My Skilltree Teirlist

[Jakepeng99]

42 minutes ago, WenericMember said:

That isn't messing with her character tho? It's failing to fix the issues with her character

And it makes more issues.

[WenericMember]

Just now, Jakepeng99 said:

And it makes more issues.

I don't think you've convincingly explained how that's the case, but whatever, lets just finish here.

Hopefully she gets more flavor skills.

[Jakepeng99]

On 12/27/2024 at 10:30 PM, WenericMember said:

I don't think you've convincingly explained how that's the case, but whatever, lets just finish here.

Hopefully she gets more flavor skills.

I mean like, some of her problems was that with no cap on merms, you can spend an affordable amount of resources once to steamroll every boss in the game for no cost at all after that.

The skilltree made it significantly worse by focusing on combat, and buffing merms more than significantly.

[Ratituee]

you are being too harsh to wolfgang...

[kroban]

As a Walter main Imo his skill tree is pretty well designed, I know that currently it isnt finished, theres still a "camping" branch and more Woby's perks left, but im confident Klei will end up delivering a pretty good end result in those 2 areas.

When it comes to his slingshot they managed to tackle all the issues Walter had, the slingshot now has a solid dps, utility unlike any other weapon in the game, ammos with different effects like aoe, electric damage, and slows. And he now has a pretty good feeling of progress for the different stages of the game with the way you get the different mods, frames and ammo.

And like I said Woby branch isn't finished yet, but considering shes pretty much a "free" mount that is unkillable, atleast her badges are pretty good, she now has good speed, free sanity buff, not bucking off if you wear armor, can act like a mini-Winbot. And digging is a godlike perk, its a bit of a gambling but you can get so much value from it basically for free.

[Hi.]

I kinda like how Wortox's skilltree is bad. He doesn't need to get any stronger

[Arde]

I feel like wurts skilltree should be automatically above wolfgangs just because of the effort put into it. The skills dont fit her at all but at least they thought of and made new stuff. Also she does have the shody and the merm quests which are pretty cool imo

[shaurun]

On 12/26/2024 at 10:30 PM, Jakepeng99 said:

Willow is very well designed as to me. She has 3 (!!!) routes to go: aoe flame, single target flame, or burning Bernie, and all three are actually great. She also has a lot of utility things like extinguish fire, create a star, set birds on fire,frighten groups of enemies, etc and honestly can be played as a firemage even if you sit on top of the beefalo,which is kinda fun.

The bad thing in her design as to me is dependance on bee biome and lunar flame OP in PvP. Also the stunlock for Spider Queen makes this "boss" ubsolutetly uninteresting.

 

[Cheggf]

On 12/26/2024 at 2:30 PM, Jakepeng99 said:

But the plant crafting is poorly designed since they are switch skills.

You guys' weird obsession with calling things "switch skills" is what's poorly designed. Literally everything is a switch skill. Wolfgang dealing more damage is only useful when you're fighting, so you switch to him to fight then switch off when you're done. There are no skills that aren't "switch skills".

[Jakepeng99]

2 hours ago, Cheggf said:

You guys' weird obsession with calling things "switch skills" is what's poorly designed. Literally everything is a switch skill. Wolfgang dealing more damage is only useful when you're fighting, so you switch to him to fight then switch off when you're done. There are no skills that aren't "switch skills".

You fight things in the game alot.

 

You craft plants like one time to get the plants you need, and you are done. You have made a strange argument.

[cybers2001]

On 12/27/2024 at 5:37 AM, Cassielu said:

Sometimes I'm really surprised at how different people can think... 

• Perfect: At least we all agree Wortox is the best.
• OK: Walter‘s teir is based on his current situation, and if Klei provides more skill about his survival part content he should move up a level.
• need to be fix: When everyone gets a skill tree, Wilson's already bad skilltree becomes even worse. Wendy and Wormwood has too many noise - too many skill that nothing to do with the original perk, making their character confusing.

Wolfgang's skilltree is just a little boring, and that won't do the character any harm, especially since Wolfgang is already a statistics character. The skill tree did not make him as good as some expected, but it certainly did not make him worse.

