Notes on Wendy's Skill Tree - 646898 12/12/2024

[Kondr_]

Please let Vengeful Ghost perk let wendy and nearby ghosts do mapping(update map) as long as they are nearby wendy or wendy-ghost.

if it will be, also would be cool to temporary lay in reviving grave (with according perk) to do mapping and then return. still want ghostwalking as way scout and connect with far lands

even without any changes this skill tree is already very good!
and also appreciate be able to see dev thoughts. happy holidays

[Coski25]

Please don’t change Wendy’s grave skills I think they fit her character and they’re fun to use.

[WenericMember]

3 minutes ago, Coski25 said:

Please don’t change Wendy’s grave skills I think they fit her character and they’re fun to use.

I think they were more so they would expand on it, they saod theyre overall happy with the tree.

[Coski25]

3 minutes ago, WenericMember said:

I think they were more so they would expand on it, they saod theyre overall happy with the tree.

That’s good I’m liking Wendy’s skill tree with this update I don’t want it changed too much.

[arubaro]

6 hours ago, Jason said:

Would Wendy crawl out of a grave?

I think this is really funny and shouldn't be changed 

[SilverSpoon]

6 hours ago, Jason said:

But then we decided to make another big change. The level 3 and 4 Sistern skills were changed into a single one that lets you put Lune Tree Blossoms into it granting Abigail "player" status in the eyes of boss damage. This has several positive effects. It kind of gives Abigail double health (same as before) but only vs bosses, which is where the real need was. Also,  it is health that can be healed on site, unlike the previous buff. Again, this only affects boss fights and not against regular mobs. And it also offers Wendy a quest she can go on to gather said Lune Tree Blossoms. This has no art or fx for it yet, but these will come. This change brings the total skills down quite a bit, but with the same number of abilities. We've decided to let it be that way for now.

This is a really clever update. The cleverly is that you have to pay 3 skill tree points to get this benefit. This allows all the people who have complain about Abigail's vulnerability to get a decent defense, and allows all the people who were saying "Abigail is totally A-OK, buff makes her to be OP" to save 3 skill tree points by their own skill. And best of all, I'm so glad Wendy no longer have to give Abigail a 5 minute timeout.

[SilverSpoon]

6 hours ago, Jason said:

After some math and discussion, Gestalt Abigail's damage was increased some. She sits in between a bare Abigail and a Shadow infused Abigail now.

After testing, I found that Gestabby currently does 100 damage during the day, 150 damage at dusk, and 250 damage at night(also Vex adds an additional 1.1x). There have been some opinions that Gestabby is too weak compared to Shabby, but I think that values of this baff should be taken into consideration.

However, I found that Gestabby's "Attack At" command deals a only 40 damage at any time of day. And this damage doesn't seem to be affected by Vex either. It looks behavior what designers unintended.

[Hellwig1]

The skill tree is finally taking shape. But right now the balance is still a little bit off. I've been testing the skill tree for a while now, and here's what I think about the current version.

First, the new "blessed sisturn III" skill is a good idea. Abi needs something to survive better against bosses, and that's exactly what it is. What bothers me about it is that for whatever reason you need Lune Tree Blossom for it, which Wendy doesn't really have anything to do with. Which means you have to go out of your way to do so, and because those only last a few days you have to do it over and over again, which is tedious and annoying. Why not just use dark petals for this? That would even have some synergy with "grave beautification" and Team "spirit III" and would make those more appealing.

Another skill with a similar problem is “Shadow Sisterhood III”. The amount of animals you need in order to keep the skill up is kinda insane. I was hoping the "Mourning Glory I" (the revive butterfly skill) would solve that problem, but even after the resent buff, 2 mouning glory for about 8 seconds of buff duration is way too much. So maybe make reviving butterflies decently expensive or simply increase the duration for “Shadow Sisterhood III” or even make it a longer, fixed duration, so that you can use all kinds of critters and not only the ones that are stackable. I also thought about an additional recipe for butterflies, where you turn mouning glory and butter into several butterflies at ones. Right now it feels kinda bad to get butter drops from them.

