Wraithe's Wreathe is a problem that needs fixing.

[AliceShiki]

3 hours ago, astareus said:

I really, honestly can not believe that a statement like this is being upvoted. These ideas are delusional.

An item has to be bad because it's cheap to get it, but when we suggest it should be better and more expensive, they get defensive and portray to start coping. You guys are bending reality to fit your arguments, and using ideas that are literally keeping the game from being something better just because of personal views. This is insanity beyond comprehension. 

It's literally impossible that an item could be any better just because Wendy is a character that already has "too much"? Wouldn't it be better if we reduce a bit of her power to leave space to allocate some better, more fun and more engaging skills rather than Filler ones that only serves the purpose of putting a band-aid on the real issue.

The devs have openly stated that the effects of Wraith's Wreath are weak on purpose to compensate for the fact it's 7 or so effects with a single skill point.

I'm not being delusional nor bending reality nor adding my personal views to the discussion, I'm just telling you what the devs said during the beta, that's all. Take it for what it is.

[SilverSpoon]

1 hour ago, AliceShiki said:

The devs have openly stated that the effects of Wraith's Wreath are weak on purpose to compensate for the fact it's 7 or so effects with a single skill point.

Even if that was the intention of the devs, I don't like the fact that it denies the possibility of a new playstyle for Wendy as not only a combat character but also a potion mastery character.

Wraith's Wreath was a unique piece that I was particularly expected in Wendy's skill tree, but in the end it ended up being easily replaced by other gear at the end game. Wouldn't it have been better to split Wraith's Wreath into multiple skill points so that it gets stronger gradually, or just make it stronger and unlocking it at 3 skill points? I think cheap Meat Effigy is not fun than Wraith's Wreath.

Also, the fact that Wraith's Wreath still doesn't support rift elixir seems like it was left in a WIP state to me.

[BattleOzze]

2 hours ago, SilverSpoon said:

Wraith's Wreath was a unique piece that I was particularly expected in Wendy's skill tree, but in the end it ended up being easily replaced by other gear at the end game.

So you want Klei to make Wraith's Wreath stronger than any other end gear? Cool.

[DVGMedia]

7 minutes ago, BattleOzze said:

So you want Klei to make Wraith's Wreath stronger than any other end gear? Cool.

Thats what you are taking from it.

Thing is we just want it to be more competitive. It doesn't need to be an alarming clock where its the best in slot item for the character. 
It just needs to have things it can do. That the player can find valuable.

Like one of the best changes to the wreath right now would be to make it so that vigor provides a 10 percent speed buff.. Doing so is not too crazy strong.  Its a sacrifice of the head slot. But it provides a lot of qol.  while being able to keep wendys niche.  Its weaker than other speedsters so she will never overtake them. and she also needs to sacrifice a head slot for it. that in itself would not only combat nightshade as the only potion worth using the wreath for. And, It would make it much more useful in a later game world.

Even providing super potion usage would make the wreath slighty more viable in late game. What should luminous wrath and cursed vex do for wearers? Im not sure.

Maybe curse vex on wendy gives her 20% chance to spawn shadow tentacles with shadow planar weapons.(wurt has this at 50% with her mudslinger but on any attack from her and her merms). This would synergize with her new cursed vex potion with abby. Without needing to rely on  using weaker weapons. And, it would  work on a beefalo only if you have the nightmare saddle.

Luminous Idk what would work with it? maybe make it become a reverse vex.  Where wendy provides a 30% dmg and planar buff to only ghosts on targets she hits with lunar weapons.  It would certainly make gestalt form and the bigspooks/ vengful ghost more interesting.

Now here is the thing would those usages of the wreath be better than using The cowl or brightshade armor?
It really depends.
And thats the point it should be competitive so that way people get different values from each item and one does not overshadow the other.

Because equipment is a choice  you will need to be wearing the wreath  and have the potions for yourself as well as using proper weapons for these effects. 
Which would leave you weaker to certain enemies. But provides more rewards.

doesn't that sound at least more fun since you now have choices?

