Yes, Abi SHOULD be "immortal" and this enhanced Wendy's identity. (Survey for attitudes of Abi's survival)

[Steorra]

10 minutes ago, Chewabacca said:

Yeah, I did like that feeling.

Your feeling does matter. But not for everyone. You may start a survey for knowing how many people sharing same feeling with you.

[Chewabacca]

37 minutes ago, Steorra said:

Your feeling does matter. But not for everyone. You may start a survey for knowing how many people sharing same feeling with you.

I think the fact that this argument has been going on for as long as it has proves that quite a few people have the same feeling as me. Heck, I think the fact that this many people decided to play a videogame that bills itself as "challenging" and "uncompromising" supports me well enough.

[Steorra]

17 minutes ago, Chewabacca said:

I think the fact that this argument has been going on for as long as it has proves that quite a few people have the same feeling as me. Heck, I think the fact that this many people decided to play a videogame that bills itself as "challenging" and "uncompromising" supports me well enough.

There's a mod called as uncompromising. I have no intention to be offensive and this might be off topic. By I guess you might like this mod.

[thesooz9000]

43 minutes ago, Steorra said:

There's a mod called as uncompromising. I have no intention to be offensive and this might be off topic. By I guess you might like this mod.

There's a mod that makes Abigail invincible, You might just like it.

[Bumber64]

1 hour ago, Steorra said:

So you know the problem.

Not precisely. The video (you?) posted in another thread showed Webber using a lazy explorer and other items. There's some trickery going on beyond just 3 minutes of gathering spiders, and I don't know what it is. That undermines your claim that Webber can do toadstool easily, which was a major part of your argument for his spiders versus Abi, since his spiders aren't actually immortal and can't be resummoned if you fail. Bunnymen should work on any other fight that spiders/treeguards do. (What's the treeguard / nurse spider strategy for crab king, BTW? At least Abi can't drown.)

I also saw another video where Webber spends 90% of a CC fight running a spider marathon around the island instead of actually fighting, which was amusing. I think the video was more than an hour long, but I don't know if it was a single CC fight.

1 hour ago, Steorra said:

For sake of balance. Same reason to nerf cursed vex.

There's no need to say "many" because the survey already show it.

No, it's imbalance. What made you think 208% damage modify is "fine"? Is that because of Wolfgang?

How can you know where the current balance is if you're not using a major part of it? Player tag effectively doubles recovery from cure-all on most bosses, but if you aren't using cure-all then you won't notice that. You experience only double Abi survivability instead of quadruple and call it balanced.

If they weren't happy before, they wouldn't have been playing her enough to be upset she wasn't getting a good skill tree. It's just greed for more.

2.08x is only with beefalo, which I said should be fixed. 1.54x is the proper amount for needing to sacrifice butterflies. Or are we to kill butterflies just for fun?

[Xplan]

4 minutes ago, Bumber64 said:

Not precisely. The video (you?) posted in another thread showed Webber using a lazy explorer and other items. There's some trickery going on beyond just 3 minutes of gathering spiders, and I don't know what it is. That undermines your claim that Webber can do toadstool easily, which was a major part of your argument for his spiders versus Abi, since his spiders aren't actually immortal and can't be resummoned if you fail. Bunnymen should work on any other fight that spiders/treeguards do. (What's the treeguard / nurse spider strategy for crab king, BTW? At least Abi can't drown.)

I also saw another video where Webber spends 90% of a CC fight running a spider marathon around the island instead of actually fighting, which was amusing. I think the video was more than an hour long, but I don't know if it was a single CC fight.

How can you know where the current balance is if you're not using a major part of it? Player tag effectively doubles recovery from cure-all on most bosses, but if you aren't using cure-all then you won't notice that. You experience only double Abi survivability instead of quadruple and call it balanced.

If they weren't happy before, they wouldn't have been playing her enough to be upset she wasn't getting a good skill tree. It's just greed for more.

2.08x is only with beefalo, which I said should be fixed. 1.54x is the proper amount for needing to sacrifice butterflies. Or are we to kill butterflies just for fun?

let's give back abi her attack invincibility.

[Bumber64]

26 minutes ago, Xplan said:

let's give back abi her attack invincibility.

As long as she can be hit after attacking. The problem before was that gestalt Abi could kill DFly while Wendy just ran around. They nerfed it too much in response.

If Wendy is actively fighting the boss, then it's okay for gestalt Abi to avoid attacks because of lower DPS and risk to Wendy, which was the only nerf required.

Shadow Abi doesn't need extra survivability because she ends the fight faster when played well, but gestalt doesn't have that benefit.

And normal Abi is free, so you get what you pay for. (Klei said they wanted to improve early game survivability, but I don't think player tag is the best way. Just make sisturn boost max health until next death, which won't boost recovery.)

[cyjs]

Let me promote myself

[Steorra]

1 hour ago, Bumber64 said:

(What's the treeguard / nurse spider strategy for crab king, BTW? At least Abi can't drown.)

I could easily to search some videos for your question, but I think it would be meaningless.

1 hour ago, Bumber64 said:

I also saw another video where Webber spends 90% of a CC fight running a spider marathon around the island instead of actually fighting, which was amusing. I think the video was more than an hour long, but I don't know if it was a single CC fight.

