Wraithe's Wreathe is a problem that needs fixing.

[DVGMedia]

2 hours ago, Bumber64 said:

I presume Wormwood can also benefit from it. +5 health/sec is over twice as fast as jelly beans, and five times compost wrap.

People forget that the wreath isn't restricted to Wendy.

I don't really see people asking for one though unless they going ruins.  You know unlike helms or walking sticks.

I think vigor could help with that. With a speed boost. And really just super potion effects. It doesn't need much 

[Nikki Darks]

From reading through the comments*, I feel most of us agree on one thing (besides people who are only here to scream "lol get better Wendy main noob"). 

The Wraithe's Wreathe in itself is underwhelming and could use some better stats without touching the elixirs.

Some suggested speed, and I feel like that'd be amazing honestly, a small speed boost would make the item absolutely worthy of using instead of a helmet or seasonal gear!

[Prinha]

Again a discussion seems to be on its head. 

People are seriously argueing that moggles are easier to get or maintain than wreath + nightshade nostrum. 

1) A glowberry is harder to get than several stingers + a stack of mourning glories. Depth worms aren't exactly easily accesible.

2) It's much harder to maintain the moggles if used for an extended period of time since people have to go out of their way to get glowberries (in the early game) and lesser glowberries refuel so little they aren't practical to keep Moggles up. 
3) Miner's hat and Lantern don't give full screen vision. WW + NN is still vastly superior if going to the caves/ruins
4) "I have to use body armor when fighting with WW". How's that different from using body armor with Moggles or Miner's Hat exactly? I recommend using a beefalo rather than logsuits. 
5) "WX can do it better!". I used to swap to WX to clear my ruins because his nightvision curcuit frees me of the need to micromanage glowberries. You know with all the having to bundle/unbundle glowberries since they spoil and the extra inventory that takes up in the one place where inventory is the tightest. Now I use Wendy until I get a decent supply of Nightberries. If anything, where are the WX players complaining that Wendy got one of their strongest perks?
6) I like the suggestion to keep the duration on the elixier running when unequipping the WW.

I don't care about the other elixiers. For two (!) points I get easily available and maintanable full screen nightvision. It's well worth the investment and I take it everytime. It's sooooo goood. It's much better than I'd ever expected. 

Why aren't you complaining about the skill that lets every player-ghost on the server damage things like Abigail for 15 seconds? THAT's a useless skill. Not the Wreath. *shakes head*
 

[WilsonHiggs]

Klei: adds an interesting set of perks using cheap elixirs that are used for the main upside, one of them is used to eliminate speed debuffs

Forumiters: moaaar speeeeed

[JustAPineapple]

53 minutes ago, Prinha said:

Why aren't you complaining about the skill that lets every player-ghost on the server damage things like Abigail for 15 seconds? THAT's a useless skill. Not the Wreath. *shakes head*
 

Literally completely forgot about that one because of how nothing it is. I agree though that the wreathe isn't useless and is definitely imo the wendy skill with the most potential, I just wish it was expanded upon and was a primary focus of the skill tree, with its branch replacing perks like the aforementioned.

[hyoton123]

11 hours ago, Bumber64 said:

I presume Wormwood can also benefit from it. +5 health/sec is over twice as fast as jelly beans, and five times compost wrap.

People forget that the wreath isn't restricted to Wendy.

Yeah it is incredibly useful for on the go healing. Gets past one of wormwoods flaws, gets past one of warly’s flaws, just generally useful to be able to heal 100 hp for basically nothing. Add the zero nitre booster shot and it’s a good multiplayer piece. The nightvision is probably one of the lesser important potions just because it’s less than a full day without 2x duration.

20 hours ago, DVGMedia said:

 Storage for the magi in the first place. Only in combat. And then you also have no armor in this setup. There's alot of competition here and one chooses to do that it's not like it's not balanced.  In the way the game balances things so I again ask why is that a problem?

I really dont know how to keep explaining this to you, but: you’re asking for one of the most important player boosts (speed, important in virtually all circumstances, not “only in combat”) to be attached to a zero risk quest and honey. Ignore balance for a sec, it’s boring and uninteractive game design. There are no other headpieces granting speed. Wendy does not have teleports, so theres no reason not to use it. The closest equivalent is probably Leg Day, and it should have a similar restriction. 

