Mourning Glory Branch: Practicality Issues

[Yifei_]

Just now, Debruh said:

Wraith's Wreath is on the headslot, while all the elixirs are in the casket in one slot. And maybe mourning glory in another slot. So 3

Or moggles, plus healing, plus either casket with elixirs or an elixir. Since you're probably gonna get elixir, even if just vigor mortis. But probably vigor mortis plus restorative in the casket. And assuming you won't carry any mourning glory, also 3. Not counting fuel

3 made with basic items that you'll probably get anyways, or 3 with items you're gonna get out of your way to get.

And I have tamed beef plus ruins rush before this update, and during it with the casket and Wreath.

For healing, I assume you would bring food when heading to the Ruins, right? So why not bring some healing food?

The advantage of being able to take out and put away Moggles at any time means they won't consume so much fuel. You only need to use them to clear the way in critical terrain. For the rest of the time, a lantern will do.

I'm not saying that using the Wreath's night vision is impossible for exploring the Ruins; I'm just saying that using Moggles is safer and more convenient. I've also explored the Ruins using a Wreath and without taming a Beefalo, but the experience was much more terrible.

[Mysterious box]

15 minutes ago, Yifei_ said:

I do actually tame beefalos to go to the Ruins. But I usually do it in the first autumn, and by the time I've cleared the Ruins, half of the taming process is already done. During the taming process, beefalos can easily buck you off, which makes the risk higher.

Of course, you could tame the beefalos first and then go. But if you already have the ability to tame beefalos, is making Moggles still a difficult task?

The key difference is that moggles have a perishable fuel source

[Yifei_]

Just now, Mysterious box said:

The key difference is that moggles have a perishable fuel source

The fuel source which is very easy to obtain in the ruins.

[Debruh]

Just now, Yifei_ said:

or healing, I assume you would bring food when heading to the Ruins, right? So why not bring some healing food

Not really. Just eat AG's meat when it drops.

 

1 minute ago, Yifei_ said:

The advantage of being able to take out and put away Moggles at any time means they won't consume so much fuel. You only need to use them to clear the way in critical terrain. For the rest of the time, a lantern will do.

I didn't count fuel, only moggles, healing and an elixir/casket. Though, in your case that would be a lantern instead

[Yifei_]

Just now, Debruh said:

I didn't count fuel, only moggles, healing and an elixir/casket. Though, in your case that would be a lantern instead

If you don't use lantern with night vision, I can also avoid taking a lantern. The night vision is the same, so I don't count that.

2 minutes ago, Debruh said:

Not really. Just eat AG's meat when it drops.

So what do you eat for hunger? With 150 hunger enter the cave and find the ruins and kill AG in two days?

[Debruh]

1 minute ago, Yifei_ said:

If you don't use lantern with night vision, I can also avoid taking a lantern. The night vision is the same, so I don't count that.

I meant lanter instead of an elixir/the casket.

I have no idea what this reply means tbh

[Yifei_]

1 minute ago, Debruh said:

I meant lanter instead of an elixir/the casket.

I have no idea what this reply means tbh

You can avoid using Lantern by night vision (from potion), I can also avoid using Lantern by night vision (from moggles).

Sorry for the ambiguity, my English writing skill is not good.

[Debruh]

Just now, Yifei_ said:

You can avoid using Lantern by night vision (from potion), I can also avoid using Lantern by night vision (from moggles).

Sorry for the ambiguity, my English writing skill is not good.

Nah your English is pretty good.

What I meant was usually people carry elixirs to the ruins, such as vigor mortis for AG but you said that you don't do that, but did mention lanterns. So I said that in your case it would be lantern+moggles+healing when it comes to inventory vs Wreath+casket+mourning glorg

But yeah, you can avoid using lanterns in both cases

[Yifei_]

1 minute ago, Debruh said:

What I meant was usually people carry elixirs to the ruins, such as vigor mortis for AG but you said that you don't do that, but did mention lanterns. So I said that in your case it would be lantern+moggles+healing when it comes to inventory vs Wreath+casket+mourning glorg

In the absence of a skill tree, I would choose the Star Caller Staff for illumination. When I don't have potions, I simply fight AG with a 0.75 multiplier or ride a Beefalo to engage in combat. After all, AG is still a relatively simple boss.

