I love Walter, but he is not only ammo...

[Lucas Rego]

First off, I am very happy with the extra 120 ammo and the adjustments of them (besides the Gunpowder one, he tried to give a different vibe, but it's not good...)

However, Walter shouldn't be only focused on AMMO (hell, no even only Wobby!), he is more than that!

I know that the Devs are doing their best and the changes in the ammo is nice, however there's more to Walter, let me list some things:

1. He is a Scout, we should focus more on things like that, but I'm afraid it's too late to design stuff like that, like different ropes, easier survivability, and damn, I am sad to start with that and not give enough examples but my point is that Walter shouldn't be just SLINGSHOT + WOBY, it misses the extra skills that almost every skill tree has

2. His CAP is USELESS (sorry to be that mad), but besides equipping it along an armor to reduce his sanity loss (witch btw, is not the best choice, unless you have marble suit), the cap makes no sense for veterans, and for beginners it doesn't either because they can't handle the loss of sanity, my solution is to add something extra, add a flavour to that cap, please comment here if you are dissapointed that the cap is lame and it didn't get a single point in the skill tree, my solution would be: Equipping the cap would add a Critical hit (2x or 1.5 dmg to the slingshot), or if he equip that he could have 20% chance of 3 hitting the enemy, idk, something to add to the cap, but there's something that I thing we have a big pottential

3. Woby's training takes more than a year to fully develop!!!!!! - I know it's gonna change, and I wanna give my opinions on that.... so here we go:

- Having that Hollow Knight inspiration is awesome, but it doesn't work! (I wish it would bro!) 4 points to train 2 to 4 skills is "good" on paper (sorry, I really don't want to seem upset or angry but I'm trying my best, sorry), it's THE WORST THING EVER, you will understand... imagine WASTING 7 SKILL TREE POINTS TO TRAIN YOUR DOG,HOWEVER, it's not enough, you have to WASTE TIME, and it's not enough! You have to decide if you want it to be transformed or not, because, IDK if you guys noticed, however, if you have Woby transformed, you cannot learn the skills of her untransformed!! sorry Developer, I don't wanna trash on that, but wasting 7 skills to waste more than a year to fully transform your Wobby, you are better off (sorry again) to get a FREAKING BEEFALO.... but... what's could we do about it? My idea would be forgetting about it but I reallt wanna help.... Maybe we could add these badges by creating it with materials and with time it upgrades (e.g. 2 silk and 1 rope adds the badge level 1 of speed and in 5 days it grows fully).... it's not the best choice still.... having to waste time to get the advantage of a skill point is a lame (sorry)

4. Woby should be transformed into a Lunar or Dark form!!!

- EVERYTHING gets transformed in this game, dang, even the characters, and yet, Woby is that coward dog, and lorewise "She is a coward", yes, I agree, however there's a "character arc" which the character surpasses his/her fears and turns into a new version, Woby could be that, and for real, if you cannot attack with Woby or AT LEAST GIVE A WEAPON TO WALTER TO DO SO, sorry... we will still use Beefalo, so, therefore, the conclusion is, make wobby attack meelee!! (damn, even frogs changes into another form, but not woby..)

5. Woby (again) loses speed....

- Make something about that, Woby is worse than beefalo in 3 things, first that she doesn't attack meelee, second that she bucks you off, and third that she slows down over time, it needs to change!!! It's so lame that Woby is worse than walking by yourself! because CMON! by yourself you can attack meelee and you are not "stunned" to be buckled off, so, I know it's awesome for you guys to not wanting the Woby to replace Beefalo, however you need to buff Woby to be AT LEAST SOMETHING (if you play the game you know 99% of the players your not consider woby over beefalo!)

6. Walter needs CRIT!!

- I said it before and is just a reminder that WE KNOW, YOU WANT WALTER TO USE LESS AMMO ( WE WANT IT TOO),  just... ADD CRIT, 20% is not enough but it's something we would be glad!