[SilverSpoon]

46 minutes ago, BattleOzze said:

So you want Klei to make Wraith's Wreath stronger than any other end gear? Cool.

Adorable.

The problem with Wraith's Wreath is that it's in the "The gear weaker than any other end gear so barely worth using in the endgame" category. 

About good gear example, Wigfrid's Commander's Helm has planar defense, plus knockback protection and durability regeneration, which makes it worth using for Wigfrid compared to other endgame gear. Wormwood's Bramble Husk was also in this category, but that's why they created Brambleshade Armor. Similarly, Pre-skill tree Walter's slingshot was a very problematic piece of equipment to use in the endgame, but now it's a lot of fun to use at any stage.

My other personal complaint is that Woodies Hardwood Hat should have some initiative like "Able equipped even in Wareform and still have some defensive effect".

I don't like character's unique items would replaced "Planar gear" in the endgame.

[Edible Coal]

16 hours ago, AliceShiki said:

For those that aren't aware, the item is purposefully undertuned because it's 7 effects or so in a single perk.

Yes, none of the effects are particularly amazing, that's by design. It's why you can get all those effects with only 1 perk.

If you don't feel like any of those perks are worth the skill point, then just get a different skill. There are clearly people here who get mileage out of this item, so it seems to be doing its job.

me when i have to spend two point for this silly item
( wow revive butterfly is too strong)

[BattleOzze]

20 minutes ago, DVGMedia said:

It just needs to have things it can do. That the player can find valuable.

Except it already have things to do? Moggles? 
 

 

22 minutes ago, DVGMedia said:

Like one of the best changes to the wreath right now would be to make it so that vigor provides a 10 percent speed buff.. Doing so is not too crazy strong.  Its a sacrifice of the head slot. But it provides a lot of qol.  while being able to keep wendys niche.  Its weaker than other speedsters so she will never overtake them. and she also needs to sacrifice a head slot for it. that in itself would not only combat nightshade as the only potion worth using the wreath for. And, It would make it much more useful in a later game world.

Well, have you actually tried vigor? I did, in a fight against bee queen. And being able to move around without honey slow in marble armor felt amazing. Pretty sure there is more great uses for that. 10 percent speed buff is... boring. Sorry.

 

26 minutes ago, DVGMedia said:

Even providing super potion usage would make the wreath slighty more viable in late game

I've had an idea that super potions should lock player in 0 and 100% of sanity for like 8 minutes, but whatever, not sure if it even needed.

 

31 minutes ago, DVGMedia said:

And thats the point it should be competitive so that way people get different values from each item and one does not overshadow the other.

No, it shouldn't. None of the pre-rift gear should feel like it's better or as good as post-rift gear. Othervice, what is the point of post-rift gear even?

 

34 minutes ago, DVGMedia said:

doesn't that sound at least more fun since you now have choices?

Again, choice to wear Wreathe for the rest of the game? No, it's not fun.

[DVGMedia]

33 minutes ago, BattleOzze said:

Except it already have things to do? Moggles? 
 

 

Well, have you actually tried vigor? I did, in a fight against bee queen. And being able to move around without honey slow in marble armor felt amazing. Pretty sure there is more great uses for that. 10 percent speed buff is... boring. Sorry.

 

I've had an idea that super potions should lock player in 0 and 100% of sanity for like 8 minutes, but whatever, not sure if it even needed.

 

No, it shouldn't. None of the pre-rift gear should feel like it's better or as good as post-rift gear. Othervice, what is the point of post-rift gear even?

 

Again, choice to wear Wreathe for the rest of the game? No, it's not fun.

 It can do both having 10 percent speed would help alot outside of that 1 combat situation. Vigor does actually affect sandstorm. But then you know goggles. And you can't see. I dont see why they should remove the weight difference but they should add speed to it. It may sound boring but you would love it.

There's a reason why there are different insulation items and they all do different things it's important to have variety in equipment and the wreath can provide that variety. It's not better than some but It has it's use. 

