Wendy doing more damage per hit than wigfrid is wrong

[Grove]

Some damage numbers that existed pre Wendy skill tree

Pretty sure characters hit two times per second, and Abby hits once 

With a dark sword

Wigfrid: 68×1.25×2= 170 dps

Wendy, no elixirs, at daytime when Abby is weakest: 68×1.1×1.4×0.75×2+15= 172.08 dps

Difference gets even higher the lower damage the weapon is, as the additional damage from Abby is constant and doesn't decrease with the weapon damage unlike the multipliers

[Steorra]

18 hours ago, Jakepeng99 said:

I deem my post worthless.

Keep going! Though sometimes I would not agree your ideas, but your genuine is precious.

[Bumber64]

9 hours ago, Lardee said:

It's only really cheap post rifts and you have to keep Abigail alive else you lose it. 

To use the War Saddle you're forced to deal with all the downsides of using beefalo for combat in addition to slower movement speed than what's available on foot.

You can duplicate pure horror with green gems pre-rifts. Keeping Abi alive is less an issue now with BS III and other skills. (Shadow Abi has 30 planar def during murder buff, IIRC?)

Just because you can use a magi, doesn't mean everyone wants to give up their body slot for one. Wendy can wear a wraith wreath and a backpack (or marble armor) while mounted. Anyone using magi has to wear a good helmet or not make mistakes.

[Grove]

1 minute ago, Bumber64 said:

You can duplicate pure horror with green gems pre-rifts

Not exactly the most common resource.

2 minutes ago, Bumber64 said:

Just because you can use a magi, doesn't mean everyone wants to give up their body slot for one. Wendy can wear a wraith wreath and a backpack (or marble armor). Anyone using magi has to wear a helmet or not make mistakes.

Why would one use a backpack mid fight? Or use the Wraith's Wreath?

Thulecite crown + mag is much safer than Wraith's Wreath + marble armor.

This feels like you misread what Lardee said. He did specifically say 'in combat'

[Bumber64]

20 minutes ago, Debruh said:

Not exactly the most common resource.

Why would one use a backpack mid fight? Or use the Wraith's Wreath?

Thulecite crown + mag is much safer than Wraith's Wreath + marble armor.

This feels like you misread what Lardee said. He did specifically say 'in combat'

You're underselling how common they are for anyone able to rush NM werepig.

Backpacks are fine for non-boss. Just a matter of not bothering to drop it and pick it up again. Wreath is a night vision source without a terrible visual filter, among other utilities. (There's an effect that works like bone armor, but I'm not recommending burning through MG like that.) Swapping the wreath wastes the elixir, so you don't want to do that each combat.

Compare thulecite to green gems?

Beefalo is also the only way to overcome Wendy's 0.75x on shadow creatures. You can just as well run past them, I guess.

[Grove]

10 minutes ago, Bumber64 said:

You're underselling how common they are for anyone able to rush NM werepig

They're still RNG related. And the rarest of the gems. Not even mentioning living logs.

11 minutes ago, Bumber64 said:

Backpacks are fine for non-boss. Just a matter of not bothering to drop it. Wreath is a night vision source without a terrible visual filter, among other utilities. (There's an effect that works like bone armor, but I'm not recommending burning through MG like that.)

If it's a non-boss, you're probably not fighting it. But Abby is.

 

14 minutes ago, Bumber64 said:

Compare thulecite to green gems?

Thulecite is plentiful. It can also be duped, unlike green gems.

[Bumber64]

15 minutes ago, Debruh said:

Thulecite is plentiful. It can also be duped, unlike green gems.

Duped with green gems, you mean?

[Grove]

Just now, Bumber64 said:

Duped with green gems, you mean?

Duped with green gems, yeah. Which adds to the rarity of green gems even more, as you're gonna have to waste some of them in crafting ruins stuff.

[Bumber64]

You're likely to have enough of both to get you through to rifts in any case. (Anyone taking their sweet time can grow gems on trees.)

[Grove]

1 minute ago, Bumber64 said:

(Anyone taking their sweet time can grow gems on trees.)

Might as well just farm Nightmare werepig at that point lol

[Bumber64]

9 minutes ago, Debruh said:

Might as well just farm Nightmare werepig at that point lol

At 4-5 per 20 days? Use Wilson's gem transmutes.

[Grove]

7 minutes ago, Bumber64 said:

At 4-5 per 20 days? Use Wilson's gem transmutes.

To clarify that was a joke

But seriously, if you're gonna go the route of getting the gem tree, might as well just open the rifts

[Bumber64]

8 minutes ago, Debruh said:

To clarify that was a joke

Wilson's transmutes are doable, though. He can upgrade all the unwanted gems from gems trees or hound farms into green ones. Plus the dreadstone to pure horror transmute.

It's just that Wendy doesn't particularly struggle with AFW and can do a ruins reset. Plus shadow Abi solos ink blight due to high planar def. (Cursed vex as a dmg mult doesn't handle planar bosses well, though, so it's mainly for all the normal bosses you skipped.)

[Grove]

Just now, Bumber64 said:

Wilson's transmutes are doable, though. He can upgrade all the unwanted gems from gems trees or hound farms into green ones. Plus the dreadstone to pure horror transmute.

It's just that Wendy doesn't particularly struggle with AFW and can get a ruins reset.

???? Not as Wendy???

Also if you're gonna waste time on getting the gem tree and wait for summer for it to grow. Or reset the ruins via fw for green gems so you can dupe pure horror... why not just open the rifts???

[Jakepeng99]

1 hour ago, Steorra said:

Keep going! Though sometimes I would not agree your ideas, but your genuine is precious.

Aw, thats cute thank you.

