Notes on Wendy's changes for patch 644439 (2024-11-29)

[Jason]

Full patch notes

Hi everyone,

Previously we'd said we were going to remove the current Floral Shroud and replace it with one that lets Abigail benefit from Wendy's head armor instead. This put Wendy into more of the glass cannon playstyle like Wanda, and we didn't think that was the style Wendy players were looking for. So for the moment, that skill and it's partner have been removed.

We've added a new elixir that helps get Abigail back on her feet during combat, in that it puts her at max level, so you can heal her and level her and have her back at full quite quickly. This combined with Command skills are tools intended to help players in boss fights where Abigail has trouble. Currently we know the Command skills are not as easy to use as we'd like. We are still working to improve those yet.

There was some overlap with how Unsummon and Escape commands operated, so an attempt to differentiate them has been to made. It's duration is shorter, it makes creatures targeting Abigail drop her as a target and she becomes immune to damage but does not attack herself for that short time. We'll see if players find use from this, but we ourselves are still exploring other ideas.

Gestalt Abigail is certainly designed with boss fighting in mind, but it's accessed by having already gone through several bosses, so we want to make sure the pre rift help is viable.

Her alignment Elixirs were made to work in parallel to the previous Elixirs so there is no competition of use.

We would like to increase the uses of Mourning Glory outside of Elixirs and have some ideas for that, but they are not present in this patch.

During yesterdays live stream, we showed off a new skill called Extra Yield that provided Wendy with a second elixir when she crafted them. We have toned it down a little since the stream to be a chance at more Elixirs instead of a flat extra one each time. 

An Elixir container has been added that has 8 slots. With the new Elixir, there are now 9. We will update the container to hold at least one of each elixir before the update would go fully live. There's just always a chance we make more Elixirs, so we'll hold off on that till were more final.

What we plan to do next: Increase ways to use Mourning Glory, increase utility of Graves, Improve usability of the Team Spirit skills, catch up on bugs in the tracker.

[Evelo]

Nice stuff over all. Looking forward to what yall cook up.

But regarding the Elixir Container, that seems like a rather important thing to add and lock behind a skill so I have to ask, (I know i'm repeating myself, sorry I just think it's important) why lock some important items or abilities behind skills rather than give them to the character baseline then enhance through skills? (ie Willow's Ember Spells, Wortox's Soul Jar, Woby badges, Winona structure pickup, Wendy Picnic Casket, Wigfrid canister, etc.)

[WenericMember]

17 minutes ago, Jason said:

There was some overlap with how Unsummon and Escape commands operated, so an attempt to differentiate them has been to made. It's duration is shorter, it makes creatures targeting Abigail drop her as a target and she becomes immune to damage but does not attack herself for that short time. We'll see if players find use from this, but we ourselves are still exploring other ideas.

To make the new commands more usable, Maybe change it so that Wendy can move, but not attack, during the command animation? Currently all Abigail commands lock you into a stationary ~1 second animation, which makes it rather cumbersome to use while kiting.

That would give it significant benefit over the unsummon skills.

Other than that, the listed future changes are just what the tree needs to make it perfect, looking forward to it.

[yuntunhemudu]

Perhaps Mourning Glory can be used to dispel the Accursed Trinket? Regard Mourning Glory as a spiritual tool that can dispel curses.

[renamoe]

Hi Jason,

Thank you for sharing your thoughts and providing clarity on the development team's ideas regarding Wendy's skill tree changes. I also really appreciate the stream where you and the team engaged with us players—it's great to have that level of interaction. It would be wonderful if these streams could become more regular before the live update hits; I really enjoy them!

I'm also very glad that one of my posts in this beta forum was noticed and replied to by you. It's reassuring to know that Klei truly listens to the community. While the skill tree may not be perfect yet, I’m grateful for your openness to feedback and excited to see what’s coming next.

Thank you again—I truly feel warm and thankful for all of your efforts. Wishing you a great weekend! I hope all three characters receive well-balanced, unique, and personalized skill trees in the final update.

Love you, Klei team!

[Mike23Ua]

Wait what do you mean by increase ways to use mourning glory’s? You mean like outside of Elixers potions right?

So something more like Wortox Souls or Willows Embers?

If so that’s Interesting..  

