So, Walter is pretty fun and really powerful!

[MisterBilly]

2 hours ago, IAmAFurrz said:

 i wont judge those who find walter fun, but i certainly felt bored playing him

hey there, if you don't mind me asking, who do you enjoy playing, generally?

[Hyuyu]

hell yeah we promote varied playstyles in this walter gaming

 

one mistake, you forgot the pinetree pioneer hat, so your fashion rating is lower than your cool gamer rating. you have to fix it

[Tarnishedmax]

5 minutes ago, Hyuyu said:

hell yeah we promote varied playstyles in this walter gaming

 

one mistake, you forgot the pinetree pioneer hat, so your fashion rating is lower than your cool gamer rating. you have to fix it

I could only afford the skin itself but not the hat im out here guccied down to the socks but need 5 dollars with my Walter LMAO

[_mylilsunshine_]

41 minutes ago, Tarnishedmax said:

I could only afford the skin itself but not the hat im out here guccied down to the socks but need 5 dollars with my Walter LMAO

wink wink

[IAmAFurrz]

2 hours ago, Lardee said:

Would love to see both the videos of Walter using Void gear against Armored Bearger and using only Icker/Slowdown rounds

fun fact: slows dont work on attacks that move mobs, so it quite literally is a ranged only ammo (also icker, last time i tested it, slows down players that use melee, so it even ruins the fight for teammates)

1 hour ago, MisterBilly said:

hey there, if you don't mind me asking, who do you enjoy playing, generally?

wortox, wigfrid, currently trying out wendy and abi (and its VERY fun to make her work in bosses that she struggles against), wolfgang (double damage truly goes brrr), warly, and woodie.

i generally dont like extreme power curve characters like winona, wurt (especially as i almost fell asleep playing her [i have adhd and find wurt extremely boring]), webber.

wormwood im neutral towards but he is pretty fun for farming, getting to eat exclusively red caps is quite nice, so im planning on learning him after ive learnt more about wendy.

i dont plan on walter bc he offers nothing, pre-rift i can pure melee everything, and post-rift id rather use gloomerang for the VERY few things i actually need ranged for (bearger/possessed varg stun, killing shadow inks, and killing birds for feathers), thats my main issue with him. his fighting is just wilson pre-rift if melee, or you purposefully choose to use slowdown+slingshot (which is the only combat stuff that is in his skill tree) for basically making everything not a challenge. theres no diversity, and if you want ranged then use gloomerang.

the only thing i would ever use him for is to rush day 1 pieces with a friend while i shoot in the back in 200+ ping (and even then i could do that with wortox with a lot more fun)

if i were to change walters skill tree, id make slingshot rounds to be more diverse than 3 options of slow, damage, damage with aoe (affinity rounds are cool but the base of the character is still bad) as well as actually give more skills for melee playstyles that tie in with the boyscout gimmick (i have been accused of being 'brainwashed' by lardee's video, but if you check my post history i have made suggestions far before his video, ik it sounds petty but in case someone brings that point up again)

i genuinely do not have anything against walter, i have issues with his design and skill tree that doubles down on his bad design. the last thing i would want for a character is to have a bad design forever, its why im so happy wortox got such a fun, decent and thematically fitting skill tree. i have no horse in this race, i dont play walter much and in the future i wont if the skill tree doesnt change drastically, so doesnt matter to me, i already got what i wanted for my boy (wortox)

[Catuna_]

1 hour ago, IAmAFurrz said:

fun fact: slows dont work on attacks that move mobs, so it quite literally is a ranged only ammo (also icker, last time i tested it, slows down players that use melee, so it even ruins the fight for teammates)

you have to be literally hugging a mob to get stuck in the icker, this never happens realistically from the auto-attack range
considering that you want to move away from enemies and not towards them, this will literally never happen...
unlike something like willow setting mobs on fire for more damage which can genuinely be obnoxious
even for something like running past the ice deer when klaus is casting the freeze attack everyone has more than enough room to not get stuck in the icker, you're just making baseless claims on something you've never thoroughly tested

[MisterBilly]

1 hour ago, IAmAFurrz said:

fun fact: slows dont work on attacks that move mobs, so it quite literally is a ranged only ammo (also icker, last time i tested it, slows down players that use melee, so it even ruins the fight for teammates)

wortox, wigfrid, currently trying out wendy and abi (and its VERY fun to make her work in bosses that she struggles against), wolfgang (double damage truly goes brrr), warly, and woodie.

i generally dont like extreme power curve characters like winona, wurt (especially as i almost fell asleep playing her [i have adhd and find wurt extremely boring]), webber.

