Why Can't Woby Be Better Than a Beefalo?

[Y0sH]

Disclaimer: I am in NO WAY a Walter expert or can accurately speak to his current or base issues.

As far as I know the goal with Woby is make him a good alternative to taming a Beefalo WITHOUT him being outright better than one right? (Could be wrong idk.) 

If this is the premise behind Woby, I question why can't he be stronger than one? Walter players suffer from a rather quiet playerbase due to not having a large playerbase to begin with. 

Here are some of my suggestions (mind you they may be terrible)

1. Make the monster meat thing a requirement only when you are knocked off of Woby and out of fear Woby turns back to normal form.

2. Make it considerably more harder to knock Walter off Woby rivaling a regular Beefalo's health pool.

3. Make his trainings permanent once completed but make it more focused with insight cost. Only allowing a few of his trainings to be active at full capacity at once. 

4. When voluntarily dismounting Big Woby create a timer that the player can get back on Big Woby without him going back to normal thus costing monster meat to transform again.

EDIT: Make this timer shorter for evening time and substantially shorter at night and additionally make the damage halved it would take to knock Walter off at night. This creates a nice theme between fearless Walter and a Timid hearted Woby at night.

TLDR: Make Woby literally a Beefalo copy that's fully tamed and available Day 1 in an attempt to bring in more Walter players because their playerbase is suffering heavily.

[Ruperstiltskin]

9 minutes ago, Y0sH said:

1. Make the monster meat thing a requirement only when you are knocked off of Woby and out of fear Woby turns back to normal form.

Stress induced hunger i love that idea tbh and if the hunger meter would only decrease when taking damage that would be 10/10

[Y0sH]

3 minutes ago, Ruperstiltskin said:

Stress induced hunger i love that idea tbh and if the hunger meter would only decrease when taking damage that would be 10/10

Oooh that would be great as well. Hopefully Klei gets Walter in a way better place. You guys have literally the most anticipated and needed skilltree and it's sad to see it not going too great.

[Ruperstiltskin]

7 minutes ago, Y0sH said:

Oooh that would be great as well. Hopefully Klei gets Walter in a way better place. You guys have literally the most anticipated and needed skilltree and it's sad to see it not going too great.

I think it got the right direction to some degree already, but im afraid they are gonna run out of time before they can fully develop fully the skill tree, all we can do is hope it gets there

[Peasant]

Only read TLDR

Because a woby is rather low costed compared to a trained beefalo, so in compensate it must be weaker than a trained beefalo. Odd, I thought everyone in the forum holds such opinion, from my observation over people's idea about Abigail, or rather over whether Wendy should get more strength.

That being said, current woby seems to be on the other opposite, which is common in klei's balance trys. I imagine giving woby a better upgrade line which would take around 20 days might increase Woby's significance to players, which appearantly is what they're doing

[Ruperstiltskin]

16 minutes ago, Ruperstiltskin said:

Stress induced hunger i love that idea tbh and if the hunger meter would only decrease when taking damage that would be 10/10

On that note, i would love if some of the woby training skills would allow woby to work kinda like this:

You feed her monster meat and her hunger doesnt decrease unless:

1- You get hit while riding her.

2-You are fighting without riding woby.

So basicly when you get hit it gets reduce for a set ammount and when woby does the fear animation would be reduced slowly to some degree.

Not only fix the woby being high maintenance in comparisong to beefs, you get to train woby to get the same level of confort of low maintenance and rewards walter for using woby as a mount in combat

[Catuna_]

21 minutes ago, Y0sH said:

If this is the premise behind Woby, I question why can't he be stronger than one? Walter players suffer from a rather quiet playerbase due to not having a large playerbase to begin with. 

The reason is because making Woby a better beefalo would involve her doing what a beefalo does.
aside from speed which woby has, beefalo are meant for their infinite durability attacks and tanking damage for the player, two things woby cannot do because:
1) she is a day 1 perk while beefalo are a 20-day investment
2) she is a skittish and scaredy dog and it's against her whole personality to do these things considering she cowers in fear from watching walter smack a butterfly
3) she is not Walter's dog and it's Walter's quest to return her to her owner, so it's reasonable he's trying to keep her safe

22 minutes ago, Y0sH said:

1. Make the monster meat thing a requirement only when you are knocked off of Woby and out of fear Woby turns back to normal form.

2. Make it considerably more harder to knock Walter off Woby rivaling a regular Beefalo's health pool.

3. Make his trainings permanent once completed but make it more focused with insight cost. Only allowing a few of his trainings to be active at full capacity at once. 

4. When voluntarily dismounting Big Woby create a timer that the player can get back on Big Woby without him going back to normal thus costing monster meat to transform again.

