Wendy damage comparison

[RussoDaFederal]

Hey everyone, I made a whole graphic comparison in another post but turns out I got some variables wrong, so I want to redo it. The idea was to compare Wendy's damage with Wes, Wilson and Wolfgang, since they're supposedly the weakest, average and strongest characters regarding damage. The dps calculation goes like this:

The y axis is the dps and the x axis is weapon damage, so we can calculate the dps as f(x) instead of thinking about every single weapon out there. Planar damage will be excluded since it is not affected by multipliers. Wendy's multipliers are 0.75, 1.4 and 1.1, because Abi's vex 1.1 multiplier works for every character, and it stacks with Wendy's 1.4 multiplier when hitting vexed mobs. What I didn't know and I'm correcting right now is that these numbers change way more drastically than I anticipated with the vex elixir. 1.4 becomes 1.6 and 1.1 becomes 1.3. So the final result for each damage function is:

Wes (red): 1.5x

Wilson (blue): 2x

Wolfgang (green): 4x

Wendy (purple): 2.31x + 40

Wendy w/ vex & murder (black): 3.12x + 80

Edit: added dashed lines to indicate the "max dps" of their respective color: 354.56 for buffed Wendy w/ beefalo, 272 for Wolfgang w/ a dark sword and 243.28 for non buffed Wendy w/ beefalo.

Sidenote: as CremeLover pointed out (thanks again), Wolfgang's dps can get higher than 400, reaching even 450 with planar weapons, so this might be a more suitable comparison to Wendy's dps with the vex elixir since it takes pure horror to craft. In the end, Wolfgang is still stronger no matter what.

Wendy's dps (no buffs) and Wolfgang's dps intersect at around (24, 95), which means Wolfgang only does more damage than Wendy if he's using a weapon that deals more than 24 damage (most weapons). But the intersection between buffed Wendy and Wolfgang is around (91, 364), which means Wolfgang only surpasses Wendy's damage if he's using blowdarts.

And beefalo damage was also wrong in my previous post. I said it was 34 but that's the value for the default beefalo, not ornery. Ornery has 50 base damage plus 16 with the war saddle. So its dps is 243.28. It's on par with Wolfgang with a ham bat. With the vex elixir and murder, however, it goes up to 354.56. It surpasses Wolfgang's damage by a lot. Wolfgang's max melee dps in normal circumstances is 272 with a dark sword. To surpass Wendy's damage he'd have to be using blowdarts 100% of the time. In case you're wondering, the dps with nightmare saddle is slightly lower, but it is still the best saddle in the game because its damage is very close to the war saddle (it's higher for every other character) and it does planar damage and has many other perks. This interaction is not balanced because only Wendy's 1.4 multiplier is applied while the 0.75 multiplier is ignored. I personally would like to see the 1.4 multiplier (or 1.6 when using the elixir) removed if Wendy is riding a beefalo. But this post is more raw data than a suggestion. And since we're talking about suggestions, I'd just like to point out that Wendy's dps with gestalt Abi falls really short compared to everything else, so I think she could be buffed a bit.

[Dingle]

Thanks for updating your data! Also thanks to @CremeLover for doing a small correction post before this one, somewhere.

[DegenerateFurry]

8 minutes ago, RussoDaFederal said:

Hey everyone, I made a whole graphic comparison in another post but turns out I got some variables wrong, so I want to redo it. The idea was to compare Wendy's damage with Wes, Wilson and Wolfgang, since they're supposedly the weakest, average and strongest characters regarding damage. The dps calculation goes like this:

The y axis is the dps and the x axis is weapon damage, so we can calculate the dps as f(x) instead of thinking about every single weapon out there. Planar damage will be excluded since it is not affected by multipliers. Wendy's multipliers are 0.75, 1.4 and 1.1, because Abi's vex 1.1 multiplier works for every character, and it stacks with Wendy's 1.4 multiplier when hitting vexed mobs. What I didn't know and I'm correcting right now is that these numbers change way more drastically than I anticipated with the vex elixir. 1.4 becomes 1.6 and 1.1 becomes 1.3. So the final result for each damage function is:

Wes (red): 1.5x

Wilson (blue): 2x

Wolfgang (green): 4x

Wendy (purple): 2.31x + 40

Wendy w/ vex & murder (black): 3.12x + 80

Wendy's (no buffs) dps and Wolfgang's dps intersect at around (24, 95), which means Wolfgang only does more damage than Wendy if he's using a weapon that deals more than 24 damage (most weapons). But the intersection between buffed Wendy and Wolfgang is around (91, 364), which means Wolfgang only surpasses Wendy's damage if he's using blowdarts.

And beefalo damage was also wrong in my previous post. I said it was 34 but that's the value for the default beefalo, not ornery. Ornery has 50 base damage plus 16 with the war saddle. So its dps is 243.28. It's on par with Wolfgang with a ham bat. With the vex elixir and murder, however, it goes up to 354.56. It surpasses Wolfgang's damage by a lot. Wolfgang's max melee dps in normal circumstances is 272 with a dark sword. To surpass Wendy's damage he'd have to be using blowdarts 100% of the time. In case you're wondering, the dps with nightmare saddle is slightly lower, but it is still the best saddle in the game because its damage is very close to the war saddle (it's higher for every other character) and it does planar damage and has many other perks. This interaction is not balanced because only Wendy's 1.4 multiplier is applied while the 0.75 multiplier is ignored. I personally would like to see the 1.4 multiplier (or 1.6 when using the elixir) removed if Wendy is riding a beefalo. But this post is more raw data than a suggestion. And since we're talking about suggestions, I'd just like to point out that Wendy's dps with gestalt Abi falls really short compared to everything else, so I think she could be buffed a bit.

Looks like what needs to be nerfed is just shadow Abigail's vex damage, then. 

[Dingle]

Oh wow, at the top end, Wendy is doing 30% more damage than max Wolfgang.

[RussoDaFederal]

3 minutes ago, Fitzee said:

In regards to DPS or survivability?

I personally think both, but mostly the dps

[RussoDaFederal]

Just now, Fitzee said:

By how much?

Enough to surpass base Abi significantly since base Abi will always outclass her if she's fighting multiple mobs (considering that each mob hit effectively counts as more damage, so hitting 3 mobs for 40 damage will equal 120 damage total). Please remind me, how much damage is she dealing now? It was around 200, right? And did the time between attacks change, too?

[Koomin]

You should add a data point or something on the graph to show where show where Wendy + vex + murder + ornery + war saddle is (just a single point not a line), which would help evidence how out of family it is.

[RussoDaFederal]

9 minutes ago, Koomin said:

You should add a data point or something on the graph to show where show where Wendy + vex + murder + ornery + war saddle is (just a single point not a line), which would help evidence how out of family it is.

I did mark it bold on the text, it's 354.56. Unfortunately I don't know how to mark single points on Desmos (the calculator I'm using). If I manage to do that later, I'll update the figure

[Koomin]

4 minutes ago, RussoDaFederal said:

I did mark it bold on the text, it's 354.56. Unfortunately I don't know how to mark single points on Desmos (the calculator I'm using). If I manage to do that later, I'll update the figure

Just screenshot it or use snipping tool and add a dot with your mouse or on PowerPoint or something.  It would also be helpful if the numbers on the x-axis were visible.

[RussoDaFederal]

1 minute ago, Koomin said:

Just screenshot it or use snipping tool and add a dot with your mouse or on PowerPoint or something.  It would also be helpful if the numbers on the x-axis were visible.

I'll do that when I get home then. It was tedious enough to do that on my smartphone, editing images is even worse lol

[CremeLover]

8 minutes ago, RussoDaFederal said:

Please remind me, how much damage is she dealing now? It was around 200, right? And did the time between attacks change, too?

