Suggestion: An actual solution to appease everyone! (Hopefully?)

[Steorra]

3 minutes ago, RussoDaFederal said:

Alright, that much is true, but tell me why that matters. Webber can summon spiders to do a lot of damage. So what? What's your point? Wendy needs to be stronger than everyone?

You should know there's not only two options of "Stronger than everyone" or "weaker than everyone". 

I know you have basis concept of Balance itself. I guess more talking is meaningless.

6 minutes ago, RussoDaFederal said:

 Let's buff Wolfgang then since he can't come even close to dealing the same damage as Webber or Wurt. Let's buff everyone to deal around the same damage as 20 followers, how does that sound?

the logic behind the comparision between Wendy, Webber and Wurt is "the follower is the main (or only) core feature of them)

the logic behind the comparision between Wendy, Willow and Woodie is "the follower is Wendy's only core feature, but for those who are't, they still better than Abi on survival. Which means Abi's survival is not "immortal" nor "strong".

[RussoDaFederal]

1 minute ago, Steorra said:

I guess more talking is meaningless.

I guess it is, since you refuse to touch the topic of balance. You haven't provided a single point regarding balance so far, you're just saying that other characters can do other things that Wendy can't. And that's the point of having multiple characters to choose.

[Steorra]

3 minutes ago, RussoDaFederal said:

4th time. Just answer my question, please. Feel free to ignore anything else, just answer this one question regarding objective balance.

You start to behave like Lardee, gave a pointless question and go after me continuosly.

 

Just now, RussoDaFederal said:

I guess it is, since you refuse to touch the topic of balance. You haven't provided a single point regarding balance so far, you're just saying that other characters can do other things that Wendy can't. And that's the point of having multiple characters to choose.

I was gave my balance logic above.

In reverse I have no idea about your logic behind "Wolfgang V.S Webber"

This may be off-topic, but do you know that Wolfgang could amplify his followers by simply 200% damage out put?

[RussoDaFederal]

Just now, Steorra said:

You start to behave like Lardee, gave a pointless question and go after me continuosly.

 

It's not pointless, it is the whole point of the discussion. Is 50% damage reduction combined with spectral cure all busted or not? If it isn't, provide some hard numbers to prove your point. Many people including me have pointed out that it is, the double effectiveness of spectral cure all was not intended and is too strong. If you want to prove the opposite, provide some data. I'm not attacking you, I'm not being sarcastic like Lardee, I'm just asking you to provide hard data. We already reached an agreement on another post, I don't understand why you keep being so stubborn here.

[Steorra]

7 minutes ago, RussoDaFederal said:

It's not pointless, it is the whole point of the discussion. Is 50% damage reduction combined with spectral cure all busted or not? If it isn't, provide some hard numbers to prove your point.

I already provide special follower comparison to proved my point. Whether you accept them or not. I did what I should. Other thing is none of my business.

in all special followers, Abi is the weakest one in current beta, even some of other have no skill tree. that's your "STRONG"

Oh, yes Shadow Duelist is the most fragile special follower of all DST characters. 

It's too lucky that Abi haven't reach the lowest line. Ok, "Immortal" Abi but the second fragile special follower of the whole DST.

[RussoDaFederal]

Just now, Steorra said:

I already provide follower comparison to proved my point. Whether you accept them or not. I did what I should. Other thing is none of my business.

I give up. You criterion for balancing the game is that Abigail should do as much damage and have as much survivability as the strongest of armies, apparently. I absolutely refuse this criterion. It's not even close to being objective. My criterion is comparing current Abi with pre update Abi. You see, when you work with research, one of the first steps is to reach reasonable criteria to evaluate your study. This is the main problem in discussions not only in this forum, but anywhere. Apparently it's too much to ask for people to come up with reasonable criteria. I'll just pretend this topic doesn't exist anymore and focus on the other one where we reached an agreement.

[Steorra]

2 minutes ago, RussoDaFederal said:

I give up. You criterion for balancing the game is that Abigail should do as much damage and have as much survivability as the strongest of armies, 

No?

My opinion is that Abi need no Wolfgang-like damage, even you could go ask to nerf what she have at the current level;

But Abi should be same immortal as other characters who have special followers. At least Abi should be same tanky as others who are even not a core feature of their character.

And last,

Abi SHOULD NOT be the second fragile of the whole DST special followers as the only core feature of Wendy, and call it as "immortal" is completely lie.

[Dingle]

7 minutes ago, Steorra said:

No?

