Wraithe's Wreathe is a problem that needs fixing.

[FillerText]

It does look like a strangely modest item in spite of having possibly one of the most interesting mechanics attached to it. It's technically balanced(top hat, regen, night vision), but kinda seems like a missed opportunity for a variety of cool things they could do with it.

[AliceShiki]

For those that aren't aware, the item is purposefully undertuned because it's 7 effects or so in a single perk.

Yes, none of the effects are particularly amazing, that's by design. It's why you can get all those effects with only 1 perk.

If you don't feel like any of those perks are worth the skill point, then just get a different skill. There are clearly people here who get mileage out of this item, so it seems to be doing its job.

[hyoton123]

1 hour ago, AliceShiki said:

For those that aren't aware, the item is purposefully undertuned because it's 7 effects or so in a single perk.

And, you can store all the drinks and wreath synth mats in a container. Theres a lot of good things about it.

[Siren11]

20 hours ago, Dingle said:

The one thing I would really like is letting you take the wreath off, then put it back on, without losing the elixir effect entirely. That is, taking it off would make it so you're not getting the elixir effect, but it doesn't vanish entirely if you're only taking it off for a moment.

I also really, really want this. I constantly swap between head slot items on autopilot, so I’m gonna keep losing the elixir effects until it changes or I break myself of the habit. Plus I’m not necessarily good enough in the Ruins to do everything without armor and a backpack, so having to constantly backtrack to grab my stuff is super annoying. I also wish there was a timer to let you know when the elixir will run out. I keep getting jumpscared by the darkness.

I’ve been using the Wreath a lot in my Wendy Lights Out world. It’s awesome. But in a regular world, especially if I’m not rushing the ruins, I don’t think I’d ever pick it up.

[WilsonHiggs]

2 hours ago, AliceShiki said:

For those that aren't aware, the item is purposefully undertuned because it's 7 effects or so in a single perk.

Yes, none of the effects are particularly amazing, that's by design. It's why you can get all those effects with only 1 perk.

If you don't feel like any of those perks are worth the skill point, then just get a different skill. There are clearly people here who get mileage out of this item, so it seems to be doing its job.

According to op, choosing 1 skill point is enough sacrifice...

As said above, elixirs and morning glory takes 1 slot with the correct skill point so you can store a lot of situational but useful perks without sacrificing anything since you are already carrying the basket with the elixirs to empower abi

1 hour ago, Siren11 said:

I also really, really want this. I constantly swap between head slot items on autopilot, so I’m gonna keep losing the elixir effects until it changes or I break myself of the habit. Plus I’m not necessarily good enough in the Ruins to do everything without armor and a backpack, so having to constantly backtrack to grab my stuff is super annoying. I also wish there was a timer to let you know when the elixir will run out. I keep getting jumpscared by the darkness.

I’ve been using the Wreath a lot in my Wendy Lights Out world. It’s awesome. But in a regular world, especially if I’m not rushing the ruins, I don’t think I’d ever pick it up.

I recommend you to use log suits. You don't need as much armor since abi can scare clockworks

[Siren11]

2 minutes ago, WilsonHiggs said:

I recommend you to use log suits. You don't need as much armor since abi can scare clockworks

I’m using log suits. It doesn’t fix the issue of it being annoying. Plus you can carry the mats for a bunch of football helmets in only two inventory slots. You’d only get two log suits out of the same amount of space. It’s not such an issue for me (I’m pretty decent at avoiding clockworks and not getting hit by bishops thanks to Abby’s scare), but my friends go through so much armor.

[WilsonHiggs]

3 minutes ago, Siren11 said:

I’m using log suits. It doesn’t fix the issue of it being annoying. Plus you can carry the mats for a bunch of football helmets in only two inventory slots. You’d only get two log suits out of the same amount of space. It’s not such an issue for me (I’m pretty decent at avoiding clockworks and not getting hit by bishops thanks to Abby’s scare), but my friends go through so much armor.

Yes and I suggested to don't lose instantly the effect but for ruins body armor is simply more convenient if you are using that headslot.

[DVGMedia]

The night vision is really the main thing thats great about the wreath since its not as jaring a color shift as moggles.  but becomes useless on the surface once moonstorms start.

Draught and vengance basically are not worth it  better off having them as an insurance without armor but only for very specific fights.

healing is healing. and its only decent if you have extra potion duration. It turns a gland 8hp into 40 hp.

