Does Walter already stronger than Wolfgang now?

[Peasant]

So it's a view that I had seen recently, people say that now with the skilltree, Walter is almost even better than Wolfgang in all aspects.

STATEMENT: This IS NOT MY VIEW, I do not support or against this view for I do not know whether it's true or not, all the arguements below are copied from other people, I myself DO NOT think Walter should be nerfed, PLEASE do not blame me if this perspective is wrong.

For Battle: Walter now has a ranged dps no less than other characters doing melee attacks, and because Walter is ranged, he got more attack chances as well as better suvivability, and free teleports from shadow Woby, super fast speed from Lunar Woby

For QoL: Walter now travels at a speed faster than butterfly saddle travel beefalo, a packable firepit that is similar to a starcaller, 9 more slots, double picks

For Good Looking: Pinetree Pioneer Hat has more skins than any other item

Is this perspective true? Or is this just people boasting out of thin air?

[Danila6300]

Free teleports? No, teleports consume hunger. Woby has indeed become faster than Beefalo, but she still doesn't take all the damage. There is indeed a portable fire, but I don't see anything wrong with that. 

[SilverSpoon]

I think that people's opinion is wrong.

He still loses his sanity at mach speed if he gets hit once, so the downside will be maintained. And there is no free insta work. Above all, I don't think Walter's DPS is better or even than Wolfgang's.

[Chewabacca]

I mean, define "better". Do you mean faster? In that case, absolutely yes. Wolfgang's niche is combat, not speed, so of course the character that comes with a mount is faster. Do you mean he hits harder/has more DPS than Wolfgang at a comparable point? No. The RNG rounds you're talking about typically take until spring/mid-winter to get access to, because of the rotten egg cost, and their typical damage is equal to that of a fresh hambat. Wolfgang's DPS is still higher. In addition, in order to get the slingshot's DPS fully up and equivalent to melee, Walter has to beat a 22.5k HP boss that can knock him off of Woby--which will quickly lead to him getting pummeled to death by enemies whose damage to him bypasses armor--in one hit. You can definitely make this fight easier on yourself by preparing and grabbing some AOE, but the amount of preparation needed isn't small. The cursed rounds are still Walter's highest DPS round, and they have less DPS than a thulecite club in the hands of a 1x damage character, let alone Wolfgang. I would recommend checking out this Walter DPS post:

[Peasant]

1 minute ago, Chewabacca said:

RNG

Isn't rng the abbreviation of ranged attack? Did I mistyped?

[Chewabacca]

Just now, YXukun said:

Isn't rng the abbreviation of ranged attack? Did I mistyped?

Oh, misunderstood you then. RNG is usually the abbreviation for "random number generation", or luck-based stuff, which the gunpowder rounds, and I guess cursed rounds too, are.

[Peasant]

1 minute ago, Chewabacca said:

Oh, misunderstood you then. RNG is usually the abbreviation for "random number generation", or luck-based stuff, which the gunpowder rounds, and I guess cursed rounds too, are.

Damn I'm dumb

[Dingle]

25 minutes ago, YXukun said:

For Good Looking: Pinetree Pioneer Hat has more skins than any other item

This isn't my opinion, it's just what I heard many, many people say (I won't say where):

Walter should get severely nerfed because he has a lot of Pinetree Pioneer hat skins.

[Cassielu]

Not in every aspects, but yes, Walter is stronger than Wolfgang, and he deserves it.

Nothing needs to change.

[Mysterious box]

33 minutes ago, YXukun said:

For Good Looking: Pinetree Pioneer Hat has more skins than any other item

it has an equal amount of skins as his main skins because his Pinetree Pioneer hat has to remain on theme with his wardrobe to prevent a disconnect it's similar to how Webber and Wilson have a beard skin for each beard.

[Peasant]

8 minutes ago, Dingle said:

This isn't my opinion, it's just what I heard many, many people say (I won't say where):

Walter should get severely nerfed because he has a lot of Pinetree Pioneer hat skins.

 

36 minutes ago, YXukun said:

I myself DO NOT think Walter should be nerfed,

 

[kikia]

In terms of QoL, Walter undoubtedly excels, as QoL fundamentally revolves around which character offers more gameplay mechanics.

As for combat, Walter’s long attack range allows him to kite enemies, granting higher survivability in a sense. However, this playstyle might feel monotonous: every battle tends to follow the same pattern. Wolfgang retains the traditional combat style, but his terrifying attack multiplier ensures he ends fights faster than others. Shorter combat duration translates to higher error tolerance, less damage taken, and reduced armor durability loss — here, quantitative advantages create qualitative superiority.