7. "We don't want to make him overpower"

- Walter is in a state that even the players that don't play him pray for him! another thing, loosing sanity to damage is a HUGE DISADVANTAGE! therefore don't be shy to add a little bit of extra damage, DAMN... IT'S NOT EVEN EXTRA, Gloomerang and Howtlizer does more damage over time than him!!! "ohhhh... but it's late game..." Who gives a damn? if Walter's only perk is to be a range and he is WORSE THAN AN ANY CHARACTER WITH A GLOOMERANG, we have characters that with only a HAMBAT (Wolfgang... Willow.... Warly(I know)....  Should i put Maxwell?.... Ok Im' going to stop....) that gets more damage over time than him, I do understand that you are afraid of making him overpower, however, it's worse to keep him the way he is! maybe you could...

8. add an animation canceling to him!

- For real... if he has the same lame speed he has right now, we would be happe as f, if we could animation cancel with him, the starting of the slingshot animation just make it less wanted, i know i know that is not for people that didn't even kill deerclops, but don't forget that it would be amazing for old players

I will stop because it's getting too long, but i would give 100 more topics and reasons to buff MY BOY, BETWEEN BUFFING TO MUCH AND NOT BUFFING BECAUSE WE ARE AFRAIND, don't be p*****s, it's better to make people happy with the changes than sad 

[PunkShark]

While i would agree, the skill tree isn't about expanding him as a scout, but fixing his most primary issue of that being his slingshot.
He's got a tent, he can tell scary stories, he cooks faster, a small sanity boost of being near trees, He has woby because of the dog training badge, and of course his hat are all related to him being a Scout. And while yes he is a scout, his primary role in-game is being a ranged character and his skill tree should fixate on that role.

HOWEVER. Now that there are 5 skills off of the Woby branch there is space for other things potentially.
 

[Lucas Rego]

sorry for posting it too early... @PunkShark now I really elaborated on my thoughts, u didn't saw it, sorry for that 

[PunkShark]

2 minutes ago, Lucas Rego said:

sorry for posting it too early... @PunkShark now I really elaborated on my thoughts, u didn't saw it, sorry for that 

Hey don't be sorry, mistakes happen
 I'll give it a read and come back to ya.

[Lucas Rego]

@PunkShark I mistakenly pressed enter and I couldn't deleted, so when you saw I was in the middle of my thinking hahahahahahah, sorry, please come basck, I wanna know your thoughts

[Lucas Rego]

I'm glad that I finally could express my true feeling on my old dear main <3

[PunkShark]

Okay, phew. A lot going on here ^^

So i think it's important to remember that Woby is not meant to replace a beefalo but a good alternative. The point of Woby is for Walter to team up with her for more accessible range and speed, while yes rn the woby perks are pretty bad rn, there are ideas to expand her and Woby forming as a team, which will help with his sanity issues regarding combat and the amount of dmg she can take before Walter gets bucked off, and just to reiterate the skills are not done so we can't look at it in a finished perspective. And that's important to remember when we're talking about other skills for walter himself and sanity issues he has at the moment.

I don't think it would fit thematically for Woby to have affinities for herself, nor would it be fitting for her to attack things. the idea of Walter is to be a ranged character at heart. And i think it just wouldn't really work for his themes. That and i think it's a bit redundant to have another follower with a shadow and lunar form when we already have a couple who does this. Which does not mean Walter needs it too. And sure, you could say it could just be a character arc for her, but that's not really how the characters work and i think it'd be a shame to get rid of her personality of being a scared dog but courageous when needed.

instead i think they should add on to the idea that she is courageous when needed. Maybe she could pick up Walter in haste when he gets hurt at a certain threshold to avoid death like she does in the short. like a safety net.

I like the idea of crits, I don't have much to say about that , could be a part of one of his mods for the slingshot. 
Also as a sidenote, there's a secret slingshot band in-game rn that lets you able to shoot your rounds without the chance of using up the ammo.

[_mylilsunshine_]

I want to chime in on the discussion as I love Walter very much, but the bold text, caps, and exclamation marks keep yelling at me.

[Lucas Rego]

2 minutes ago, PunkShark said:

So i think it's important to remember that Woby is not meant to replace a beefalo but a good alternative.

