Klei, we need to talk about asteroids and dlc

[blash365]

I already created a similar topic after the last DLC and with the prehistoric DLC my problem is becoming even more pronounced.

I dont like to miss out on content in my games.

so my perfect start is one that includes all asteroids. 

In the base game i had that start. 

for terrania i had:

• irradiated forest
• oily swamp (fixed)
• tundra (fixed)
• marshy
• moo (very small, most useless in my view)
• water (needed for graphite)
• superconductive (needed for tungsten)
• regolith (useful for iron, otherwise boring)

 

So with the frosty planet pack, i already had to either

• miss out on a part of the new content
• use the new cluster and miss out on part of the old content
• use splicing of biomes to only miss out on some POIs at the cost of some of the old biomes
• replace some of the old asteroids

 

In all those cases i had to give up on content. It feels like a dlc for Cities Skylines...

I would really appreciate if we could increase the amount of asteroids and give us the option to add a DLC asteroid *with* POIs into our cluster without replacing the existing ones.

As much as i love seeing new content for the game (and i do!), this game creation step and the knowledge that i have to cut things out of my base cluster, i always making me avoid testing the content. 

 

 

This would also address one of the pacing issues i had in most of my games:

The distance between asteroid 1-2-3 and 4-5.

In almost every of my games i end up with having 3 respectably well colonized asteroids.

first one is given, second one is easy by teleporter, third one by carbon or sugar rocket.

but afterwards there is a looooooong gap. I cannot reach planet 4 or 5 without using either a rad rocket, which is painfully hard to setup or a (not small) petroleum rocket. 

The only use i am having for the small petroleum rocket in this stage is either to travel between asteroid 1 and 3 or to gather resource nodes and relics (which brings us to yet another issue: mugs...).

I think it would be a great way to fill this gap by adding the dlc asteroids on the small petroleum range.

This gives you more options to build up the (not small) petroleum and rad engine.

 

 

Anybody else shares my pain?

Edited June 21, 2025 by blash365

[Mementh]

your right, but as i understand the issues with the game.

You are dealing with a single map for all asteroids and ships no matter what. 
as you expose more it has to run more and runs slowly because it was architected to be a single core program. while some has added to multi core the main engine still has the limit.
so adding more asteroids would increase the demand on it. 

I would say we need to change some ... like a water planet? ice and water and such, merge options. moos on top and all that space can be minimized to one asteroid for things.
 

[blash365]

5 hours ago, Mementh said:

your right, but as i understand the issues with the game.

You are dealing with a single map for all asteroids and ships no matter what. 
as you expose more it has to run more and runs slowly because it was architected to be a single core program. while some has added to multi core the main engine still has the limit.
so adding more asteroids would increase the demand on it. 

I would say we need to change some ... like a water planet? ice and water and such, merge options. moos on top and all that space can be minimized to one asteroid for things.
 

I have been around for a while.

 

There was an issue with pathing in the base game. Since the map was much larger, pathing was basically executed for everything on the entire map over the entire map (with simplifications). 

This was already smartly addressed in spaced out by splitting the once bigger map into smaller parts of each asteroid. Possibly even allowing a bigger mapsize with the same overall performance. You could still see popups from your other asteroids at the edge of your current one, and flying critters were even able to move between asteroids through the space biome, strongly hinting that in the background everything was one map.

The processing power is another thing. yeah, it drags down, the longer the game runs. But look at the recent dlc? We got more critters, more x-dos, which is great, but if you "catch them all" you will end up with *alot* more entities to calculate pathing for. 

The fact that they are still added tells me that these performance cuts are something that Klei intentionally takes. Time has passed, optimations have been done, better CPUs are on the market, etc.

So i am hoping for the same to be possibly by adding a few (1 per dlc) asteroids to the cluster map on certain distances (small petrol and outer rim).