Wendy and Wormwood skilltree gets a lot of noise, noise is more disastrous than boring, adding noise to a nice character turns them into a bad character.

Yeah, after thousands of hours, Winona replaced Wolfgang as my main solely due to her skill tree. Hers is absolutely insane.

[Arde]

Here is my tierlist

Willow is my secendary main and has my favorite skilltree. Its a great example of how skilltrees should be. I like the firestarter part of her character so i choose those skills but someone else could like bernie or a combination of the two. There are still some problems like being able to farm bees or having too much reward for no risk sometimes but its still my favorite

Wendys skilltree is just normal wendy but more fun. I love commanding around abigail and collecting creatures to murder

I dont realy like playing as wortox but the skills do look realy good other than the affinities. Also playing with a wortox is a lot more fun now because of the twinheart

Winonas skilltree makes her a lot more fun with being anle to control her catapolts and move them around instead of just waiting for the catapults to finish the job. The affinities arent my favorite but i do like the telebrella

Wormwoods skills just make him a better base freak. I realy like the skilltrees that make a character stay the same but just more

My problem with the wilson skilltree is that its so underpowered. You need so many skill points to get the alchemy skills and theyre so useless and did they realy need diminishing returns? Also the torch skills make sense for the tutorial character but why is he the only one who can do it?

I dont realy play as woody in together but the skills do at least look cool

Walters skilltree is fine and i do like the woby skills specially but its still walter at the end of the day and his combat is mostly boring. The increasing firing speed from the scrappy frame does help tho

Wurts skilltree doesnt fit her its been said a million times already

Wolfgangs skills are so boring its worse than a bad tree like wurts 

[Mysterious box]

On 12/27/2024 at 10:15 AM, Jakepeng99 said:

I believe the exact opposite and believe they have the least noise among Wortox.

The noisiest ones are Willow, and Wurt.

Ive said it in alot of threads before. I might link it later.

This person explained it well.

The fun of Wurt was developing your merm city, and watching it grow as time went. Though, the only structure we ever had was merm warrior house, the king and regular merms. Even after the skilltree, there is such little ways to develop it survival wise without just making it an army recruiting station using the feeder and helmets. The tools help but not that much.

Gonna be honest this was always beyond the scope of dst so it was never going to be possible to satisfy this desire the servers can barely handle spiders and bees and now we want a fully automated merm community? In a multiplayer server? It just wouldn't work.

Also as for the follower controls I'ma lay down a hot take klei bloated the cast too much with follower abilities which made it a struggle to keep them unique especially with the existence of skill trees leading to Wurt being forced to intentionally be less complex. If you give merms the same level of combat control as spiders where does that leave Webber? 

Wickerbottom should have never gotten bees and Wormwood should have never gotten his entire summoner branch those abilities could have simply been divided between Webber and Wurt. For example we could have instead changed it into a skill where you get a merm who sticks with you and holds torches or something similar that you need to refuel. But instead we further cluttered the follower design space and still need to try to keep each unique it just doesn't work.

That being said we're clearly on different sides of the fence as I actually really enjoyed the variety Wurt's skill tree offered.

On 12/27/2024 at 4:45 PM, WenericMember said:

Both wolfgang and wurts trees failed to solve their characters issues (Wolfgangs lack of playstyle diversity from Wilson, Wurts merms being distinct from Spiders), but while Wolfgang resorted to stat increases for 90% of of the tree, Wurt at least was given some skills that were non-combat related, and had her skills be incorporated in a more interesting manner.

Personally I feel like the biggest thing that's underrated for Wurt's skill tree is they gave original merms a purpose post merm guards.

[Cheggf]

1 hour ago, Jakepeng99 said:

You fight things in the game alot.

 

You craft plants like one time to get the plants you need, and you are done. You have made a strange argument.

You don't fight things a lot. If you're in the situation where you're mass crafting plants it would be faster and easier for you to automate the combat, or even ignore it entirely, than do it normally.

