Stupid question... But what does everyone actually want with wendy

[HowlVoid]

20 minutes ago, Cassielu said:

I think this is indeed an issue about Refreshed Wendy, but blame the Pipispook rather than the player - it's a minigame separate from Don't Starve's main game cycle.

Just as most Wolfgang players don't like gym minigame, if players enjoy fighting with Abigail, they're less likely to enjoy help Pipispook.

I'm not blaming anyone, it's all theoretical I have no basis on any real data besides what one person said.

I don't even know if it's true just that I can correlate a similar situation in another game and drawing parallels. 

If true, it's an area the developers can look at to fix but I'm just shocked that this is the first time I'm hearing of it and it seems plausible lol

[cyjs]

3 minutes ago, Fitzee said:

One of my suggestions would be making non-stackable mobs give more time, personally; do you think it would be an issue?

I think we should start by murdering small animals, and then continue to consume Mourning Glory or Abigail's blood to maintain this state.

This is a fair price to pay for increased damage. Continuously killing small animals makes me think that the Wendy sisters are cruel sadists.

[Arcwell]

5 minutes ago, HowlVoid said:

People aren't complaining about the pipspooks though, not from what ive seen, they're complaining that abi is wet tissue paper. 

People go as far as calling the pipspook skills unrelated? 

Which is my point. And I'm wondering if that's the root of the problem, and one I've ONLY now just found out.

Your point is fair, I just wasn't talking about whether the mechanic itself is arbitrary. Maybe it is. I'm just wondering if people arnt interacting with it.

Eh.... could be. I'm not sure honestly. It's hard to evaluate because pipspook elixirs are tied to resource cost.

Like, even before skill trees Abby could tank Fuelweaver with enough spectral cure-alls, but whether or not that's worth it is debatable. My understanding is that Abigail's survivability hasn't really changed at all outside of the attack command (which seems great for AG in particular), so I would imagine this premise still holds.

[HowlVoid]

18 minutes ago, Lee lol said:

Didn't you say that? If we like to buy skins for Wendy, it doesn't mean that we like to let Abigal be the boss alone, nor does it mean that we can't use the potion. I see that you have said similar things many times, saying everywhere that Wendy players want Abigail to solo, boss, please don't distort other people's intentions at will，This will only aggravate the chaos here.

The thing about the potions I didn't say. It was pure speculation.

The thing about people wanting Abigail to solo bosses one person did furiously argue that they wanted Abigail to be a pokemon lol. I didn't say it was a general consensus that was wide spread though, only that and my exact wording is, "some people" want that.

The thing about the skins is true though, would you like me to pull out exact comments? I have read people say that what they first drawn to was Wendys beauty, and others say that they have collected many skins and the skill tree devalues their purchases or something. Though i did fly close to the sun on that one so I do apologize for trying to correlate it to... skill issue.  

[Evelo]

I'm mad at everyone now. Just release the skillset as is.

Beggars can't be choosers. / Don't bite the hand that feeds you. / Don't look a gift horse in the mouth.

[Catuna_]

15 minutes ago, Fitzee said:

One of my suggestions would be making non-stackable mobs give more time, personally; do you think it would be an issue?

imo non-stackable mobs offer enough of a duration as is, but if they did provide enough time what incentive is there to catch stackable critters or make butterflies?

[Arcwell]

1 minute ago, Catuna_ said:

imo non-stackable mobs offer enough of a duration as is, but if they did provide enough time what incentive is there to catch stackable critters or make butterflies?

Inventory size if nothing else.

Currently a single stack of 20 butterflies gives, well, 20 times the duration of a single rabbit.

EDIT: You'd also save time on murder animations

[Koomin]

-"We need Abigail to be able to survive boss fights" -> Klei makes an Abigail form specifically for surviving boss fights that maintains her dps, and gives her planar defense, easily living way longer than normal Abigail
-"What we actually need is to be able to control where Abigail goes to help her dodge" -> Klei gives the ability to command her yourself
-"We need Wendy to be able to be able to do more damage"-> Klei makes an Abigail form that lets Wendy do Wolfgang dps
-"Oh also we don't want the bug with Wendy doing way too high damage on a beefalo that removes her downside even though it's clearly not intended" - Klei doesn't remove it
"-We need Wendy to have some bonuses that do not need Abigail" -> Klei let's the potions be used on Wendy for fun new bonuses
-"We need Abigail to have some extra fun uses for flavor" -> Klei gives Abigail the ability to haunt stuff in the world for cool effects
"-Wendy takes too much time and effort doing her quests and storing the resources" -> Klei gives bonuses to the gather rate of pipspooks and a thing to carry everything
-"We need some fun flavorful perks even if they are not super strong" -> Klei gives ability to move and create graves and revive from them

