Let's take a step back and think this through (suggestion for a final version of Wendy's skill tree)

[Dingle]

1 hour ago, Steorra said:

I was just changed a bit for my previous idea after I did the armored bearger myself by beefalo shadow abi combo.

【测试服温蒂 无角色标签（PlayerTag） 战牛阿比月熊-哔哩哔哩】 https://b23.tv/OYIezv8

Took about 1min30sec to finish the battle by feefalo shadow abi

【维斯无加速无亮茄无伤月熊-哔哩哔哩】 https://b23.tv/vNAkLUV

Took about 1min30sec to finish the battle by Wes with no speed boosting, though the poster have better skill than me.

 

I found that cursed vex with beefalo have a similar problem to the previous Shadow abi who is lack of planar damage.

And beefalo have a critical downside of knockdown.

I guess to nerf general damage from cursed vex but give it some planar damage would be better, maybe? Still lack of some mature ideas...

In your video, are you just not using sisturn 3? Wondering why you used team spirit commands.

[Steorra]

8 hours ago, Dingle said:

In your video, are you just not using sisturn 3? Wondering why you used team spirit commands.

yes, I have not using sisturn 3

since it for showing how the logic "I need not so it is unnecessary" is toxic.

[WereBruhver]

14 minutes ago, Shining Galaxy said:

The suggestions in this post reconciled the views of both sides, perhaps because they were acceptable to most people

Nah, it does not reconcile, I for example didn't like this suggestion and only 3 non baidu tieba users liked this post out of 10 reactions.

[Picklesaurus]

36 minutes ago, Shining Galaxy said:

The suggestions in this post reconciled the views of both sides, perhaps because they were acceptable to most people, more radical views have received more attention than this post. 

I didn't like it, it is too radical of a suggestion, 1200 hp is too much.

[DVGMedia]

12 minutes ago, Picklesaurus said:

I didn't like it, it is too radical of a suggestion, 1200 hp is too much.

But why do you think its too much?

I think its a good balance Because having 9 hits instead of 5 is much better than having 7 with 900 on basic bosses. and cure all only boosts that by potentially 4

deerclops and 75/150 bosses take 5 hits to kill abby right now from full at 600 because abby regens and gets a extra hit in.
having  900 boosts that up to 7 But 1200 takes it up to 9. That allows players to use abby and potentially hide her away so she doesn't die.  There is alot more applications and timings that are not taken into account thanks to the random things players do.  

Max health is more useful in general. while giving a bonus to bosses but not too much of a bonus.

I really don't think 1200 hp is going to hurt any form of balance.

[Steorra]

2 minutes ago, Fitzee said:

It feels impossible to tell what fate Blessed Sisturn III holds; whether it ends up being good or not, no one will know for certain.

I can  only hope that Team Spirit gets improved.

I hope pipspooks could be take care..

[DVGMedia]

2 minutes ago, Fitzee said:

It feels impossible to tell what fate Blessed Sisturn III holds; whether it ends up being good or not, no one will know for certain.

I can  only hope that Team Spirit gets improved.

I think team spirit just needs separate cooldowns. and shortening the cast

And a command that makes abby a nuke where she flys up and does gestalt damage where wendy targets {joke}

[Steorra]

1 minute ago, DVGMedia said:

I think team spirit just needs separate cooldowns. and shortening the cast

And a command that makes abby a nuke where she flys up and does gestalt damage where wendy targets {joke}

I personally found that the "escape" of team spirit seems useless...

[somethin]

At this point why don't just give her slow regenerating shields that negate hits as long as the sisturn is filled? Boss attacks are mostly slow but deal high damage in one hit which this negate while being mostly useless when Abigail is swarmed, which is not a big problem for Abigail in the first place. And if she survive long enough she can eat an extra hit for free. We also don't even have to go into headache of balancing the health numbers.

[DVGMedia]

18 minutes ago, Fitzee said:

That's assuming the forums ever "got to me" in the first place; do not make assumptions like that ever again. 

Anyways, you only suggest cooldowns and animations; there are clearly more issues than that.

I actually make suggestions with both parties in mind; for example:

you just made big assumptions on me soooooooooo. What you said to me was just rude and sounded like an attack. Im trying to get to the best solution too alright?

I like alot of the suggestions you have made honestly hotkeys are great and would totally make things easier since i enjoy the abigail hot keys mod.  Its so easy to use abby pre patch since didn't need to fiddle with the menu. But now the player has to deal with a clunky menu And it ruins any form of muscle memory the player had previously.

As for new commands I don't think they will be adding anything new since the ones you suggested are basically similar to the ones enabled. Which would tie way better to the hot keys if they had seperate cooldowns and lower activation.

There is also a mod for maxwell and willow that does better spell casting that does basically everything you asked for with wendy and abby.
Its just something i don't think klei would implement in the base game So unfortunately it may just be a mod solution...

 

[DVGMedia]

1 minute ago, Fitzee said:

Tell that to @Pig Princess then, who believes adding a bunch more commands without improving the usability of the existing ones is a good idea. 

Sometimes there are problems that exist that should be dealt with however they arent' The same happend with maxwell and willows command wheel.
There is a mod that fixes them and makes the casting more streamlined and concise. And i think that would work great for abby and wendy now. But expecting klei to do it. Is unfortunately rare.

It would be great if they did.  But alot of times when klei has an idea they really like to go with it. It takes an extreme amount of backlash in order for them to rethink things.
... just speaking from experience...

[RussoDaFederal]

1 minute ago, WereBruhver said:

Its literally the name of the forum the site they are coming from -.- chinese reddit or something, they say it themselves

Ohhh I thought it was something else. My bad then.