Worm also has this idea of a pre rift item becoming post so worm can use his armor skills The bramblehusk to brambleshade It's a pre-rift item that's upgraded with post rift stuff so that way wormwoods can still maintain their skill tree that would be no different with Wendy and her potions and wreath 

[Hungry French]

On 20.04.2025 at 21:49, Nikki Darks said:

Пожалуйста, ради всего святого... Сделайте так, чтобы мы могли пить эликсиры, не используя Венец Вритры.

Из-за этого эликсиры становятся гораздо менее привлекательными и неудобными в использовании по какой бы то ни было причине.

Просто сделайте эликсиры расходными материалами, как лакомства, и всё, эликсиры внезапно станут хорошими.

У этого предмета ужасная статистика, он портится, это предмет для слота головы; он блокирует эликсиры в слоте головы, который мог бы быть чем-то с лучшей статистикой...

The wendy main tragedy

[Nikki Darks]

2 hours ago, Hungry French said:

The wendy main tragedy

I main Willow and Wickerbottom.

[Hungry French]

1 minute ago, Nikki Darks said:

I main Willow and Wickerbottom.

I'd be surprised if it was Wilson.

[hyoton123]

6 hours ago, SilverSpoon said:

About good gear example, Wigfrid's Commander's Helm has planar defense, plus knockback protection and durability regeneration, which makes it worth using for Wigfrid compared to other endgame gear.

Okay let's not get crazy here, the commanders helm is pretty much only good for the knockback resistance once you get the aligned helms and/or you just leave crown on because it's wigfrid. It has a niche.

 

(Wraith wreath has a niche with cheap jellybeans, vastly better throughput jellybeans, no nitre booster shot, moggles, and whatever distilled vengeance does (does the damage reveal rictus?). the wreath does what it needs to do. and adding 10% speed would catapult it to the top of the list, with vigor mortis being crazy cheap)

[DVGMedia]

1 hour ago, hyoton123 said:

10% speed would catapult it to the top of the list, with vigor mortis being crazy cheap)

That's why I'm thinking the 10 percent is good enough to really make it just good enough. It would be nice to have affinity synergy. 

But I'm sure people will go for it with just the speed buff. 

Now we just need to make the sisturn more attractive. And I think that would balance out Wendy's tree where each point feels valuable Instead of it just being I guess I'll grab this.  And I've already posted this earlier with my suggestion. Of turning the boss effect it has now into a potion.  And make it so different flowers gives Abby and the sisturn different effects 

 

[Dingle]

1 hour ago, hyoton123 said:

(Wraith wreath has a niche with cheap jellybeans, vastly better throughput jellybeans, no nitre booster shot, moggles, and whatever distilled vengeance does (does the damage reveal rictus?). the wreath does what it needs to do. and adding 10% speed would catapult it to the top of the list, with vigor mortis being crazy cheap)

For a single insight point, no less.

In hindsight it would have been cool to have the wraiths wreath perk line just be dedicated to the wreath.

First point lets you make the crown, point after lets you have access to some potions. Another point for more potions. One last point to let you use super elixirs.

Then all the effects for the later points could have been stronger, too.

Having any kind of design that took up too much insight seemed pretty strongly opposed to the beta forum at the time, though. They wanted a cheap, open tree where you could get all the good perks, no filler, AND powerful perks on top of that. That's not how balance works, though, generally.

[DVGMedia]

6 minutes ago, Dingle said:

For a single insight point, no less.

It takes 2 since it requires prerequisite skills that may not be as useful to the player if they don't go shadow. 

Since Wendy's tree is filled with filler and a strong final perk per branch I think it's valid to say it costs 2 

[Dingle]

Just now, DVGMedia said:

It takes 2 since it requires prerequisite skills that may not be as useful to the player if they don't go shadow. 

Since Wendy's tree is filled with filler and a strong final perk per branch I think it's valid to say it costs 2 

Sure.

[DVGMedia]

3 minutes ago, Dingle said:

Sure.