I don't want to be rude in any way but these seem to vary from annoying to just not very useful.
1. Woby turning back into small woby just because you get bucked sounds quite obnoxious, and I think that the current system is fine as long as Woby gets buffed to justify her recurring cost.
2. Woby doesn't take any damage for Walter, increasing the threshold of the damage she can stomach doesn't do much. 8 damage might not sound like a lot but that's equivalent to an effective 160 damage while wearing marble armor or night armor (meaning that only something like a T3 Shadow rook can really buck you off easily)
3. Woby training branch issues revolve around training just being rather boring and unimpactful, they don't make her compete with a beefalo because you can just have a beefalo and keep small woby for digging and picking up items while not having to train agility or support/bravery becuase a beefalo already does all of this.
4. I don't understand the utility of this, it's a big non issue... Do you think Woby just detransforms every time you get off of her? She has a hunger system. I'm confused

[Ruperstiltskin]

9 minutes ago, Catuna_ said:

aside from speed which woby has, beefalo are meant for their infinite durability attacks and tanking damage for the player, two things woby cannot do because:
1) she is a day 1 perk while beefalo are a 20-day investment

Why cant a character specific treat or skill be better than the regular thing? isnt that kinda the point of personal skills of characters? should we nerf then wandas clock cause its better than a darksword when its less investment too? should we nerf bernie cause it can tank too much and can be repaired with 1/5 of a sewing kit? should we make lucy have durability cause its better than a regular axe??? i dont really get the point of saying that just because it comes free with a character it should be worse than a regular thing anyone else can get

I agree woby shouldnt be a beefalo 2.0 but she should be a viable option anyway :S

[Y0sH]

4 minutes ago, Catuna_ said:

The reason is because making Woby a better beefalo would involve her doing what a beefalo does.
aside from speed which woby has, beefalo are meant for their infinite durability attacks and tanking damage for the player, two things woby cannot do because:
1) she is a day 1 perk while beefalo are a 20-day investment
2) she is a skittish and scaredy dog and it's against her whole personality to do these things considering she cowers in fear from watching walter smack a butterfly
3) she is not Walter's dog and it's Walter's quest to return her to her owner, so it's reasonable he's trying to keep her safe

I don't want to be rude in any way but these seem to vary from annoying to just not very useful.
1. Woby turning back into small woby just because you get bucked sounds quite obnoxious, and I think that the current system is fine as long as Woby gets buffed to justify her recurring cost.
2. Woby doesn't take any damage for Walter, increasing the threshold of the damage she can stomach doesn't do much. 8 damage might not sound like a lot but that's equivalent to an effective 160 damage while wearing marble armor or night armor (meaning that only something like a T3 Shadow rook can really buck you off easily)
3. Woby training branch issues revolve around training just being rather boring and unimpactful, they don't make her compete with a beefalo because you can just have a beefalo and keep small woby for digging and picking up items while not having to train agility or support/bravery becuase a beefalo already does all of this.
4. I don't understand the utility of this, it's a big non issue... Do you think Woby just detransforms every time you get off of her? She has a hunger system. I'm confused

Read the disclaimer portion at the start of the post. This thread was more so to see if it was reasonable to give Woby more gains as she seems to be a pain point in the beta. As said by the develops adjusting the slingshot is essentially a slippery slope because range damage is strong. Given that I have admittedly a very very small amount of experience with Walter I dont possess the insight to even discuss the intricacies of his slingshot.

The increase in damage being able to be taken was to make her actually take damage for Walter and Walter still being able to be targeted separately from specific mobs: IE Bishops.

The training being boring could be fixed with you only having to do it once thus gaining said training perk early. Imagine if other characters had to defeat end game bosses every time to unlock their affinity? It would be horrible.

Give the ability to force de transform Woby when wanted but costing to transform her back seems reasonable.

[Catuna_]

9 minutes ago, Ruperstiltskin said:

Why cant a character specific treat or skill be better than the regular thing? isnt that kinda the point of personal skills of characters? should we nerf then wandas clock cause its better than a darksword when its less investment too? should we nerf bernie cause it can tank too much and can be repaired with 1/5 of a sewing kit? should we make lucy have durability cause its better than a regular axe??? i dont really get the point of saying that just because it comes free with a character it should be worse than a regular thing anyone else can get

because in this direct context making woby a better beefalo would involve giving her mechanics that directly go against the character, which i said in the literal next sentence

5 minutes ago, Y0sH said:

Given that I have admittedly a very very small amount of experience with Walter I dont possess the insight to even discuss the intricacies of his slingshot.

that is why i responded to the post, it just seems like you thought Woby automatically turns small after you dismount her from your wording?
with all due respect, i do not think you should be trying to discuss a character you haven't even played yet to understand

6 minutes ago, Y0sH said:

The training being boring could be fixed with you only having to do it once thus gaining said training perk early. Imagine if other characters had to defeat end game bosses every time to unlock their affinity? It would be horrible.

this isnt a proper comparison, wanting to keep progression as a theme for walter's skill tree is fine and that's why woby training being on a per world basis is fine in my honest opinion
time to max them out could be reduced sure but their overall issue is not the time taken to train them but that they just kind of suck right now and the perks just need to progressively build up rather than only giving the bonuses when maxed
give us an actual reward for not just maxing out gambler woby and taming a beefalo and forgetting about her

[_mylilsunshine_]

29 minutes ago, Catuna_ said:

The reason is because making Woby a better beefalo would involve her doing what a beefalo does.
aside from speed which woby has, beefalo are meant for their infinite durability attacks and tanking damage for the player, two things woby cannot do because:
1) she is a day 1 perk while beefalo are a 20-day investment
2) she is a skittish and scaredy dog and it's against her whole personality to do these things considering she cowers in fear from watching walter smack a butterfly
3) she is not Walter's dog and it's Walter's quest to return her to her owner, so it's reasonable he's trying to keep her safe

A fellow Walter & Woby lore enjoyer, I see you

[Ruperstiltskin]

8 minutes ago, Catuna_ said:

because in this direct context making woby a better beefalo would involve giving her mechanics that directly go against the character, which i said in the literal next sentence

The thing is they litteratly give wortox lunar affinity something against lore just to make it fair so i dont really think thats a reason to avoid making woby better

[Y0sH]

6 minutes ago, Catuna_ said:

with all due respect, i do not think you should be trying to discuss a character you haven't even played yet to understand

I'll never mention another character again until I have extensive gameplay to justify my posts regarding/requesting ideas that can possibly give their playerbase more engagement.

Noted. Got It.

[Paxtonnnn]

6 minutes ago, Ruperstiltskin said:

The thing is they litteratly give wortox lunar affinity something against lore just to make it fair so i dont really think thats a reason to avoid making woby better

How is that against lore? Wortox isn't related to shadows, he's not even from the Constant at all.

[Catuna_]

6 minutes ago, Ruperstiltskin said:

The thing is they litteratly give wortox lunar affinity something against lore just to make it fair so i dont really think thats a reason to avoid making woby better

what?

1 minute ago, Y0sH said:

I'll never mention another character again until I have extensive gameplay to justify my posts regarding/requesting ideas that can possibly give their playerbase more engagement.

Noted. Got It.

I think that a character's player base would do just fine from their players and people who've experienced the character making their own topics on the subject
This isn't meant to be an attack and I'm sorry that it could've come off this way but it's just not really helpful to talk about a character you don't understand when all that ends up devolving into is a mix of misinformation and pointless arguing (like what's happening right now) rather than actual ideas

[Ruperstiltskin]

8 minutes ago, Paxtonnnn said:

How is that against lore? Wortox isn't related to shadows, he's not even from the Constant at all.

 

4 minutes ago, Catuna_ said:

what?

Wortox lunar affinity, they said it makes no sense that it stops damage fully from anything else than shadow monsters:

"The Lunar Affinity being protective against Shadow Aligned made sense with lore, but comparing it to the Bone Armor, an item that you get right before rifts, made the restriction too overbearing and the perk not useful. This is addressed in the hotfix."

From the hotfix

[Steorra]

Because Woby is a "Day 0 free" thing.

[Mysterious box]

5 hours ago, YXukun said:

Only read TLDR

Because a woby is rather low costed compared to a trained beefalo, so in compensate it must be weaker than a trained beefalo. Odd, I thought everyone in the forum holds such opinion, from my observation over people's idea about Abigail, or rather over whether Wendy should get more strength.

That being said, current woby seems to be on the other opposite, which is common in klei's balance trys. I imagine giving woby a better upgrade line which would take around 20 days might increase Woby's significance to players, which appearantly is what they're doing

Interestingly Woby is actually more expensive than a trained beefalo since she needs to be fed more often with a spoiling material while also being worse than a trained beefalo since she's slower, offers no protection, and will buck you while you're in trouble.

The current version of the training even if shortened doesn't give the incentive to use her. Basically so long as they both require training and Woby comes out weaker she'll never truly be a consideration.

[Copyafriend]

20 minutes ago, Steorra said:

Because Woby is a "Day 0 free" thing.

Honestly what a silly point

 

We can easily make a woby upgrade require mid or lategame materials.

