Swap Characters & Such

[Mysterious box]

3 hours ago, Dingle said:

Wicker is worse than Warly due to bookcases. Make what you need as her, switch to Maxwell, never look back.

At least with Warly, the food gets eaten eventually. With Wicker, Maxwell can read the books forever.

It's not really between the bearger bin and bundling wraps if you wanted to you could make enough to last you thousands of days and even when you eventually ran out all you need to do is gather the ingredients cook it then switch back it's directly comparable as it leads to the exact same result except it's worse for Warly as he doesn't demand you play a specific character like Maxwell because if someone doesn't want to play Maxwell they're cut off from her books there is no workaround but for Warly you can pick anyone in the cast your pick doesn't matter anyone can be Warly.

To be clear Maxwell is strong but not everyone likes Maxwell with Warly's power you can still play your main and access the peak of his ability on it.

[00petar00]

19 hours ago, Edible Coal said:

what, warly is not intented as a challenge character

I know but he is because the downside is quite punishing and most characters have gotten perks that make them useful even without gathering a lot of items.

13 hours ago, crushcircuit said:

i'm confused - do you not think the characters should be unique? they're all their own people, they're going to have their own unique perks. they aren't just there to like, look pretty, they have their own backgrounds and personalities and things. i do understand the frustration with so many character-focused updates - i was also hoping they would focus more on general updates after the reworks were done but that's just how it is i suppose - but "the characters should be a blank slate that can just do anything" (as i've parsed this statement, please do correct me if i'm completely misunderstanding you here!) is not really a good take.

the characters are unique because they're different people. you can think of it as "classes" in other games maybe? i'm not sure what else to say there, that's just the way it is

That would've been fine with me If we didn't get so many years of character updates, I want to be able to use more abilities from other characters even when I am not forced to play them because otherwise there's nothing for me to be excited about when a skill tree drops for every character except like two that I play and 95% of the time I play Wanda.

13 hours ago, crushcircuit said:

the fact that you think warly was supposed to be a challenge character in the same vein as wes is evidence that his current design is flawed

(i will note that i cannot comment on the specifics of what they could do with wickerbottom because i've never played as her, so that's not really my wheelhouse)

I am not taking into consideration that you swap to Warly and make food to swap to your main but that to me he is a challenge character even when played normally. Compared to most characters that have gained versatility with skill trees they are much more useful in more situations while Warly only has his food and while some perks are decent they aren't worth the time to gather and craft.

11 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

While some may disagree with the solution reached with her Winona, Warly, and Wickerbottom suffer from the exact same issue there's nothing really unique about it. People didn't play Winona because once you made her catapults and spotlights she just had filler perks there was nothing gained for staying as her just like Wickerbottom and Warly for example it could even be argued that since one specific character is required to replace Wickerbottom her case isn't as bad as Warly's is and Winona's was where anyone in the cast could fill their shoes.

I don't understand why does this have to be the case? Why should we need to play Winona to access her perks when they are structures? If no one could use everything like her teletransport station she would just clutter the world with structures that will only bother other players. Catapults are pretty useless now for BQ. On a long term world I wouldn't like seeing Winona If we couldn't use her structures. 

I really like being able to use winbots because they make it so much easier to gather resources with big farms and for sorting loot you bring to base. 

I main Wanda and I would really like If other players were able to use her backtrek watches to teleport because I make a lot of them and I think all characters need good teleportation. Its like lazy deserter where I need to go to the player so it requires 2 players and also need to pay 1 purple gem per teleport which makes it even worse. I did make suggestions that lazy deserter should be usable solo and let us pick which one to teleport to, this could've been balanced by limiting desert stones per antlion kill or making another version like misery toadstool but more fun and not just HP sponge that will drop a new item that is required to upgrade lazy deserter.

[Mysterious box]

5 hours ago, 00petar00 said:

am not taking into consideration that you swap to Warly and make food to swap to your main but that to me he is a challenge character even when played normally. Compared to most characters that have gained versatility with skill trees they are much more useful in more situations while Warly only has his food and while some perks are decent they aren't worth the time to gather and craft.

It's not that his dishes weren't worth crafting it's that Klei powercrept the cast so much that there became no value in using his abilities. Before characters had all these crazy free abilities his damage buffs meant something, so did his glowberry mouse, and for some his seasonal dishes. Now Wendy and Wx get night vision for a fraction of what it takes Warly and he can't even make use of it in a no caves world. Wurt can just click a button to get his wetness immunity passively etc. It's why I was so against how much overlap skills have brought because now the only solution is to give Warly game warping abilities to compensate the fact he's been powercrept into oblivion.

