? I've never has issues with running out of meat at sea unless I'm intentionally staying out there long term and avoiding meat sources either way I feel like that's more so down to playstyle preference than the downside at play.

51 minutes ago, SilverSpoon said:

Walter's hunger limit is also only 110, but he can safety kill Cookie Cutters, Sea Weeds, and Gnarwails, which are hard to turn into food with Wigfrid to, so it's not too much of a problem.

Even here I just use meat I've never gone out of my way to kill cookie cutters or sea weeds for it.

54 minutes ago, SilverSpoon said:

When I play Wigfrid, I rely on her combat healing to forced playstyle to make up for her downside, but this playstyle doesn't work on the ocean because there are no mobs to fight, and her low stats become a heavy burden.

I feel like passive sanity gain items make the most sense if you're staying long term in a area without things to hit to keep your sanity up afterall armor doesn't help when there's nothing to fight.

More than anything though these issues could just be solved by making use of the crockpot. You're not wrong to see it the way you do but it's more so a case of her being incompatible with how you want to play at sea rather than her downside being impactful in this scenario.

[Lovens]

7 hours ago, Evelo said:

While I agree with the majority of the post (not the suggestions, just how downsides truly affect gameplay in a positive way), the .75x damage multiplier for Wendy, Wes, and Walter really don't mean anything when a Beefalo exists. Hell most of the character downsides can be ignored while atop a beefalo. It is quite sad as you essentially just play as the beefalo instead of your character. I don't get why people love them so much unless they enjoy being an all powerful unstoppable killing machine. I find challenge fun so beefalo aren't for me.

I was there at some point thinking ex the same, then I started taming riders. These fellas are amazing, especially early game, and super easy to train, have you ever tried one? 

[Edible Coal]

this post really felt like a giant post to nerf everyone

Just now, Edible Coal said:

this post really felt like a giant post to nerf everyone

downsides in a pve game is design to change how u tackle situations differently

[AveHortor]

3 hours ago, Radicaljoe said:

Wolfgang's downside is the hunger drain i think, the buff/weak animations can also be counted I believe, I have taken damage/been annoyed by the animation locking me in place several times. 

Woodie's downside is most notably the moon, atleast until you defeat Celestial Champion and get the lunar skill. The tree guard chance I believe is also supposed to be a downside, but most players actually want tree guards so it's an upside/downside deal. But woodie was mediocre for so long after his rework I think it's okay for his downside to be mediocre, he suffered long enough already.

Woodie also has the "downside" of being less affected by items such as the Luxury Fan due to his insulation, cannot eat more than one monster food every four minutes, and loses 15 sanity per swing with the Shadow Maul.

[Echsrick]

9 hours ago, Alexx7 said:

walter - losing a crazy amount of sanity on hit and having a .75 multiplier on his melee attacks makes it so youre pushed towards playing at a distance and on woby

i dont remember him doin less damage
 

9 hours ago, Alexx7 said:

wendy - same .75 multiplier making it so you have to focus on keeping abigail alive or else fights end up taking way longer 

ahm....yea no
 

9 hours ago, Alexx7 said:

wormwood - not being able to heal in combat means you have to use nontraditional ways to heal and gives use to all the random trash everywhere on the world after a while like rot ash and poop

healing salves and honey poultrice, people sould use them more

 

9 hours ago, Alexx7 said:

winona - you eat rocks by the stack

i mean i guess? but like....the caves

 

9 hours ago, Alexx7 said:

being able to sleep is fine since you can just grow green caps to get all your sanity back anyways

use sanity to get sanity

 

9 hours ago, Alexx7 said:

the monster characters i feel dont aggro enough enemies

just the mere fact pigs hate them and bunnys(not wurt) is just enought

 

[Edible Coal]

1 hour ago, AveHortor said:

and loses 15 sanity per swing with the Shadow Maul.

only when chopping trees

[Evelo]

4 hours ago, Lovens said:

I was there at some point thinking ex the same, then I started taming riders. These fellas are amazing, especially early game, and super easy to train, have you ever tried one? 