And well cure alls really are just a sink. but they do provide 100 hp.  which is a get your own expensive jelly beans.

vigor should just be 10percent speed so that way people could have something to dump into late game. The heavy item reduction is not something people use and is just a gimmick.

and ghastly is just a booster shot.
draught and vengance can save you from multiple hits if but only if they attack on the same frame. But it really is not as forgiving as say bone armor.

if they made this end up acting like how the shield is supposed to where you get a .5 second sheild like how abby does. then these could actually have a niche in day to day.

But atm all it does is turn  any armor into 100 percent reduction every 10 seconds.  Which may be useful in some cases but not in many others.

Ive been doing a long playthrough and ive set up glory farms and really it sucks cause there really is not anything to use them on. The rewards for using her skills provides really nothing.  I wanted something better and more useful to wendy.

the nightshade really is her only thing  That gains the most use.

 

6 hours ago, AliceShiki said:

If you don't feel like any of those perks are worth the skill point, then just get a different skill. There are clearly people here who get mileage out of this item, so it seems to be doing its job.

nah I think we should ask them to do better.  I would have loved it if they combined the line with the potions so that way  they had synergy.   There really is no reward for playing into wendys strengths.

compared to other grindy characters you get rewarded heavily for playing into their strengths however wendy does not.  Because she is  "strong"

19 hours ago, astareus said:

And about the morning glory, that's my whole problem. You can get lots of potions and can keep crafting wreaths, but it would be a lot better if the item was upgradeable or more expensive to give better results, like actually matching enlightened crown's sanity gain in the late game and actually giving a great buff from other potions. Currently all other potions are bad since healing is better done by food and armor is better done by using armors. It's redundant, it's a noob trap, it's an item you use for the first 5 days and then never again.

This should have been what the glory section was about with points going into that. instead of having this strange revive in the perinial alter.
Cause like if you are going into glories you most likely are also going into potions.

Why would i make alters when a heart and a ghastly equal the same thing. and on that why would i make sisturn when i got ghastly?  Literally everything in wendys tree steps on itself which is why its in such dire need of being looked at

 

19 hours ago, NekoSoulx said:

its funny and usefull to use but only during the firsts 16 days. And i understand you want the item to be a mid-late game stuff but thats not happening sorry.

But should that really be the case though?  some early game items still see usage because they have uses outside of their original intention. Like for woodies crafts.  They are not just early game stuff.

[hyoton123]

I swear to god.

[Cuernito.]

1 hour ago, DVGMedia said:

But should that really be the case though?  some early game items still see usage because they have uses outside of their original intention. Like for woodies crafts.  They are not just early game stuff.

I main Winona my friend so i know that some items are only good early game. Basically my girl have to change all her generators later in the game. You dont know how bad its feels to hammer all my generators to get at least half the material i used on them. And i know its not a fair comparison but lets be honest wendy didnt need a skill tree from the start, she was a strong and funny character after her rework so its makes sense her skill tree is not full of strong stuff, and no, i dont want wendy to be stronger, the 3 team spirit skills are good enough to carry the whole skill tree, we dont need more strong late game stuff for wendy girl.

[hyoton123]

Just now, NekoSoulx said:

And i know its not a fair comparison but lets be honest wendy didnt need a skill tree from the start, she was a strong and funny character after her rework so its makes sense her skill tree is not full of strong stuff, and no, i dont want wendy to be stronger, the 3 team spirit skills are good enough to carry the whole skill tree, we dont need more strong late game stuff for wendy girl.

THANK YOU. 3 skill points for a huge day zero power boost that never depreciates at all.

[DVGMedia]

11 minutes ago, NekoSoulx said:

I main Winona my friend so i know that some items are only good early game. Basically my girl have to change all her generators later in the game. You dont know how bad its feels to hammer all my generators to get at least half the material i used on them. And i know its not a fair comparison but lets be honest wendy didnt need a skill tree from the start, she was a strong and funny character after her rework so its makes sense her skill tree is not full of strong stuff, and no, i dont want wendy to be stronger, the 3 team spirit skills are good enough to carry the whole skill tree, we dont need more strong late game stuff for wendy girl.

yeah thats the point but you still change it up to the same thing like generators normally would get upgraded to gemerators late game without skill tree. But now the skill tree does them separately where generators are now shadow while gem are lunar. both have their niche and i can appreciate that. shadow is geared more for earlygame and survival. while lunar is geared for late game.