[NotGabriel]

I can understand the concern behind the petal shroud’s removal, but it really had a lot of fun potential and it’s disappointing to not see it hit testing. On the note of worries about Wendy being a glass cannon, there’s a lot of ways players could adapt to those situations, whether that’s hiring followers to hold aggro, using the Bigspooks, using a Beefalo (of which experienced Wendy players use already)

The concept of Wendy voluntarily making herself vulnerable to protect Abigail is so in character for her I feel

[mima_]

1 minute ago, NotGabriel said:

there’s a lot of ways players could adapt to those situations

i think the concern was not about how player deal with it . but more like not thematically correct portraying wendy as glass cannon. she is not a combat characters i believe she is already vulnerable weak girl that get into constant to be with her dead sister again.

[usagiP]

The haunting is quite interesting~！I hope there is a elixir that can increase Abigail's chances of successfully triggering haunting events. If possible, it would also be nice to add a few haunting events that are exclusive to Abigail.

This will be a lot of fun, but of course, Klei may has something more fun in the future？I step aside~:3

[yuntunhemudu]

37 minutes ago, yuntunhemudu said:

Perhaps Mourning Glory can be used to dispel the Accursed Trinket? Regard Mourning Glory as a spiritual tool that can dispel curses.

Currently, no character can handle Powder Monkey and Accursed Trinket well, which can serve as Wendy's unique abilities. Perhaps in the future, more content about curses can be added.

[NotGabriel]

21 minutes ago, mima_ said:

i think the concern was not about how player deal with it . but more like not thematically correct portraying wendy as glass cannon. she is not a combat characters i believe she is already vulnerable weak girl that get into constant to be with her dead sister again.

As I said, I think Wendy putting herself in harm’s way to protect Abigail makes perfect sense thematically.

[Evelo]

9 minutes ago, usagiP said:

The haunting is quite interesting~！I hope there is a elixir that can increase Abigail's chances of successfully triggering haunting events.

I believe it is already increased baseline according to the latest stream. (Though I could be very wrong)

[WenericMember]

5 minutes ago, Evelo said:

I believe it is already increased baseline according to the latest stream. (Though I could be very wrong)

I believe they said they'd consider it, I don't know if they've or will implement it.

I hope they do just bc its QOL - A dead person doesn't have anything better to do than haunt, but someone alive very much does.

45 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Wait what do you mean by increase ways to use mourning glory’s? You mean like outside of Elixers potions right?

So something more like Wortox Souls or Willows Embers?

If so that’s Interesting..  

If Graves get some good utility, that combined with Haunt & whatever they choose to do with mourning Glory, Wendy will be in a good spot utility wise I think.

She won't be the best at it, but it'll be on par with modern survivors.

[1007954611]

6 minutes ago, NotGabriel said:

正如我所说，我认为温蒂为了保护阿比盖尔而将自己置于危险之中，这在主题上非常有意义。

t's suggested to give Wendy herself a skill to attract hatred, similar to Bernie's. For example, something like a little girl's shout or provocative actions like throwing stones. adding a skill that attracts hatred without occupying public CDs can improve fault tolerance

In the boss battle, force the hatred on Abigail to Wendy, and players can use skills that attract hatred and team spirit to pull the boss

Although the core issue has not been resolved yet: there is not much improvement when facing bosses with AOE,

But it has gone further, at least in multiplayer mode, Wendy has a new positioning as a tank to protect everyone

建议给温蒂自身一个类似于伯尼的吸引仇恨的技能，比如大喊大叫或者丢石头的动作
在boss战中强制将阿比盖尔身上的仇恨强制给温蒂，玩家可以利用吸引仇恨和团队精神中的技能拉扯boss
虽然依旧没有解决核心问题：对战拥有aoe的boss时没有太多提升，
但已经更进一步了，起码在多人联机温蒂有了一个新定位，自身作为坦克来保护大家

[Picklesaurus]

 

4 hours ago, Shining Galaxy said:

Can we allow Abigail to enjoy the same effect of taking half damage from the BOSS as the player? The value of Ghostly Elixir for Abigail to quickly level up after death is not significant. It might be better to avoid Abigail's death during the boss fight as much as possible. She is not Maxwell's shadow servant, but rather Wendy's own sister. Letting Abigail benefit from Wendy's armor is a good idea. Perhaps we could create unique spectral armor for Abigail instead of transferring damage between the two sisters.