[Mementh]

don't know what to say.. i wish it was a easy thing, i know you can add the effect story trait via a mod to all the asteroids now.. 

but it *ALWAYS* slows down the more your doing.. current game i am going to try to not fly by planets unless i want to use them.. even the water planet.. if i don't have a use i am not opening it up.

and would love to know if we can combo asteroids to make thing easier/less troublesome?

[imazined]

On 6/22/2025 at 12:49 AM, blash365 said:

I have been around for a while.

 

There was an issue with pathing in the base game. Since the map was much larger, pathing was basically executed for everything on the entire map over the entire map (with simplifications). 

This was already smartly addressed in spaced out by splitting the once bigger map into smaller parts of each asteroid. Possibly even allowing a bigger mapsize with the same overall performance. You could still see popups from your other asteroids at the edge of your current one, and flying critters were even able to move between asteroids through the space biome, strongly hinting that in the background everything was one map.

The processing power is another thing. yeah, it drags down, the longer the game runs. But look at the recent dlc? We got more critters, more x-dos, which is great, but if you "catch them all" you will end up with *alot* more entities to calculate pathing for. 

The fact that they are still added tells me that these performance cuts are something that Klei intentionally takes. Time has passed, optimations have been done, better CPUs are on the market, etc.

So i am hoping for the same to be possibly by adding a few (1 per dlc) asteroids to the cluster map on certain distances (small petrol and outer rim).

Just use the CGM mod to mix and match the clusters to your likings.

[Paperbag]

I don't have much to contribute here, but I feel like the Moo Planetoid could be made redundant. Even among the outer Planetoids, it's tiny, and the space it occupies could probably be used to fit another more interesting Planetoid in.

I would personally just merge it with another Planetoid via a guaranteed trait like uhhh... "Grazing Grounds" or something that just slaps a smaller version of the Moo biome on top. Hell, maybe even slap it onto the third Planetoid to let us use them earlier in the game.

idk, I'm obviously not a game dev

Edited June 23, 2025 by Paperbag

[blash365]

8 hours ago, imazined said:

Just use the CGM mod to mix and match the clusters to your likings.

sounds good (even though i prefer mod-free play).

Can i also increase the space map with this mod? Or just place the asteroids/resources on the default grid?

3 hours ago, Paperbag said:

I don't have much to contribute here, but I feel like the Moo Planetoid could be made redundant. Even among the outer Planetoids, it's tiny, and the space it occupies could probably be used to fit another more interesting Planetoid in.

I would personally just merge it with another Planetoid via a guaranteed trait like uhhh... "Grazing Grounds" or something that just slaps a smaller version of the Moo biome on top. Hell, maybe even slap it onto the third Planetoid to let us use them earlier in the game.

idk, I'm obviously not a game dev

I concur in the sense that Moos are very niche because the asteroid has so little else to offer. By the time of arrival, natural gas shouldnt be a needed resource anymore.

 

On the other hand, it offers a unique challenge of making it habitable without using different resources. To me it usually is an asteroid for 1-2 dupes, but not much action.

[imazined]

You can also make the space bigger if you want a real reason to use hydrogen engines.

And moos are great now. Earlier they were terrible but now they are funny and give oxygen.

[blash365]

On 6/23/2025 at 10:28 PM, imazined said:

You can also make the space bigger if you want a real reason to use hydrogen engines.

And moos are great now. Earlier they were terrible but now they are funny and give oxygen.

Huh? Since when do they give oxygen?

[SGT_Imalas]

1 hour ago, blash365 said:

Huh? Since when do they give oxygen?

Brackene -> water -> electrolyzer

Edited June 25, 2025 by SGT_Imalas

[6Havok9]

On 6/21/2025 at 6:54 PM, blash365 said:

Anybody else shares my pain?

Edited Saturday at 07:11 PM by

I do. Restarting my "Forever" colony everytime kinda defeats the point of having a forever colony. Having limited time to play makes every restart hurt.

Seems like these DLCs are very focused on the early game, that's the trend I see. 

[BezKa]

18 hours ago, 6Havok9 said:

I do. Restarting my "Forever" colony everytime kinda defeats the point of having a forever colony. Having limited time to play makes every restart hurt.