wormwood im neutral towards but he is pretty fun for farming, getting to eat exclusively red caps is quite nice, so im planning on learning him after ive learnt more about wendy.

i dont plan on walter bc he offers nothing, pre-rift i can pure melee everything, and post-rift id rather use gloomerang for the VERY few things i actually need ranged for (bearger/possessed varg stun, killing shadow inks, and killing birds for feathers), thats my main issue with him. his fighting is just wilson pre-rift if melee, or you purposefully choose to use slowdown+slingshot (which is the only combat stuff that is in his skill tree) for basically making everything not a challenge. theres no diversity, and if you want ranged then use gloomerang.

the only thing i would ever use him for is to rush day 1 pieces with a friend while i shoot in the back in 200+ ping (and even then i could do that with wortox with a lot more fun)

if i were to change walters skill tree, id make slingshot rounds to be more diverse than 3 options of slow, damage, damage with aoe (affinity rounds are cool but the base of the character is still bad) as well as actually give more skills for melee playstyles that tie in with the boyscout gimmick (i have been accused of being 'brainwashed' by lardee's video, but if you check my post history i have made suggestions far before his video, ik it sounds petty but in case someone brings that point up again)

i genuinely do not have anything against walter, i have issues with his design and skill tree that doubles down on his bad design. the last thing i would want for a character is to have a bad design forever, its why im so happy wortox got such a fun, decent and thematically fitting skill tree. i have no horse in this race, i dont play walter much and in the future i wont if the skill tree doesnt change drastically, so doesnt matter to me, i already got what i wanted for my boy (wortox)

Thanks for the insight! Hope my question didn't come off as rude or anything like that, just wanted to see your perspective and know you a little better is all, thanks ^w^

But I think it's pretty funny how I couldn't be any more opposite lol, as I love power-curve characters, and find Wigfrid and Wolfgang so boring. (except for wurt, also boring for me too.)

[Catuna_]

1 hour ago, IAmAFurrz said:

i dont plan on walter bc he offers nothing, pre-rift i can pure melee everything, and post-rift id rather use gloomerang for the VERY few things i actually need ranged for (bearger/possessed varg stun, killing shadow inks, and killing birds for feathers), thats my main issue with him. his fighting is just wilson pre-rift if melee, or you purposefully choose to use slowdown+slingshot (which is the only combat stuff that is in his skill tree) for basically making everything not a challenge. theres no diversity, and if you want ranged then use gloomerang.

you can just use the slingshot... when you beat bee queen it has the same dps as him swinging melee weapons (better if you're not animation cancelling)... he has diversity in his ammos from utility in cheap freezes and slows, and he has aoe and high single target damage all at once. and melee is available as an option still because it'd be obnoxious if he was locked into ranged, but that doesn't mean that klei have to expand on it outside of the utility the slingshot can offer for melee fighting

also walter's slingshot far outpowers the gloomerang, aswell as being more convenient: the gloomerang has low durability, being able to use the crown and not sacrificing damage, no obnoxious projectile limit etc so I'm not following what you're trying to say? walter offers a strictly better alternative to the post-fuelweaver/cc ranged weapons way earlier, walter interacts with sanity differently, walter has a very well written personality and a cute sausage dog looking thing i think

it honestly just kind of sounds to me like you havent played this character at all, idk how you can say he offers nothing

1 hour ago, IAmAFurrz said:

if i were to change walters skill tree, id make slingshot rounds to be more diverse than 3 options of slow, damage, damage with aoe (affinity rounds are cool but the base of the character is still bad) as well as actually give more skills for melee playstyles that tie in with the boyscout gimmick (i have been accused of being 'brainwashed' by lardee's video, but if you check my post history i have made suggestions far before his video, ik it sounds petty but in case someone brings that point up again)

i agree that 3 slowing ammos is odd and i'd be more than down to remove slow stacking and reworking these bullets but i dont see why you're trying to cater to melee combat much more than he already does, just play a different character? when you try to "improve melee for walter" all you end up doing is going against the concept of woby and the slingshot
it's not like you dont benefit from slowing things down in an AoE with melee weapons, or the dirt cheap ice staff upgrade you can have
pretending like walter is forced to make mobs move at a snail's pace to be enjoyable is quite odd to me, you don't really have to slow mobs more than you want, you're still able to attack with melee dps at range and that offers a different experience, he has a 1x damage mod because it'd be dumb for him to be forced to not use melee weapons
he still offers an aoe option, aoe slows, freeze, damage amping (lunar affinity) and soon will offer boyscout perks and better woby perks (hopefully)
 

[Chewabacca]

It's neat to just have options. You can go melee for a cheaper and usually quicker fight if you've got the skills to not get hit, or you can go ranged if you want a safer fight at the cost of more resources. Or you can go hybrid like Tarnishedmax does here for nonstop damage, but, again, only if you've got the skill, which is a nice way of rewarding the player for their combat ability. That's way more diversity than most characters get. The skill tree just makes the slingshot an actually viable option in fights, it doesn't force him to pick that option.