[Mysterious box]

16 minutes ago, Yifei_ said:

The fuel source which is very easy to obtain in the ruins.

Which means it's only useful in that area of the caves whereas the potion is useful anywhere in the world

[Yifei_]

Just now, Mysterious box said:

Which means it's only useful in that area of the caves whereas the potion is useful anywhere in the world

Yeah, but night vision is very useful in ruins and not so useful in other places.

[Mysterious box]

1 minute ago, Yifei_ said:

Yeah, but night vision is very useful in ruins and not so useful in other places.

We'll have to agree to disagree there the only reason I feel moggles don't see wider use is the fuel.

[Civecilim]

On 1/23/2025 at 8:28 PM, Yifei_ said:

In this post, I will not discuss the artistic design of the Mourning Glory branch, but only address its practical issues.

 

Mourning Glory I:
Firstly, this skill is of no value to Lunar Affinity players, yet it is the first skill in the Mourning Glory branch. For players with moon affinity who want to access Mourning Glory II and III, they must waste a skill point on this. Secondly, reviving 10 butterflies requires 20 Mourning Glory items, while catching 10 butterflies or bees only needs one bug net. This is simply a waste of Mourning Glory.

 

Mourning Glory II:
This skill is a perfect example of a "chicken rib"—useless and flavorless.

1. Unyielding Draught & Distilled Vengeance: These are completely replaced by the football helmet.
2. Revenant Restorative & Spectral Cure-All: Crafting these potions already consumes health-restoring items or health points. Moreover, if you carry a bit of health-restoring or hunger-satisfying food, these potions become entirely worthless.
3. Nightshade Nostrum: Night vision is most useful in the Ruins area, but the Ruins are not only dangerous and require frequent switching between night vision and armor, but also allow for the easy crafting of higher-quality Moggles. Choosing Nightshade Nostrum is a very risky move.
4. Vigor Mortis: If it's about carrying heavy objects, I'd rather find a Beefalo. Taming a Beefalo is highly beneficial for Wendy, and even an untamed Beefalo is better for carrying heavy loads than Vigor Mortis. If it's about using it with a marble suit, I'd rather choose headgear to share the durability consumption (especially during battles with the Bee Queen). If I'm already using a marble suit, why bother with positioning?

 

Mourning Glory III:
The resurrection function of this skill is identical to that of the Meaty Effigy, with no unique features. Moreover, the cost of Meaty Effigy is quite low for Wendy, and spending Mourning Glory at the altar is just a waste. Why create such a redundant design?

I: I kind of agree that the perk is bad but that's probably by design. It's a roadblock in the way of something better that you do want.

II: I actually like the hat. I made a post complaining that it doesn't really make any thematic sense to me but it seems mechanically okay. The hat is basically a weird moggle. I agree that pretty much all the potion effects are worthless but moggle is very good and you can share it with non Wendys in multiplayer. In comparison, WX's entire everything is just moggle (he doesn't have a skill tree yet but still). Wendy gets moggle bundled with all of the things that Abigail does.

III: I would agree that the bootleg meat effigy is pretty worthless. Beard hair is basically free if you kill shadow monkeys which you very easily can do as Wendy. So if you were interested in making a meat effigy over using a life giving amulet for some reason you already very easily could. This perk and the vengeful ghost perk I have no idea why anybody would ever pick, but maybe that's also by design somehow? In comparison, Wurt has the merm retreat perk that I think nobody would ever pick (even if it didn't cost a point!) because it's actively bad. While the Wendy perks are not actively bad, they don't feel even close to worth a point, and they're not in the way of anything better (like the wurt perk), so... I don't understand.

Is the intention to endlessly die to create your little graves and proc angry ghost, and bootleg meat effigy facilitates doing this? 

Vengeful ghost could probably be buffed to be usable: you can just crank up the damage; it has to eventually be worth it for some damage value, right? I just think that we shouldn't be encouraging gameplay that requires you to die to accomplish things. What if wurt merm houses costed a skeleton? What if winona could fire a nuclear bomb whenever she dies? Winona has giga death insurance in the form of the rose that you can get, which feels relatedly bad, but at least it's not encouraging death. You aren't rewarded for dying, you just aren't punished as agressively.

[Yifei_]

3 hours ago, Civecilim said:

I: I kind of agree that the perk is bad but that's probably by design. It's a roadblock in the way of something better that you do want.