[Bumber64]

11 minutes ago, Debruh said:

Or reset the ruins via fw for green gems so you can dupe pure horror... why not just open the rifts???

That's basically the exact condition for opening rifts, yes. Given Abi can solo shadow rifts, it's not even a burden to do so. You aren't going to be wanting for pure horror at any point after NMWP, especially at less than 1 per day for cursed vex.

[Lardee]

2 hours ago, Bumber64 said:

You can duplicate pure horror with green gems pre-rifts. Keeping Abi alive is less an issue now with BS III and other skills. (Shadow Abi has 30 planar def during murder buff, IIRC?)

Just because you can use a magi, doesn't mean everyone wants to give up their body slot for one. Wendy can wear a wraith wreath and a backpack (or marble armor) while mounted. Anyone using magi has to wear a good helmet or not make mistakes.

Green gems, thulecite and living logs are among the most expensive and valuable resources. I would not consider that cheap.

Unless you're saying her skill tree makes it almost impossible for Abigail die, not sure why that's an argument. 

We're comparing theoretical maximums here. A good helmet and a magi + walking make default characters faster and way more durable than War Saddle Ornery beefalo. If your argument is that an advantage of using beefalo is that Wendy can use utility head/body slot items without sacrificing armor or speed, then that's a valid point.

[YouKnowWho142]

I'm late to this and someone prolly already said this, but even though Wigfrid always had her damage multiplier, I never saw her as an outright dps character. Wigfrid's innate damage resistance, helmets that are useful way longer than the spears, lifesteal, songs, as well as the skill tree's planar defense skill, dodge spear, regen helmet, and shield all contribute to the idea that Wigfrid's role is more of a tank as opposed to a dps character. Abigail as well as most of her perks revolve around dealing damage, so it's reasonable to consider wendy as a dps character with an aoe specialty. Therefore, i see no issue with Wendy dealing more damage than wigfrid, and in honesty that's how it should be, since even though wendy does in fact have lower damage its supposed to compensate for her reliance on abigail and to highlight the fact that wendy as a character is dependent on abigail to outshine even wilson (hence why the skill tree focused so much on abi as opposed to wendy herself, which i agree with)

[Echsrick]

22 minutes ago, Lardee said:

thulecite and living logs are among the most expensive and valuable resources. I would not consider that cheap.

even if you raided all of the ruins, the ocean can still easy provide anything ruins stuff you would need

[Lardee]

1 minute ago, Echsrick said:

even if you raided all of the ruins, the ocean can still easy provide anything ruins stuff you would need

If you're talking about paddling around the ocean on slow, clunky boats in search of treasure to roll the dice on, I don't see how that's a great argument for a resource being cheap.  I'd much rather fight Spazmatism, Dragonfly or reset the ruins.

 

[Echsrick]

3 minutes ago, Lardee said:

If you're talking about paddling around the ocean on slow, clunky boats in search of treasure to roll the dice on, I don't see how that's a great argument for a resource being cheap.  I'd much rather fight Spazmatism, Dragonfly or reset the ruins.

 

you can alsol get gem trees, alsol have you ever considered A SAIL for your boat?

[Lardee]

3 minutes ago, Echsrick said:

you can alsol get gem trees, alsol have you ever considered A SAIL for your boat?

Sure use the sail if you want. I just said paddle because I typically use the malbatross bill.

Rolling the dice and jumping through hoops for sproutrock seeds then waiting for summer and their long growth time and then rolling the dice again for a 7% chance at getting green gems doesn't make green gems cheap. A Wendy who wanted pure horror for their potions would have activated the rifts long before they'd be getting green gems from trees.

[Echsrick]

6 minutes ago, Lardee said:

Sure use the sail if you want. I just said paddle because I typically use the malbatross bill.

Rolling the dice and jumping through hoops for sproutrock seeds then waiting for summer and their long growth time and then rolling the dice again for a 7% chance at getting green gems doesn't make green gems cheap. A Wendy who wanted pure horror for their potions would have activated the rifts long before they'd be getting green gems from trees.

the malbatross bill you got....instandly? alsol it realy is not that bad, do pearls quest and give the pearl to crabking then use some gun powder to blow him up and give cracked pearl to pearl to allways get treasure maps, you realy make it sound like its super difficult

[YouKnowWho142]

I don't think people realize how strong treasure chests are right now, I did a sailing run with a friend and we were gathering literal stacks of thulecite on top of all sorts of thulecite gear and staffs, even a houndius shootius. I get why people don;t want to sail since the ocean is still really lifeless, but that loot is seriously worth considering especially for how little effort it takes

Also, what are people talking about with green gems and living logs being hard to obtain and rare? I had well over 100 living logs before day 100 and half a stack of green gems. Ever dfly only gives more as well as every ruins reset and twins fight (ew). Deconstruction staffs are only a limiting factor in the early early game, afterwards their cost is a non factor

[Lardee]

7 minutes ago, Echsrick said:

the malbatross bill you got....instandly? alsol it realy is not that bad, do pearls quest and give the pearl to crabking then use some gun powder to blow him up and give cracked pearl to pearl to allways get treasure maps, you realy make it sound like its super difficult

I never said I got it instantly.

I didn't say it was difficult. I said it was expensive as in time consuming. After getting guaranteed treasure chests, you have to sail to each of them, roll the dice for seeds, roll the dice again for the correct type of seeds, wait until summer, then wait for them to grow, all so you can occasionally roll the dice for a 7% chance at green gems. 

If I'm Wendy and I want pure horror, I'd have the rifts activated long before that happens. I'd honestly rather cycle through Dragonfly, Spazmatism and NM/Scrappy if I want more pure horror before the rifts are activated.