Finally, we still have the problem that most elixirs are somewhat useless. I was hoping "Mouning Glory II" (the Wraith's Wreath thing) would at least make them useful for Wendy, if not for Abi. At the moment, I don't think there is any reason to use the Wraith's Wreath at all. As mentioned in the post, it should be a pure out of combat item. Nobody will sacrifice their head slot for it in combat. And for an out of combat item, even the healing from this is simply bad. Keep in mind that you already use 8 heal (from the spider gland) and -40 live (for the Telltale Heart) to craft the elixirs. So u really only get 12 heal for 1 mouning glory or 47 heal for 3 mouning glory as an out of combat heal. And everything else seems to be useless for Wendy besides the night vision (that's kinda cool). I don't think the double duration skill should work when used on Wendy (none of them even last for a day on Wendy anyways) and the elixirs should generally provide some good value out of combat. To be honest, I don't know what to do here exactly, but it would be nice to see some kind of use case for every elixir there is.

Of course, these are just my thoughts about how to make the skill tree a little bit more well-rounded. Overall, I like the direction in which the whole thing is developing. Keep up the good work and pls take your time if you need so. I wish you all a good break.

[Sikers]

8 hours ago, Jason said:

There has been a lot of discussion about the elixir use on players, how to make them better. There are 7 not including the alignment ones. Getting 7 great abilities for one skill is a lot. We do not think they all need to be equally impactful in terms of balance. At the moment the two combat elixirs are very dubiously useful and intentionally so. There are niche uses out there for them, but we agree they are in the D tier level. We would like to change them to something useful outside of combat, but again, they should be C or B tier at most to maintain balance. And they should also fit the theme of the elixir used, which is the real hard part. We're still working on figuring that part out.

I think one thing that gets overlooked in potion balance is: they are not like other consumables, to use them, you have to sacrifice head slot, which in my opinion is the most important slot in the game. Therefore instead of treating them just like consumables, they should be balanced more with  hats, clothes and armor in mind. Slightly cheaper healing salve is just not worth losing skill points and potential armor.

[Xplan]

2 hours ago, Sikers said:

I think one thing that gets overlooked in potion balance is: they are not like other consumables, to use them, you have to sacrifice head slot, which in my opinion is the most important slot in the game. Therefore instead of treating them just like consumables, they should be balanced more with  hats, clothes and armor in mind. Slightly cheaper healing salve is just not worth losing skill points and potential armor.

true. all these costs you a head slot and insight point. Still, it consumes your elixirs to bring some effect and has a time limitation. It's a really important one that can make Wendy more interesting. If Klei restricts the potions to have a better use, that would be wasting this design.

[CremeLover]

  

11 hours ago, Jason said:

The level 3 and 4 Sistern skills were changed into a single one that lets you put Lune Tree Blossoms into it granting Abigail "player" status in the eyes of boss damage.

That is massive, specially considering part of the skilltree straight up doubles her damage. Maybe is a bit too much, double damage and half the damage reduction, but as long as people are happy.

All I really wanted with her skill tree was a reduction of her gathering chores, hopefully alternative ways to gather her resource, some expansion on her gameplay and a bit of planar related to stand up to the new planar themed mobs.

But she got a huge dps increase , and really strong damage reduction to the point she's now a combat specialist dps queen... with more chores on top of the previous ones to achieve it.
Not what I was expecting, but I can't really complain seeing the hard work and very hard revamps Wendy has received ever since the beta started. Thank you for the hard work and the countless hours spent working and designing Wendy's tree. Looking forward to the finishing touches in January (And the new lovely skins)!

 

 

[Ridepod]

This seems to be the update that went back and revamped the appearance of Wendy's skill tree so I got to point it out: did you guys forget to add the background symbol for skills that add new crafts (unless the art doesn't work well with it)? This one:

unless that's no longer being done. These are the Wendy skills that should have them (and maybe Gravestones by Wendy and 2 after butterfly revival )

super minor but its been bugging me

[aoka404]

Mr. Jason, it's good to see you making some adjustments in the right direction today.

About Shadow Abigail, I think her design could use some work. For example, a recording item (such as a shadow candle) could be designed to accumulate Wendy's daily energy from fighting (including killing small animals) and allow Abigail to switch forms freely. There is an upper limit to this energy (preferably for at least a day). In this way, it can reduce the tedious operation when fighting the BOSS.

I hope you can see and consider my suggestion.

[aidankocherhans]

8 hours ago, Hellwig1 said:

First, the new "blessed sisturn III" skill is a good idea. Abi needs something to survive better against bosses, and that's exactly what it is. What bothers me about it is that for whatever reason you need Lune Tree Blossom for it, which Wendy doesn't really have anything to do with. Which means you have to go out of your way to do so, and because those only last a few days you have to do it over and over again, which is tedious and annoying. Why not just use dark petals for this? That would even have some synergy with "grave beautification" and Team "spirit III" and would make those more appealing.