II: I actually like the hat. I made a post complaining that it doesn't really make any thematic sense to me but it seems mechanically okay. The hat is basically a weird moggle. I agree that pretty much all the potion effects are worthless but moggle is very good and you can share it with non Wendys in multiplayer. In comparison, WX's entire everything is just moggle (he doesn't have a skill tree yet but still). Wendy gets moggle bundled with all of the things that Abigail does.

III: I would agree that the bootleg meat effigy is pretty worthless. Beard hair is basically free if you kill shadow monkeys which you very easily can do as Wendy. So if you were interested in making a meat effigy over using a life giving amulet for some reason you already very easily could. This perk and the vengeful ghost perk I have no idea why anybody would ever pick, but maybe that's also by design somehow? In comparison, Wurt has the merm retreat perk that I think nobody would ever pick (even if it didn't cost a point!) because it's actively bad. While the Wendy perks are not actively bad, they don't feel even close to worth a point, and they're not in the way of anything better (like the wurt perk), so... I don't understand.

Is the intention to endlessly die to create your little graves and proc angry ghost, and bootleg meat effigy facilitates doing this? 

Vengeful ghost could probably be buffed to be usable: you can just crank up the damage; it has to eventually be worth it for some damage value, right? I just think that we shouldn't be encouraging gameplay that requires you to die to accomplish things. What if wurt merm houses costed a skeleton? What if winona could fire a nuclear bomb whenever she dies? Winona has giga death insurance in the form of the rose that you can get, which feels relatedly bad, but at least it's not encouraging death. You aren't rewarded for dying, you just aren't punished as agressively.

For MG II, the most useful feature is indeed night vision. However, from my own experience, it is still quite poor, but this may be related to my own playing rhythm and habits, and has a certain subjectivity.

The setting of building a grave on the skeleton has a certain rationality, but the gameplay is really bad. If I were to do this in reality, it would be "a life giving amulet to make a grave", that is, to die on purpose (which is really strange).

Regarding Vengeful Ghost, I really like your explanation and comparative analysis. In addition to the reasons you mentioned, there is another factor that there are many ways to die in DST. If you die of hunger/temperature/shadow creature, etc., this skill will also be useless. Moreover, I can't see any connection between this skill and the setting of the character Wendy... It should be modified to reduce the death penalty, or directly delete this skill.

[Steorra]

On 1/24/2025 at 12:07 PM, Mysterious box said:

We'll have to agree to disagree there the only reason I feel moggles don't see wider use is the fuel.

No, there is another reason - the larger vision of night vision is unnecessary for experienced players.

And this reason is valid for the wreath as well.

[Mysterious box]

2 hours ago, Steorra said:

No, there is another reason - the larger vision of night vision is unnecessary for experienced players.

And this reason is valid for the wreath as well.

Okay but the skill isn't just for experienced players even then seeing less isn't useful regardless of experience therefore it's still better.

[IAmAFurrz]

On 1/24/2025 at 9:28 AM, Yifei_ said:

• Revenant Restorative & Spectral Cure-All: Crafting these potions already consumes health-restoring items or health points. Moreover, if you carry a bit of health-restoring or hunger-satisfying food, these potions become entirely worthless.
• Nightshade Nostrum: Night vision is most useful in the Ruins area, but the Ruins are not only dangerous and require frequent switching between night vision and armor, but also allow for the easy crafting of higher-quality Moggles. Choosing Nightshade Nostrum is a very risky move.

these 2 are the sole reason i use the branch, they basically remove the need to healing items outside of battle, spectral is free health if you want to farm those and have extra MG while nostrum removes the need for refueling lanterns at all

but other than that i agree that wreath is so boring otherwise, shield is so bad due to marble existing, and vigor just cant beat nightshade

[DaDa_waw]

I felt very angry after reading the reply to this post.
Some people try to distort a practitioner's viewpoint with content they have never empirically tested in a game without even opening the game itself.
If constantly questioning without evidence is the limit of some people's discussion level, then it is truly the most disappointing aspect of this feedback platform.

[AliceShiki]

MG I is indeed mostly useless for Lunar Path, but it has niche uses there anyways, and it's still useful for Shadow Path.

