Walter is Maxwell?

[Civecilim]

One of my friends brought up how Walter combat is very similar to Maxwell combat in that you prevent the enemy from moving and use your cheaty ranged attack to kill them safely from a distance, and I started thinking about other similarities.

1. They both get +9 inventory, maxwell has his shadow hat, and Walter has Woby (I know that Maxwell's hat technically has 12 slots, but if you didn't have his hat, you would be using shadow chester who has the same inventory, so Maxwell's hat enables you to use normal or ice chester, so Maxwell's hat in essence gives you only +9 (possibly refrigerated) inventory),

2. Woby can now mine and chop like a shadow minion.

3. Maxwell can kind of copy cat the super cool new Woby delivery skill. If someone is at base and there is a shadow chester or magicians chest at base, the maxwell can provide or request items by using his hat.

Not trying to dump on the Walter redesign, I think he's pretty cool, I just thought these similarities were a little spooky. That being said I am aware that both Walter and Maxwell have different advantages. The shadow dash and double foraging perks are pretty neat. Maxwell is still a lot better for chopping trees and collecting grass and stuff.

[Steorra]

22 minutes ago, Balter said:

like what are these people even trying to get at?

it's very easy to understand that some people now think Walter has similar strong level as Maxwell, and the reason of Walter's powercreeping is as similar as Maxwell as well - especially the enemy disabling part.

48 minutes ago, Civecilim said:

1. They both get +9 inventory, maxwell has his shadow hat, and Walter has Woby (I know that Maxwell's hat technically has 12 slots, but if you didn't have his hat, you would be using shadow chester who has the same inventory, so Maxwell's hat enables you to use normal or ice chester, so Maxwell's hat in essence gives you only +9 (possibly refrigerated) inventory),

tbh Woby now is far more stronger than Maxwell's shadow hat. Since the deliver skill could help you a lot to manage your inventory by only costing some chest material. Even this could be considered as "If it was beyond the balance line?" ngl.

[Dyzrespect]

2 minutes ago, Steorra said:

it's very easy to understand that some people now think Walter has similar strong level as Maxwell, and the reason of Walter's powercreeping is as similar as Maxwell as well - especially the enemy disabling part.

If I ever see you in game and you're not playing Maxwell after all of this endless panic about Shadow Prison I'm going to take you to court. You'd think it's an instakill skill with how you gas it up.

 

47 minutes ago, Civecilim said:

One of my friends brought up how Walter combat is very similar to Maxwell combat in that you prevent the enemy from moving and use your cheaty ranged attack to kill them safely from a distance, and I started thinking about other similarities.

It's so cheaty that Walter was the least played character in the game for his 5 years in the game, even with Maxwell's 100% slow in the game, remarkable.

[Walrusst]

7 minutes ago, Dyzrespect said:

If I ever see you in game and you're not playing Maxwell after all of this endless panic about Shadow Prison I'm going to take you to court. You'd think it's an instakill skill with how you gas it up.

It certainly is true maxwell and wanda teams can kill pretty much anything with enough nightmare fuel but I like my daily nightmare fuel consumption to be less then 80.

Basic/easy ways of killing things are fine so long as the relative costs of using these simple methods is high enough that killing the target in a standard way is superior enough to be worth it.
Since like, people who want to use unholy amounts of resources to kill a boss are playing a different game from people with hyper tight combat execution, one where they are racing to make enough stuff to survive rather than trying to masterfully slay everything with a single hambat and if they are feeling rich maybe a rucksack.
 

In that sense, while I'll criticize the volume of CC we have as possibly being excessive, but its not so bad that I dislike our current kit. I'll spitball ideas to make it better, but I'm fine with it.

[Steorra]

12 minutes ago, Dyzrespect said:

If I ever see you in game and you're not playing Maxwell after all of this endless panic about Shadow Prison I'm going to take you to court. You'd think it's an instakill skill with how you gas it up.

I don't think to knew how imbalance the Shadow Prison is need to play Maxwell alot.

I have never touched Maxwell before when my world at day 1000. You know what happened? I switched to Maxwell for a routine bosses killing one day when I feel boring with other characters, and I had easily killed the Bee Queen by only about 5 times tried. The BQ fight would be extremely easy once you know how to trap Bee Queen and her minions separately by using the Shadow Prision.

10 minutes ago, Walrusst said:

but I like my daily nightmare fuel consumption to be less then 80.

the most crazy part is when you fight a boss, your fight could be easily turned from "you VS. the boss" into "you VS. Shadow Creatures" by using Shadow Prison. And your own Shadow Creatures just drop fuels for your Codex Umbra.

And even now we already have ickers for free fuels after Shadow Rift opened.

[Civecilim]

33 minutes ago, Balter said:

Man I hate it when people don’t even support their own arguments, like what are these people even trying to get at?