 

I emphasize again that what you are suggesting would become the generally clear best option in slot. There is no need for that.

 

22 hours ago, DVGMedia said:

If it doesn't  give the obvious then there should be an obvious tell as to what the potion does. 

I agree that it needs feedback but 1. the effects of walking on webs will be immediate and obvious, and 2. needing more feedback doesnt mean changing the effect. it means adding feedback. and 3. the consequence of someone drinking a vigor mortis on accident is basically nil. compared to like drinking a spectral cureall or distilled vengeance, which are slightly less nil.

[DVGMedia]

1 hour ago, WilsonHiggs said:

Klei: adds an interesting set of perks using cheap elixirs that are used for the main upside, one of them is used to eliminate speed debuffs

Forumiters: moaaar speeeeed

How often are you affected by speed debuffs?  Now tell me how much getting to places 10 percent faster would help?  Can even have both because of how niche the first is. 

 

1 hour ago, Prinha said:

don't care about the other elixiers. For two (!) points

It's not exactly 2 points. Like yeah you can get the skill for that much  but to actively use it you need at least 4  to maintain glories.

30 minutes ago, hyoton123 said:

Yeah it is incredibly useful for on the go healing. Gets past one of wormwoods flaws, gets past one of warly’s flaws, just generally useful to be able to heal 100 hp for basically nothing. Add the zero nitre booster shot and it’s a good multiplayer piece. The nightvision is probably one of the lesser important potions just because it’s less than a full day without 2x duration.

Have you used it that way? Or are you just coming up with scenarios that it could be used?  I've used the glands more for healing than the hearts because gland version heals more fore less if have duration.  And it doesn't need a 40 HP tax. Using a cure all  only provides a 60 HP profit. While every gland is a 32 hp profit I've used the glands version to tank weather damage since that is often a problem if using it consistently. 

[WilsonHiggs]

8 minutes ago, DVGMedia said:

How often are you affected by speed debuffs?  Now tell me how much getting to places 10 percent faster would help?  Can even have both because of how niche the first is. 

Not only lacks creativity but also the cost would need to be buffed

Are you aware that the damn item is giving more tools than the one you are complaining about?

[DVGMedia]

9 minutes ago, WilsonHiggs said:

Not only lacks creativity but also the cost would need to be buffed

Are you aware that the damn item is giving more tools than the one you are complaining about?

How does creativity matter when it lacks utility? 

It can be the most creative thing but if no one uses it then what's the point? 

I wouldn't mind if it costed more it would make it useful. If that would please you for some reason fine but it really doesn't matter in the gameplay.  I'm usually one to try and find uses for niche items because there are uses. But like if you have to go out of your way to make something useful maybe there's a flaw in its design?

 

Seed shells are 1 they got buffed recently. But are still a pain to collect. One because the way they are collected have no way of collecting them quickly since need to navigate around and grab them 1 by 1 with a rickity boat.  You can kind of farm them if dedicate a while bunch of resources near a sea stack area. But they are still cumbersome to collect because ease of collection tools don't work on them because  they are considered equipment and that is an exception now.

[Johnny_Waffles]

Even if they don't give it a speed boost they could at least make it mitigate more?, ike the only good reason for it (moving marble pieces) is still is so much slower than temporarily getting a beef to move them (and yes there are thing like the piggyback and marble suit but are you really gonna make a garland and potion, wear it 24/7 since it loses its effect when unequipped)

[DVGMedia]

1 minute ago, Johnny_Waffles said:

Even if they don't give it a speed boost they could at least make it mitigate more than 10% 

I think is 25% reduction. So marble slows by 5 the heavy slows by 60 instead 

Sandstorm is 15 percent? Beequeen is 35 

Spider is 15 sink hole I think is 25? 

[Johnny_Waffles]

1 minute ago, DVGMedia said:

I think is 25% reduction. So marble slows by 5 the heavy slows by 60 instead 

Sandstorm is 15 percent? Beequeen is 35 

Spider is 15 sink hole I think is 25? 

Srry I thought it was different, but still who's gonna wear it just for the piggyback or marble suit, aka the tanking armor 

[DVGMedia]

2 hours ago, hyoton123 said:

The closest equivalent is probably Leg Day, and it should have a similar restriction. 