-"You need to actually try fighting the bosses for yourself she is actually really weak" -> people post videos of beating all the bosses with Abigail with simple strategies

Everyone on the forum "Why is Klei not listening to our feedback.  Wendy's skill tree is horrible and they gave her nothing she needed.  They should redo the whole thing."
It is pretty clear at this point that the problem here is that they really wanted to get all this stuff but overpowered. 

[aidankocherhans]

1 hour ago, Lee Sy said:

Pure look things, not a pretty wreath with some useless effects.

And I don't like elixirs system as well as Wigfrid's song. My partners and I never use them intentionally, it's kind of waste slots.

I don't understand what you mean, it sounds like a contradiction you said.

Why do you want stuff in the skill tree if you don't even want to use what she already has?

2 hours ago, Tranoze said:

So walking around map looking for bee hives doesnt count? Walking around looking for graves doesnt count? Beehive just naturally spawn at where you are and have 20 bees ready for you? Cuz as far as i know each hive only have 6 bees.

Bees are everywhere. Graves are in a predictable biome. You have to explore some of the world before you can accomplish anything in this game. What on earth are you talking about

[Xplan]

5 minutes ago, Koomin said:

"Oh also we don't want the bug with Wendy doing way too high damage on a beefalo that removes her downside removed even though it's clearly not intended" - Klei doesn't remove it

 That's not a bug; anyone can have a beefalo and do the same damage. It's a heaven-made match that makes beefalo so much meaningful and has already become part of the Wendy. Pick one:

1. Wendy should have the right to make good use of beefalo. 
2. Wendy is not strong at all cause a majority part of her power comes with beefalo. 

[aidankocherhans]

1 hour ago, HowlVoid said:

I'm confused, it doesn't take any hoop jumping to turn on the fling-o and pick up a torch?

Do people not know you can just punch a beehive to get the bees out?

[Koomin]

1 minute ago, Xplan said:

 That's not a bug; anyone can have a beefalo and do the same damage. It's a heaven-made match that makes beefalo so much meaningful and has already become part of the Wendy. Pick one:

1. Wendy should have the right to make good use of beefalo. 
2. Wendy is not strong at all cause a majority part of her power comes with beefalo. 

It is literally a bug.

Abigail's flower buff increases Wendy's damage by 40% specifically.  When she is on a beefalo, the game counts it as "Wendy" attacking for this advantage.

Wendy's downside is that she does 75% damage.  When she is on a beefalo, the game does not count it as "Wendy" attacking for this disadvantage. 

Combining these she does over 50% extra damage.

It is absolutely a bug.  She is being counted as both herself and not herself for no reason at all. She would not be weak without it.  She can do more damage than Wolfgang as-is while having so many other useful abilities and bonuses.

Other characters also cannot do the same damage on a beefalo at all, I'm not sure where you came up with that.  It specifically works that way with Wendy's vex bonus. 

This is exactly my point though, thank you - anything that makes Wendy ridiculously strong even if it is a bug is "so meaningful and a part of Wendy", and anything that is not overpowered is worthless and should be removed.

[Siren11]

3 minutes ago, Koomin said:

Other characters also cannot do the same damage on a beefalo at all, I'm not sure where you came up with that.  It specifically works that way with Wendy's vex bonus. 

It’s not just Wendy. Warly and Willow (I believe) have damage buffs that work the same way, and Wolfgang’s Leg Day skill works while mounted. I’m not even sure it’s really a bug.

But either way, Beefalo are difficult to deal with and entirely optional. Nerfing them would only be frustrating for the people who enjoy Beefalo taming, and it wouldn’t change anything for the people who dislike it.

[Xplan]

Of course it is PLAYER that cause the damage. If PLAYER attacks child beefalo while riding, he will get hit by her own beefalo when he gets off.

 Wendy has never been stronger than Wolfgang. Because this association is actually a glass cannon when facing mobs that has aoe and knockbacks. 