It still doesn't really go into the aspects of it soft requiring  the pipspook branch as well  because without it one quest gets you the wreath and maybe 1 weak potion.  And you only get 3 more glories for 2 points there yet 12-13 more if you spend 3

Oh and if you want the effects to last longer maybe spend 3 points on potions to get that as well. 4 if you want to gamble

So that is like 8 points to make a non late game item fairly consistent. 

[Bumber64]

9 hours ago, DVGMedia said:

Like one of the best changes to the wreath right now would be to make it so that vigor provides a 10 percent speed buff.. Doing so is not too crazy strong.  Its a sacrifice of the head slot.

Magi + walking cane + road + this + WX modules.

Then all we need is a 10% speed boost food. 10% isn't crazy strong, after all. It could be a fun Warly thing.

[hyoton123]

56 minutes ago, DVGMedia said:

That's why I'm thinking the 10 percent is good enough to really make it just good enough. It would be nice to have affinity synergy.

The idea is just too good for a 1 mg/honey craft. It’s kinda bad early but is big with multiplicative movement stacking. I get the idea but i think the potion is currently pretty much as powerful as the cost implies (a minor convenience for people like me who cant stand the idea of training yet another beefalo, and convenience on bq and spider webs). 

56 minutes ago, Dingle said:

Having any kind of design that took up too much insight seemed pretty strongly opposed to the beta forum at the time, though. They wanted a cheap, open tree where you could get all the good perks, no filler, AND powerful perks on top of that. That's not how balance works, though, generally.

Yeah, i respect the beta players for shaping the final product we got because i frankly love it, but the design recommendations out of there were, bluntly, atrocious. I cant believe gestal abigail could hit 400 damage at one point. 250+100 planar potion every few seconds feels like an unbelievable luxury. Same for sisturn 3, i love what klei did with the animations to show sisturn 3 is on and the reduced healing encouraging me to play abigail smarter, but it was atrocious to get there.

 

Ironically, i find myself wishing for petal purification back.

[DVGMedia]

12 minutes ago, hyoton123 said:

The idea is just too good for a 1 mg/honey craft. It’s kinda bad early but is big with multiplicative movement stacking. I get the idea but i think the potion is currently pretty much as powerful as the cost implies (a minor convenience for people like me who cant stand the idea of training yet another beefalo, and convenience on bq and spider webs). 

The cost is also it's competition. Nightshade is the best potion to use the wreath with. If you are using this you are not using nightshade.

If using this for combat you are not using the defense  or healing. And 10 percent speed doesn't get past any important dodge points except for maybe stage 2 bloom worm

I think it makes it fair since the downside of potions is that you can only have 1 effect active that's why I think it should have the 10 percent as well as what it does now with heavy items. it just makes sense. It's a speed potion. But it doesn't give speed?  

It's better off later because night shade falls off thanks to moon storms to where the wreath becomes pointless. So giving it that small amount would be nice to have as an alternative.

It is an early game speed boost that isn't beefalo 

[hyoton123]

20 hours ago, DVGMedia said:

The cost is also it's competition. Nightshade is the best potion to use the wreath with. If you are using this you are not using nightshade.

NSN is obviously good with it, but healing 40 hp for 1 MG/1 gland is insane value. (healing 5 hp per second is also insane value, which I think comfortably means 3/7 of the potions are actually extremely good. and if you're using wreath there's no reason not to use unyielding draught, again it being so cheap...).

 

20 hours ago, DVGMedia said:

If using this for combat you are not using the defense  or healing. And 10 percent speed doesn't get past any important dodge points except for maybe stage 2 bloom worm

Again, the point is that vigor mortis is so cheap, there would no reason not to just reapply afterwards. Or just heal like you do normally, without using the wreath. Maxed out speed would put it at just below rider+glossamer. I don't like that for what is basically a zero cost potion that you are going to use 100% of the time out of combat and is debatably one of, if not the, best in combat

 

That's the same reason you don't get rewarded for overfarming MGs now: yeah you can farm them all you want, but it's pointless. Just get the amount you need, and stop getting more.

20 hours ago, DVGMedia said:

It's a speed potion. But it doesn't give speed?  