However none of that happens for wendy maybe if they made the affinity options drinkable and provide different effects would be something to grow towards. Or even made the sisturn like an abby upgrade station that gave different benefits based on what flowers were in there.
But there is nothing to grow towards other than just building a ghost army.  
us wendy players want a sense of progression and use in our abilities. 

[Swiyss]

16 hours ago, WilsonHiggs said:

Common sense would be to make it keep running the time of the effect inside the inventory. Pausing it makes no sense, you use the elixir and you decide how much you take advantage of the effect

The idea is not mine. And anything is better than removing the effect. It's a bad gameplay to lose the effect when you remove it, I don't mind having the timer keep going on inventory, that's actually better than pausing it..

7 hours ago, AliceShiki said:

For those that aren't aware, the item is purposefully undertuned because it's 7 effects or so in a single perk.

Yes, none of the effects are particularly amazing, that's by design. It's why you can get all those effects with only 1 perk.

If you don't feel like any of those perks are worth the skill point, then just get a different skill. There are clearly people here who get mileage out of this item, so it seems to be doing its job.

I really, honestly can not believe that a statement like this is being upvoted. These ideas are delusional.

An item has to be bad because it's cheap to get it, but when we suggest it should be better and more expensive, they get defensive and portray to start coping. You guys are bending reality to fit your arguments, and using ideas that are literally keeping the game from being something better just because of personal views. This is insanity beyond comprehension. 

It's literally impossible that an item could be any better just because Wendy is a character that already has "too much"? Wouldn't it be better if we reduce a bit of her power to leave space to allocate some better, more fun and more engaging skills rather than Filler ones that only serves the purpose of putting a band-aid on the real issue.

26 minutes ago, NekoSoulx said:

I main Winona my friend so i know that some items are only good early game. Basically my girl have to change all her generators later in the game. You dont know how bad its feels to hammer all my generators to get at least half the material i used on them. And i know its not a fair comparison but lets be honest wendy didnt need a skill tree from the start, she was a strong and funny character after her rework so its makes sense her skill tree is not full of strong stuff, and no, i dont want wendy to be stronger, the 3 team spirit skills are good enough to carry the whole skill tree, we dont need more strong late game stuff for wendy girl.

This can't be real..

Because she was already stronger to almost the point of being unbalanced, then we should give really boring and just frustratingly low stats and lazy designs and lack of deep mechanics and unreasonably weak skills. That's basically what you're saying. I have no idea how you got to that conclusion yourself.

[Cuernito.]

3 minutes ago, DVGMedia said:

yeah thats the point but you still change it up to the same thing like generators normally would get upgraded to gemerators late game without skill tree. But now the skill tree does them separately where generators are now shadow while gem are lunar. both have their niche and i can appreciate that. shadow is geared more for earlygame and survival. while lunar is geared for late game.

However none of that happens for wendy maybe if they made the affinity options drinkable and provide different effects would be something to grow towards. Or even made the sisturn like an abby upgrade station that gave different benefits based on what flowers were in there.
But there is nothing to grow towards other than just building a ghost army.  
us wendy players want a sense of progression and use in our abilities. 

I get you know and i feel sorry about it but thats not happening, the true is that all the character are different, i mean look at my main winona for example, she just sucks at early game, sure she is not the worst but every time i use her in pub match i feel like its gonna be impossible for me to accomplish something important, before the skill tree i wanted a way to build a lot faster than all the others but at the end klei didnt give her anything to get her expensive structures easier. My point is not all characters have the same progression, wolfgang starts with all his power, he is pretty solid in any stage of the game and i consider Wendy as an early-mid character, she doesnt start with all her power but she can easily get it during the first days.

Do you get my point? if you really want to play with a great progression system just play walter or play terraria because wendy is fine as she is, she is perfect and if you cant see that maybe you need to change the character. And please dont get me wrong, asking to improve your fav character is good but lets be honest wendy doesnt need more power and if you want a sense of progression with her then lest just call for some nerfs. Maybe instead of getting all her power with team spirit skills now wendy need to find some sort of ectoplasm that only some bosses drop first so now wendy need that to activate the perk, 2 ectoplasm per skill, idk.