I use riders exclusively but even then, while they do less damage they are still infinite weapons that are better than the walking cane. Still too powerful for my taste in game balance but it's just my opinion and all. Klei has the ultimate say in the end, given they introduced the Gloom Bell, they are definitely in favor of the Beef.

[Edible Coal]

1 hour ago, Evelo said:

I use riders exclusively but even then, while they do less damage they are still infinite weapons that are better than the walking cane. Still too powerful for my taste in game balance but it's just my opinion and all. Klei has the ultimate say in the end, given they introduced the Gloom Bell, they are definitely in favor of the Beef.

never image 25 dmg is too strong

[Evelo]

5 minutes ago, Edible Coal said:

never image 25 dmg is too strong

Well it is 25 Damage (unaffected by modifiers), 1000 HP, Health Regeneration, and significant increase to movement speed, 4x Health Gain from Food Boost.
Compared to a Walking Cane which is also infinite durability, 17 damage (affected by modifiers), Base Character of Choice HP, Armors of Choice, slight increase to movement speed, No health regeneration, base Health gain from foods (sans Wormwood and Warly Repeating same Food, but also Salt to make up for it).

[Cheggf]

There are only like 5 characters with even somewhat notable downsides, everyone else essentially has none. Klei has never been super into the whole "downside" idea, unfortunately, but with the reworks and skill trees they've really gone all-in on the idea that they don't like downsides. 

[Wawchik]

Downsides can be good but I don't think every character needs one 

[AveHortor]

9 hours ago, Edible Coal said:

only when chopping trees

Thank you for clarifying for anyone who mistakes that as attacking.

[Jakepeng99]

20 hours ago, Alexx7 said:

downsides and weaknesses play a huge part in creating characters as different weaknesses and downsides change the way you play the game and can help characters not just be overpowered

but for dont starve together it seems that most characters just dont have impactful downsides at all, and besides a few exceptions it makes it so a lot of them play functionally identically

really the only characters i think have impactful downsides are like

wigfrid and wurt - only being able to eat one category of food is an amazing downside that affects both the survival and combat aspects of the game, (though considering most of the best crockpot dishes are meat i lowkey wish wigfrid would only eat meat from fires or raw but still great downside for early game)

warly - possibly the best downside, completely changes the way you play the game and makes the survival gameplay so much more fun and changes his combat since you cant just spam pierogis and have to learn more recipes

walter - losing a crazy amount of sanity on hit and having a .75 multiplier on his melee attacks makes it so youre pushed towards playing at a distance and on woby

wendy - same .75 multiplier making it so you have to focus on keeping abigail alive or else fights end up taking way longer 

wormwood - not being able to heal in combat means you have to use nontraditional ways to heal and gives use to all the random trash everywhere on the world after a while like rot ash and poop

winona - you eat rocks by the stack

but besides them i dont like any of the other characters really have that impactful of downsides and i think that really sucks

i think wickerbottom and wx have great downsides in theory, but they dont work in practice

for wickerbottom you can so quickly get food while playing her that it doesnt even matter that she cant eat spoiled food and not being able to sleep is fine since you can just grow green caps to get all your sanity back anyways, and as for wx, theres like 2 ways to get wet in the game and the eyebrella completely makes wetness a non issue getting rid of their main downside

as for the others they just dont have any, willows downside doesnt matter when thermal stones exist, the monster characters i feel dont aggro enough enemies i honestly think bees and beefalo should be aggressive to them, woodie and wolfgang just dont have any at all, maxwell and wanda having low hp doesnt matter when maxwell can lock enemies in place and wanda can stunlock enemies and has infinite healing

idk i just feel like klei should at some point in the future update some of the characters to have actual downsides that affect gameplay and to balance how kinda busted some of them are

heres like a few examples i thought of what these could be

wolfgang should take more damage and lose sanity the more he gets hit, hes a scaredy cat strongman so it fits him, also bring back the hunger drain while mighty, buff guys eat literally truck loads of food

woodie should have a black thumb and not be able to do things like farm or plant grass tufts and twigs, pushing him to a more nomadic playstyle relying on scavenging nature which would make his goose form more useful after exploring the whole map and make him play even better in coop, like a lumberjack, (also the goose should be able to collect grass twigs and berries) 