[Tarnishedmax]

2 hours ago, Chewabacca said:

It's neat to just have options. You can go melee for a cheaper and usually quicker fight if you've got the skills to not get hit, or you can go ranged if you want a safer fight at the cost of more resources. Or you can go hybrid like Tarnishedmax does here for nonstop damage, but, again, only if you've got the skill, which is a nice way of rewarding the player for their combat ability. That's way more diversity than most characters get. The skill tree just makes the slingshot an actually viable option in fights, it doesn't force him to pick that option.

This is the exact purpose of my post! i wanted to show people that you can be aggressive as Walter and how none of his perks genuinely affect melee combat, i just want people to realize Walter has a ton of options for approaching things and i think that its just awesome, i find myself using every single playstyle when playing as him, i sometimes slow stack, i sometimes go pure melee, i sometimes mix and match for big damage, but the main point is that i have OPTIONS and can decide freely how i approach things, Walter is genuinely good at everything, he is genuinely like Woodie, can handle every single situation you throw at him, unlike Wanda or Maxwell for example, that despite their power they only have a single option for optimal play.

Now just because im positive and having fun with him it doesn’t mean his skill tree doesn’t have giant issues, lunar affinity is terrible and he genuinely needs to have more round variety because 3 slowdowns is dumb, but i’ve already made a post like this and i’ll probably give my feedback and thoughts when Klei releases a patch in a couple weeks from now, the idea of this post was just for people to try out new things!

[Guille6785]

I'm with Lardee on this one, the skill tree just hasn't given Walter much of anything to reward aggressive and skillful hitless play and this video definitely hasn't shown that to be the case, I was personally really disappointed that half the perks were for a weapon I simply don't want to use

[OMEGASCRUFF]

31 minutes ago, Guille6785 said:

I'm with Lardee on this one, the skill tree just hasn't given Walter much of anything to reward aggressive and skillful hitless play and this video definitely hasn't shown that to be the case, I was personally really disappointed that half the perks were for a weapon I simply don't want to use

+1. I honestly think he's a lot of fun regardless, especially in multiplayer, and overall he might be my second favorite character now, but I really wish I had more of a reason to use melee on him. Base damage is just not rewarding enough and there's nothing compelling or special about his close combat compared to Wilson. Ignoring sanity auras just doesn't really do anything to change gameplay in a meaningful way.

I just wish an incentive to get up close existed, so I could make more strategic choices and had more options rather than doing the same thing pretty much all of the time.

[viblym]

39 minutes ago, Guille6785 said:

I'm with Lardee on this one, the skill tree just hasn't given Walter much of anything to reward aggressive and skillful hitless play and this video definitely hasn't shown that to be the case, I was personally really disappointed that half the perks were for a weapon I simply don't want to use

You want to be rewarded for not utilizing a character's unique perks ???

[_mylilsunshine_]

16 minutes ago, Guille6785 said:

I'm with Lardee on this one, the skill tree just hasn't given Walter much of anything to reward aggressive and skillful hitless play and this video definitely hasn't shown that to be the case, I was personally really disappointed that half the perks were for a weapon I simply don't want to use

idk guille. what does aggressive and skillful hitless play reward other characters AND the players exactly? not much. there is resource economy i guess, not having to face tank & heal, etc.

my point is, why does anyone sweat in a game? why do you speedrun and do hitless demonstrations? because there is a skill expression opportunity and you want to take it of course. DST is a rather simple game, but players still want to optimize, min-max, and master the mechanics that the game does have. this Walter/slingshot demonstration is not the exception. maybe OP felt that melee-range mixing is rewarding, maybe OP felt that mixing is a form of skill expression so it's fun, maybe OP felt that mixing is a viable combat option.

you were not interested in this demonstration because you didn't want to use the slingshot in the first place, and i don't think that someone else using it will change your mind. i was also disappointed that the tree was dedicated to the slingshot, but only because i wanted diverse and flavorful perks. the slingshot is a gameplay-changing piece of equipment that was terrible before, they improved it in an exciting and engaging way and gave us a viable combat option.