I know that, however the point is that people that play him unfortunatelly will still use beefalo if they don't do a good job, it is that sadly

5 minutes ago, PunkShark said:

I don't think it would fit thematically for Woby to have affinities for herself, nor would it be fitting for her to attack things.

I totally understant people that thinks about that and that's a strong statement, however, if we get Woby to hit and run and Beef to tank, it's hard to choose Woby, and I want to choose her

 

7 minutes ago, PunkShark said:

instead i think they should add on to the idea that she is courageous when needed. Maybe she could pick up Walter in haste when he gets hurt at a certain threshold to avoid death like she does in the short. like a safety net.

I like it, it's a nice alternative and something else

8 minutes ago, PunkShark said:

I like the idea of crits, I don't have much to say about that , could be a part of one of his mods for the slingshot. 

Thanks <3

8 minutes ago, PunkShark said:

Also as a sidenote, there's a secret slingshot band in-game rn that lets you able to shoot your rounds without the chance of using up the ammo.

I saw that, it's neat, ammo nicely is not an issue, the issue I see is that the skill tree is about Woby/Slingshot, and there's nothing that amuses us and brings something new, u know what i mean?

[Mr Giggio]

14 minutes ago, _mylilsunshine_ said:

I want to chime in on the discussion as I love Walter very much, but the bold text, caps, and exclamation marks keep yelling at me.

Take it with a bit of salt its just a case of how his energy works, I know Luke in real life and he's super high energy light sense of humor easy to be around a bit goofy and heartsome even, super dedicated and  it just manifests thought text like that 

[Lucas Rego]

1 hour ago, _mylilsunshine_ said:

I want to chime in on the discussion as I love Walter very much, but the bold text, caps, and exclamation marks keep yelling at me.

I’m passionate about Walter, they said people should play him more and I used to be a Walter main, that’s why I knew I would be like that and I said I’m sorry because of that hhahahaha, and devs said they wanted us to play him more, it’s just an opinion of a ex-main Walter that loves him so much 

1 hour ago, _mylilsunshine_ said:

I want to chime in on the discussion as I love Walter very much, but the bold text, caps, and exclamation marks keep yelling at me.

I just added bold text and CAPS to make it easier for people to get to the main points

 

[PunkShark]

2 minutes ago, Lucas Rego said:

I saw that, it's neat, ammo nicely is not an issue, the issue I see is that the skill tree is about Woby/Slingshot, and there's nothing that amuses us and brings something new, u know what i mean?

I get what you mean. Skill tree balance is a slippery slope and many people want different things out of it, and of course when it's your main especially you have high hopes, so i get it.
Skill trees are different from character to character, it seems they follow their own rules and themes than just being a complete rework of a character at times. And that is because some characters are already filled to the brim of ideas and themes in their basekit but fall flat, or some just don't have much to work with, and some are already good hence why they get a bit more of a gimmicky skill set like Wolfgang, or partially Wendy. But i think that is also why it is not a good idea to compare them, as they're all different and balance themselves around the character accordingly, and you're bound to get disappointed if you compare your main's potential skill tree with Willow's. Skill trees are not just about giving more things for the sake of it but to fix issues with a characters kit or expand them so they don't just fill in a niche role.

Context regarding Willow:

Spoiler

Willow before her skill tree was one of the few characters in the roster who didn't really have much. She had bernie/basic big bernie, a low radius lighter, no dmg from flames, and some smaller perks related to fire like faster cooking, and more fuel efficiency. She overall felt very very boring. It's no joke she was just deemed a meme griefing character because her purpose with the roster was just quite nonexistent, so either you were a griefer or you just liked Willow's personality. Either way, she was missing something crucial in her kit to make her stand out from the rest. Which is why her skill tree was much like a rework. Because she needed it.

Walter is the former, his kit is already filled to the brim of ideas and themes but fall flat throughout the game, most importantly his weakest part of his kit was the slingshot which is meant to be his contrast to why his sanity is bad regarding combat. This is why he didn't really get anything new overall to himself. Because in a way, Walter himself is already good, but his range abilities were not and is what kept him from being good in the first place. Once you begin to make the slingshot actually useful all of his kit begins to shine. like a finished puzzle piece.