And same for this. 1 hours seems more like skill issue (which under some of yours logic). But I guess the time consuming is meaningless for you, or for the current argument.

1 hour ago, Bumber64 said:

How can you know where the current balance is if you're not using a major part of it? Player tag effectively doubles recovery from cure-all on most bosses, but if you aren't using cure-all then you won't notice that. You experience only double Abi survivability instead of quadruple and call it balanced.

So, BERNIE!, Treeguard, Spiders, Abi with Cure-All, V.S armor bearger, have interest with these testing?

 

1 hour ago, Bumber64 said:

2.08x is only with beefalo, which I said should be fixed. 1.54x is the proper amount for needing to sacrifice butterflies. Or are we to kill butterflies just for fun?

beefalo has no problem if you ask for a honest voice from me. And same for 1.54. And same for Player Tag. Though I prefer 1200 HP far than Player Tag now, since that would makes more people be happier.

[Xplan]

59 minutes ago, Bumber64 said:

And normal Abi is free, so you get what you pay for. (Klei said they wanted to improve early game survivability, but I don't think player tag is the best way. Just make sisturn boost max health until next death, which won't boost recovery.)

i'm okay with this.  gestalt abi has no more survivability than the others

[IAmAFurrz]

3 hours ago, RussoDaFederal said:

Ngl I'm extremely disappointed at Wendy's fanbase. I had no idea the situation was this bad because I just play DST with my friends and I rarely watch videos about it, much less visit forums. And I'll probably vanish after this update is released, too. But right now maining Wendy feels like this:

yea... i NEVER knew it was so bad until this skill tree. the ENTITLEMENT of some of them to want something be given with no effort, as well as never stopping to think about overall design principles, instead going for a 'please wendy is designed for noobs' (NO one was designed for noobs, its just abi's strengths to deal with basic mobs is good enough to where they would get comfy and never want to learn to do anything, which is a failing of abi's accessibility and efficiency, but that aside she is very well designed)

[Yifei_]

3 minutes ago, IAmAFurrz said:

yea... i NEVER knew it was so bad until this skill tree. the ENTITLEMENT of some of them to want something be given with no effort, as well as never stopping to think about overall design principles, instead going for a 'please wendy is designed for noobs' (NO one was designed for noobs, its just abi's strengths to deal with basic mobs is good enough to where they would get comfy and never want to learn to do anything, which is a failing of abi's accessibility and efficiency, but that aside she is very well designed)

 

[Bumber64]

2 hours ago, Steorra said:

So, BERNIE!, Treeguard, Spiders, Abi with Cure-All, V.S armor bearger, have interest with these testing?

I think this would be equally meaningless for the current argument.

Clearly treeguards and spiders will suffer without planar damage, but how many extra resources should be thrown at a boss just to avoid fighting properly is subjective. The spiders won't die, but at what point should Woodie and Webber just solo the boss? Edit: The spiders will die after being sat on.

[Steorra]

19 minutes ago, Bumber64 said:

spiders will suffer without planar damage

Eh, just for reminder but no offensive, spider won't suffer it because they dealt smaller amounts of damage, which get almost no impact from planar entity tag.

21 minutes ago, Bumber64 said:

Edit: The spiders will die after being sat on

Yes they did if you do nothing, but simply spamming ice staff makes them become true immortal and kill the beager in 50 second. Not like abi.

[Bumber64]

21 minutes ago, Steorra said:

Yes they did if you do nothing, but simply spamming ice staff makes them become true immortal and kill the beager in 50 second. Not like abi.

Must be some technique, because I just tried it and he kept killing them occasionally right after they broke him out of the ice. Definitely not hold F to win, which just drains your sanity. Not helped by the fact ice staves don't autoswap into the hand.

[Mike23Ua]

Like I’ve said 100x before, Abigail is as much of a “Core Feature” to Wendy, as Dumbells are a Core Feature to Wolfgang or Willows Lighter & Bernie are a Core Feature to Willow.

I don’t think anyone is actually listening to me so I’ll go ahead and Explain, Willow Can only collect Embers IF She has here Lighter to suck them up with, Without Her Lighter: She has no Fire Mage Powers.

Willows Lighter, AND Bernie have a Durability Meter: They’ll break, you’ll need to fix, refuel or recraft them.

Without Willows Lighter & Bernie: WHAT are Willows “Core Features”?

My point Exactly: Wendy needs to be Nerfed.

And if I was in charge of nerfing her…

Spoiler

I’d make Abigail flowers grow from Gardens that were decorated with her new moveable graves.

The flowers growth rate can be speed up by pouring Ectoherbology potions onto it. This ties moving graves, GMBW, collecting Mourning Glory’s, RWYS Gardens & Ecthoherbology Potions all into growing Abigail’s Flowers.

The Flowers now have a usage durability that depletes over or spoils over time (maybe each time you let Abigail die?)

I see this as no different from Wolfgang having to Mine Resources for Dumbells, Wilson having to wait for his beard to grow out to use his Beard Hair Storage, Willow needing a Lighter and Bernie to be “Willow”

 

I really want to ask the Devs at Klei, Why does Wendy get to be AFK Simulator?