But i would agree to nerf its damage and boost the defense.

Maybe you can take a look at my idea about the elixirs.

16 minutes ago, Koomin said:

It is literally a bug.

Abigail's flower buff increases Wendy's damage by 40% specifically.  When she is on a beefalo, the game counts it as "Wendy" attacking for this advantage.

Wendy's downside is that she does 75% damage.  When she is on a beefalo, the game does not count it as "Wendy" attacking for this disadvantage. 

Combining these she does over 50% extra damage.

It is absolutely a bug.  She is being counted as both herself and not herself for no reason at all. She would not be weak without it.  She can do more damage than Wolfgang as-is while having so many other useful abilities and bonuses.

Other characters also cannot do the same damage on a beefalo at all, I'm not sure where you came up with that.  It specifically works that way with Wendy's vex bonus. 

This is exactly my point though, thank you - anything that makes Wendy ridiculously strong even if it is a bug is "so meaningful and a part of Wendy", and anything that is not overpowered is worthless and should be removed.

[RexySeven]

35 minutes ago, Koomin said:

-"We need Abigail to be able to survive boss fights" -> Klei makes an Abigail form specifically for surviving boss fights that maintains her dps, and gives her planar defense, easily living way longer than normal Abigail
-"What we actually need is to be able to control where Abigail goes to help her dodge" -> Klei gives the ability to command her yourself
-"We need Wendy to be able to be able to do more damage"-> Klei makes an Abigail form that lets Wendy do Wolfgang dps
-"Oh also we don't want the bug with Wendy doing way too high damage on a beefalo that removes her downside even though it's clearly not intended" - Klei doesn't remove it
"-We need Wendy to have some bonuses that do not need Abigail" -> Klei let's the potions be used on Wendy for fun new bonuses
-"We need Abigail to have some extra fun uses for flavor" -> Klei gives Abigail the ability to haunt stuff in the world for cool effects
"-Wendy takes too much time and effort doing her quests and storing the resources" -> Klei gives bonuses to the gather rate of pipspooks and a thing to carry everything
-"We need some fun flavorful perks even if they are not super strong" -> Klei gives ability to move and create graves and revive from them

-"You need to actually try fighting the bosses for yourself she is actually really weak" -> people post videos of beating all the bosses with Abigail with simple strategies

Everyone on the forum "Why is Klei not listening to our feedback.  Wendy's skill tree is horrible and they gave her nothing she needed.  They should redo the whole thing."
It is pretty clear at this point that the problem here is that they really wanted to get all this stuff but overpowered. 

I know it's crazy; it's like Wendy's fanbase doesn't even know what they want at this point and just suggest buffs for the sake of buffs or suggesting to bloat her kit with over the top abilities that only sound good on paper. 
This is ridiculous at this point.

It's either she have the BEST skill tree ever that eclipses other characters in terms of depth and abilities or riot because anything less than that is not an option.

[WenericMember]

3 minutes ago, RexySeven said:

I know it's crazy; it's like Wendy's fanbase doesn't even know what they want at this point and just suggest buffs for the sake of buffs or suggesting to bloat her kit with over the top abilities that only sound good on paper. 
This is ridiculous at this point.

It's either she have the BEST skill tree ever that eclipses other characters in terms of depth and abilities or riot because anything less than that is not an option.

If the tree gets properly smoothed over in terms of nalancenshe does have the best tree imo.

@HowlVoid @Tranoze

Poll is up. Pls vote.

[RexySeven]

1 minute ago, WenericMember said:

If the tree gets properly smoothed over in terms of nalancenshe does have the best tree imo.

Veruca Salt - "I WANT IT NOW!" (Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory)

[WenericMember]

Just now, RexySeven said:

Veruca Salt - "I WANT IT NOW!" (Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory)

Lol kinda yeah. Its hard because the skills that arent in the best state are some of the trees most important skills, and regardless were nearly out of beta time.

[RexySeven]

1 minute ago, WenericMember said:

Lol kinda yeah. Its hard because the skills that arent in the best state are some of the trees most important skills, and regardless were nearly out of beta time.

Her skill trees can be easily tweaked balance-vise in the future.

[WenericMember]

4 minutes ago, RexySeven said:

Her skill trees can be easily tweaked balance-vise in the future.