I'm not disagreeing that Walter should get more perks towards himself i'm just saying there's a reason why and every single skill tree is different

[Lucas Rego]

 

41 minutes ago, Mr Giggio said:

Take it with a bit of salt its just a case of how his energy works, I know Luke in real life and he's super high energy light sense of humor easy to be around a bit goofy and heartsome even, super dedicated and  it just manifests thought text like that 

Thanks bro, u understand me hahahaha

11 minutes ago, PunkShark said:

I get what you mean. Skill tree balance is a slippery slope and many people want different things out of it, and of course when it's your main especially you have high hopes, so i get it.
Skill trees are different from character to character, it seems they follow their own rules and themes than just being a complete rework of a character at times. And that is because some characters are already filled to the brim of ideas and themes in their basekit but fall flat, or some just don't have much to work with, and some are already good hence why they get a bit more of a gimmicky skill set like Wolfgang, or partially Wendy. But i think that is also why it is not a good idea to compare them, as they're all different and balance themselves around the character accordingly, and you're bound to get disappointed if you compare your main's potential skill tree with Willow's. Skill trees are not just about giving more things for the sake of it but to fix issues with a characters kit or expand them so they don't just fill in a niche role.

Context regarding Willow:

  Hide contents

Willow before her skill tree was one of the few characters in the roster who didn't really have much. She had bernie/basic big bernie, a low radius lighter, no dmg from flames, and some smaller perks related to fire like faster cooking, and more fuel efficiency. She overall felt very very boring. It's no joke she was just deemed a meme griefing character because her purpose with the roster was just quite nonexistent, so either you were a griefer or you just liked Willow's personality. Either way, she was missing something crucial in her kit to make her stand out from the rest. Which is why her skill tree was much like a rework. Because she needed it.

Walter is the former, his kit is already filled to the brim of ideas and themes but fall flat throughout the game, most importantly his weakest part of his kit was the slingshot which is meant to be his contrast to why his sanity is bad regarding combat. This is why he didn't really get anything new overall to himself. Because in a way, Walter himself is already good, but his range abilities were not and is what kept him from being good in the first place. Once you begin to make the slingshot actually useful all of his kit begins to shine. like a finished puzzle piece.

I'm not disagreeing that Walter should get more perks towards himself i'm just saying there's a reason why and every single skill tree is different

In terms of pure DPS, giving 68/72 or whatever the new Dreadstone ammo gives is not enough unfortunately, because if we consider normal atk speed and worse, canceling, he isn’t even fun to play, it’s just slower than Wes and if you played Wes you know that the problem is that he is a slow progress, and not that he is hard.

in regards of Wes it’s even worse, people say it’s harder to play Walter than Wes, sad but I understand them

19 minutes ago, PunkShark said:

his kit is already filled to the brim of ideas and themes but fall flat throughout the game.

Totally agree with that my man

[flamboyant wolf]

1 hour ago, PunkShark said:

I don't think it would fit thematically for Woby to have affinities for herself, nor would it be fitting for her to attack things. 

+

[Blue Tangerine]

Okay, my thought is that if the skill for increasing ammo production is only 30 at maximum, it seems to become less good, because it was originally 10→20→40, and now it is 20→30, so the increase in production is not so significant. Another thing I want to add is that I hope Walter's skill tree can provide a solution for his bee allergy, just like Hamlet's nettles. Maybe some changes can be made to the Beekeeper's hat?
The skill tree for Woby training only has 4 points, which is obviously insufficient for 5 branches. I hope some of them can be merged.
I don't quite understand how Mimic ammo works. Maybe I need to wait until others try it out tomorrow to give their evaluation.

[Mysterious box]

Walter's in a weird spot really while it's true he can break the balance of the game he doesn't really have enough of a hook that makes him stand out against the rest of the cast or make people look past his downside currently at least. His pre skill tree abilities don't really hold a lot of value to a lot of people beyond being neat supportive skills sadly and his current skill tree abilities while they do fix a long standing issue with the slingshot the main thing that tends to draw people into him it more so puts Walter at a base level of good or maybe even a little lower in a world where a character's skill trees usually put them above the baseline. Perhaps he might need an additional hook though I'm not really sure. Personally I think Woby should be a more fleshed out part of his gameplay even if it's not specifically mount Woby.