My opinion is that Abi need no Wolfgang-like damage, even you could go ask to nerf what she have at the current level;

But Abi should be same immortal as other characters who have special followers. At least Abi should be same tanky as others who are even not a core feature of their character.

And last,

Abi SHOULD NOT be the second fragile of the whole DST special followers as the only core feature of Wendy, and call it as "immortal" is completely lie.

This clarifies your viewpoint nicely.

When you throw a bunch of "well look at these characters!" comparisons around, it really does make it look like you're asking that Abigail is able to kill any boss in the game in 30 seconds, with no preparation time.

[Steorra]

25 minutes ago, Dingle said:

This clarifies your viewpoint nicely.

When you throw a bunch of "well look at these characters!" comparisons around, it really does make it look like you're asking that Abigail is able to kill any boss in the game in 30 seconds, with no preparation time.

No, I was asking to nerf Shadow Abi's DPS due to her DPS is closing to Wolfgang, but if she has not been nerf, I'd be fine as well.

Tbh I don't care what crazy current Wendy DPS was, because in fact all other characters who have special followers could dealt more crazy DPS than Wendy, besides Willow.

But Willow has a skill tree which covered almost all downside of her. Now her only downside is of the wet.

[Evelo]

10 hours ago, Xplan said:

but what is the advantage of making it a server toggle instead of a skill.

I stated in the original post. Give balance to the server host rather than force it upon everyone equally.

10 hours ago, Evelo said:

if we move the option to balance behind a server setting then players can balance how they want on a per server basis, rather than blanket across the entire game.

10 hours ago, Evelo said:

While we are at it we can add other gameplay balance settings into the DST server settings list. Such as celestial portal being craftable, skill trees being enabled/disabled, etc.

[Mike23Ua]

16 minutes ago, Evelo said:

I stated in the original post. Give balance to the server host rather than force it upon everyone equally.

My question is why would Klei do that though? For one it’s a waste of Wendy’s skill points if someone other than Wendy has control over how effective it is.

And two: They added a whole bunch of new crap to Wendy during her Beta that adds to her combat capabilities-

Elixer Drinking, “BigSpooks” For boss fights, being able to relocate the graves so the BigSpooks are Near the Bosses to Begin With, Cheaper Revives for your failures.

Oh I forgot potion that restores blacked out portions of your health core like a Booster Shot!

All of This is on par with Woodie crafting his Treeguard totems and using them to help him in a big boss fight If his Wereforms alone couldn’t get the job done.

I personally think Klei has definitely Over-Buffed Wendy at this point.

[gaymime]

11 hours ago, Evelo said:

So since some people really want Abigail to be super tanky, and others want her to stay fragile, how about we just have it a server toggle, this would give various player entity protection to ghost creatures (including Abigail).

Call it Ghostly Protection:  Flimsy | Default | Protected

Flimsy: Ghosts take extra damage from all sources. (They take between 50%-100% extra damage depending on what Klei wants to do, 50% is half, 100% is double.)

Default: What we currently have in Live DST

Protected: Ghosts have player protection. (or Take between 50%-100% less damage depending on what Klei wants to do, 50% is half, 100% is double.)

 

Why I believe this would be a better work around:

This would give players who wish to have the player protection for abigail while letting it be a choice based on the server host, that way if someone wants to play multiplayer with others, they can host the world with their rule set.

The main issue seems to be balance which we cannot agree on: if we move the option to balance behind a server setting then players can balance how they want on a per server basis, rather than blanket across the entire game.

 

While we are at it we can add other gameplay balance settings into the DST server settings list. Such as celestial portal being craftable, skill trees being enabled/disabled, etc. We already have some balance adjustment stuff when you consider Max Health Penalty, Damage taken, Temperature Damage, Hunger Damage, Darkness Damage, etc. We have non-lethal options for those, with damage we have a "more" choice, how about we do this for more? It would benefit everyone in the long run.

this is a lovely idea but the majority of the players who want to make abigail a tank do not want to let people play her any other way. they want it to be a fixed stationary thing that wendy is better than anyone else so they can be comforted knowing that they chose the "best" and they can "beat" the game no matter how much or how little they play it.

the toggle works if you are looking at the function of actually playing the game. it does not work if you are appeasing at the mindset of desiring to have the undisputed best thing in the game. people who wanted wendy to be strong and capable have alrady calmed down. the people who cannot be satisfied are who are still unhappy

[Jakepeng99]

11 hours ago, Evelo said:

So since some people really want Abigail to be super tanky, and others want her to stay fragile, how about we just have it a server toggle, this would give various player entity protection to ghost creatures (including Abigail).