 

3 minutes ago, Dyzrespect said:

It's so cheaty that Walter was the least played character in the game for his 5 years in the game, even with Maxwell's 100% slow in the game, remarkable.

I didn't intend to provoke anybody, I was just noting an observation I made. That's why I included a disclaimer that I do not hate the Walter redesign. I didn't mean for this to be a "nerf!!!1!! nerf!!!!1!!!" post, I meant for it to be like a small talk post.

There's no "argument," I was trying to "get at" sharing a perspective.

Maxwell's "delivery" requires you to have friends, it is nice that Walter provides a delivery option to people without any friends (that play this game)

[Evelo]

It's okay, homogenization in character design is a good thing...................

[Civecilim]

55 minutes ago, Evelo said:

It's okay, homogenization in character design is a good thing...................

I think Maxwell and Walter are the only guys with plus inventory, right? Excluding things like Wigfrid Song sack, just regular old inventory.

Come to think of it, I'm very surprised that Wortox didn't get any kind of krampus sack ability.

[DinsdaleP]

3 hours ago, Civecilim said:

One of my friends brought up how Walter combat is very similar to Maxwell combat in that you prevent the enemy from moving and use your cheaty ranged attack to kill them safely from a distance, and I started thinking about other similarities.

While it requires open Rifts, you could also add the Gloomerang. Hold the enemy down with Shadow Prison, throw infinite Gloomerangs, win.

 

2 hours ago, Dyzrespect said:

It's so cheaty that Walter was the least played character in the game for his 5 years in the game, even with Maxwell's 100% slow in the game, remarkable.

Walter was a challenge character with a random perks soup up until now. He's still the most boring one, but at least he's usable, or some might even say, useful with the addition of a skill tree.

 

 

[Civecilim]

1 hour ago, DinsdaleP said:

While it requires open Rifts, you could also add the Gloomerang

Maxwell style walter combat is also kind of locked behind rifts because that's when you have access to icky bullets which are the premier 'the enemy is not allowed to move' bullet. Gloomerangs pretty busted. Is gloomerang just better than slingshot? I'm inclined to believe that the slingshot usually does more damage but the gloomerang is so much cheaper to use.

[IAmAFurrz]

the similarities are certainly there lollllll, only difference is i hate walter even more

[_mylilsunshine_]

2 hours ago, Civecilim said:

Maxwell style walter combat is also kind of locked behind rifts because that's when you have access to icky bullets which are the premier 'the enemy is not allowed to move' bullet. Gloomerangs pretty busted. Is gloomerang just better than slingshot? I'm inclined to believe that the slingshot usually does more damage but the gloomerang is so much cheaper to use.

i cite this thing like it's the waltuh bible

anyway, if we're comparing same stage progression, void wrap&cowl + dreadstone round (not cursed because of the RNG) beats gloomerang by about 68dps. however, the void wrap requires standing still and ramping up before reaching that peak. you can also argue that slow-down and/or icky round allows that to happen, but at that point you're investing more than gloomerang.

if we're talking consistency, jelly grip + dreadstone beats gloomerang by 24 dps.

are these differences meaningful? yes. but think about what you have to do for that difference:

1. you have to play walter, which might not your favourite, or you'll have to learn a new playstyle

2. you have to pick at least 2, or 3, slingshot mods (2 if you want to forgo the frame)

3. you can't play other characters, who can just use a gloomerang

4. you can't pick other walter skill, which can be much more exciting. or you'll have to figure out how to stretch your points, etc.

why did i repeat point 1 and 2 with 3 and 4? because of opportunity cost, i can't have something without sacrificing something, even unknowingly.

 

 

 

Just now, IAmAFurrz said:

the similarities are certainly there lollllll, only difference is i hate walter even more

then why do you chime in walter's discussion so often? do you want to mold him into something different, that you like? or do you not want him to be something good, for everyone?

 

[Hyuyu]

Compared to Maxwell, Walter has a rather big cost to whatever he wants to use and :

- You have to pick the proper skills and pass on others

- Ammo has a sustained cost (compared to sitting with a bone helm as maxwell)

- He has to position himself correctly in order to get the firerate buff, otherwise he ends up performing about as well as a 1x-1.25x dmg character

- He's not just spamming right click and letting duelists do his job unlike Maxwell

- If we're talking range cheesing, anyone with gloomarang can safely do it/ wanda by herself existing is half a range cheese

 

In the end the only big similarity is woby is storage + she can help pick up like harvesters essentially, not so much lol

[Chewabacca]

2 minutes ago, Hyuyu said:

Compared to Maxwell, Walter has a rather big cost to whatever he wants to use and :

- You have to pick the proper skills and pass on others

- Ammo has a sustained cost (compared to sitting with a bone helm as maxwell)

- He has to position himself correctly in order to get the firerate buff, otherwise he ends up performing about as well as a 1x-1.25x dmg character

- He's not just spamming right click and letting duelists do his job unlike Maxwell

- If we're talking range cheesing, anyone with gloomarang can safely do it/ wanda by herself existing is half a range cheese

 

In the end the only big similarity is woby is storage + she can help pick up like harvesters essentially, not so much lol

Not to disagree with the meat of this, but another similarity is that Woby can now mine and chop for you. It did give me kind of a baby Maxwell feeling.