[Ruperstiltskin]

People keep saying that woby should keep bucking you off her, but if im not recalling wrongly, woby did enter combat to save walter in the cinematic that introduced the characters, ok woby is coward, dont let her attack but i really really feel that we can get over woby bucking you off already even if its with some skills, now that i think of it, its kinda the opposite of what cinematic and lore woby would do in that situation! lore woby would risk her life to actually buck you up to get you away from danger.

Woby is a coward against opponents but would NOT let her friend Walter die

[Sikers]

4 hours ago, PunkShark said:

I don't think it would fit thematically for Woby to have affinities for herself

Are you sure about that? They seem to get along 

 

[weirdokun]

I hope many of your suggestions will be considered by Klei, especially the utility/QOL ones! I (and I guess many other players) have almost never played Walter because there are more characters that can survive better early and late game even in solo... but I really would LOVE to try him out IF they give him a huge buff like what they did with Willow and others who got their skill trees.

[Lucas Rego]

8 hours ago, Blue Tangerine said:

Okay, my thought is that if the skill for increasing ammo production is only 30 at maximum, it seems to become less good, because it was originally 10→20→40, and now it is 20→30, so the increase in production is not so significant. Another thing I want to add is that I hope Walter's skill tree can provide a solution for his bee allergy, just like Hamlet's nettles. Maybe some changes can be made to the Beekeeper's hat?
The skill tree for Woby training only has 4 points, which is obviously insufficient for 5 branches. I hope some of them can be merged.
I don't quite understand how Mimic ammo works. Maybe I need to wait until others try it out tomorrow to give their evaluation.

The mimic one:

you put the sling made out of tentacle spots on The ornery chest or you make it eat it, after you kill the ornery chest it turns into a new one, it has approx 25% chance to not use an ammo

7 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

Walter's in a weird spot really while it's true he can break the balance of the game he doesn't really have enough of a hook that makes him stand out against the rest of the cast or make people look past his downside currently at least.

A Character that is bad for beginners and bad for late game, like… Howtlizer and aglomerante is a thing, if late game he doesn’t at least get the same DPS why would we use him? It’s sad because people always complained to me about Walter and I always defend, but the thing is that his slingshot is more like an utility than a weapon before the skill tree

5 hours ago, Sikers said:

Are you sure about that? They seem to get along 

 

Besides, imagine how cool would be the art of lunar/shadow Woby

[ZeRoboButler]

6 hours ago, Sikers said:

Are you sure about that? They seem to get along 

 

either that or shadows are still capable of thinking dogs are cute too.

[Radicaljoe]

I always thought that scene meant that guy was her old owner, but he got turned into a shadow creature?

2 hours ago, ZeRoboButler said:

either that or shadows are still capable of thinking dogs are cute too.

I have no proof to support it, but felt like that because of how calm she got after getting closer to him.

Weird, it put the quoted selection in the middle of the sentence 

[Lucas Rego]

46 minutes ago, SSneaky said:

This is why skilltrees need to have more than like, 30 options.

Hahahahah, well if you consider that many skilltrees has the struggle to choose the skills, Walter’s more struggling the opposite way, it’s not about 30 options I think, it’s about good options

[Well-met]

16 hours ago, Lucas Rego said:

Who gives a damn?

klei and a whole lot of people apparently.

[Evelo]

Walter skill tree is a bust for me. Too many new items, with the only baseline change being the increase of pellets when crafting and the stack size increase. I dislike new items being added to skill trees that aren't directly tied to the affinity chosen. I like Woby Training a lot but I dislike how the first talent is needed to unlock it, instead of being a baseline character thing. Klei seems to be doing re-refreshes with some characters as skill trees instead of giving them a proper re-refresh. It feels like slapping adhesive bandage to a severed leg.