That's what I'm basing it off of.  The restrictions are that you have to use an item slot for it. While Wolfgangs 10 percent is purely based on his forms. 

The slot loss is actually a much more detrimental downside than you think.  The head slot is usually the most throw away slot. But it also is often used for the most important survival items. 

Insulation wetness and armor. 

That's just because having more inventory always is better in most situations because then you can carry things to counter more problems

The player can use body slot items but the question is will they?  

Hand slot often gets taken up by either light or speed.  And well weapon. 

You talk the balance of how the item is cheap to make but what about the balance of how the item plays in a characters kit?  

Alot of the strongest items in the game are head slot items 

2 hours ago, hyoton123 said:

 

I emphasize again that what you are suggesting would become the generally clear best option in slot. There is no need for that.

But it really wouldn't.  10 percent is enough where a person would give that up for insulation and armor  because a 10 percent boost is not enough to change anything in those situations.  For the opportunity cost it takes up

[SilverSpoon]

5 hours ago, Prinha said:

I don't care about the other elixiers. For two (!) points I get easily available and maintanable full screen nightvision. It's well worth the investment and I take it everytime. It's sooooo goood. It's much better than I'd ever expected. 

In my case, I don't like night vision for 2 points not because of the cost, but because of the "boringness".

Dark vision for 2 cost seems reasonable. But my quarrel is that I want it to be unique and worth usable in the end game, even if it costs more. If I need light in the dark, I don't need stick to night vision, Miner Hat or Enlightened Crown are enough. The things be easily replace aren't unique enough.

4 hours ago, hyoton123 said:

I really dont know how to keep explaining this to you, but: you’re asking for one of the most important player boosts (speed, important in virtually all circumstances, not “only in combat”) to be attached to a zero risk quest and honey. Ignore balance for a sec, it’s boring and uninteractive game design. There are no other headpieces granting speed. Wendy does not have teleports, so theres no reason not to use it. The closest equivalent is probably Leg Day, and it should have a similar restriction. 

If you have a Beefalo tame, the speed boost hats are not as dominant. 

In combat, there are some situations where should prioritize armor and headlamp headgear, and in the endgame, increase DPS headgear are importance than movement speed.

[Wawchik]

7 hours ago, Prinha said:

I don't care about the other elixiers. For two (!) points I get easily available and maintanable full screen nightvision. It's well worth the investment and I take it everytime. It's sooooo goood. It's much better than I'd ever expected. 

Why aren't you complaining about the skill that lets every player-ghost on the server damage things like Abigail for 15 seconds? THAT's a useless skill. Not the Wreath. *shakes head*
 

The problem with wreath, is that it tries to be a useful head slot with a lot of utility, yet takes only 2 skills to unlock and is most of the time just better moggles, though I still think some players really underrate this item. Everyone understands that the ghost skill is useless, and nobody cares about it to the point of people not even talking about it. 

[hyoton123]

7 hours ago, DVGMedia said:

Have you used it that way? Or are you just coming up with scenarios that it could be used?  I've used the glands more for healing than the hearts because gland version heals more fore less if have duration.  And it doesn't need a 40 HP tax. Using a cure all  only provides a 60 HP profit. While every gland is a 32 hp profit I've used the glands version to tank weather damage since that is often a problem if using it consistently. 

I’m in the middle of a VERY casual wendy playthrough during limited free time, having not played for several months, where ive been finally trying out the skill tree in practice; i have used the pots for the purposes i have mentioned, but not in MP (my usual buddy has been equally busy). Yes, even vigor mortis. SCA hp loss is barely an issue with rev restorative. You just leave it on for the healing obviously, you dont need to be healing all the time. A stack of glories in the casket makes 6 wreaths so it’s replaceable. I like it better for out of combat healing but theres plenty of fights where if you mess up theres no time limit. The other pots are basically what i expected (limited but obvious use cases).

 

5 hours ago, DVGMedia said:

The slot loss is actually a much more detrimental downside than you think.  The head slot is usually the most throw away slot. But it also is often used for the most important survival items. 

I am fairly aware of what the headslot is used for. I used to play a lot of walter and my takeaway was that clothing is incredibly powercrept. There are a ton of options that let you keep the pinetree hat on.

 

Anyway, you dont need to keep the wreath on. It’s cheap and so are the pots. Theres your “balance with the kit.”