[Jakepeng99]

1 hour ago, Cheggf said:

You don't fight things a lot. If you're in the situation where you're mass crafting plants it would be faster and easier for you to automate the combat, or even ignore it entirely, than do it normally.

Plant crafting is something you would likely only use once rarely, unlike fighting which you can use often.

1 hour ago, Mysterious box said:

Gonna be honest this was always beyond the scope of dst so it was never going to be possible to satisfy this desire the servers can barely handle spiders and bees and now we want a fully automated merm community? In a multiplayer server? It just wouldn't work.

Also as for the follower controls I'ma lay down a hot take klei bloated the cast too much with follower abilities which made it a struggle to keep them unique especially with the existence of skill trees leading to Wurt being forced to intentionally be less complex. If you give merms the same level of combat control as spiders where does that leave Webber? 

Wickerbottom should have never gotten bees and Wormwood should have never gotten his entire summoner branch those abilities could have simply been divided between Webber and Wurt. For example we could have instead changed it into a skill where you get a merm who sticks with you and holds torches or something similar that you need to refuel. But instead we further cluttered the follower design space and still need to try to keep each unique it just doesn't work.

That being said we're clearly on different sides of the fence as I actually really enjoyed the variety Wurt's skill tree offered.

Personally I feel like the biggest thing that's underrated for Wurt's skill tree is they gave original merms a purpose post merm guards.

They dont need to be a fully automated merm community. Never said it should. They could gather grass for you when you are nearby.

[Cheggf]

13 minutes ago, Jakepeng99 said:

Plant crafting is something you would likely only use once rarely, unlike fighting which you can use often.

If you are at the point where you're mass crafting Wormwood's plants you would probably be fighting never. 

[Arde]

11 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

Gonna be honest this was always beyond the scope of dst so it was never going to be possible to satisfy this desire the servers can barely handle spiders and bees and now we want a fully automated merm community? In a multiplayer server? It just wouldn't work

We dont need it to be automated. Hamlet could handle a pig city perfectly fine and that game had spaghetti code

11 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

Also as for the follower controls I'ma lay down a hot take klei bloated the cast too much with follower abilities which made it a struggle to keep them unique especially with the existence of skill trees leading to Wurt being forced to intentionally be less complex. If you give merms the same level of combat control as spiders where does that leave webber?

Yeah thats what we mean. Klei mostly gave her combat skills which makes her feel less uniqe compared to webber. my favorite part of her skilltree is the shody because of this

[Jakepeng99]

12 hours ago, Cheggf said:

If you are at the point where you're mass crafting Wormwood's plants you would probably be fighting never. 

?

[Mysterious box]

On 1/2/2025 at 1:54 AM, Arde said:

We dont need it to be automated. Hamlet could handle a pig city perfectly fine and that game had spaghetti code

Yeah thats what we mean. Klei mostly gave her combat skills which makes her feel less uniqe compared to webber. my favorite part of her skilltree is the shody because of this

 

On 1/1/2025 at 3:52 PM, Jakepeng99 said:

They dont need to be a fully automated merm community. Never said it should. They could gather grass for you when you are nearby.

Hamlet was a single player expansion can't say I know too much about the code but I imagine it'd have issues. Also if merms aren't going to have automated actions what were they supposed to get outside of combat? It feels like Klei is becoming more picky with giving followers gathering perks which is probably why merms didn't get that despite all the requests for it.

On 1/2/2025 at 1:54 AM, Arde said:

Yeah thats what we mean. Klei mostly gave her combat skills which makes her feel less uniqe compared to webber. my favorite part of her skilltree is the shody because of this

The thing is combat has always been a big part of her character so it makes sense that a lot of focus went into it she was created with merm guards being the peak of her journey.

The way Webber differed at least post refresh was that he has a much higher degree of control over his followers which I imagine klei will expand on when his skill tree comes around as well as some non combat perks for his followers which might not be the greatest thing to hear when we want more of those for Wurt but her merms already do a lot. They chop, dig up stumps, mine, and till. With Wurt making them tools, an armory, and a revival station that gathers and recruits merms.