True, Id just fear what might happen in the time between.

[link6566]

It's better to develop some truly useful skills than to work on too many useless skills that are complicated to operate. The synthesis of flower petals and the synthesis of butterflies have always been complicated and useless.

[Tranoze]

13 minutes ago, RexySeven said:

easily tweaked balance

Wilson main has been asking for torch tree tweak for years and... you see.
So we prefer things to go right before live as klei rarely tweak them.

[Koomin]

41 minutes ago, Xplan said:

Of course it is PLAYER that cause the damage. If PLAYER attacks child beefalo while riding, he will get hit by her own beefalo when he gets off.

 Wendy has never been stronger than Wolfgang. Because this association is actually a glass cannon when facing mobs that has aoe and knockbacks. 

But i would agree to nerf its damage and boost the defense.

Maybe you can take a look at my idea about the elixirs.

If it is the player that caused the damage then the player should get the advantages of the player and also the disadvantages of the player.  It shouldn't be counted as the player causing the damage only when it helps her.  She should get both the 40% extra damage and the 25% less damage, not just the extra.

I looked at your post - making the potions prevent knockback makes sense and is a cool way to make Wendy a beefalo specialist if the beefalo damage bug is fixed in exchange, I agree.  Just giving extra things for nothing in exchange though and making beefalo Wendy even more ridiculous would not make sense though.

[RexySeven]

13 minutes ago, Tranoze said:

Wilson main has been asking for torch tree tweak for years and... you see.
So we prefer things to go right before live as klei rarely tweak them.

It's been a year and Wilson mains still can't comprehend that their character's entire gimmick is that he's plain beginner-friendly character and was intended by devs to be like that from the very beginning.

[YuRinshue]

3 hours ago, Tarnishedmax said:

I dont think you have tested or played this at all, why do you say 1-4 minutes? i took less than 2 minutes on both and less than 20 seconds on varg... the entire game is not about fighting bosses, you do stuff on the mean time, this buff is worth as it increases her damage up to 100 per hit or 50 to planar entities, normal abby only does around 20 something to planar stuff if i recall correctly, also you dont even need to take advantage of that buff because the elixirs themselves carry all the damage, and the elixirs are absurdly cheap, im genuinely dumbfounded by your comment, do you ever like play other characters and maybe realize every character has their own prep and quirks they have to do???? wdym time invested on the boss???? nets costs 1 rope and 2 sils and 1 stick, capturing 20 butterflies (or making them yourself with mourning glories) takes nothing, you can also capture them and keep them on your inventory for when you need to, you can also just not use 20 because 20 is overkill with the duration of the buff, idk you kinda just dont make sense at all

I think there seems to be some understanding issues between the communication. This has led to a lot of meaningless communication.Let's talk about my thoughts on this skill tree.Firstly, I believe there is a problem with it. The core issue is that the skill tree does not do everything thoroughly, and every direction that tries to make the skill tree interesting always leaves behind some uncomfortable parts, resulting in a large part of the content in the skill tree feeling "perfunctory" and only a very small part feeling interesting. As a result, for Wendy before the skill tree, the skill tree did not completely solve any problems.

 

Commanding Abigail is definitely considered the best branch by everyone, but the fixed movements of synchronizing 4.5s CD and twisting make it always a bit uncomfortable to use. Many of the command effects inside are related to combat, but due to issues with cooldowns, fixed actions, and various practical uses, the help that players can provide for combat through this series of skill branches is far less than allowing Abigail to stick closely to Wendy. This makes many players feel that the designer is too fixated on retaining the less fun parts, but is unwilling to optimize this branch more smoothly, and must make players "dance with shackles

 

Then there is the flower wreath branch, which should have been a very creative branch, but the designer made the effect of drinking medicine too boring in order to "limit power"

Firstly, all potions require wearing a flower wreath to take effect, and removing the wreath will render them ineffective. I think this design is very rudimentary and seems like it was made by someone who did not personally experience the game.Because with minor modifications, this skill can be made slightly more aesthetically pleasing. For example, wearing a flower wreath for Abigail and giving her medicine can partially benefit a small group of teammates.

 

Then there is the part about the effectiveness of the medication, which I feel feels very 'overcorrected'.

Like an accelerator, I don't understand why the function of returning to basic acceleration requires deceleration to take effect.