[Swiyss]

3 minutes ago, NekoSoulx said:

if you want a sense of progression with her then lest just call for some nerfs.

Uhmm, yeah??????????? That's what we're asking!!!!!!!!!!!! But reasonable ones, not stupid ones like gatekeeping the character into oblivion and disrespectfully putting noob skills on her.

5 minutes ago, NekoSoulx said:

Maybe instead of getting all her power with team spirit skills now wendy need to find some sort of ectoplasm that only some bosses drop first so now wendy need that to activate the perk, 2 ectoplasm per skill, idk

I THINK YOU'RE STARTING TO UNDERSTAND! We want great gameplay, not ridiculous "ghost give more glory 1 2 and 3" to fix the issue of the minigame being insufferably repetitive for some. 

[Cuernito.]

23 minutes ago, astareus said:

then we should give really boring and just frustratingly low stats and lazy designs and lack of deep mechanics and unreasonably weak skills. That's basically what you're saying. I have no idea how you got to that conclusion yourself.

what? I never write such a thing, i put this "its makes sense her skill tree is not full of strong stuff". If you want wendy crown to be better then lets just nerf the strongest part of her skill tree. what about that my friend? do you agree with that?

3 minutes ago, astareus said:

Uhmm, yeah??????????? That's what we're asking!!!!!!!!!!!! But reasonable ones, not stupid ones like gatekeeping the character into oblivion and disrespectfully putting noob skills on her.

I THINK YOU'RE STARTING TO UNDERSTAND! We want great gameplay, not ridiculous "ghost give more glory 1 2 and 3" to fix the issue of the minigame being insufferably repetitive for some. 

Then its fine, go for it, lets nerf team spirit a little bit and buff the crown a little bit, i dont mind, i just want wendy to not be an average anime isekai protagonist because her obsessive fans want wendy to get the absolute power of god.

[Swiyss]

8 minutes ago, NekoSoulx said:

, i just want wendy to not be an average anime isekai protagonist because her obsessive fans want wendy to get the absolute power of god

Yeah me too. That's what I'm trying to say this whole time. Why is her coolest skill (wreath) super weak and lazy without any progression but other skills super broken? And the guy's talking about balance. It's insane.

[Cuernito.]

and please dont wait for me, feel free to make another post asking for team spirit nerfs in return for some buff to Wraith's Wreath, make the devs know a lot of people agree with nerfing team spirit in favor of buffing the Wraith's Wreath.

[DVGMedia]

2 minutes ago, NekoSoulx said:

what? I never write such a thing, i put this "its makes sense her skill tree is not full of strong stuff". If you want wendy crown to be better then lets just nerf the strongest part of her skill tree. what about that my friend? do you agree with that?

Ive always wanted there to be some sort of progression filter on the skills so that way can have skills that are valuable in all parts of the game.  Wendy is already strong earlygame.  with being able to do alot more than regular characters can because of her boosts but she doesn't really get anything out of late game other than  a few extra potions that are purely for combat.

The sisturn could have been a unique thing that made it so that different flowers gave abby different things.  Nothing crazy strong but just more unique things.   

I have a whole topic there discussing that.

Alot of wendys tree steps on each other is the main problem.  potions step on the sisturn line. potions pipspook steps on potions. Graves enables pipspook and potions.
like theres really no choices here.

You can setup a grave yard and never have to bother with the grave skills again because moon storms give you ghosts every night.

pipspooks and potions gives you alot of production but you don't really have alot to use it on.  i mean can just spam healing But then that got the sisturn nerfed. You see theres just like no winning because people have this percived notion of balance. And everything just kind of ends up being boring.

If there was ways to build into what wendy has in the tree that makes synergy then it would be amazing.

Graves and commands actually synergize very well because the haunt ability can create a stack of evil petals from regular so you can just have them easiliy without needing to farm them.

kind of just need more things to build her stuff up. allow us alternate ways to use glories either through more potions or different crafts.
 

1 minute ago, NekoSoulx said:

and please dont wait for me, feel free to make another post asking for team spirit nerfs in return for some buff to Wraith's Wreath, make the devs know a lot of people agree with nerfing team spirit in favor of buffing the Wraith's Wreath.

why do we need to nerf them though? the choice within the tree should be the nerf

make it so have a tough time choosing what skills they want because everything is good So that people want to forgo team spirit for the other stuff instead of nerfing it.
That way its a competetive tree within itself. 