 

ABIGAIL_GESTALT_DAMAGE =
        {
            day = 100,
            dusk = 150,
            night = 250,
        },

LUNARELIXIR_DAMAGEBONUS_GESTALT = 100,

I believe her attack cooldown is 4 seconds, but you can use the attack at command from Team Spirit to make her do a dash of 40 damage in between the regular attack cooldown (or 140 if affected by the elixir). It uses the default damage variables for Abigail instead of the Gestalt ones, but it does take into account the Lunar Elixir.

[Lardee]

21 minutes ago, RussoDaFederal said:

I did mark it bold on the text, it's 354.56. Unfortunately I don't know how to mark single points on Desmos (the calculator I'm using). If I manage to do that later, I'll update the figure

Instead of making it a single point, how about also marking Wolfgang's theoretical maximum and connect the two with a dotted line.

[Koomin]

12 minutes ago, RussoDaFederal said:

I'll do that when I get home then. It was tedious enough to do that on my smartphone, editing images is even worse lol

Ah yes no worries I got you - this is correct right?

[Picklesaurus]

7 minutes ago, CremeLover said:

I believe her attack cooldown is 4 seconds

It is around 3,5 seconds.

[RussoDaFederal]

1 minute ago, CremeLover said:

 

ABIGAIL_GESTALT_DAMAGE =
        {
            day = 100,
            dusk = 150,
            night = 250,
        },

LUNARELIXIR_DAMAGEBONUS_GESTALT = 100,

I believe her attack cooldown is 4 seconds, but you can use the attack at command from Team Spirit to make her do a dash of 40 damage in between the regular attack cooldown (or 140 if affected by the elixir). It uses the default damage variables for Abigail instead of the Gestalt ones, but it does take into account the Lunar Elixir.

Yea, I think the 40 damage dash will be patched out though because that's default Abi damage. So not considering the dash you do 250 damage every 4 seconds. A dps of 62.5 isn't bad, but I think it should at least match shadow Abi's, so 320 night damage. That's the whole point of why she had 400 damage but would only attack every 5 seconds

3 minutes ago, Lardee said:

Instead of making it a single point, how about also marking Wolfgang's theoretical maximum and connect the two with a dotted line.

A dotted line is a good idea, I used a solid line and it wasn't very good visually

[Picklesaurus]

Just now, RussoDaFederal said:

Yea, I think the 40 damage dash will be patched out though because that's default Abi damage. So not considering the dash you do 250 damage every 4 seconds

It is around 3,5 seconds If im not mistaken. And she deals 275 damage not 250 damage because she buffs her damage by her own vex, which is weird. 

[RussoDaFederal]

2 minutes ago, Koomin said:

Ah yes no worries I got you - this is correct right?

That's it, but now that Lardee mentioned it, a dotted line would suit the graphic better

[erick was right]

where math for time spend doing murder every couple seconds?

[RussoDaFederal]

Just now, Picklesaurus said:

It is around 3,5 seconds If im not mistaken. And she deals 275 damage not 250 damage because she buffs her damage by her own vex, which is weird. 

Hmm 275 / 3.5 = 78.57, this comes much closer to shadow Abi but shadow Abi also buffs herself. I'd rather see that removed because it is indeed weird

[RussoDaFederal]

2 minutes ago, Cosiek said:

where math for time spend doing murder every couple seconds?

That's kinda irrelevant, don't you think? You also spend time kiting and/or healing, but if we account for that we'd never get anywhere

1 minute ago, Fitzee said:

I usually choose Shadow for its aesthetic and unique dialogue interactions with its weapons

Same. And you can tell by my profile picture that I think shadow Abi looks better too lol

[OMEGASCRUFF]

6 minutes ago, Cosiek said:

where math for time spend doing murder every couple seconds?

You don't have to do it every couple of seconds. You can do it up-front before the fight. It's not one-at-a-time. You can murder whole stacks. I'm not sure what the cap is on the duration, because it's more economic to do it in smaller chunks of 10 or so (and also helps with avoiding the server crash when the game saves... A friend told me that's STILL not fixed??), but she can catch bees so easily with Abigail's help that she can afford to be a bit wasteful with murder.