5 hours ago, 00petar00 said:

don't understand why does this have to be the case? Why should we need to play Winona to access her perks when they are structures? If no one could use everything like her teletransport station she would just clutter the world with structures that will only bother other players. Catapults are pretty useless now for BQ. On a long term world I wouldn't like seeing Winona If we couldn't use her structures. 

I really like being able to use winbots because they make it so much easier to gather resources with big farms and for sorting loot you bring to base. 

I main Wanda and I would really like If other players were able to use her backtrek watches to teleport because I make a lot of them and I think all characters need good teleportation. Its like lazy deserter where I need to go to the player so it requires 2 players and also need to pay 1 purple gem per teleport which makes it even worse. I did make suggestions that lazy deserter should be usable solo and let us pick which one to teleport to, this could've been balanced by limiting desert stones per antlion kill or making another version like misery toadstool but more fun and not just HP sponge that will drop a new item that is required to upgrade lazy deserter.

This reasoning doesn't make sense to me if it doesn't matter for Warly or Winona why should it matter for Wickerbottom? It feels like a case of bias you say Warly doesn't matter because he's a challenge character but that was never in the history of dst established to be the case and I'd imagine your only saying so because he's been powercrept into the ground and you don't enjoy his playstyle.  Your also saying it doesn't matter for Winona because she has other abilities but that was only true really true after she got her skill tree. Realistically the same arguement could be made for Wickerbottom for both sides she's powercrept by Maxwell so you could consider her s challenge character because only using her is handicapping yourself or you could say well let Maxwell keep all of her powers as the skill tree will introduce new ones. To be clear though I disagree with both though because it's a multiplayer game and it simply doesn't feel good to play your character then have another beside it who is just you but better. Warly and Wickerbottom are the same with the only thing separating them being Warly's dishes being harder to make.

Sharing abilities is generally fine so long as it's a smaller part of the grand scope of the character at least in my opinion.

[00petar00]

On 1/10/2025 at 3:14 PM, Mysterious box said:

It's not that his dishes weren't worth crafting it's that Klei powercrept the cast so much that there became no value in using his abilities. Before characters had all these crazy free abilities his damage buffs meant something, so did his glowberry mouse, and for some his seasonal dishes. Now Wendy and Wx get night vision for a fraction of what it takes Warly and he can't even make use of it in a no caves world. Wurt can just click a button to get his wetness immunity passively etc. It's why I was so against how much overlap skills have brought because now the only solution is to give Warly game warping abilities to compensate the fact he's been powercrept into oblivion.

In this case Warly's dishes are the problem, they have too many abilities that every character would benefit to have in their kit. If Warly didn't have glow berry musse, it would've been fine for other characters to have night vision because they are the only ones that can benefit from it and their power isn't made weaker to compensate being able to share it with other players which is my guess as to why he seems so weak to me.

On 1/10/2025 at 3:14 PM, Mysterious box said:

This reasoning doesn't make sense to me if it doesn't matter for Warly or Winona why should it matter for Wickerbottom? It feels like a case of bias you say Warly doesn't matter because he's a challenge character but that was never in the history of dst established to be the case and I'd imagine your only saying so because he's been powercrept into the ground and you don't enjoy his playstyle.  Your also saying it doesn't matter for Winona because she has other abilities but that was only true really true after she got her skill tree. Realistically the same arguement could be made for Wickerbottom for both sides she's powercrept by Maxwell so you could consider her s challenge character because only using her is handicapping yourself or you could say well let Maxwell keep all of her powers as the skill tree will introduce new ones. To be clear though I disagree with both though because it's a multiplayer game and it simply doesn't feel good to play your character then have another beside it who is just you but better. Warly and Wickerbottom are the same with the only thing separating them being Warly's dishes being harder to make.

Sharing abilities is generally fine so long as it's a smaller part of the grand scope of the character at least in my opinion.

Now that I think about it more, Wickerbottom shouldn't be an exception. The only reason I came to that conclusion is because other characters don't have their entire kit taken away from them and Winona skill tree release made catapults much more useless for other characters which is really bad.

The difference between Winona and most other characters is that she builds structures that take space in the world so it makes sense for others to be able to use them or why would you actually like to see a Winona player on an endless server? Still I think all characters should be able to use as many abilities as possible from others.

There will always be meta or best characters you can play even If abilities weren't shared and characters can't be nerfed because it doesn't make sense as this isn't a pvp game and players prefer different things, do you think Maxwell or Wanda players want to see nerfs? Majority don't because we picked strong character to play since that is what we want to do. At the same time there are players that like playing a weaker character so should they not be able to do that? Should all the characters be buffed to match the strongest characters? I don't think this would be a smart thing to do because DST is a sandbox game and it should allow as many choices and options that players can tinker and figure out what they like and that includes characters.