[Mysterious box]

1 minute ago, kikia said:

As for combat, Walter’s long attack range allows him to kite enemies, granting higher survivability in a sense. However, this playstyle might feel monotonous: every battle tends to follow the same pattern.

I have to disagree here Walter's got a wide variety of rounds and slingshot mods with very varied effects that each change how you experience combat if you feel it's monotonous perhaps consider mixed up your rounds and frames?

[kikia]

4 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

I have to disagree here Walter's got a wide variety of rounds and slingshot mods with very varied effects that each change how you experience combat if you feel it's monotonous perhaps consider mixed up your rounds and frames?

You're absolutely right, and I apologize — perhaps I didn't articulate my point clearly enough.

What I meant to emphasize is that traditional melee combat allows players to engage more deeply with the unique AI behaviors of different Bosses.

[Mysterious box]

2 minutes ago, kikia said:

You're absolutely right, and I apologize — perhaps I didn't articulate my point clearly enough.

What I meant to emphasize is that traditional melee combat allows players to engage more deeply with the unique AI behaviors of different Bosses.

I'd still have to disagree especially if you just don't use slowing rounds at most it gives you a larger kiting window but combat is largely similar again excluding the various layers Walter's weapon and Woby add. This however can change if the Walter player opts to use cheese methods which is what's often showcased when trying to show off the appeal of Walter in videos.

[Chewabacca]

I think it depends on the boss. Deerclops is Deerclops and not much more. Antlion is definitely a boring slog. Others are different. Both Werepig fights have some enemy AI interaction involved, since you have to get close enough to the nightmare one to bait him into destroying the pillars, and the scrappy one throws piles that you have to dodge, which is fun enough. Bee Queen is fun because there's so little tolerance for error and her grumbles flying at max in the last phase are a little faster than a non-aligned Woby. Ancient Guardian is basic but still fun. Moose/Goose and the moslings are more fun IMO but one of the boss fights that Walter definitely has a significant edge on because her annoying yell that knocks weapons out of players' hands does nothing if you're at a good range, and Woby's speed lets you outrun the moslings much more easily. Though the moslings still are a decent threat afterwards because if they gang up on you you're still at risk of getting knocked off Woby even with good armor (with marble it takes 4 ganging up on you for to knock you off Woby if you only let them get one hit off each, but 3 could still do it if you don't immediately run away, and if you are wearing marble, once you've been knocked off you're screwed against the moslings), which means it's still fun. Haven't fought enough other bosses to talk about them.

In general, though, I think Walter is going to be kind of the anti-Wendy: he's good vs big single targets, which are most bosses, but he struggles more against swarms of weaker enemies because they can gang up on him and do enough damage to knock him off Woby more quickly, and also because you're not going to be wearing marble armor as much in your day-to-day life. Two spider warriors hitting Walter with a football helmet at the same time is enough to get him bucked. Hounds are also nearly as fast as a non-aligned Woby (not sure how much the sprint puts her ahead of them, though) and do the same amount of damage as spider warriors. One thing I think about in the "slingshot is just hold F and no kiting" conversations is that actually there is one situation where I very regularly have to kite and bait out enemy attacks, and that's with hounds, because if I don't I'll get bucked off and then chomped to death.

Also, how fun/good the slingshot is depends on how many points you put into it. I know that sounds obvious, but Walter's skill tree is so absolutely jam-packed with value that I actually think in practical terms this update means most players' slingshots will be a little less powerful than they were before this update because there are so many good skills to choose between. I know I'm not spending a point on either the cheap slowdown & electric rounds skill or the advanced frames, which is going to make the slingshot a bit less fun but I don't care because I get the fun back in other areas (2 grass/rope skill I love you, people who say this skill is one of the weaker ones are bonkers). If you really want the slingshot to be as fun as it can be at full potential, you've got to make a trade-off somewhere, which is fine and how it should be, just one that I don't think every Walter player is going to make. 

Sorry, that was way longer than I meant it to be. Just been thinking about this a bit.

[Walrusst]

35 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

I have to disagree here Walter's got a wide variety of rounds and slingshot mods with very varied effects that each change how you experience combat if you feel it's monotonous perhaps consider mixed up your rounds and frames?