3 hours ago, SilverSpoon said:

If you have a Beefalo tame, the speed boost hats are not as dominant. 

Vigor mortis and wreath are a trillion times easier than outfitting and upkeeping a beef, and would be the only speed hat currently in the game. Speed boost vigor mortis is a bad solution for a nonexistent problem.

 

EDIT: i keep seeing people say that wreath is 2 points. It’s true, but butterfly rez has an obvious use specifically for wendy. (well. several uses). I don’t think it’s the same as woodie’s quick picker or something obviously extremely filler. And if you dont want to take wreath, theres plenty of other sinks to use them. TS 3, sisturn 3, alignment 3, casket is 10 points. up it to brew 3 for double duration QOL for 2 more points, and youre almost maxed out as it is. 

[DVGMedia]

29 minutes ago, hyoton123 said:

Vigor mortis and wreath are a trillion times easier than outfitting and upkeeping a beef, and would be the only speed hat currently in the game. Speed boost vigor mortis is a bad solution for a nonexistent problem.

what you mean its literally just gold flint and twigs. We need a head slot speed item. And I don't mind it being vigor.
Theres no reason not to do it.
The only argument is OOOHoo Spooky BAlance!
But its balanced in itself with how the potions are balanced and how hats are balanced.

31 minutes ago, hyoton123 said:

EDIT: i keep seeing people say that wreath is 2 points. It’s true, but butterfly rez has an obvious use specifically for wendy. (well. several uses). I don’t think it’s the same as woodie’s quick picker or something obviously extremely filler. And if you dont want to take wreath, theres plenty of other sinks to use them. TS 3, sisturn 3, alignment 3, casket is 10 points. up it to brew 3 for double duration QOL for 2 more points, and youre almost maxed out as it is. 

And like thats the point. Making it consistent requires so many points. Yet people say its ment to only be a throw away item you get rid of after early game.

quick picker is like one of woodies greater skills.  I don't get what you mean of it being filler.  Goose has way more filler than what quick picker is.
 

[Walrusst]

so wait, ignoring a host of annoying slowing mechanics, being able to stack 50 damage threshold (With a cooldown) with night armor and the like, use jelly beans without jelly beans, or see in the dark for 1.5 days at a time isn't useful?
on a nearly free tophat?
 

it feels like a lot of the complaints are more that "I have habits that make it so I bypass 1/5th of the items potential" and not actually a problem with the item. yes if you have a convenient item that replaces one of these functions you don't have to use the full functions of the item, but if you play a low mistake game and only get hit every 10 or so seconds the damage threshold stacking with armor is a great perk.

[DVGMedia]

11 minutes ago, Walrusst said:

is a great perk.

i think what it does is fine honestly. And thats the problem Its fine. It would be cool if it had synergy with the affinity potions. 
I frankly just want vigor to be a slight 10% speed up. Because that would just be great in day to day.

There is alot of fear mongering of what ifs and really none of it is going to happen if that change occured.
It really would be nice though if the wreath maintained its potion on unequip.
 

[Walrusst]

3 hours ago, DVGMedia said:

i think what it does is fine honestly. And thats the problem Its fine. It would be cool if it had synergy with the affinity potions. 
I frankly just want vigor to be a slight 10% speed up. Because that would just be great in day to day.

There is alot of fear mongering of what ifs and really none of it is going to happen if that change occured.
It really would be nice though if the wreath maintained its potion on unequip.
 

i'm not really worried about what you are saying I'm just more confused at the people who say it can't do a single useful thing when at least one of its abilities is wholly unique to it and effective if you can at least dodge 50% of the time, and the others are day long or longer powers that cost you some dryer lint and a paperclip

[FillerText]

11 hours ago, DVGMedia said:

Have you used it that way? Or are you just coming up with scenarios that it could be used?  I've used the glands more for healing than the hearts because gland version heals more fore less if have duration.  And it doesn't need a 40 HP tax. Using a cure all  only provides a 60 HP profit. While every gland is a 32 hp profit I've used the glands version to tank weather damage since that is often a problem if using it consistently. 

That seems to be an entirely valid use case given that Wormwood can just eat random slop, and sleep in a tent before going out of base, or go fight a boss. I would certainly be using either potion if my friend decides to play Wendy. Idk what ur on about given that hearts are really cheap, and Wormwood's issue was healing fast instead of just healing in general. 