bring back willow becoming cold while insane and make it so using spells uses sanity as well, she can literally create fireballs now and bernie can become monstrous at higher sanity so it isnt that bad, just dont make it slow her down as much and make it so going near any fire or setting something on fire immediately pushes her to a higher temperature rather than have to stay still for a while and just watch the screen to warm up so it isnt just tedious

tldr: most characters in this game dont have significant downsides especially in the survival aspect of the game, so a lot of them end up playing the exact same way and that kinda blows

idk these are just my thoughts, what are yours and arguments for or against my thoughts? idk i like the game but man is this kinda just an issue thats been getting more and more prevalent for a while now

I agree with your overall point, alot, but including Winona in the vat of having downsides is weird since you build catapults once or mootch off other Winona’s (it’s not like you need to urgently make them she has other good upsides now), while not including Wortox who’s downside has the biggest impact on his gameplay of all characters.

 

anyway, many characters having basically no downsides is kinda crazy, since one of Wilson’s main upsides was that he was meant to have no downsides.

11 hours ago, Echsrick said:

healing salves and honey poultrice, people sould use them more

Thats you spending extra resources on something you didn’t have to spend on.

20 hours ago, Alexx7 said:

walter - losing a crazy amount of sanity on hit and having a .75 multiplier on his melee attacks makes it so youre pushed towards playing at a distance and on woby

He doesn’t have a lower damage multiplier? Have a feeling you never played him.

[Echsrick]

53 minutes ago, Jakepeng99 said:

Thats you spending extra resources on something you didn’t have to spend on.

ah yes...you rather die then heal yourself, sure

[Jakepeng99]

23 minutes ago, Echsrick said:

ah yes...you rather die then heal yourself, sure

As a normal character, you passively heal from eating food. Not as wormwood you need additional resources.

[Edible Coal]

worm wood can heal just as good as normal people do, compost wrap, jelly bean( hes a bq killer), batbat... 

[Mysterious box]

57 minutes ago, Jakepeng99 said:

As a normal character, you passively heal from eating food. Not as wormwood you need additional resources.

To be fair a lot of people don't even know how to make good healing foods or just don't bring them into combat due to them spoiling or some other reason I don't understand so it would actually do people some good in surviving if more people used medicine. People undervalue what a non spoiling healing offers in terms of survivability especially before you get your hands on bundling wraps or similar alternatives.

[Echsrick]

1 hour ago, Jakepeng99 said:

As a normal character, you passively heal from eating food. Not as wormwood you need additional resources.

but you said that these additional resources is a waste......and we were talkin about wormwood spesificaly

[Jakepeng99]

3 hours ago, Echsrick said:

but you said that these additional resources is a waste......and we were talkin about wormwood spesificaly

Its a downside as it means you need to gather more seperate resources and makes the game harder.

[cybers2001]

Winona's downside is that she eats more than most characters. Even assembling/disassembling her portable structures triggers her hunger drain.

[Echsrick]

5 hours ago, Jakepeng99 said:

Its a downside as it means you need to gather more seperate resources and makes the game harder.

we talkin about healing salves and honey poultrice.....those are not hard to get items

[Edible Coal]

5 minutes ago, Echsrick said:

we talkin about healing salves and honey poultrice.....those are not hard to get items

if u compare them perogies, they are certainly harder

[Echsrick]

13 minutes ago, Edible Coal said:

if u compare them perogies, they are certainly harder

ok lets see how collecting honey from your bee box is harder then gettin all your meat turned into eggs wich you still need meat left to do perogies

[Edible Coal]

1 minute ago, Echsrick said:

ok lets see how collecting honey from your bee box is harder then gettin all your meat turned into eggs wich you still need meat left to do perogies

getting paper is much harder

[Evelo]

@Echsrick Yea I agree with you Wormwood's downside isn't really a downside, it is just a change in how you play. Which is awesome! Much like how Wigfrid and Wurt's downsides aren't really downsides just changes how you play compared to "The Wilson Experience"