 

Not to mention a beefalo can easily be tamed day 1, and woby's training to be as good as a beefalo takes as long/almost as long as a beefalo takes to finish taming

Except the beefalo never needs any feeding ever again and also is less expensive to tame compared to constantly keeping woby fed with monster meat

 

PLUS woby never getting past his need for monster meat while beefalo will eventually never need feeding

AND beefalo perfectly protecting their rider while woby doesnt do anything

AND the beefalo does everything woby does but better (except speed, woby is SLIGHTLY faster now)

 

Imagine if every character could tame a ghost and have abigail but better. Wendy players would be pissed

[Peasant]

11 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Interestingly Woby is actually more expensive than a trained beefalo since she needs to be fed more often with a spoiling material while also being worse than a trained beefalo since she's slower, offers no protection, and will buck you while you're in trouble.

The current version of the training even if shortened doesn't give the incentive to use her. Basically so long as they both require training and Woby comes out weaker she'll never truly be a consideration.

Poor big doggy, if Woby is really a dog…Wait, didnt Woby seemed to be familiar with that shadow watcher guy in one of the videos?

[Steorra]

5 minutes ago, Copyafriend said:

Honestly what a silly point

 

We can easily make a woby upgrade require mid or lategame materials.

 

Not to mention a beefalo can easily be tamed day 1, and woby's training to be as good as a beefalo takes as long/almost as long as a beefalo takes to finish taming

Except the beefalo never needs any feeding ever again and also is less expensive to tame compared to constantly keeping woby fed with monster meat

 

PLUS woby never getting past his need for monster meat while beefalo will eventually never need feeding

AND beefalo perfectly protecting their rider while woby doesnt do anything

AND the beefalo does everything woby does but better (except speed, woby is SLIGHTLY faster now)

 

Imagine if every character could tame a ghost and have abigail but better. Wendy players would be pissed

Tbh I would only feel cool if everyone could tame a ghost even they‘re better than abi.

I would not feel bad if some others get some good thing than my main character. I'm not good at envy.

 

I only feel bad when someone give different standard to what they like and what they don't like.

[Crimson Hollow]

5 minutes ago, Copyafriend said:

PLUS woby never getting past his need for monster meat while beefalo will eventually never need feeding

AND beefalo perfectly protecting their rider while woby doesnt do anything

Good points, but I think Woby does have advantages in this aspect. 

I have seen ppl complaining that a lot of late game enemies have knockback and their beefalos will engage in combat until one of them dies. Then you have to tame another one, and protecting your beefalo also requires skills which imo is harder than training woby.

But I agree that Woby training is not really an appealing choice compared with beefalos once you get past early game. She need a buff.

[Mysterious box]

1 minute ago, Crimson Hollow said:

Good points, but I think Woby does have advantages in this aspect. 

I have seen ppl complaining that a lot of late game enemies have knockback and their beefalos will engage in combat until one of them dies. Then you have to tame another one, and protecting your beefalo also requires skills which imo is harder than training woby.

But I agree that Woby training is not really an appealing choice compared with beefalos once you get past early game. She need a buff.

That's not really an advantage considering the player can still use a beefalo outside knockback encounters or can just use them for travel even in this situation it's still more expensive to maintain Woby over a standard beefalo.

11 minutes ago, Steorra said:

Tbh I would only feel cool if everyone could tame a ghost even they‘re better than abi.

I would not feel bad if some others get some good thing than my main character. I'm not good at envy.

 

I only feel bad when someone give different standard to what they like and what they don't like.

Also this feels like your operating in bad faith

[Steorra]

11 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

That's not really an advantage considering the player can still use a beefalo outside knockback encounters or can just use them for travel even in this situation it's still more expensive to maintain Woby over a standard beefalo.

Also this feels like your operating in bad faith

I don't agree that Wortox need be nerf about his de-monster tag.

I don't agree that Woby should be weak than beefulo

I don't agree that Wendy is strong at day 0 so her skill tree should not cover her downside.

I don't agree that someone never use a character to finish main quest line of DST, but they insist their judge about those characters.

I only feel someone is good at envy and to use different standard to judge different character only because they like / dislike them.

 

There's a simple logic, if someone prefer to judge other characters which they don't like & they know nothing details (which means they only have watch some video about how those characters performed, but they never try those characters in real game), then these guys deserve same judge to their main characters.

[Copyafriend]

2 minutes ago, Steorra said:

I don't agree that someone never use a character to finish main quest line of DST, but they insist their judge about those characters.

You do not need to complete the game to form an opinion on a character.

 

90% of the cast is fairly simple and easy to understand, a single years worth of playtime is plenty to understand their characters up and downsides.

The 100ish days that tbe insight points demand to finish unlocking skill points is more than enough to understand a character. That doesnt mean that they know the character inside and out, but we do not need to hold people to such high standards just for them to have an opinion about something.

 

4 minutes ago, Steorra said:

I don't agree that Wendy is strong at day 0 so her skill tree should not cover her downside

They've announced an elixer that brings abigail back to full strength instantly, this covers abigails weakness.