[Dingle]

Devs are adding new perks to Walter after they come back, they said. More scouting/woby/not-slingshot ones.

Just wait for that, and make your requests for a perk that lets Walter use Woby as a hambat.

[OMEGASCRUFF]

Just now, viblym said:

You want to be rewarded for not utilizing a character's unique perks ???

I mean, the point is that the skill tree is a blank canvas. They could have done whatever they wanted with it. Willow is a good example of perks that are exclusively provided by a skill tree. Walter's never been just his slingshot, especially with how bad it used to be before for DPS. It's definitely his meta now, though.

Walter's just not really a character who rewards fundies. He's still fun, in my opinion, but he's absolutely not rewarded for playing the game normally, and I'm not really sure I'd call his optimal gameplay particularly skillful either.

I just wish he could do both, if he wants to, and be rewarded for it. Right now, he's not rewarded for melee in any meaningful way. It just feels like a missed opportunity to give players more options.

2 minutes ago, Dingle said:

Just wait for that, and make your requests for a perk that lets Walter use Woby as a hambat.

HELPPPPPPPPPP

[Guille6785]

13 minutes ago, viblym said:

You want to be rewarded for not utilizing a character's unique perks ???

The way I see it Walter is a character that rewards you with much faster exploration (with a free beefalo + backpack) at the cost of making combat more punishing if you make mistakes, and the slingshot is an option for people who simply can't avoid getting hit to still be able to kill tougher enemies as Walter if they're willing to tolerate the resource cost and time investment. Walter =/= the slingshot and it's a shame that the skill tree feels more like a slingshot rework, I think the obvious thing to do would've been to split the skill tree between safety perks (like the slingshot perks we have now) and risk/reward perks like more carrying capacity/speed at the cost of x/y/z etc.

12 minutes ago, _mylilsunshine_ said:

idk guille. what does aggressive and skillful hitless play reward other characters AND the players exactly? not much. there is resource economy i guess, not having to face tank & heal, etc.

my point is, why does anyone sweat in a game? why do you speedrun and do hitless demonstrations? because there is a skill expression opportunity and you want to take it of course. DST is a rather simple game, but players still want to optimize, min-max, and master the mechanics that the game does have. this Walter/slingshot demonstration is not the exception. maybe OP felt that melee-range mixing is rewarding, maybe OP felt that mixing is a form of skill expression so it's fun, maybe OP felt that mixing is a viable combat option.

you were not interested in this demonstration because you didn't want to use the slingshot in the first place, and i don't think that someone else using it will change your mind. i was also disappointed that the tree was dedicated to the slingshot, but only because i wanted diverse and flavorful perks. the slingshot is a gameplay-changing piece of equipment that was terrible before, they improved it in an exciting and engaging way and gave us a viable combat option.

I stopped reading after the third line because this has absolutely nothing to do with what I was talking about

7 minutes ago, Dingle said:

Devs are adding new perks to Walter after they come back, they said. More scouting/woby/not-slingshot ones.

Just wait for that, and make your requests for a perk that lets Walter use Woby as a hambat.

I'll honestly be happy with a skill that lets Walter use his melee weapon on Woby, doesn't need to be Woby herself attacking

[_mylilsunshine_]

4 minutes ago, Guille6785 said:

I stopped reading after the third line because this has absolutely nothing to do with what I was talking about

shame, if only you were more open to discussion

[Dingle]

15 minutes ago, Guille6785 said:

I'll honestly be happy with a skill that lets Walter use his melee weapon on Woby, doesn't need to be Woby herself attacking

I read this wrong at first, and thought you wanted a perk that let you beat up Woby with melee weapons.

I mostly just want Walter's upcoming new skill tree branch to be officially labeled as the "Not-Slingshot" branch. With the hyphen and everything.

[Tarnishedmax]

2 hours ago, Guille6785 said:

I'm with Lardee on this one, the skill tree just hasn't given Walter much of anything to reward aggressive and skillful hitless play and this video definitely hasn't shown that to be the case, I was personally really disappointed that half the perks were for a weapon I simply don't want to use