Ghastly experience, NSN and the shield potions don't work 1-1 with abby's versions, either. The only potions that do work similarly are the healing ones.

20 hours ago, DVGMedia said:

It's better off later because night shade falls off thanks to moon storms to where the wreath becomes pointless. 

Look, one I don't love keeping moonstorms up all the time, but two it's still perfectly applicable underground.

 

I want to address something you had said about how "too much healing" got sisturn 3 nerfed.  Bosses in dst are extremely not tuned to handle 20 (21?) hp regen a second on players. The point was not quantity, it was about whether it's reasonable to leave abigail up to hold or kill bosses because she's taking 1/2 of the damage that she was expected to. as a follower. Same thing here. It is not reasonable to expect that much value from something that is extremely easy to cheese with barely any setup.

 

EDIT: to be clear, vigor mortis is a bad wraths wreath potion as is, the nicest thing i can say about it being that it isn't totally useless. But bad things can exist.

[DVGMedia]

58 minutes ago, hyoton123 said:

EDIT: to be clear, vigor mortis is a bad wraths wreath potion as is, the nicest thing i can say about it being that it isn't totally useless. But bad things can exist

But would making it slightly better really be a problem? It gives another option for people to use in day to day. 

You give all these reasons to not buff it citing that bad items exist. But it doesn't follow the same rules as bad items. Tiers of items are important because a player can be in different  parts of a game and may not be able to have the highest tier of item all the time. Hence why those are infinitely more useful. 

Vigor on the wreath may provide that slightly with just 2 instances in the game. 

And you justify that enough because of its cost. 

But shouldn't we make it more viable than just that? 

I can occasionally use cheaper worse items and I appreciate them for existing.  But the instances of I wish I had vigor! Are really not that often for what it currently does. 

Think of the combos. You can make a player have walking cane speed with a woodie and a Wendy right out of the gate. 

That would actually be things people want And ask for 

1 hour ago, hyoton123 said:

Ghastly experience, NSN and the shield potions don't work 1-1 with abby's versions, either. The only potions that do work similarly are the healing ones.

I know they don't however the effects are visible and obvious.    A player would reasonably assume that drinking the speed potion would give speed.  If it doesn't  give the obvious then there should be an obvious tell as to what the potion does. And no the player quotes don't count for this. Despite Wendy mentioning heavy heart. 

[DVGMedia]

2 hours ago, hyoton123 said:

Maxed out speed would put it at just below rider+glossamer. I don't like that for what is basically a zero cost potion that you are going to use 100% of the time out of combat and is debatably one of, if not the, best in combat

 Maxed out for a player is road cane magi and hopefully this hat. Being 30 25 20 and 10 that's all items together where you need to spend resources to place roads and have 3items that don't provide protection  while also having only your base inventory not many really sacrifice  Storage for the magi in the first place. Only in combat. And then you also have no armor in this setup. There's alot of competition here and one chooses to do that it's not like it's not balanced.  In the way the game balances things so I again ask why is that a problem?

[JustAPineapple]

Personally I find the wreathe and Wendy's skill tree as a whole, really boring. Especially compared to skill trees like Wormwood's and Willow's, and probably more, but those two are the only ones I've played thus far.

 

Wormwood's in particular caters to multiple playstyles and I find myself doing very different skill tree set ups every time I play him. Namely the Summons, Plant Crafting, Sleepy Mushrooms, and Bramble perks feel very fun to pick and choose from because they're all very unqiue and, imo, never stop being useful.

 

I bring this up, because in comparison, I Unno I just think Wendy's is bland? I agree with DVG that a lot of them step on each others toes. Im generally fine with the "do more of what the chatacter already did" perks, which to me, is Abigail combat, which is good for those who like using her in boss fights and want to squeeze out more DPS.

But those kinds of perks, while needed for those who enjoy that aspect of wendy, or any other chatacter, are never the most interesting perks to me as bossfighting in dst does not interest me, I vastly prefer the rest of the game. (Which isn't a criticism towards dst having boss fights, while I'm sure there are plenty of criticism to be made, it just isn't my cup of tea.)

