Yes, Abi SHOULD be "immortal" and this enhanced Wendy's identity. (Survey for attitudes of Abi's survival)

[Steorra]

1. Abi is the only core feature of Wendy unlike BERNIE! to Willow, Treeguards to Woodie. Which means if Abi dead or disabled then Wendy just lost all her main feature and become a Wes-plus character. This was a regular scenarios before but this is unhealthy for Wendy's identity. To lose one's all core feature is unacceptable for DST gameplay.

 

2. Ofc Abi should not be completely invincible, but for current stage we are nowhere near that milestone. The worries about an invisible Abi is illusion for this beta patch. Whether Spider swarm with nurses, Merms and Treeguards summoned by Woodie is far more "immortal" than current Abi, and all of them have far more crazier DPS than Wendy. Even we have no need to say that Treeguards is not a main feature of Woodie.

 

3. If you think Wendy would become OP due to the survival buff for Abi, we have more accessible options to adjust for balance's sake. We could nerf pipspooks line to ensure that "Cure-All" would not be abuse. We could to nerf Vex damage (particularly for Shadow Abi) to ensure that even Abi become "immortal" there's still no impact to current balance. We have no need to be obsessed with only the survival of Abi aspect.

 

Last. the companion of Abi in every scenarios is basis feature of Wendy, it should not be a privilege for those who have enough experience & skills of Wendy. It should be accessible for EVERY Wendy players.  Gatekeeping for this feature is toxic.

 

for TLDR:

Abi is the only core feature of Wendy, death or disable of Abi is unacceptable for Wendy. Abi should become hardly to die in average management (Doesn't means that Abi should be invincible if Wendy do nothing to her.)

 

 

Additional info about Webber:

Spoiler

Spiders are far more cheaper than someone's imagination for Webber. And they are more easier to manage without any skill tree than current Abi. See reference:

EZ spider armies building method - 

韦伯如何利用蛛网岩无限制获取喷吐蜘蛛？_网络游戏热门视频

韦伯如何无限制的获取破碎蜘蛛?_网络游戏热门视频

How spider swarmed Toad and Armored Bearger - 

【饥荒】韦伯50秒击杀毒菌蟾蜍，破碎蜘蛛的伤害能有多离谱_哔哩哔哩bilibili_饥荒_游戏集锦

韦伯破碎蜘蛛装甲熊獾_哔哩哔哩_bilibili

I guess there's no need to introduce how Treeguards overwhelmed AFW & CC for Woodie?

 

Also just started an additional discussion about "high risk high rewards" in general branch

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

*Personally I think Player Tag for Abi should be a default setting rather than a temporary skill. But at the same time I think Vex damage of Wendy (Especially from Shadow Abi) need nerf.

Abi should be strengthen with other sacrifice from other aspects.

 

[1007954611]

I think ordinary Abi is fine now，But Gestalt Abigail still needs more enhancement

[Mike23Ua]

I would had normally agreed with you that Abigail was Wendy’s only feature, but the new beta has proven my original agreement false.

Wendy can now drink Elixers, relocate graves, hire ghosties.. 

Shes more then JUST Abigail now, Abigail even has new functions to help with Non-Combat related stuff like “haunt” which will be able to change the status of several objects within the game world.

But this poll is highly unfair: because I remember the original Dont starve game where if you let Abigail get “killed” her flower dropped to the ground in the location she died in (most likely a highly dangerous enemy filled area) AND even if you DID recover the flower from this location you could not summon Abigail out of it at all for 3-4 game days till it bloomed back out fully again.

Hilariously- WILLOW now plays more like OG Wendy then Wendy does (Bernie Dies and falls to the ground in Whatever dangerous spot he died In)

Wendy was made overpowered the moment Klei allowed you to endlessly summon her continuously over and over again without the flower ever falling to the ground in a dangerous spot or being destroyed.

Her Skill Tree only managed to make her even more Overkill than her rework already was.

[1007954611]

19 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

I would had normally agreed with you that Abigail was Wendy’s only feature, but the new beta has proven my original agreement false.