[CremeLover]

 

38 minutes ago, Picklesaurus said:

It is around 3,5 seconds.

Maybe. My testing was ingame, as the coding calculates period in a different way, so I didn't get the actual variable from the files.

35 minutes ago, Picklesaurus said:

And she deals 275 damage not 250 damage because she buffs her damage by her own vex, which is weird. 

I would say this is unintended, but the damage for Lunar Abigail has been changed enough times for people to notice, so I can't really say for certain. However, Shadow Abigail is also doing more damage at the moment, and that has been already patched for the next hotfix

37 minutes ago, RussoDaFederal said:

Yea, I think the 40 damage dash will be patched out though because that's default Abi damage.

Is the Dash going to be disabled entirely or is it being replaced with the appropiate Abigail damage?

 

 

[RussoDaFederal]

13 minutes ago, CremeLover said:

Is the Dash going to be disabled entirely or is it being replaced with the appropiate Abigail damage?

I'd be extremely disappointed if it was removed, I hope it's replaced. Klei could change the cursor to solve this issue more easily. You know when you place your cursor over certain objects and they "light up"? They could do that with mobs, make Abi attack the one mob under the player's cursor when using the attack command

[Reiko24]

1 hour ago, RussoDaFederal said:

Hey everyone, I made a whole graphic comparison in another post but turns out I got some variables wrong, so I want to redo it. The idea was to compare Wendy's damage with Wes, Wilson and Wolfgang, since they're supposedly the weakest, average and strongest characters regarding damage. The dps calculation goes like this:

The y axis is the dps and the x axis is weapon damage, so we can calculate the dps as f(x) instead of thinking about every single weapon out there. Planar damage will be excluded since it is not affected by multipliers. Wendy's multipliers are 0.75, 1.4 and 1.1, because Abi's vex 1.1 multiplier works for every character, and it stacks with Wendy's 1.4 multiplier when hitting vexed mobs. What I didn't know and I'm correcting right now is that these numbers change way more drastically than I anticipated with the vex elixir. 1.4 becomes 1.6 and 1.1 becomes 1.3. So the final result for each damage function is:

Wes (red): 1.5x

Wilson (blue): 2x

Wolfgang (green): 4x

Wendy (purple): 2.31x + 40

Wendy w/ vex & murder (black): 3.12x + 80

Wendy's (no buffs) dps and Wolfgang's dps intersect at around (24, 95), which means Wolfgang only does more damage than Wendy if he's using a weapon that deals more than 24 damage (most weapons). But the intersection between buffed Wendy and Wolfgang is around (91, 364), which means Wolfgang only surpasses Wendy's damage if he's using blowdarts.

And beefalo damage was also wrong in my previous post. I said it was 34 but that's the value for the default beefalo, not ornery. Ornery has 50 base damage plus 16 with the war saddle. So its dps is 243.28. It's on par with Wolfgang with a ham bat. With the vex elixir and murder, however, it goes up to 354.56. It surpasses Wolfgang's damage by a lot. Wolfgang's max melee dps in normal circumstances is 272 with a dark sword. To surpass Wendy's damage he'd have to be using blowdarts 100% of the time. In case you're wondering, the dps with nightmare saddle is slightly lower, but it is still the best saddle in the game because its damage is very close to the war saddle (it's higher for every other character) and it does planar damage and has many other perks. This interaction is not balanced because only Wendy's 1.4 multiplier is applied while the 0.75 multiplier is ignored. I personally would like to see the 1.4 multiplier (or 1.6 when using the elixir) removed if Wendy is riding a beefalo. But this post is more raw data than a suggestion. And since we're talking about suggestions, I'd just like to point out that Wendy's dps with gestalt Abi falls really short compared to everything else, so I think she could be buffed a bit.

They will not care. Wendy is Wes level, Abigail is weak. Needs more survivability.

[Koomin]

59 minutes ago, RussoDaFederal said:

That's it, but now that Lardee mentioned it, a dotted line would suit the graphic better

Not super sure what the dotted line is for, but here you go, and looks nice