Seems like these DLCs are very focused on the early game, that's the trend I see. 

From what I've noticed, a planet pack is for a new start, but a booster pack can be seamlessly added to your already existing world. I hope we're gonna get a booster now, since we're 2 to 1 atm.

[blash365]

20 hours ago, 6Havok9 said:

I do. Restarting my "Forever" colony everytime kinda defeats the point of having a forever colony. Having limited time to play makes every restart hurt.

Seems like these DLCs are very focused on the early game, that's the trend I see. 

Starting over is a chore, especially since some phases (especially the transition from asteroid 3 to 4) can feel like a draaaag.

But I am mostly fine with the early-game lategame distribution. The bionic update had quite a few lategame additions to it. And i appreciate that the other two DLCs added alternative routes to get to certain results (food, oxygen, energy, etc.). Having more paths to our destination is very fulfilling.

 

But speaking of lategame, i would really like to see something to address the solid material storage. In almost every game, i am plastering the map with storage compactors. With things like minerals, it is just not a scalable solution.

I also build some patterns that store more material in smaller spaces (similar to gas/liquid compactors), but they feel clunky and exploity to me. Also i have my doubts that they perform better than having the materials properly stacked in a building. Aside from the hermit storage (which unfortunately cannot be constructed multiple times), there is no other way to store solids (aside from rockets, which are exploity as well).

 

[Kderosa]

4 hours ago, blash365 said:

But speaking of lategame, i would really like to see something to address the solid material storage. In almost every game, i am plastering the map with storage compactors. With things like minerals, it is just not a scalable solution.

The real nightmare doesn't surface until you start trying to automate the process using planetary launchers to transport solid material.   Unlike the liquid and gas storage containers which have high and low sensors built in, the smart compactor doesn't. So, you can't have the receiving planet signal it needs material and to stop sending material when it has enough like you can with gas and liquid transport.  And this is for bulk materials like raw minerals, sand, dirt and the like.  Non-bulk materials, like reed fiber and dehydrated food (the two materials you'd often want to stock at remote colonies) have their own unique issues.  Solid material transport and storing remains fiddly and requires too much micromanagement. 

But going back to your original point and as I've pointed out elsewhere, the main problem with the game is the lack of a late game and a real late game goal.  The most difficult goal - sending a dupe through the temporal tear - can be accomplished by a somewhat experienced player in the midgame (the steel and petroleum era). Anything after that is pure vanity sandbox.

The DLCs mostly seem to be directed to providing a variety of alternate early game starts.  Not much from Frozen and Prehistoric is useful by midgame (maybe the bammoths for reed fiber and the lums for a coal alternative).  The bionic dupes are useful in mid game and beyond for planets where you don't want to grow/ranch food (see above for why that' s micromanagement headache)  and versatility (swap out boosters) and for no-dupe mining rockets. The new asteroid demolisher is a keeper too if repurposed...

I think Klei could get a lot of bang for the buck by using all the existing DLCs to make a new DLC directed to players who already know how to make a bathroom loop, a SPOM, and  steel.  Just change the focus from surviving to thriving.

1.  Use the new biomes along withe old biomes to make a more interesting planet cluster.  I prefer the small planetoids over the classic large planetoid, but there was something appealing to the randomness of that classic planet because you never knew what you'd have to deal with or have available.

2.  Use the demolior timer to force the player to leave the starter planet and build a new colony (face it you're going to redesign your initial base at least once anyway) based on your new tech you've acquired.  In fact, do this over and over until all the starter planets are gone and replaced with POIs.

3. Expand the Universe.  Right now I can often scan the entire universe while acquiring enough data banks to complete the tech tree.  That's great but too small.  I want to keep exploring the unknown using that tech - something I can only do with a hypdrogen rocket, say. Make the outer planets a required fabrication chain.  The Sap Tree and Niobium planets already are.  The Moo planet should be rejiggered to be a brackene ranch.  The Water planet, some supercoolant precursor chain. The temporal tear planet, a use for iron (there's way too much of all the resources for making steel)

4. Force the player onto the last toehold in the universe (I'd suggest something the regolith planet which is presently useless but difficult to set-up a base on) while the last asteroid approaches.