Call it Ghostly Protection:  Flimsy | Default | Protected

Flimsy: Ghosts take extra damage from all sources. (They take between 50%-100% extra damage depending on what Klei wants to do, 50% is half, 100% is double.)

Default: What we currently have in Live DST

Protected: Ghosts have player protection. (or Take between 50%-100% less damage depending on what Klei wants to do, 50% is half, 100% is double.)

 

Why I believe this would be a better work around:

This would give players who wish to have the player protection for abigail while letting it be a choice based on the server host, that way if someone wants to play multiplayer with others, they can host the world with their rule set.

The main issue seems to be balance which we cannot agree on: if we move the option to balance behind a server setting then players can balance how they want on a per server basis, rather than blanket across the entire game.

 

While we are at it we can add other gameplay balance settings into the DST server settings list. Such as celestial portal being craftable, skill trees being enabled/disabled, etc. We already have some balance adjustment stuff when you consider Max Health Penalty, Damage taken, Temperature Damage, Hunger Damage, Darkness Damage, etc. We have non-lethal options for those, with damage we have a "more" choice, how about we do this for more? It would benefit everyone in the long run.

Change it to followers in general and its a decent idea.

[gaymime]

2 minutes ago, Jakepeng99 said:

Change it to followers in general and its a decent idea.

that would wreck the game in pubs but if we are going to be messy i am into it X''D me and 1 invincible pig just doing chip damage for 5 hours on lunar bearger

[Evelo]

42 minutes ago, Jakepeng99 said:

Change it to followers in general and its a decent idea.

Great idea!

[Mike23Ua]

1 minute ago, Evelo said:

Great idea!

Why? Indirect secret buff to wormwoods Saladmanders perhaps?  

[Grove]

1 hour ago, Mike23Ua said:

BigSpooks” For boss fights, being able to relocate the graves so the BigSpooks are Near the Bosses to Begin With

Am I the only one that actually hates this? Like, the whole point of Wendy is that works in tandem with Abby. Now she gets other mobs that can fight for her as well? If they were mobs that everyone can use, okay then. But no, they're Wendy exclusive, kinda ruins the whole 'I'm incomplete ever since Abby died'

[Mike23Ua]

3 minutes ago, Debruh said:

Am I the only one that actually hates this? Like, the whole point of Wendy is that works in tandem with Abby. Now she gets other mobs that can fight for her as well? If they were mobs that everyone can use, okay then. But no, they're Wendy exclusive, kinda ruins the whole 'I'm incomplete ever since Abby died'

I see it as her connection with the dead (not just her sister but ALL of the dead..) has grown significantly stronger, Abigail was a weak little girl, but those Bigger Spooks could be something not even human..? They could be ghosts of Beefalo, they could be ghosts of the Ancients.. they’re something MORE than Abigail and they should rightfully be stronger…

It’s just like how in real life (if you believe in ghosts) there are peaceful spirits, and then there are much more powerful and aggressive Poltergeists.

It fits Wendy’s Personality just as much as allowing Woodie (the character who chops trees relentlessly) to craft totems to summon Treeguards for help in boss fights.

[Grove]

7 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

I see it as her connection with the dead (not just her sister but ALL of the dead..) has grown significantly stronger, Abigail was a weak little girl, but those Bigger Spooks could be something not even human..? They could be ghosts of Beefalo, they could be ghosts of the Ancients.. they’re something MORE than Abigail and they should rightfully be stronger…

It’s just like how in real life (if you believe in ghosts) there are peaceful spirits, and then there are much more powerful and aggressive Poltergeists.

It fits Wendy’s Personality just as much as allowing Woodie (the character who chops trees relentlessly) to craft totems to summon Treeguards for help in boss fights.

Personally, I thought that their strength would be more used in creating a save heaven like the skill was apparently trying to do, rather than helping in boss slaying. Also considering ghosts are weaker than Abby, I always thought that the strength of thr spirit was less of what they were, but their connection to the living world. With Abby and Wendy's connection being so strong that it makes Abby pretty powerful. Interesting point of view, though.

[hyoton123]

1 hour ago, Debruh said:

Am I the only one that actually hates this? Like, the whole point of Wendy is that works in tandem with Abby. Now she gets other mobs that can fight for her as well? If they were mobs that everyone can use, okay then. But no, they're Wendy exclusive, kinda ruins the whole 'I'm incomplete ever since Abby died'

I’m incomplete ever since abby died…and her garage band!