There are also two types of shield potions, a one-time 50 HP upper limit shield, full of an inexplicable feeling.

Returning blood medicine, one requires shedding blood to make, while the other is better to make a ointment in the same amount of time. It's not that they can't be used, it's just that they have almost no unique meaning of their own. There are too many ways to restore health in this game. A healing medicine that requires wearing a hat to use has no more interesting effect than other medicines. Overall, I find it difficult to feel the designer's hard work from this branch.

 

Next are the pharmaceutical branch and the help ghost branch that are paired with the flower wreath. Why is this branch unsatisfactory for helping ghosts gain more mourning glory? Because the designer used the most insincere way to enhance a very boring content - increasing production. This is like a designer knowing that something is boring, but the designer doesn't want it to be interesting, but rather to make you receive rewards faster.

The same goes for pharmaceuticals. The effects of many potions are mediocre, and there may be 2-3 potions that do not have any necessity of their own. At this point, the designer did not decide to make the old potion very useful, nor did they decide to add interesting new potions, nor did they want the potion to run two at the same time (only two crack stage potions with only numerical values were reluctantly added after being questioned, and the rest remained the same)These two factors have led to the potion system being a bloated and deformed system, with its meaning only being cheap, many, very cheap. Not fun, not interesting, and uncomfortable to use, just filling the void in content with a huge quantity. So much so that every piece of content built on this foundation appears very unhappy.

 

You can refer to the skill trees of Vila and Votox here. Vila and Votox's skill trees make their abilities rich and interesting by allowing embers/souls to do more things. Instead of simply increasing their efficiency in obtaining ashes/souls. I hope you can understand the meaning of this paragraph, it's very important.Next is Abigail's Moon and Shadow Branch.The moon branch was the most special branch before, as it solved Abigail's problem of being too fragile and changed her positioning.But the latest update makes her not only fragile, but possibly even more fragile than before in this branch (not mentioned in the update log, they added 1 second of "daze time" to Abigail in the Moon branch, which will be enabled after each attack). At the same time, it is almost without considering rationality, deleting her damage in half. Only one was left that would not be directly killed, and then Abigail could only be filled with the "bad foundation" mentioned earlier - a bunch of potions.

 

Why is the Shadow Branch a very offensive branch? Because this branch is just like what was mentioned before about the potion system, they just doubled the value, which doesn't make people feel that the designer is thinking about how to make the game more interesting for players. Because Abigail never needs more harm, what she needs is always to survive. Turning Wendy into a troublesome version of Wolfgang won't make anyone happy.

 

At the same time, neither of these two minutes helped address the issue of 'Abigail cannot attack most Shadow Creatures', which is a game with many Shadow Creatures that actively appear and Abigail does not attack.

 

As for the remaining branches after death, there are injuries, tombstone branches, urn branches, resurrected butterfly branches, and altar (meat statue) branches. These things are really confusing, you know, many of them can become interesting just by thinking a little more, but they just can't do it.For exampleAfter death, the branch of the ghost that causes damage can be added to increase its movement speed over time, allowing the deceased player to return to their teammates faster.Various petals can be placed in the urn of ashes to provide different benefits.The Resurrection Butterfly is built on the foundation of endless mourning and glory, and then used to activate the repulsive content of the Shadow Branch. So the emergence of this branch is unsatisfactory.The altar branch only needs to be slightly added, allowing resurrected players to choose an item from the deceased's body and have a little ghost bring it back for them. But they only made a replica of a meat statue, which is repulsive.In summary, the reason why so many people dislike the current Wendy Skill Tree is because the designers did not pay much attention to the design of the foundation (mourning glory), only increasing the amount of acquisition rather than useful use. Set numerous restrictions on each creative feature, fearing that players may be interested in continuing to play.

 

I translated it using a translation software, and this text may be a bit long and some of the words may not be well polished, which may cause comprehension issues. I am very sorry for this. If you have any questions about any part, you can let me know first, and then we can try to communicate properly. By the way, in the bilibili where I am located, the Klei official account has an official statement stating that "Klei Forum supports Chinese communication". Therefore, I think if you are willing, you can also use Chinese to communicate with each other. After all, I still need to use translation software, so if there are any unclear areas, I still need to ask you. It is also more convenient for me to find the problem in Chinese.