5. Finally, as the late game, after the tear is open, make one last planet available on the "other side" for the final functioning base where you have to use the late game resources (presently of almost no value, except super coolant) and supply chains used to make super projectiles to stop the asteroids (or some other silly McGuffin).

 Call this Game of the Year Edition.  Print Money.

[blash365]

1 hour ago, Kderosa said:

The real nightmare doesn't surface until you start trying to automate the process using planetary launchers to transport solid material.   ...

Well, it is interesting that we have different feelings.

I dont need that set goal in endgame. and especially not a death timer. But i understand that it might be interesting. And i actually think that is what the prehistoric meteor is trying to be. The destroyer should be repurposed though, i agree on that.

Also, i think remote work and remote control rocket are the more late-gamy features of the bionic dlc. They finally allow large 1 dupe colonies and elegantly keep the manual control buildings with a different angle.

 

When it comes to solid material supply rocket automation, i always thought you could do so with sensors on the rocket storage itself. "if it is not empty, do not travel for resupply". I never set this up though, since i usually control my rockets manually. 

 

[Kderosa]

20 hours ago, blash365 said:

Well, it is interesting that we have different feelings.

I agree the solid storage is a weaknesses that requires too much micromanaging.  I'm just pointing out the transport of solid materials is even worse.

20 hours ago, blash365 said:

I dont need that set goal in endgame. and especially not a death timer. But i understand that it might be interesting. And i actually think that is what the prehistoric meteor is trying to be. The destroyer should be repurposed though, i agree on that.

Agreed.  But some like goals.  If you like the pure sandbox better just turn off the goals and play however you want.  The point is that presently the late game (after the research is done and all rare resources have been found and fabricated) doesn't really exist.  It would be nice if one did exist given the popularity of the game and the number of experienced players who still play it.

20 hours ago, blash365 said:

Also, i think remote work and remote control rocket are the more late-gamy features of the bionic dlc. They finally allow large 1 dupe colonies and elegantly keep the manual control buildings with a different angle.

When it comes to solid material supply rocket automation, i always thought you could do so with sensors on the rocket storage itself. "if it is not empty, do not travel for resupply". I never set this up though, since i usually control my rockets manually. 

Yes, those exist.  But by the time you start using them, you could have opened the tear and "won" and completed the most difficult goal.  It would be nice to have another goal after this point that gives you a reason to build all this new tech instead of just building it because you can.

Build a conveyor system on the rocket storage module to automate unloading.

[blash365]

3 hours ago, Kderosa said:

Yes, those exist.  But by the time you start using them, you could have opened the tear and "won" and completed the most difficult goal.  It would be nice to have another goal after this point that gives you a reason to build all this new tech instead of just building it because you can.

Point taken!

Unfortunately i never touched the tear so far. So my late game isnt your late game yet.

But having some more things to do after researching everything seems like a good idea.

[Kderosa]

1 hour ago, blash365 said:

Unfortunately i never touched the tear so far. So my late game isnt your late game yet.

I see.  Have you built a nuclear plant yet?  It's actually pretty easy.  Once you do that making your power needs are over and you'll have plenty of radbolts to use in a radbolt engine.  And you haven't lived until you have used radbolt rockets.

[blash365]

2 hours ago, Kderosa said:

I see.  Have you built a nuclear plant yet?  It's actually pretty easy.  Once you do that making your power needs are over and you'll have plenty of radbolts to use in a radbolt engine.  And you haven't lived until you have used radbolt rockets.

So far i only saw a very large build for a reactor. With like 16 steam turbines.

I tried to build it in my previous game, but i stopped playing before it was finished.^^

I had some rad bolt engine action with an exploity take-off-return toxic waste basin silo. It was doing the trick, but needed a loooot of tedious manual clicking.

Edited June 29, 2025 by blash365