There is 0 issue with not liking the slingshot but there's a sizable amount of Walter feedback that's averse to using it, even in the beta where it's a good weapon, you don't see this kind of feedback for people not wanting to use Wanda's Alarming Clock; A lot of people are having so much fun with his slingshot lol, I do agree that his skill tree focuses too much on the slingshot, but insisting that he can't have his slingshot be a good weapon, or something you're encouraged to use is an issue of the lack of care for Walter. His extremely powerful slingshot is really cool and i love it a ton, i just wish he had more perks that accompany this really cool slingshot. I think people saying that his slingshot being incentivized is an issue just because they don't like using it isn't helping and is disingenuous to actually critiquing his skill tree. There will almost always be a branch that people don't like, that's why it's optional, Walter is getting more content in his skill tree other than the slingshot, so why keep beating down on it? I personally dont really like Wortox's skill tree, but that is because his character it just not for me, but I'm not going to give negative feedback on a character that doesn't interest me to begin with. It's okay that you dislike Walter, but other people do actually like him, pushing against character improvements because he does not cater to you is missing the point. This conversation is getting far from the intention of my post, and I really don't care if you disagree with me on something or even if you're right about it, but you're jumping from the post saying "The slingshot is good" to say it's bad, not because the item is bad, but because you already never used it. All in all it really is a barebones skill tree but instead of giving genuine criticism and taking into consideration people that actually enjoy Walter perks and his playstyle, you're dismissing it as a whole because it's not catering to you, someone that doesn't like him. Why not play Walter and just tame a beefalo at that point?

[Guille6785]

48 minutes ago, Tarnishedmax said:

but insisting that he can't have his slingshot be a good weapon, or something you're encouraged to use

Walter is getting more content in his skill tree other than the slingshot, so why keep beating down on it?

pushing against character improvements because he does not cater to you is missing the point.

you're jumping from the post saying "The slingshot is good" to say it's bad, not because the item is bad, but because you already never used it

instead of giving genuine criticism and taking into consideration people that actually enjoy Walter perks and his playstyle, you're dismissing it as a whole because it's not catering to you, someone that doesn't like him

I literally never said any of this, I did not say I was against the slingshot being improved, I said I was disappointed they focused entirely on it i.e. I wanted them to add more perks for other aspects of the character, not take away slingshot perks

I genuinely do not understand how you constructed this insane strawman out of a 1 sentence comment I left

[viblym]

20 minutes ago, Guille6785 said:

I literally never said any of this, I did not say I was against the slingshot being improved, I said I was disappointed they focused entirely on it i.e. I wanted them to add more perks for other aspects of the character, not take away slingshot perks

I genuinely do not understand how you constructed this insane strawman out of a 1 sentence comment I left

You can derive meaning and intent from words

[Guille6785]

11 minutes ago, viblym said:

You can derive meaning and intent from words

then it's good that I left another comment in which I explicitly said I'm fine with one half of the skill tree being slingshot perks if the other half leans in the other direction

[Mysterious box]

6 hours ago, Guille6785 said:

I'm with Lardee on this one, the skill tree just hasn't given Walter much of anything to reward aggressive and skillful hitless play and this video definitely hasn't shown that to be the case, I was personally really disappointed that half the perks were for a weapon I simply don't want to use

I don't get why a character based on being cautious would reward being aggressive even then what would you even offer to encourage this style of play?

[Tarnishedmax]

3 hours ago, Guille6785 said:

I literally never said any of this, I did not say I was against the slingshot being improved, I said I was disappointed they focused entirely on it i.e. I wanted them to add more perks for other aspects of the character, not take away slingshot perks

I genuinely do not understand how you constructed this insane strawman out of a 1 sentence comment I left

My comment is mostly a general response rather than specifically to your comment which is my bad for quoting that in specific! but the thing that just bothers me is how my entire post has been derailed into Walter needs more perks discussion #874

I have been extremely active on Walter feedback at the beginning of the beta, i’ve literally have interacted directly with the devs and been testing Walter non stop since then, i have multiple posts that are VERY harsh about this whole situation, like seriously i agree with you, i don’t think any single person in this entire forums doesn’t think Walter needs more perks and Klei knows this, they literally admitted this on the beta delay announcement.

This whole thing is genuinely just redundant and the point of my post was for people to share play styles, experiences and just mostly for fun and to showcase something cool, we all are literally just waiting for the january hotfix to start posting again and im MORE than happy to discuss changes and feedback then! but for now im just annoyed how this just became a nothing burger discussion of something literally everyone knows and agrees on and has been repeated over and over again.

This entire text isn’t specifically targeted at you btw im just kinda disappointed to how boring this entire thread became.

Ill be locking this thread because of just how derailed it went but i invite you to do your own post talking about these issues and to generate discussion about what kind of skills would be cool to see with Walter, what he needs the most and all that, im more than happy to discuss about it in an appropriate feedback post!!! (*´ω｀*)

Edit: nvm i thought you could lock your own threads! but it doesn’t matter i just hope some of you could bring these issues on its own unique posts because it would be really useful to have a dedicated feedback thread for when Klei comes back from vacation