MG II has a buttload of minor effects in a single point. It's great. It needs a bit of fine-tuning, but it's a pretty great option, especially for newer players that don't do stuff with the same ease that experienced players do. And Skill Trees aren't aimed solely at experienced players. Many players don't even know how to make Pierogi, and this kind of thing helps them a lot.

MG III is a flavor option that people actively requested for. Yes, it's not good. But it's by design, it's a flavor thingy you'll get if you want the flavor option. If you want to optimize your points, you'll get something else.

[DVGMedia]

On 1/23/2025 at 9:34 PM, aidankocherhans said:

How do you fight the clockworks without a mobile light source?

This is why i say a bonus to abbys light size would actually be a boon lol

As for the topic at hand I feel the buttefly revival should have synergy with the whole tree instead of just the shadow side. 
What utility does it provide if the player is not using shadow?
refreshing butterfly?
Wendy does kind of already solve alot of the problems she has alone she is one of the better spider farmers so silk food and healing are not a problem.

The wreath really doesn't do anything  other than nightvision and heavy objects.

It would be cool if ghastly experience made wendy into a ghost for 10 seconds so maybe she could use vengeful spirit with abby You know make it actually be a "ghastly" experience? instead of just a booster shot.
 

[SilverSpoon]

MG I - Yeah... it's filler skill.

 

MG II - I think pretty good enough, but there are still some parts that need improvement.

• If you remove the Wraith's Wreath, whole elixir's duration will be gone. I would like the effect of the elixir be reflected in the Wraith's Wreath, and when using the elixir, apply the elixir to the Wraith's Wreath instead of drinking it, and the color of the Wraith's Wreath change depending on the effect of the elixir.
• You can't tell how much time is left on the Wraith's Wreath buff. This will lead to death when using Nightshade Nostrum. I would be fine as the only Nightshade Nostrum that tells you how much time is left. When the time is running low, the night vision could flash like in Minecraft, or it could gradually get darker.
• Wraith's Wreath spoils too quickly (10 days: 40 minutes). It doesn't matter to Wendy, when another character uses it, it spoils really quickly as I hesitate to use it. The original 10 days is already too short, and the rate of spoil accelerates due to temperature and wet. It's fine 3-4 time the amount of Mourning Glory in the ingredients, I would like increase the spoilage time to 20 days, if I could say luxury 30 days.
• You can't use Super Elixir. Please make it available. It's more fun with more interactions.

On 1/24/2025 at 11:28 AM, Yifei_ said:

• Unyielding Draught & Distilled Vengeance: These are completely replaced by the football helmet.
• Revenant Restorative & Spectral Cure-All: Crafting these potions already consumes health-restoring items or health points. Moreover, if you carry a bit of health-restoring or hunger-satisfying food, these potions become entirely worthless.
• Nightshade Nostrum: Night vision is most useful in the Ruins area, but the Ruins are not only dangerous and require frequent switching between night vision and armor, but also allow for the easy crafting of higher-quality Moggles. Choosing Nightshade Nostrum is a very risky move.
• Vigor Mortis: If it's about carrying heavy objects, I'd rather find a Beefalo. Taming a Beefalo is highly beneficial for Wendy, and even an untamed Beefalo is better for carrying heavy loads than Vigor Mortis. If it's about using it with a marble suit, I'd rather choose headgear to share the durability consumption (especially during battles with the Bee Queen). If I'm already using a marble suit, why bother with positioning?

Unyielding Draught & Distilled Vengeance - The Elixir shield is removed with one hit no matter how low the damage, and if the damage is high, the damage that exceeds the shield will be taken normally...This is not good. A fundamental buff is needed.

Revenant Restorative & Spectral Cure-All - Elixirs don't spoil, so you can stock up heal health at base. I think it is already powerful enough.

Nightshade Nostrum - If above fixes are implemented, I think it will go on slightly stronger than Moggles.

Vigor Mortis - It's true that the current effect is too niche. Even if it's ok that only 5%, It would be fine increase in movement speed?

 

MG III - I think not needing Beard Hair is already big advantage over Meat Effigy. However it need 3 skill points, so I think it needs a bit more impact than cheap Meat Effigy. I think it can be material cost was doubled so that it could be used 3 times before breaking. Also, this is just a flavor, but if buff, it can make the health cost increase to 140 (link cost at later is keep 40). I think it feel like more Wendy.

[Steorra]

Bump