9 hours ago, DVGMedia said:

That's just because having more inventory always is better in most situations because then you can carry things to counter more problems

The player can use body slot items but the question is will they?

For someone who loves finding uses for every item, one would think you'd find the time to do something as simple as see how little slots you can have taken up without being "underprepared". The answer is very little. It's a very simple practice, and I've had countless times where my inventory still had random junk(double weapons. Fences. Etc) while still having 7-10 empty slots in my basic inventory without a backpack. Having more inventory slots is good only if there is something actually meaningful you can put in those extra slots instead of random grass for torches when you already have lanterns that last 3-5 days without fueling.

[JustAPineapple]

Honestly after thinking about it and reading some more replies, yeah the wreathe isn't bad at all.

But I still wish it could have been more of a focus of the skill tree, because it's a very cool concept and Id be very happy if that concept had its own dedicated path and was expanded upon, in lue of some of (what i think) are less interesting perks.

Of course that is/was never going to be the case. The wreathes function got changed during the beta to be what it is today, and by then, the rest skill tree was already made. So, of course the skill tree couldn't have been designed with that mechanical concept in mind. 

Asking for even more mechanical overhaul of the entire tree, especially now that it's out of beta, is unrealistic. I don't expect the wreathe to be changed, nor is Wendy made unfun as a whole by a lackluster skill tree. Plus some characters don't even have skill trees yet, and so settling for "done" rather then "perfect" for something that's just a little disappointing but is otherwise fine, is more then fair in my book.

However: Don't get me wrong, it is very fun to play game designer and think/talk about hypotheticals <3

[Nikki Darks]

A change I personally would like to see with Wreathe is the removal of freshness and replacing it with durability.

Just so that it's possible to equip other people with elixirs and Wreathes when they're about to head out to boss fights or caves.

[DVGMedia]

3 hours ago, Nikki Darks said:

A change I personally would like to see with Wreathe is the removal of freshness and replacing it with durability.

Just so that it's possible to equip other people with elixirs and Wreathes when they're about to head out to boss fights or caves.

That's actually  a suggestion I made once in a video of mine that addressed some of the problems in Wendy's tree. That applying a potion gave it a durability that went to 0 for the duration of the potion  so the player has an idea of how long the effect has left b4 it is gone. 

I found that the rotting really does not affect it much the 10 days is quite alot.  But adding the durability on top of it would be so nice. 

[hyoton123]

18 hours ago, DVGMedia said:

what you mean its literally just gold flint and twigs. We need a head slot speed item. 
 

“We” don’t NEED a head slot speed item, but i’m picking nits there. We definitely dont NEED to give it to wendy, though.

 

Not sure you mean by gold flint and twigs. 

18 hours ago, DVGMedia said:

And like thats the point. Making it consistent requires so many points. Yet people say its ment to only be a throw away item you get rid of after early game.

It does not require a lot of points to be consistent. You already mentioned earlier you were swimming in MGs. All you really need from pipspook line is time and pipspook distance (which takes time and annoyance in a different way than putting it on bare land). After moving graves  TS 2, alignment 3, wreath 2, potion duration 3, pipspook mgs 1, sisturn 3 gives 1 point left over and what seems to me a pretty flexible tree; only core skills there are casket and pipspook distance. One respec to minmax seems good to me (potion is kind of QOL, escape from TS is fine. i tried both.)

18 hours ago, DVGMedia said:

quick picker is like one of woodies greater skills.  I don't get what you mean of it being filler.  Goose has way more filler than what quick picker is.
 

Okay, i’lll take your word for it that quick picker has incredible longevity all the way to endgame. Goose has a lot of filler then.

15 hours ago, Walrusst said:

 at least one of its abilities is wholly unique to it and effective if you can at least dodge 50% of the time, and the others are day long or longer powers that cost you some dryer lint and a paperclip

And sometimes they overlap. -50 damage every 10s for up to half a day and it costs A LOG. and the wreath is a perfectly fine sanity item, and you can make six from a stack with no tech. etc. It’s not even mediocre, it’s just not flashy and a lot of its power comes from cost and being able to put things in a container which is also cheap and zero tech. It’s very *useful* esp for beginners. I think it’s great.