Not to mention its pretty well integrated with the exploration and resource spread of the game, caving and his status gameplay go hand in hand, and your aoe is extremely limited prior to the lunar isle.

 

41 minutes ago, kikia said:

You're absolutely right, and I apologize — perhaps I didn't articulate my point clearly enough.

What I meant to emphasize is that traditional melee combat allows players to engage more deeply with the unique AI behaviors of different Bosses.

The one thing I will comment on is once you get good at landing scrappy slingshot hits manually at a distance there are a lot of enemies that don't even know how to aggro on you then. 
Its a little surreal, you actually sometimes have enough distance to dodge attacks from ranged enemies making them seem fair, but also when given limitless distance you will win a fight against a tallbird fortress fairly effortlessly. (Mind you, this isn't a uniquely walter thing, I'll base on the tallbird fortress as willow because her matchup with tallbirds is that one sided.)

Hounds on the other hand feel quite balanced when you aren't abusing a beefalo as walter.
He basically flips damage sponges vs. speed demons in difficulty on its head. Since normally fast squishy enemies are not a problem for anyone who has learned how to dodge one attack then pick off an enemy, but the slingshots poor attack speed on the first hit in a combo makes it so really tight kiting patterns are a dangerous game.

So like, most bosses being slow does make them have hypothetically bad matchups with walter, but this isn't always true.

[Mysterious box]

31 minutes ago, Walrusst said:

Not to mention its pretty well integrated with the exploration and resource spread of the game, caving and his status gameplay go hand in hand, and your aoe is extremely limited prior to the lunar isle.

 

The one thing I will comment on is once you get good at landing scrappy slingshot hits manually at a distance there are a lot of enemies that don't even know how to aggro on you then. 
Its a little surreal, you actually sometimes have enough distance to dodge attacks from ranged enemies making them seem fair, but also when given limitless distance you will win a fight against a tallbird fortress fairly effortlessly. (Mind you, this isn't a uniquely walter thing, I'll base on the tallbird fortress as willow because her matchup with tallbirds is that one sided.)

Hounds on the other hand feel quite balanced when you aren't abusing a beefalo as walter.
He basically flips damage sponges vs. speed demons in difficulty on its head. Since normally fast squishy enemies are not a problem for anyone who has learned how to dodge one attack then pick off an enemy, but the slingshots poor attack speed on the first hit in a combo makes it so really tight kiting patterns are a dangerous game.

So like, most bosses being slow does make them have hypothetically bad matchups with walter, but this isn't always true.

To add on to this Woby's dash also makes boss fights like nightmare werepig feel incredible dashing to the side feels so much better than walking to the side when he lunges at you for example.

[YouKnowWho142]

9 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

To add on to this Woby's dash also makes boss fights like nightmare werepig feel incredible dashing to the side feels so much better than walking to the side when he lunges at you for example.

I'm still quite early into my shadow Walter run, but I feel like the most fun fights with Walter will be the ones where the enemy is fast or have a dodgeable ranged attack. I don't really know why but shooting the slingshot on a teleporting Woby gives me cuphead vibes

[Ugur01]

There was no post like this before the Walter skill tree got an update, but now there is. I wonder why

[Catuna_]

Ultimately these character comparisons are rather pointless and what character is best fit for you depends on what you're trying to do
For the sake of killing bosses as fast as possible, not many characters nor Walter can compete with Wolfgang

[YouKnowWho142]

1 minute ago, Catuna_ said:

Ultimately these character comparisons are rather pointless and what character is best fit for you depends on what you're trying to do
For the sake of killing bosses as fast as possible, not many characters nor Walter can compete with Wolfgang

Character comparisons really harm a lot of characters. Having every character with above average damage being compared to Wolfgang is exhausting. As long as they do not have the exact same playstyle, they should really be allowed to coexist

[Guille6785]

he does indeed stronger than wolfgang

[Balter]

Definitely, let’s nerf Walter some more please. 
 

I propose that Walter should take 4x the sanity drain instead of the standard 2x from hp loss if he is not wearing a pinehat. This will make him a more skill based character rather than a busted beta that everyone with no skill wants.

[xhyom]

Well, if we're going to discuss strengths in these terms and in this psychedelic way, then Wes is much stronger than Wolfgang... At making balloons...? In the same way, basically every character is stronger than Wolfgang since only DPS is his strong point, does it make any sense to compare other things? I would find a character stronger than him if that character had several other perks AND the same DPS.