Lumb Feedback and Possible Bug with Vines

[ChrisPBacon000]

I had a chance to check out the game after yesterday's patch and I'm more than a bit stunned by the change to the Lumb...  They went from a nice perfect match of 6 Lumbs in a stable with one vine (24 figs per 3 cycles), to... this?

Now they consume 1300 kcal / cycle of figs... that means a single fully developed vine can feed TWO Lumbs, instead of a full stable of 6.  Given the enormous physical space requirement of the vine, I can realistically fit one vine plus Two lumbs, the grooming station, and basically nothing else.  Are two lumbs worth 90 kg of water per cycle?  Some quick math suggests they produce 1 egg every 12.5 cycles, and they drop 12 kg of tough meat per cycle, so once you reach a steady state where the eggs are hatching pretty steadily, then you get 24 kg of meat per 12.5 cycles or 1.9 kg per cycle.

This could feed 3, nearly 4 Rhex if you want to just get feathers (though Rhex need cold stables now, but that's a topic for another post).  If you want the dupes to EAT the meat, then 1.9 kg per cycle or roughly 1 brisket every 3 cycles = 6666 kcal per cycle.  Still pretty great from that perspective I think.  6-7 dupes per cycle is decent for a stable with just 2 animals in it.  Is this the intent?  Just straight nerf them?  You just get less food for the same water input.

Thoughts on Optimization

Since the stables only need 2 Lumbs, can we fit a few Mimika to improve the growth of the plants?  Can we squeeze a third Lumb in?  I don't know the exact math because I don't know if you can pollinate the individual vines.  24 figs / 3 cycles = 8 per cycle.  But if pollination speeds up growth by 25% that is 3/1.25 = 2.4 cycles per fig, so 24/2.4 = 10 per cycle (3250 kcal, 2.7 Lumbs).  That means 2 stables could overall support 5 of them, not 4, assuming pollination improves fig growth as I calculated.

Here's where I ran into an issue.  I tried to build some test stables but I can't plant the figs!!!  See my screenshot.  I have 21 seeds, but I can't plant them for some reason.

TLDR

Lumbs require 1300 kcal/cycle of figs, instead of 433.  One fully grown Vine Node can produce 2600 kcal/cycle, so each vine supports 2 Lumbs (down from 6).  The vines require a LOT of space, so realistically 2 Lumbs per stable is possible now.  Optimizing vine growing space and pollination should be explored, but a bug preventing me from planting the new Nodes is causing problems.

Thoughts and discussion welcome, I really thought the loop of water --> fig --> Lumb --> feed Rhex --> water (from brine) was a nice one for farming feathers.  Maybe that's not intended though?

UPDATE --> I got the node planted with a pip!  Yay Pips!  See the second screenshot.  I think it's a temporary work-around but something is wrong for sure.

Edited May 31, 2025 by ChrisPBacon000
New Information

[Electroely]

Don't forget to factor in the Peat they produce! It's pretty massive. 200kg per cycle for each Lumb, so 400kg per Ovagro Node. This turns into 80kg of polluted water via Peat Burner - It's almost water-positive! If you use Mimikas to enhance the efficiency of the ovagro vines and use 5 lumbs for 2 ovagro nodes, you're making 1000kg/cycle of peat for 180kg of water, which then turns into 200kg/cycle of polluted water - a net positive of 20kg water per cycle.

As far as using their meat to feed Rhexes, I think it works pretty well, but I'd rather try to feed Rhexes live prey to get the bonus brice ice production. Getting double the brine ice is a big deal, so I'd rather use the tough meat to feed my duplicants (or the isosap tree)

I think the nerfs they got were totally fair, because they're still really good! I love the way they are right now.

[Tigin]

It's pretty easy to fit 2 ovagro nodes with sweepers in a 96 tile ranch if you drop the 4 tile-height requirement, which gets you to 4 lumbs per max size ranch (or add a filler tile to make it feel 4-tile high but super wide). With a butterfly that's awfully close to keeping 5 lumbs and 1 butterfly happy.

 

[ChrisPBacon000]

Mind sharing a screenshot of a 2-vine ranch?  I'm having trouble envisioning how to get the full growth without the vines running into autosweepers, conveyor loaders, or grooming stations.  5 Lumbs + a butterfly in one ranch with 2 vines seems like the optimum but I can't picture how the vines will fit!

Also I don't really think about the water-positive nature of Peat simply because burning that much peat comes with so many other issues... I can see looping the peat into sweatcorn and Veggie Poppers for some super sustainable food with decent (though not great) morale boost.

[Tigin]

 

22 minutes ago, ChrisPBacon000 said:

Mind sharing a screenshot of a 2-vine ranch?  I'm having trouble envisioning how to get the full growth without the vines running into autosweepers, conveyor loaders, or grooming stations.  5 Lumbs + a butterfly in one ranch with 2 vines seems like the optimum but I can't picture how the vines will fit!

Also I don't really think about the water-positive nature of Peat simply because burning that much peat comes with so many other issues... I can see looping the peat into sweatcorn and Veggie Poppers for some super sustainable food with decent (though not great) morale boost.

The colored drywall depicts where the vines should grow. I also just experienced that weird "Can't plant in hydroponics" bug, but reloading fixed it for me

 

[ChrisPBacon000]

Can the lumbs auto harvest from the uneven floors?  I feel like they can't jump... But as I said the bug with planting slowed down my testing. Thanks for sharing the design !

[Tigin]

2 hours ago, ChrisPBacon000 said:

Can the lumbs auto harvest from the uneven floors?  I feel like they can't jump... But as I said the bug with planting slowed down my testing. Thanks for sharing the design !

They can jump onto two tile wide platforms. The last wood block on the right should be moved to the top though

Proof of the pudding:

Edited May 31, 2025 by Tigin

[rafker]

On 5/31/2025 at 7:57 AM, ChrisPBacon000 said:

UPDATE --> I got the node planted with a pip!  Yay Pips!  See the second screenshot.  I think it's a temporary work-around but something is wrong for sure.

 

Copy/paste also works
But yeah, reported a bug

 

[ChrisPBacon000]

Thanks @rafker !!  I meant to report but I got derailed playing another game last night haha. Good to know we can at least copy settings. Does this but prevent new colonies from domesticating figs at all?

[Hechicera]

On 5/31/2025 at 12:57 AM, ChrisPBacon000 said:

Since the stables only need 2 Lumbs, can we fit a few Mimika to improve the growth of the plants?  Can we squeeze a third Lumb in?  I don't know the exact math because I don't know if you can pollinate the individual vine

I didn't do the math, I just did it. I was running classic terra with full randomization and found a biome and just threw them in. One ranch with one plant, and two mimika's. They were pollinating, and I wanted two for them to always have one active. I suspect the math is ~ 2.66-2.75 lumbs. With 2 lumbs and 2 mimis, I would sometimes get fruit for dupes. With 3 limbs I would get no extra fruit, and random messages that a lumb was starving which was gone by the time I moved the camera back. The peat was more than keeping up with my hatch ranches, and the extra eggs, once it got rolling, were also solid meat producers. That was a bog standard 4x24. So w/o @Tigin's  space optimization. One plant though = 1 water cost. So that allowed me to skip bristle blossom phase completely with good water efficiency (comparatively).