Since Webber will lean into control rather than dps I imagine he'll get a lot of support skills instead as well as his own way to use them outside of combat at least I hope so instead of just trying to make them match merms raw power.

Wurt could have had more I agree there but I also understand why they were hesitant to afterall merms already cover pretty much all the core aspects of the game even into the late game both in and outside of combat so perhaps they didn't want them to go too much further with that or it may have been to much work to program for multiplayer who knows really.

[Arde]

5 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

 

Hamlet was a single player expansion can't say I know too much about the code but I imagine it'd have issues. Also if merms aren't going to have automated actions what were they supposed to get outside of combat? It feels like Klei is becoming more picky with giving followers gathering perks which is probably why merms didn't get that despite all the requests for it.

They could be shop keepers like pearl. They dont have to be followers just progressing the merm city is fun. They could sell you food or healing or gather materials with you in exchange for something

[Mysterious box]

40 minutes ago, Arde said:

They could be shop keepers like pearl. They dont have to be followers just progressing the merm city is fun. They could sell you food or healing or gather materials with you in exchange for something

It would be a interesting way to expand the character I once thought of Wurt getting a special inventory container for fish which could have been combined with the shop concept.

If they were to revisit the concept and give her a shop I feel like a cool way to do it would have been to have a merchant that sells 3 items that change daily the 1.

On the left would be things non meat crockpot dishes and seeds it would usually be crop seeds but every so often it'd be seeds for monkeytails and stone fruit bushes

In the middle he'd offer season specific non boss items like beefalo hats, seasonal fish, and thermal stones.

Finally on the right side he'd sell character specific items in the case of Wurt pre rift it'd be mosquitos and nitre. Post rift it'd add Pure horror and pure brilliance to his shop with Wurt's alignment increasing the odds of getting the specific material.

Now this shop wouldn't be open to just Wurt if another survivor goes to it he'll only sell them a mask but once they have it on he'll sell them the same items with the exception of the right one which would be character specific materials the right side would also include honey poultice.

The catch being the 3 items presented would be random from within their category each day and you can only purchase from each once per day per character and obviously the shops would go out of business if the king dies incentivising non Wurt players to more invested in his wellbeing.

Now obviously this would probably be too complex but it'd be really fun in my opinion atleast.

[Cheggf]

On 1/2/2025 at 3:19 AM, Jakepeng99 said:

?

If you're far enough into the game where you have so many materials that you want to switch to Wormwood, mass craft a bunch of plants, and then switch off then you're surely far enough into the game where you don't need to be fighting. Anything that you could be fighting is either entirely pointless to fight or would be faster & easier to just automate the slaying of. Wolfgang would do nothing to help at this point. 

[Lee lol]

I have been playing with her since the Winona skill tree was updated, which is very convenient and interesting for a base builder.

Wigfrid's beefalo-related content made her a joke.

Since the skill tree work of the three characters has not been completed, I may change some of the arrangements.

[Arepantera]

On 1/5/2025 at 10:45 PM, Cheggf said:

If you're far enough into the game where you have so many materials that you want to switch to Wormwood, mass craft a bunch of plants, and then switch off then you're surely far enough into the game where you don't need to be fighting. Anything that you could be fighting is either entirely pointless to fight or would be faster & easier to just automate the slaying of. Wolfgang would do nothing to help at this point. 

Uhh... You don't have to be "far enough into the game" to do that.
Usually before day 40 I have already visited the ruins, gotten a bunch of bananas, then crafted around 20-25 monkey tails to make sure I have a steady source of honey poultice. Then I re-spec and remove all plant crafting skills.

It can probably be done easily before day 20, it's just that I like crafting lots and lots of mushroom planters in the caves

Point is, swapping is very cheap, so swapping in order to craft plants (or starting the game with those perks and swapping them out for the rest of the game) is something that can be done early and easily, you only use those perks once and then never again, which is why they're swap skills

Combat is an inevitability in this game. Hounds come after you, giants come after you. If you want to progress the world you have to kill bosses, if you want to see the new content you have to kill bosses because nowadays all new content is combat related. Therefore combat perks are not swap perks.