Wendy can now drink Elixers, relocate graves, hire ghosties.. 

Shes more then JUST Abigail now, Abigail even has new functions to help with Non-Combat related stuff like “haunt” which will be able to change the status of several objects within the game world.

But this poll is highly unfair: because I remember the original Dont starve game where if you let Abigail get “killed” her flower dropped to the ground in the location she died in (most likely a highly dangerous enemy filled area) AND even if you DID recover the flower from this location you could not summon Abigail out of it at all for 3-4 game days till it bloomed back out fully again.

Hilariously- WILLOW now plays more like OG Wendy then Wendy does (Bernie Dies and falls to the ground in Whatever dangerous spot he died In)

Wendy was made overpowered the moment Klei allowed you to endlessly summon her continuously over and over again without the flower ever falling to the ground in a dangerous spot or being destroyed.

Her Skill Tree only managed to make her even more Overkill than her rework already was.

I remember very clearly that in the early days, Abigail flowers did not share the charging progress, which meant that when fighting against bosses, one could prepare a pile of fully charged and blooming Abigail flowers, and immediately summon them again when they died. However, this operation was also very troublesome and had little practical significance

我记得很清楚，早期Abigail 花是不共用充能进度的，这意味着boss可以准备一堆已经充能完成盛放的Abigail 花，死了立刻重新召唤，不过这种操作也是非常麻烦没什么实际意义

[Steorra]

23 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Wendy can now drink Elixers, relocate graves, hire ghosties.. 

these things might be debatable for me. since for me they are more like an enhancement for QoL & Base decoration aspect. They do no impact to Wendy's main playstyle.

Though I do love the nightshade elixirs effect for characters. But just for reminder that this could do effect to others. Wendy may fell into a situation which Warly was for Elixir sharing aspect.

23 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

But this poll is highly unfair: because I remember the original Dont starve game where if you let Abigail get “killed” her flower dropped to the ground in the location she died in (most likely a highly dangerous enemy filled area) AND even if you DID recover the flower from this location you could not summon Abigail out of it at all for 3-4 game days till it bloomed back out fully again.

Yes I sharing same memories as yours about original DS, but I prefer to see the change of Abi summoning mechanic as a "fix" for better DST experience, but not a "change". It means that there's a posibility that Klei just fix this mechanic since they think the original style is unhealthy for DST if they want goes further.

23 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Hilariously- WILLOW now plays more like OG Wendy then Wendy does (Bernie Dies and falls to the ground in Whatever dangerous spot he died In)

Willow could easily to achieve BERNIE! duplications for avoiding this scenario. BERNIE! duplications is more like an alternative version of Ghastly Experience which is not stackable. And BERNIE! duplications provide an alternative "regeneration" way (what cure-all did to Abi) for themselves.

23 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Wendy was made overpowered the moment Klei allowed you to endlessly summon her continuously over and over again without the flower ever falling to the ground in a dangerous spot or being destroyed.

I personally don't like the Ghastly Experience. I prefer to think it was just a try of Klei which aimed to satisfied those who wish there's always companions from Abi. But it failed. Now both side people started to point out this elixirs is just a meaningless and broken things these days.

additionally if I recall correctly, the Abi's flower is still flammable. You would lose it if you dead near fire.

yes the Abi's flower is still flammable and only for 7.5s before you have to recraft a new flower.

[Jakepeng99]

You are going to ruin Wendy.

[Steorra]

3 minutes ago, Jakepeng99 said:

You are going to ruin Wendy.

Show up your evidence to join the discussion. Simply "no" is more like "Jakepeng99 need to be nerf"

[Jakepeng99]

10 minutes ago, Steorra said:

Show up your evidence to join the discussion. Simply "no" is more like "Jakepeng99 need to be nerf"

I already did. Many other people already did with video evidence. 

[Steorra]

1 minute ago, Jakepeng99 said:

I already did. Many other people already did with video evidence. 