[Hyuyu]

Just now, Chewabacca said:

Not to disagree with the meat of this, but another similarity is that Woby can now mine and chop for you. It did give me kind of a baby Maxwell feeling.

Yeah, it's pretty similar forgot about that one because the skilltree is too tight for me to grab it 

That's a bit of a baby Maxwell feel, but easier gathering will always be welcome in this game for me so I don't mind it

[YouKnowWho142]

2 minutes ago, Chewabacca said:

Not to disagree with the meat of this, but another similarity is that Woby can now mine and chop for you. It did give me kind of a baby Maxwell feeling.

I wouldn't really say it's comparable, you can say that every character is a baby maxwell because pigmen can chop trees (can't mine rocks, but I'm sure you get the idea) and in fact having a pigman chop trees gets more value out of a single piece of meat than Woby does even if you turn that piece of meat into Woby snacks since it drains her hunger so quickly and pigmen are only based on a timer

[Civecilim]

2 hours ago, YouKnowWho142 said:

you can say that every character is a baby maxwell because pigmen can chop trees

Pig taming not really a character specific ability though, so it doesn't affect the "feel." I've also thought of Wurt as a fish Maxwell except you need to build huts for your guys and you can have more guys than Maxwell. Having a mining minion is kind of unique.

[Edible Coal]

2 minutes ago, Civecilim said:

Pig taming not really a character specific ability though, so it doesn't affect the "feel." I've also thought of Wurt as a fish Maxwell except you need to build huts for your guys and you can have more guys than Maxwell. Having a mining minion is kind of unique.

i dont remember wurt have the ability to "cage" enemies

[Civecilim]

30 minutes ago, Edible Coal said:

i dont remember wurt have the ability to "cage" enemies

She does not. Unless you have so many merms that the enemy instantly dies/cannot move. She also has triple the health.

[linabagel]

If you don't include new players, I think so.

For players who are familiar with the flow of the game, it is easy to open the rift before 20 days, (Sometimes older players default to ignoring the pre-rift content when discussing it because it's too familiar and easy for them.) this also makes some resources very cheap, previous resource constraints are hardly a criterion for evaluating characters.

From that perspective, the two characters fight in very similar ways, the feature of "material delivery" has also become more convenient with the update of the game, at least in the behavioral core, I think it's the same.

[NPCMaxwell]

For me this is a random kind of wholesomeness:

Scout boy learning to deal with a different kind of wilderness from a kind of unexpected Mentor.

[Catuna_]

Walter has a quote asking Maxwell to teach him "magic tricks"
"Maybe you could teach me some magic tricks? I'm a quick learner!"
The "Walter is just bad Maxwell" take has been one I've heard a couple times before and I guess there's a bit of an overlap, but I think that Walter is a lot more tame when it comes to the need to interact with the game, it's kinda funny though considering they're polar opposites personality wise

[Mysterious box]

6 hours ago, YouKnowWho142 said:

I wouldn't really say it's comparable, you can say that every character is a baby maxwell because pigmen can chop trees (can't mine rocks, but I'm sure you get the idea) and in fact having a pigman chop trees gets more value out of a single piece of meat than Woby does even if you turn that piece of meat into Woby snacks since it drains her hunger so quickly and pigmen are only based on a timer

 

4 hours ago, Civecilim said:

Pig taming not really a character specific ability though, so it doesn't affect the "feel." I've also thought of Wurt as a fish Maxwell except you need to build huts for your guys and you can have more guys than Maxwell. Having a mining minion is kind of unique.

Personally I'd say a closer Maxwell alternative would be Winona. Her catapults can mine and such and her Wobots can clean up a area placing the goods in chests or backpacks. Finally her telebrella can send the goods back to base.

[Civecilim]

21 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Personally I'd say a closer Maxwell alternative would be Winona.

It is extremely difficult to find things that can pick up items for you, which is a nice wobot perk. It feels like a lot of the game is picking up rocks and logs. The shadow reaper also makes it so you have to spend time picking grass and sticks off the floor. The lazy forager is nice but it's not enough.

[Mysterious box]

32 minutes ago, Civecilim said:

It is extremely difficult to find things that can pick up items for you, which is a nice wobot perk. It feels like a lot of the game is picking up rocks and logs. The shadow reaper also makes it so you have to spend time picking grass and sticks off the floor. The lazy forager is nice but it's not enough.

I feel like people underestimate how good the lazy forager is as it picks things up a lot faster than the alternatives though aside from that there's also Poly Roger who is about as fast as Woby.