She does not need it, Gestalt abigail is soloing bosses. I just used Gestalt Abigail to kill Deerclops, Bearger, Nightmare Werepig and Lunar Warg. I didn't attack them, lunar Abigail killed them alone, I only used Nightshade potion (and one healing potion for lunar warg) and told abigail to use the escape command sometimes.

 

4 hours ago, Jason said:

There was some overlap with how Unsummon and Escape commands operated, so an attempt to differentiate them has been to made. It's duration is shorter, it makes creatures targeting Abigail drop her as a target and she becomes immune to damage but does not attack herself for that short time. We'll see if players find use from this, but we ourselves are still exploring other ideas.

Yes, the escape command is really usefull, way more than you guys probably imagine, it helps Gestalt Abigail become extremely "tanky" - by tanky I mean between her kiting attacks, imunity during her on attacks and the player giving her the escape/imunity command she becomes extremely hard to kill, Im bad at using command wheel and managed to help Gestalt Abigail dodged enough attacks so that she could solo bosses on a first try, I prefer commanding her this way over having to share my armor with abigail.

[WenericMember]

4 minutes ago, 1007954611 said:

t's suggested to give Wendy herself a skill to attract hatred, similar to Bernie's. For example, something like a little girl's shout or provocative actions like throwing stones. adding a skill that attracts hatred without occupying public CDs can improve fault tolerance

In the boss battle, force the hatred on Abigail to Wendy, and players can use skills that attract hatred and team spirit to pull the boss

Although the core issue has not been resolved yet: there is not much improvement when facing bosses with AOE,

But it has gone further, at least in multiplayer mode, Wendy has a new positioning as a tank to protect everyone

建议给温蒂自身一个类似于伯尼的吸引仇恨的技能，比如大喊大叫或者丢石头的动作
在boss战中强制将阿比盖尔身上的仇恨强制给温蒂，玩家可以利用吸引仇恨和团队精神中的技能拉扯boss
虽然依旧没有解决核心问题：对战拥有aoe的boss时没有太多提升，
但已经更进一步了，起码在多人联机温蒂有了一个新定位，自身作为坦克来保护大家

I think they should be trying to make Wendy more unique from Willow, not more similar.

[yuntunhemudu]

2 minutes ago, Picklesaurus said:

I just used Gestalt Abigail to kill Deerclops, Bearger, Nightmare Werepig and Lunar Warg.

wow

[aidankocherhans]

What does glass cannon mean in this context?

[1007954611]

 

5 minutes ago, WenericMember said:

我认为他们应该努力让 Wendy 与 Willow 更独特，而不是更相似。

willow自身是做不到吸引仇恨的，这是伯尼的作用。wendy如果可以吸引仇恨那么她最大优势是可以走位，某种方面可以说和willow是相反的模式，我觉得并没有一模一样

Willow himself cannot attract hatred, this is Bernie's role. If Wendy can attract hatred, her biggest advantage is that she can walk. In some ways, it is the opposite model to Willow. I don't think it is the same

[WenericMember]

7 minutes ago, aidankocherhans said:

What does glass cannon mean in this context?

Glass canon is a character that deals a lot of damage, but can't take more than 1-2d hits at a time. This is the intended playstyle of Wanda - strong weapons and a healing mechanic, but her dealing max damage at old age means she'll always only be a hit or two from dying, even with armour.

The flower shroud robbed Wendy of a chest slot, meaning that she was inherently at a disadvantage in combat, especially as armour probably got shredded more, making her play similar to Wanda? It's kinda hard to tell because we never got access to the build.

2 minutes ago, Fitzee said:

Maybe, in addition to this, Wendy could have an alternate action prompt that quickly does the last selected command when pressed, like a hotkey of sorts?

That'd also be a good QOL for all survivors with wheels, like Maxwell, Winona & Willow.

4 minutes ago, 1007954611 said:

 

willow自身是做不到吸引仇恨的，这是伯尼的作用。wendy如果可以吸引仇恨那么她最大优势是可以走位，某种方面可以说和willow是相反的模式，我觉得并没有一模一样

Willow himself cannot attract hatred, this is Bernie's role. If Wendy can attract hatred, her biggest advantage is that she can walk. In some ways, it is the opposite model to Willow. I don't think it is the same

I see, I don't know how that would translate to gameplay, but might be intersting.

