Wendy doing more damage per hit than wigfrid is wrong

[Jakepeng99]

With the shadow vex, she does around +40% net damage. With a beefalo it is even higher.

It doesnt make much sense she is more powerful than Wigfrid. I think the potion should be reworked where it adds flat planar damage for the vex.

[DVGMedia]

I kind of feel like these topics are kind of disingenuous Because yeah the characters do match similarly in that matter

The entire concept of how the players play them are different. And I think thats important to keep in mind rather than looking at just the numbers.

Wigfrid has way more resiliance than wendy does  and can require much less equipment. While still being able to last in fights

[Crimson Hollow]

At this point i almost feel like we are bickering among ourselves to pass the time, while biting our nails over a new update lol

 

[Yaorin yon]

I think Wigfrid needs an improved skill tree that gives her true cavalry capabilities. She should be able to throw spears while riding a Beefalo, use a shield to knock enemies away while mounted, and have compatibility with her own damage multipliers, among other new features.

The core reason why Wigfrid’s Beefalo-related benefits are not as good as Wendy’s is that her skill tree has very poor integration with Beefalo.

[Chewabacca]

Just now, Crimson Hollow said:

At this point i almost feel like we are bickering among ourselves to pass the time, while biting our nails over a new update lol

 

Yeah, I was going to say: I really doubt that they're going to go "hmm...what the forumites said IS right...we need to rework how Wendy interacts with beefalo, an interaction that long pre-dates this set of skill trees, in order to balance out her kit. Another week in beta it is!"

[Crimson Hollow]

Just now, Chewabacca said:

Yeah, I was going to say: I really doubt that they're going to go "hmm...what the forumites said IS right...we need to rework how Wendy interacts with beefalo, an interaction that long pre-dates this set of skill trees, in order to balance out her kit. Another week in beta it is!"

I dont know if i should laugh or be sad about this...

But either way, since this whole beefalo interaction thing may involve Wigfrid as well, I feel like it makes more sense to put them in a hotfix after the official release of the 3 trees. There will be more user feedbacks for sure.
 

[Guille6785]

wendy has outdps'd wigfrid for almost 5 years now

[Catuna_]

wendy has been outdamaging wigfrid for a while, and considering that wendy has always needed way more input i dont see why she shouldn't be notably rewarded for good use of abigail?

[Jakepeng99]

53 minutes ago, Crimson Hollow said:

At this point i almost feel like we are bickering among ourselves to pass the time, while biting our nails over a new update lol

 

Tbh, looking at my post, probably yeah.

[WenericMember]

This feels like the goalposts are being moved.

It was a problem that Wendy out DPS'd Wolfgag, no other survivor was mentioned. Then in turns out Wendy doesn't actually out DPS Wolf, so now its a problem that Wigfrid is being outdone in dps.

Outside of that.... No? Wigfrid was a combat character, but never especially about DPS. She gets her songs for durability, regen, sanity etc, her custom weapons for unique moves, she has her damage resistance, but she's only ever done like 1.25*x damage. Wendy's matched her DPS since her refresh, and eclipsed it too.

[Lardee]

1 hour ago, Jakepeng99 said:

It doesnt make much sense she is more powerful than Wigfrid. 

If higher theoretical DPS meant more powerful, Warly would've been the strongest character before all the skill trees.

[Jakepeng99]

I deem my post worthless.

[AliceShiki]

Tbh, the only thing I dislike about Wigfrid's skill tree is that she needs to interact with endgame content to get use out of a skill that is not her alignment skill.

If the Spear didn't require interacting with endgame content, I'd love her skill tree. And even then, I already like her skill tree as is.

Shield in particular is really fun. I dunno if I could have soloed Dragonfly cheeseless without it.

47 minutes ago, WenericMember said:

but she's only ever done 1.1x damage.

Isn't it 1.25x?

[WenericMember]

37 minutes ago, AliceShiki said:

Tbh, the only thing I dislike about Wigfrid's skill tree is that she needs to interact with endgame content to get use out of a skill that is not her alignment skill.

If the Spear didn't require interacting with endgame content, I'd love her skill tree. And even then, I already like her skill tree as is.

Shield in particular is really fun. I dunno if I could have soloed Dragonfly cheeseless without it.

Isn't it 1.25x?

So it is, guess I misremembered.

[SilverSpoon]

Then to be fair, it needs to be fixed Wigfrid is better at AOE than Wendy who have to make an effort to not let Abigail die.