I don't think this thread are just a duplication of those discussion.

opps if you think there's only 2 options as "nerf Wendy" and "buff Wendy", then this thread might be a duplication for you personally.

[ArtiTheFool]

I mean, to be fair you will only lose Abigail if you play poorly, even from a noob stand point.

[Reiko24]

32 minutes ago, Jakepeng99 said:

You are going to ruin Wendy.

Yep. And video evidence isn’t enough for them from what I see. 

[Debruh]

Isn't Wendy's whole point working with Abigail?

Dodging in ways that allow Abby to avoid damage

Tanking when necessary to avoid Abby getting targeted

Knowing what elixirs to use and when

The team spirit skills even expand on that

Abby becoming nigh immortal,  just ruins that. She doesn't become a sister you try to protect, but just another follower. Wendy won't need to interact with Abby at all, because she'll just survive anyways. She goes from an actual companion, unique from all other followers, to just a built it aoe damage source that increases your damage

[Steorra]

16 minutes ago, Debruh said:

Isn't Wendy's whole point working with Abigail?

Dodging in ways that allow Abby to avoid damage

Tanking when necessary to avoid Abby getting targeted

Knowing what elixirs to use and when

The team spirit skills even expand on that

Abby becoming nigh immortal,  just ruins that. She doesn't become a sister you try to protect, but just another follower. Wendy won't need to interact with Abby at all, because she'll just survive anyways. She goes from an actual companion, unique from all other followers, to just a built it aoe damage source that increases your damage

I guess I would agree with you somehow.

Yeah to protect Abi is another feature of Wendy playstyle. But this should be not a hard task for average players in average bosses scenarios. This should just be not boring as a "spamming cure-all" way.

I guess the issue is hiding in the cure-all effectiveness. It becomes far cheaper under the pipspooks line, which made spamming elixirs become a achievable option. Spamming elixir is unhealthy as I think, since it's weird that you just protected your sister easily by spamming right click.

I don't think player tag is the problem, if Abi have no player tag then there would be many problems for average players since Abi would easily be sudden death before players give a right reaction. 

Maybe to nerf pipspooks line is a alternative way to limit the elixir spamming problem?

 

Also I have an idea is that to buff Shadow Abi DPS slightly but nerf her duration rapidly for balance sake. This would make Shadow Abi bemore more "high risk high rewards" style for who enjoys this part.

[kroban]

I think the player tag is fine, but like be fair Klei, give it to Webber's spiders and Willow's Bernie too.

My issue is with Cure All. It lasts 20 seconds now, Abigail receiving less damage means the potion is now healing for 50% more. Its one of the strongest elixirs for Abigail, and you can mass produce it easily (considering you can now have tombstone closer, the easier farming of mourning glory, and telltale hearts not being a cost if Wendy pretty much afk farm spiders for glands, food, and sleeping tents for the hp)

Klei should probably give it a cd or make it heal less. But I agree with @Jakepeng99 in that, ironically, yall Wendy players could end up ruining Wendy. If she becomes some easy mode character with an inmortal follower and no risks, many Wendy players will get bored after playing her for a couple months. Its kind of the same thing that happened with Wolfgang, who plays him now other than speedrunners or some people that want to 1shot things?

[Steorra]

19 minutes ago, kroban said:

I think the player tag is fine, but like be fair Klei, give it to Webber's spiders and Willow's Bernie too.

I would not argue with BERNIE! though it is strange to make it has "player" tag.

But I say no to spiders. They are already overpowered far more than current Wendy with Abi. I can't understand what reason to give spiders "player tag".

19 minutes ago, kroban said:

 @Jakepeng99

Okay now I don't know how to delete this from my phone. Yes it's obviously Jakepeng99 is OP, they need be nerf.

 

[kroban]

6 minutes ago, Steorra said:

I would not argue with BERNIE! though it is strange to make it has "player" tag.

But I say no to spiders.