[DVGMedia]

I Personally still don't understand How that new version of the shroud makes wendy a glass cannon? Just because abigail could potentially shred through armor thanks to the mob weakness and aoe monsters doing 3x damage to armor if both wendy and abby get hit?
or does that new version of the shroud not provide any protection of the head armor to wendy? We never really got to test it so I just don't understand how that resembles anything like wanda.

I still think the shroud is a good stand alone item to have for wendy as a skill tree item Its ablility just needs to be determined I have an idea like Wearing it increases the bond of wendy and abigail In doing so. Abigail mimics wendys movements while the item is equipped? Equipping it turns off abby's locomotor and copies the movements of the player.
Thats pretty dang good to give up a chest item for and adds new unique interactions.

Also for the elixirs Why are only the shadow and lunar elixir super elixers
We should have the ability to make all the regular elixirs into super elixirs so that they can be stacked
I would rather have that as an option rather than making multiple elixirs on the last potion skill.
 

[1007954611]

4 minutes ago, WenericMember said:

我明白了，我不知道这将如何转化为游戏玩法，但可能会很有趣。

就像电影里一些机灵的小孩一边呼喊着一边跑和躲避，吸引暴徒的注意力，帮助大人与暴徒展开搏斗那样

Just like some clever children in movies shouting and running while dodging, attracting the attention of thugs and helping adults fight against them

[WenericMember]

2 minutes ago, DVGMedia said:

I Personally still don't understand How that new version of the shroud makes wendy a glass cannon? Just because abigail could potentially shred through armor thanks to the mob weakness and aoe monsters doing 3x damage to armor if both wendy and abby get hit?
or does that new version of the shroud not provide any protection of the head armor to wendy? We never really got to test it so I just don't understand how that resembles anything like wanda.

I still think the shroud is a good stand alone item to have for wendy as a skill tree item Its ablility just needs to be determined I have an idea like Wearing it increases the bond of wendy and abigail In doing so. Abigail mimics wendys movements while the item is equipped? Equipping it turns off abby's locomotor and copies the movements of the player.
Thats pretty dang good to give up a chest item for and adds new unique interactions.

Also for the elixirs Why are only the shadow and lunar elixir super elixers
We should have the ability to make all the regular elixirs into super elixirs so that they can be stacked
I would rather have that as an option rather than making multiple elixirs on the last potion skill.
 

It's hard to say without seeing the version, but I imagine the armour shredding was probably the big issue. To OP for DR without shredding, too gameplay altering with.

Just now, 1007954611 said:

就像电影里一些机灵的小孩一边呼喊着一边跑和躲避，吸引暴徒的注意力，帮助大人与暴徒展开搏斗那样

Just like some clever children in movies shouting and running while dodging, attracting the attention of thugs and helping adults fight against them

Yeah, that would just Make Wendy the bernie :P

Idk, could work.

[WenericMember]

4 hours ago, Jason said:

What we plan to do next: Increase ways to use Mourning Glory, increase utility of Graves, Improve usability of the Team Spirit skills, catch up on bugs in the tracker.

So presumably the new perks will be the new uses for mourning Glory. It's interesting, but I do hope it's a 3 tier line because of how much room there is for new ideas. A revival item seems obvious, and maybe the re-use the flower shroud with a completely new focus?

Thanks so much for the work you've done throughout the beta, pretty much every skill that's needed attention seems to be getting some.

[arubaro]

I think the changes are really good. If someone isnt happy at this point is because they dont want to be.

Abi got a lot of survival and a crazy ammount of dps combined with wendy

 

I wish you put that much effort in every skill tree... wendy's already is better than most of them and you plan to improve it futher. Meanwhile Wolfgang’s and Wilson's are very bland, wormwood still has a lot of problems, wigfrid's lacks of variety of builds, most of  woodie's are perks to remove downsides instead of adding interesting stuff and has the limitation in his form's final perk, walter still has 3 ammo kinds with slow effect, wortox's lacks variety for single player... and more im forgetting