I don't actually care about character balance or “power creep”

[sealnados]

On 2/6/2025 at 6:24 PM, Y0sH said:

... Seeing sub 30 min Ancient Fuelweaver run times make me and my 4k hours on this game seem like I've spent my time in Weeny-Hut Junior.

huge mood

[Violet Desiree]

 i was just in a server where a walter was burning down trees to keep warm so i summoned a fireball to keep both of us warm then a random trinket spawn that was from abigails little ghost minigame

i just love characters doing stuff that are just their thing thats what skilltrees are attempting to fix to make them unique not just give them power to kill everything in the constant in less than 20 days or some unexplained goal

For example this teamfight there are 2 walters shooting down the cyclops while me and wendy + abigail rush attempt to stun deerclops everyone is doing their own thing even me dying is unique in that i summon bearnie

[PonyOfApocalips]

12 hours ago, Captain_Rage said:

 

 

On 2/6/2025 at 10:34 AM, Tranoze said:

Giving strong power and high ultility for unpopular character is a good move. (Winona). It attract players play winona more.

Giving weaker power for already popular character for the sake of balance is not.(Wigfrid, wendy) what do klei gain from getting less players play Wigfrids and Wendy? Just less players.

For the sake of balance, they made the hardest weapon to make, look at you maul, also the worst weapon to keep.

l mean- how giving character buffs like they did to Wigfrid somehow could nerf her?

[WilsonHiggs]

Balance is important. Not in the sense of every character being as powerful as the others, that isnt fun when we can have different level of powers like wolfgag > wilson > wes to bring variety but to make characters be balanced with content in consideration. 

Doesnt make sense to make a character deal 1000 damage with a spear neither to nuke 4 tiles arround at the cost of a rock. Is hard to add enemies and content if poweful stuff is added. A minimum of balance is needed, is common sense.

[Tranoze]

1 hour ago, PonyOfApocalips said:

 

l mean- how giving character buffs like they did to Wigfrid somehow could nerf her?

It take aways hope. Without skill tree, there are still hope that she can do better vs rift enemies.

And her skill tree doesnt help much vs rift enemies, other than planar defense part, her weapon and armor are weaker than rift gears as rift gears are easily repairable and they provide buff when wearing them in set.

[Hungry French]

The characters are too strong in the team, yes. Not alone.

In addition, UM weakens skill trees.

[Violet Desiree]

2 hours ago, Hungry French said:

n addition, UM weakens skill trees.

UM?

[Cheggf]

2 hours ago, Violet Desiree said:

UM?

Uncompromising Mode

[Aester]

Balance is important. But it's not so much about damage numbers as it is about capabilities per playstyle and setup for them.

in my opinion it is necessary for immersion in the game and a continuous feeling of flow for players of every skill level, when you do not think that you are deliberately holding yourself back with some of the skills. That's what we have Wes for.

i like most of the ideas for characters in the game, but some of them feel like they were done in a BIG hurry.

Btw Warly an A+ tier imo. He can use some buffs but overall he is like almost perfect in terms how you make a good character. Your aversion to being dependent on goat horns may be a symptom of that poor balance, when some characters don't require a setup for most of their upsides AT ALL compared to Warly.

[Guille6785]

2 hours ago, Aester said:

Btw Warly an A+ tier imo

idk if this wasnt clear enough from the post but I think discussion about character “tiers” is useless and a waste of time

[Aester]

34 minutes ago, Guille6785 said:

idk if this wasnt clear enough from the post but I think discussion about character “tiers” is useless and a waste of time

I think you didn't quite understand what I was getting at... Well alright then, 

[Quadratordo]

Surely people don't think that ''balance'' is something as dull as ''every character plays the same as every other character'', right? That's what your ''2021 DST'' example seems to point towards. I've never seen balance like that; for me, it's about giving characters as many unique and fun options as possible, while also not letting said options overlap/make one another obsolete, if they happen to be focal points of what a character's supposed to be about. If they do, then the overlapped character tends to be reduced to a duller version of another, or even just a stepping stone in order to let the ''dominant'' character use the other's kit in addition to their own... charming character personalities and lore justifications can only go so far, and tiering characters is just pointless. As such, I value balance highly... but it seems like there's not even a universal definition for what ''balance'' means in the first place.

On powercreep, I'll say that adding new and above all interesting items that happen to overshadow simple, old-timer staples to the game is hardly a wrong move, so that can be crossed off. However, I have concerns in that an increase in overall options should be accompanied by the addition of new challenges, be it environmental ones or new enemies/bosses, to match; the rifts are a step in the right direction in that regard, but it's not something that can work in half-measures; there has to be enough content to make the jump between pre and post-rift worth it; whether there's enough currently is a matter of opinion, but the more the merrier I say.


Finally, I wish to point out that opinions are shaped by one's own playstyle as much as it is vice-versa; someone who's focused on speedrunning is more likely to value perks and items which aren't compatible with that playstyle less than people who aren't. I'm not pointing fingers of course, though it's obvious why I'm saying this in the first place. I want to remind everyone that we're all more biased than we care to admit, and that experience and skill aren't guarantees of objectivity in this regard.


 

[Guille6785]

1 hour ago, Quadratordo said:

Surely people don't think that ''balance'' is something as dull as ''every character plays the same as every other character'', right? That's what your ''2021 DST'' example seems to point towards.

the point of my example wasn't that balance equals everyone playing the same, it was that a perfectly balanced game does not automatically improve the experience in any meaningful way, using the real world example of when that was indeed the case in DST for a time and nobody even seemed to notice

[Quadratordo]

17 minutes ago, Guille6785 said:

the point of my example wasn't that balance equals everyone playing the same, it was that a perfectly balanced game does not automatically improve the experience in any meaningful way, using the real world example of when that was indeed the case in DST for a time and nobody even seemed to notice

That's the thing though, balance definitely doesn't equal everyone playing the same, as i've pointed out in my previous post; it'd be silly to define the situation back then as ''balanced'', it really was just bland more than anything else. A properly balanced game would mean that every character is both interesting, strong in their own right but far from being a factotum, and is not overshadowed in their own niche(s). Or at least that's what I see as true balance, and in that this case, a balanced game would definitely improve the experience *and* encourage further replayability. I agree with you in that a bunch of grey rocks scenario is terrible, but again, that's not what balance is.

Edit: typos and balance balance balance balance