[DVGMedia]

2 minutes ago, Fitzee said:

Are you going to share, or is it a "KB+M" secret you are keeping to yourself?

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3102130643&searchtext=better+spell+casting
Well not that i know of.
im pretty certain can set it to custom buttons for whatever device you use.  I personally never really used it for willow and maxwell.
but it is getting an update to include wendy and abby so may start using it now.

[RussoDaFederal]

1 hour ago, WereBruhver said:

I for example didn't like this suggestion

How would you like to address this issue then? From my understanding you also believe the player tag for Abigail should be removed. But by doing so, sisturn 3 needs something else to replace it. The previous version provided extra health too but it was limited and not worth it. It feels like in this version it was buffed from absolute trash to quite literally the new meta. What would you replace it with? Would 900 health instead of 1200 be ok?

[Pig Princess]

1 minute ago, Fitzee said:

I guess seeing too many unrealistic suggestions got to me. My apologies. 

Mouring glory crown also seemed unrealistic and poorly thought to me. Yet Klei implemented it. Did I come up to you thread or mentioned you for picking the fight? No. Do I come up to your threads now or mention you because I might not like your suggestion? No. Please do the same for me. 

And do you think I believe there is a high chance of my suggestions being implemented? I don't think so, but considering lack of creativity on Klei side and demand for better control of Abigail, I might as well try. After all if I don't try, the chance of failure is 100%.

Also there is a chance someone likes it and makes a mod. 

[Dingle]

7 minutes ago, RussoDaFederal said:

How would you like to address this issue then? From my understanding you also believe the player tag for Abigail should be removed. But by doing so, sisturn 3 needs something else to replace it. The previous version provided extra health too but it was limited and not worth it. It feels like in this version it was buffed from absolute trash to quite literally the new meta. What would you replace it with? Would 900 health instead of 1200 be ok?

900 health seems pretty good, for 3 insight points.

I'd probably take it, but it wouldn't be a mindless "must always get" at that number.

[Soul7k]

2 hours ago, Steorra said:

I personally found that the "escape" of team spirit seems useless...

I am also having this issue. It feels like it doesn't do anything since they patched it. but maybe I am missing something

[YuRinshue]

I think there are many desirable parts in your idea, mainly referring to the core changes. Of course, the term 'desirable' here mainly refers to the recognition of these two related contents separately. But for the other parts of the skill tree that are not discussed in this post, I believe many people, like me, still feel that they are unqualified rather than satisfied. For example, team spirit、 the task of Pipspook、gravestone、 Ghostly Elixir and Mourning Glory Wreath。 I have written or seen relevant suggestion posts that may have reference value, and I wonder if you mind if I promote them here as links.

[Debruh]

More commands wouldn't be that bad. Thr skill tree would just have to put locks do you can't take all of them

[Pig Princess]

1 hour ago, Debruh said:

More commands wouldn't be that bad. Thr skill tree would just have to put locks do you can't take all of them

But why shouldn't one have all commands? Just because UI was not updated?

I'm not sure what word would describe disappointment if instead of fixing problem developers decided to add locks so problem would look less important. Insincere? Cheap? I hope it doesn't come to this.

Spoiler

When it comes to kb&m, option to bind commands to keyboard would solve this problem at least for some people (me included). For those who find selecting commands with mouse comfortable, wouldn't it be fine if commands were shown above inventory in line? Or does it have to be in the center of the screen for UI to be comfortable? I myself use a mod to bind existing commands to keyboard because I move with mouse, so I genuely don't know how to make it comfortable for people whose comfort is different than mine.

I don't know how command wheel works with controller, but what about second circle around the first one? What about in-game UI/setting that would allow you to select 2-4 most popular commands from the list you have available and show them like they are today? In that case you could pick what you need before particular fight.

 

[Lee lol]

4分钟前，猪公主说：

但为什么一个人不应该拥有所有命令呢？仅仅因为用户界面没有更新？

如果开发人员没有解决问题，而是决定添加锁，这样问题看起来就不会那么重要了，我不确定用什么词来形容失望。不真诚？便宜吗？我希望它不会走到这一地。

说到kb&m，将命令绑定到键盘的选项至少对某些人（包括我）来说可以解决这个问题。对于那些觉得用鼠标选择命令很舒服的人来说，如果命令显示在库存的行上方，那不是很好吗？还是它必须位于屏幕中央，用户界面才能舒适？我自己使用mod将现有命令绑定到键盘上，因为我用鼠标移动，所以我真的不知道如何让舒适度与我不同的人感到舒适。

我不知道命令轮是如何与控制器配合的，但第一个圆圈周围的第二个圆圈呢？游戏内UI/设置如何，它允许您从可用的列表中选择2-4个最受欢迎的命令，并像今天一样显示它们？在这种情况下，你可以在特定战斗前选择你需要的东西。

I really hope that the command can be displayed directly above the inventory, so that we don't have to be stiff because of the use of commands, which is very inconvenient in battle...

[RussoDaFederal]

4 hours ago, YuRinshue said:

I think there are many desirable parts in your idea, mainly referring to the core changes. Of course, the term 'desirable' here mainly refers to the recognition of these two related contents separately. But for the other parts of the skill tree that are not discussed in this post, I believe many people, like me, still feel that they are unqualified rather than satisfied. For example, team spirit、 the task of Pipspook、gravestone、 Ghostly Elixir and Mourning Glory Wreath。 I have written or seen relevant suggestion posts that may have reference value, and I wonder if you mind if I promote them here as links.

I disagree, I think the rest of the skill tree is fine. But like you said, this is a topic for a different post