[Dingle]

7 hours ago, WenericMember said:

This feels like the goalposts are being moved.

It was a problem that Wendy out DPS'd Wolfgag, no other survivor was mentioned. Then in turns out Wendy doesn't actually out DPS Wolf, so now its a problem that Wigfrid is being outdone in dps.

Outside of that.... No? Wigfrid was a combat character, but never especially about DPS. She gets her songs for durability, regen, sanity etc, her custom weapons for unique moves, she has her damage resistance, but she's only ever done like 1.25*x damage. Wendy's matched her DPS since her refresh, and eclipsed it too.

Doesn't she still out dps wolf most of the time, though? I thought that was the latest: Wolf can out dps her from 5 to 35% in planar fights.

[Steorra]

38 minutes ago, Dingle said:

most of the time

It's ofc would be most of the time if your Cursed Vex working for 7/24 and your War Saddle always be obtained at day 1 automatically.

[Dingle]

4 minutes ago, Steorra said:

It's ofc would be most of the time if your Cursed Vex working for 7/24 and your War Saddle always be obtained at day 1 automatically.

You can get Cursed Vex always up, it's really cheap. 1 pure horror, 3 mourning glory.

War Saddle can be hard to get, if you don't do the year of the bunnyman thing.

[WenericMember]

1 hour ago, Dingle said:

Doesn't she still out dps wolf most of the time, though? I thought that was the latest: Wolf can out dps her from 5 to 35% in planar fights.

AFAIK Wolf always out DPS's an on foot Wendy, according to the last set of given data. I believe situationally a beefalo Wendy can out DPS Wolf but that's it.

In addition, Wendy has much lower accessibility for that DPS than wolf, but I've made the case for that multiple times eslewhere.

According to this data, at least.

[Dingle]

5 minutes ago, WenericMember said:

AFAIK Wolf always out DPS's an on foot Wendy, according to the last set of given data. I believe situationally a beefalo Wendy can out DPS Wolf but that's it.

In addition, Wendy has much lower accessibility for that DPS than wolf, but I've made the case for that multiple times eslewhere.

According to this data, at least.

Top chart is for planar resistance fights. Silverspoon has non-planar dps numbers near the bottom.

"Situationally" seems misleading, when most of the fights in the game aren't planar.

[WenericMember]

7 minutes ago, Dingle said:

Top chart is for planar resistance fights. Silverspoon has non-planar dps numbers near the bottom.

"Situationally" seems misleading, when most of the fights in the game aren't planar.

Silverspoon's numbers are only on Ornery beefalo, and the OP was primarily talking about on foot (+40% damage).

I've made it clear that I don't oppose a nerf to the Wendy+Beef damage mult.

.

[Lardee]

41 minutes ago, Dingle said:

You can get Cursed Vex always up, it's really cheap. 1 pure horror, 3 mourning glory.

War Saddle can be hard to get, if you don't do the year of the bunnyman thing.

It's only really cheap post rifts and you have to keep Abigail alive else you lose it. 

To use the War Saddle you're forced to deal with all the downsides of using beefalo for combat in addition to slower movement speed than what's available on foot.

Even if we ignore how much more risky the gameplay is, just the fact that you're going to be wasting time playing safer and positioning/using team spirit to manage Abigail means your effective DPS is going to be significantly lower than Wolfgang's even if on-paper Wendy's is higher.

 

However none of that really matters since having Wendy's theoretical maximum be slightly above or slightly below Wolfgang has literally zero affect on anyone's desire to play or ability to enjoy either characters. 

[Dingle]

43 minutes ago, Lardee said:

However none of that really matters since having Wendy's theoretical maximum be slightly above or slightly below Wolfgang has literally zero affect on anyone's desire to play or ability to enjoy either characters. 

I thought Wendy's dps relative to Wolfgang was really important, before. Before like a week ago.

[Lardee]

22 minutes ago, Dingle said:

I thought Wendy's dps relative to Wolfgang was really important, before. Before like a week ago.

The people who've expressed its importance have never done so on behalf of its affect on people's desire to play or ability to enjoy the game.  It's always been about molding the game to fit their idea of what is "balanced". 

If you're talking about me in particular:

[Dingle]

5 minutes ago, Lardee said:

The people who've expressed its importance have never done so on behalf of its affect on people's desire to play or ability to enjoy the game.  It's always been about molding the game to fit their idea of what is "balanced". 

If you're talking about me in particular:

No, not you in particular.