Yeah to be fair in lore it makes more sense for Abigail since she is like a character ghost. The Webbers I see struggle a lot with the spiders tho, but I guess Klei will give them dodge or something different than a player tag

[Xplan]

12 minutes ago, kroban said:

If she becomes some easy mode character with an inmortal pet and potions that require no effort to get, yall will get bored after playing her for a couple months. Its kind of the same thing that happened with Wolfgang, who plays him now other than speedrunners or some people that just want to 1-shot things?

i dont agree.

DST is game focusing on better surviving more than combat.

No matter how Wendy strong or weak, interesting or boring(you might say), i'll keep playing her.

The combat system is not interesting for me. I enjoy farming and building factories and i would prefer to prepare more armors and more resources to deal with the GIants.

The problem is Abi can not make any progresses before the skill tree so she can no longer capable to assist me. And the mobs is being more and more threatening.

2 hours ago, Reiko24 said:

Yep. And video evidence isn’t enough for them from what I see. 

Walter now can defeat AFW without learning anything. maybe you should work hard on urging Klei to nerf Walter.

[RiceMilk]

Player tags are a simple way to address Abigail's survival abilities.

I certainly believe that designers have other ways to solve Abigail's survival problem. The player tag is not necessary, but the prerequisite for removing it is that it is really a bad method - I first need to know why the player tag is bad in order to believe that removing it will result in good results.

 

If those who oppose the player tag believe that Abigail doesn't need to improve her survival ability at all, then I am definitely against it.

 

From another perspective, Wendy is a pure combat character. I can accept some interesting features provided on the skill tree, but I cannot understand why combat characters should not receive combat enhancements on the skill tree, especially when it becomes increasingly difficult for her to solve new versions of enemies.

[SilverSpoon]

4 hours ago, Jakepeng99 said:

I already did. Many other people already did with video evidence. 

4 hours ago, Reiko24 said:

Yep. And video evidence isn’t enough for them from what I see. 

I verified can not just tank but also kill gigants which were in the "Blessed Sisturn III is OP" video, Bearger, Deerclops, Crystal Deerclops, and Ancient Fuelweaver with "no effort" by Woodie's "Treeguard Feller II" and present screenshot evidence(plz look my posting history.)

And I have taken a video evidence, but I'm lazy so really don't want to edit it. And If the "video evidence" is ever referenced again, please someone instead me point out Treeguard idle because I now need my post approved by a moderator,

[Reiko24]

50 minutes ago, Xplan said:

 

Walter now can defeat AFW without learning anything. maybe you should work hard on urging Klei to nerf Walter.

What? Maybe by using exploits.

Walter still uses much more skill with kiting, ammo switching and management in the right time than Wendy who just now has her immortal Abigail who can just tank fuelweaver.

 

DO NOT take exploits into consideration when talking about balance.

Skip to the part where he fights Fuelweaver without any cheese or exploits;

https://youtu.be/UHpuYfr0B-o?si=Kgenlgxc0wM9BezX

 

[Xplan]

5 minutes ago, Reiko24 said:

What? Maybe by using exploits.

Walter still uses much more skill with kiting, ammo switching and management in the right time than Wendy who just now has her immortal Abigail who can just tank fuelweaver.

 

DO NOT take exploits into consideration when talking about balance.

Skip to the part where he fights Fuelweaver without any cheese or exploits;

https://youtu.be/UHpuYfr0B-o?si=Kgenlgxc0wM9BezX

 

what a flexible standpoint

[yuntunhemudu]

I recently started a new save using a popular Wendy Skill Tree Mod and found that Abigail's fragility remains the biggest issue.

[dst_lover]

7 minutes ago, Xplan said:

what a flexible standpoint

what is it flexible about it ? 

what he said is just a fact

[blue fat]

I suggest nerfing the damage boost of Wendy.

[Xplan]

3 minutes ago, dst_lover said:

what is it flexible about it ? 

what he said is just a fact

"DO NOT take exploits into consideration when talking about balance."

what a gorgeous claim

Things he said is just meaningless fancy words.

the FACT is any Walter player can make good use of it.