50% damage resistance for Abigail is a big deal, it should be something that requires a bit of effort. Dark petals would be extremely easy to keep up with your other skills, and you don't need the buff all the time anyway. It shouldn't be too hard to get a stable source if you get a few butterflies from pearls island or the lunar island.

 

8 hours ago, Hellwig1 said:

Another skill with a similar problem is “Shadow Sisterhood III”. The amount of animals you need in order to keep the skill up is kinda insane. I was hoping the "Mourning Glory I" (the revive butterfly skill) would solve that problem, but even after the resent buff, 2 mouning glory for about 8 seconds of buff duration is way too much. So maybe make reviving butterflies decently expensive or simply increase the duration for “Shadow Sisterhood III” or even make it a longer, fixed duration, so that you can use all kinds of critters and not only the ones that are stackable. I also thought about an additional recipe for butterflies, where you turn mouning glory and butter into several butterflies at ones. Right now it feels kinda bad to get butter drops from them.

This skill is really strong already. Catching bees isn't hard for such a substantial damage boost, especially since it's planar now. You don't need 100% uptime on this boost for it to make a big impact 

5 hours ago, CremeLover said:

But she got a huge dps increase , and really strong damage reduction to the point she's now a combat specialist dps queen... with more chores on top of the previous ones to achieve it.

To be fair that's likely the way they need to go when buffing an already strong character, you can make her even stronger but at the cost of time and effort, or just choose other skills and hone your combat skill and efficiency instead.

[aireliq]

You guys are fire. Thank you for your work. Have a great holiday season!! <3

[Dr.Webber]

I have a suggestion have dark petals and Lune Tree Blossoms active Abigail’s respective alignment  forms when put in a Sisturn for a moon cycle if not reactivated within that time and have mourning glories be used in place of what Lune Tree Blossoms is currently being used for 

[directx]

This only increases the numerical value, and compared to Willow, Woodie, and Winona, it's still like a caveman. But I can somewhat accept it; at least a caveman is durable and combat-ready. I hope it can be made even better. Lastly, have a great holiday

[Lee lol]

16 hours ago, SilverSpoon said:

经过测试，我发现 Gestabby 目前在白天造成 100 点伤害，在黄昏时造成 150 点伤害，在夜间造成 250 点伤害（Vex 也额外增加了 1.1 倍）。有一些观点认为 Gestabby 与 Shabby 相比太弱了，但我认为应该考虑这个 baff 的值。

然而，我发现 Gestabby 的“攻击”命令在一天中的任何时间都只造成 40 点伤害。而且这种伤害似乎也没有受到 Vex 的影响。它看起来 行为 设计师 无意的。

Prior to this hotfix, Gestalt's attack command dealt 15-25-40 damage if you didn't use potions

[1007954611]

 

I like the new Sistern skill more (lune blossoms for player tag)

That's great

[Kondr_]

idea for affinity potions:

1) sleep resistance. mb + minor gestalts do not agro on you

2) at any sanity you see nightmares and can attack them. mb + they are peacefied

[EGD44]

Would be cool if they’d replace distilled vengeance with something more useful. Maybe a potion that causes Abigail’s light to give off a chilling aura that keeps players standing near cool in summer. It’s not too op since it’s only useful at certain times but not completely useless. And it’s fitting to Wendy/Abigails character theme since chilling air is something commonly associated with the presence of ghosts. 
 

 Another thought is if they introduced a skill that allowed the use of two potions simultaneously. Then the shield potions would actually be worth making since they could be used with one of the better potions. But some might think that to be op. Just an idea 

[aoka404]

There is another problem that has not been solved.

Wendy has to deal with Shadow monsters on her own, with 0.75 times her attack power.

[seven-rain]

Regarding Abigail's morphological change constraints, will the current constraints be too severe? If Vicky Barton is present in the game, she can keep the full moon longtime in the game, which will prevent Abigail from ever becoming a shadow

[hyoton123]

I'd think moonstorms, are more annoying, tbh, but I don't think either are real problems.

5 hours ago, aoka404 said:

There is another problem that has not been solved.

Wendy has to deal with Shadow monsters on her own, with 0.75 times her attack power.

 

So what is the problem here?

[gaymime]

5 hours ago, aoka404 said:

There is another problem that has not been solved.

Wendy has to deal with Shadow monsters on her own, with 0.75 times her attack power.

identical to wes. seems fair to me.