[Swiyss]

3 minutes ago, DVGMedia said:

pipspooks and potions gives you alot of production but you don't really have alot to use it on

So, dvg, it would insane right?!!?? Insane if I didn't talked about this the second I touched her skill tree.. 

The problem with the beta is Klei listening to people that don't know what they're talking about. That's why I was on my other topic asking about pillars (mission, intention, objective) or development to not be changed. Feedback cannot change those pillars. And for me, some of these pillars don't make sense.

Playing Wendy with abi being there on her own shouldn't lock us into lunar affinity, we should be able to customize to have either AOE lunar or AOE shadow. And "boss killer" lunar or shadow. There should be options about having us interact more with abi commands or have abi get her own AI and stuff. 

I have to reiterate here that, instead of getting those things, we got pipspook filler skills and revive useless ones.

Also the cemetery skills could've made her an optional minion master. It could've been so much more deeper.

[Cuernito.]

7 minutes ago, DVGMedia said:

why do we need to nerf them though? the choice within the tree should be the nerf

I was with you till you write that. And why do we need to buff them thought? there are better options within the tree to choose over the Wraith's Wreath.

See we all can play that game, please dont be like that if you wanna buff and nerf wendy im with you, but if you are a big fan that wants wendy to play like kaguya from the anime naruto then im out of this lmao.

One last thing because i had a big idea. What if klei make wendy able to grow a magical tail, and after that she can turn that tail into a big sword, no, the biggest sword ever! and after that she turns into guts from bersek! imagine how cool can be, and that sword can kill any boss in 1 hit but after every death your sword grow bigger eventually covering all your screen? imagine how cool and funny that can be and to add some sort of progression klei should make the tail only grow after abi and wendy take one special elixir at the same time, and that elixir can be make using 1000 mourning glories so you need to farm them a lot! but for a bigger goal.

What about that? do you like my big idea? <3

[DVGMedia]

12 minutes ago, NekoSoulx said:

I was with you till you write that. And why do we need to buff them thought? there are better options within the tree to choose over the Wraith's Wreath.

See we all can play that game, please dont be like that if you wanna buff and nerf wendy im with you, but if you are a big fan that wants wendy to play like kaguya from the anime naruto then im out of this lmao.

why do you assume I want her to be overpowerd?
I just want her to be fun and not boring.
buffing is better than nerfing. Because there is no competition Right now You are telling me there are better options in the tree then tell me what are they?
potions only really work  if you have pipspooks.
and pipspooks only really work well if you have graves.
wreath only really works if you have pipspooks and potions.
So then what are the alternatives? You have sisturn which actively nerfs abby  and her affinity line which is a whole set of other chores in itself and only 1 gets mitigated by going the glory route with being able to revive butterflies.

But you still need to have enough glories to make it work

There is no actual separation of powers.  you need this perk to make this perk feel good if you don't have it then it is just horrible.

none of her abilities are really worth picking  on their own the only ones that are worth picking is team spirit. since it doesn't rely on anything else Its just a upgrade in itself. 

So why make things worse when we can make things better?
Its not a game. there is no pvp or anything there is no one who loses out if wendy gets buffs.

[Cuernito.]

2 minutes ago, DVGMedia said:

So why make things worse when we can make things better?

ahhhh so you agree with my idea of the tail dont you? (x

[Swiyss]

1 minute ago, NekoSoulx said:

ahhhh so you agree with my idea of the tail dont you? (x

You don't have to be sarcastic like that. It's not like making the wreath more useful will randomly destroy her balance and make her one shot bosses now.

At the very minimum we should get more late game stuff for both Wendy and Abi.

[DVGMedia]

5 minutes ago, NekoSoulx said:

ahhhh so you agree with my idea of the tail arent you? (x

I honestly didn't even see that lol

But no thats not what im asking for. have you seen the post i linked earlier?

Thats more of a post about the sisturn but that would make the sisturn a more interesting perk to choose over the wreath.
And it doesn't need other perks to make it work.

For the wreath i really just want vigor to give a 10 percent speed buff  With that im happy.
As for other morning glory crafts There could be more potions that provide utility maybe buffing abbys attack speed or boosting her light radius.
give sisturns 50 percent boss effect as a potion instead
Stuff that fits within the gameplay and the use of her structures and items