But there is of course the other, imo, much more prominent use case for Abigail, mob farming! Be it farming spider's, monkeys, or bees, mass recourse collection is what I use abigail for. But, no buffs to abgiail the skill tree offers make her better at it really? I mean, shadow does, hypothetically, but its so overkill it becomes pointless. Abigails already good at it after all, especially with potion support. Which is to say, none of the Abigail perks are for me, nor would any hypothetical Abigail perk be for me, because that aspect of her kit doesn't need to be better imo.

So whats new non Abigail perks are there? Well theres a lot of mourning glory farming, too much imo, you can have friendly ghosts that are stationary Abigails..? And thus redundant? Like genuinely what am I missing here? I thought initally that they could be used as a fun way to autofarm mobs, kinda like off screen voltgoat farms, but because you need to be nearby (unless im missing something?) they're made redundant by Abgial, who again, does everything they do better..? So i I think it's boring. Maybe instead of being combat focused they could provide a slow but steady source of mourning glory, maybe in place of the mini game buffs? Taking a recourse and time investment to set up intially, but providing an alternative to the repetitive pipspook mini game? But really anything other then combat minion spawners would have been nice.

And then there's the wreathe and revival crafts, now I'm going to immediately put the revival crafts in the bin because like yeah while cheaper revives is useful, revives are both already cheap (especially for wendy because of how easy you can farm monkeys for beard hair.) and something other chatacters do too, like clock grandma and wortox.

The wreathe though? Banger concept, drinking elixirs for utility effects is incredibly flavorful, but I wish it wasn't a bunch of minor things for one point, and was instead fleshed out into its own perk series in place of the revives. Its a fun enough thing to be a optional core part of her kit that investing into would leave you with too few points to get abigail to her full potential.

As the wreathe stands now though? The effects besides nightvision are too niche and minor for me to ever use them, if im moving marble a quick temporary beefaloo for the cost of some gold for the bell and pigskin for the saddle is always an option, and you really only need to made a saddle and bell once and your set carrying heavy things forever. The healing ones are nice but food heals are So cheap and abundantly available, but stocking up on nonperishing healing is lovely. The defensive and recoil ones are in my mind like, squarely gimmick territory, like yes lategame items like bone armor eclipse them, but so does a football helm and healing food. The use cases for thorns on wendy are the samw use cases for thorns on Abigail, which is infinity more effective so, again, why bother?

My personal ideal wreathe would be utility all the way down, combats covered by abigial, give me weird fun perks! Lean into mourning glory being a mass producable jack of all trades recourse you can spend on stuff like light or bug nets (I'll get to that later) and healing, maybe give the defensive elixirs weather and temp based resistances, so it can be a sorta swiss army knife headpiece? It doesn't have to be that specfically, just something a bit more unqiue, useful, and developed, ala Wormwoods summons, or Willows utility spells.

Beyond all that, there are some things I do like about the skill tree. I like how reviving butterfly's synergizes both with nightmare Abigail (as it fuels her sacrafices) and the lune blossoms perk (as it makes farming lune blossom trees to use with the sisturn less tedious, because you can effectively substitute mourning glory for bug nets) which I like a lot! I want more of that.

Ultimately this is all my opinion and I don't at all expect the skill tree to be changed at this point. And at the end of the day, while disappointing, none of this is really that big of a deal, I have other characters to play whom I like a lot.

But yeah the wreathe is underwhelming

Also apologies for any typos or awkward phrasing, dyslexia is a devilish thing.

[Bumber64]

11 hours ago, hyoton123 said:

NSN is obviously good with it, but healing 40 hp for 1 MG/1 gland is insane value. (healing 5 hp per second is also insane value, which I think comfortably means 3/7 of the potions are actually extremely good. and if you're using wreath there's no reason not to use unyielding draught, again it being so cheap...).

I presume Wormwood can also benefit from it. +5 health/sec is over twice as fast as jelly beans, and five times compost wrap.

People forget that the wreath isn't restricted to Wendy.