Walter skill tree just got worse for no real reason.

[Tarnishedmax]

Walter skill tree before the stream was already pretty good despite needing some work but some of these changes are genuinely just, pointless and borderline nerfs.

I wont comment that much on Woby changes since they are planning on something for the future but i hope they realize how half of them are unusable and almost impossible to train, fetch does nothing and having to get hit to train Woby requires so much work that at that point i would rather just tame a beefalo and be done with it.

I know crafting 40 pellets was a bit too much but having to use 2 whole skill points for an extra 10 ammo its just overly expensive??? i was expecting them to nerf that but replace that second skill with something like a marble bag to compensate but as of now its just kinda pointless,

The gunpowder rounds change sounds fun on paper but they just removed the most consistent and high damaging option Walter had for single target, it wasnt enough cursed rounds are already rng dependant for damage and miss half of the time and needed the slowdown rounds to work properly apparently, sure you can prototype them now i guess but like, its not a good trade off for the amount of damage those rounds did, Walter damage is just really low again now and need to be min maxed when you could just like, hit stuff with a thulecite club or darksword instead.

There is still a HUGE gap between the slingshot upgrades, scrappy frame is actually usable now sure but not having a grip upgrade with mid game materials is ridiculous, the gap between 2 silk and a void robe is absurdly high and the sticky grip its just straight up pointless, nobody is gonna find an use for this thing, new players are gonna die in rain before they start caring about their slingshot slipping and for the 2 bosses its useful for (moose goose and bearger) you already out-range them so you dont really need to use it at all, and the worst part is that the thing is before the void grip so im forced to waste a point in something that nobody is ever gonna use.

Dont get me wrong from this post, there were some good changes, such as slowdown rounds stacking, higher round stack and prototypable ammo but i feel like this is a 1 step forward 2 steps back situation, i know they probably used up most of their time on the Wendy changes but its really upsetting to see Walter get even worse for no real reason and not have any significant changes to compensate for the loss of consistent single target damage and just how terrible the state of Woby is right now.

[Pruinae]

I don't know the new numbers in the Dreadstone Rounds, but before the damage buff it got, Thulecite Rounds were better single target DPS when combined with Icky Rounds' slow.

Considering they now made so you can permanently learn the recipe for the Thulecite Rounds (after you've made them once ofc), and how dreadstone is hard to come by early on, Thulecite Rounds were, and most likely still are, the main single target DPS rounds early game.

They mentioned making pure horror rounds that deal a DoT effect (that stacks 3 times), those are probably going to be the late game single target DPS ammo.

[Horsheen]

Agree absolutely with everything you said here.I'm really hoping that the changes to dreadstone ammo will make it good enough to replace the gunpowder rounds as the single target DPS round

[Primalflower]

im just sitting here pogging over archives buff (prototypable cursed rounds)

[Mysterious box]

11 minutes ago, Tarnishedmax said:

sticky grip its just straight up pointless, nobody is gonna find an use for this thing, new players are gonna die in rain before they start caring about their slingshot slipping and for the 2 bosses its useful for (moose goose and bearger) you already out-range them so you dont really need to use it at all, and the worst part is that the thing is before the void grip so im forced to waste a point in something that nobody is ever gonna use.

Honestly this one is particularly strange to me I didn't really bring it up because I'm not in the mind of a new player but it's existence begs quite a few questions like why would a new player pick this over faster fire rate or how would a new player or casual player end up in a situation where it's usable and they aren't already dead in the rain scenario they have to be intentionally keeping themselves alive despite being wet without taking measures to dry off and have planned ahead of time enough that they had this equipped over fire rate. In the boss scenario they would be preparing for having gotten hit instead of lowering their odds of getting hit.

[Tarnishedmax]

Just now, Pruinae said:

I don't know the new numbers in the Dreadstone Rounds, but before the damage buff it got, Thulecite Rounds were better single target DPS when combined with Icky Rounds' slow.

Considering they now made so you can permanently learn the recipe for the Thulecite Rounds (after you've made them once ofc), and how dreadstone is hard to come by early on, Thulecite Rounds were, and most likely still are, the main single target DPS rounds early game.

They mentioned making pure horror rounds that deal a DoT effect (that stacks 3 times), those are probably going to be the late game single target DPS ammo.

the issue with thulecite rounds is that they need a bunch of min maxing to work properly and despite being his highest single damage possible this was only really true with bosses, and with bosses you could just use melee weapons instead so this just makes the slingshot a subpar weapon still, gunpowder rounds had the utility of not needing anything else to work making them really useful for day to day tasks such as killing smaller mobs or extremely agile mobs that you couldnt just keep in a straight line like the ink blight trio, also a lot of enemies are inmune to icky rounds making the thulecite rounds kinda harder to use for too little damage when again you could just wack stuff with a club for the exact same effect, hitting something with a slowing round makes it easier to actually fight with melee weapons so again they kinda just become redundant unless you really want to never let go of the slingshot

 

[Mysterious box]

8 minutes ago, Primalflower said:

im just sitting here pogging over archives buff (prototypable cursed rounds)

Yea what they've shown off definitely made me insanely happy overall but I'm also the guy who mainly just cared about the slingshot to begin with.

7 minutes ago, Tarnishedmax said:

the issue with thulecite rounds is that they need a bunch of min maxing to work properly and despite being his highest single damage possible this was only really true with bosses, and with bosses you could just use melee weapons instead so this just makes the slingshot a subpar weapon still, gunpowder rounds had the utility of not needing anything else to work making them really useful for day to day tasks such as killing smaller mobs or extremely agile mobs that you couldnt just keep in a straight line like the ink blight trio, also a lot of enemies are inmune to icky rounds making the thulecite rounds kinda harder to use for too little damage when again you could just wack stuff with a club for the exact same effect, hitting something with a slowing round makes it easier to actually fight with melee weapons so again they kinda just become redundant unless you really want to never let go of the slingshot

 

to be fair depending on how well the slowdown rounds work this might be a good enough solution since unlike honey which is too short they last 30 seconds at a time

12 minutes ago, Pruinae said:

I don't know the new numbers in the Dreadstone Rounds, but before the damage buff it got, Thulecite Rounds were better single target DPS when combined with Icky Rounds' slow.

Considering they now made so you can permanently learn the recipe for the Thulecite Rounds (after you've made them once ofc), and how dreadstone is hard to come by early on, Thulecite Rounds were, and most likely still are, the main single target DPS rounds early game.

They mentioned making pure horror rounds that deal a DoT effect (that stacks 3 times), those are probably going to be the late game single target DPS ammo.

It's a strange toss up really gunpowder rounds were the best rounds for standard use if you didn't want to put in the extra work but cursed rounds are definitely stronger than them if you add slowdown into the mix giving that role to dreadstone even if it's stronger than what gunpowder was means that in a multiplayer setting likely only 1 Walter will really be able to use that as a ammo source in most games without gem duping pretty much meaning glass will likely end up as the primary round for most situations now with cursed being reserved for high hp mobs.

Basically in order to give dreadstone a leg up it feels like they ended up harming early game round variety. (Also please do not try to solve this by nerfing glass rounds this will not help the situation...)

[Tarnishedmax]

10 minutes ago, Primalflower said:

im just sitting here pogging over archives buff (prototypable cursed rounds)

im really enjoying some of these changes, again this is not a fully negative post but some of these changes are kinda concerning and i feel like that they to be pointed out.

10 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Honestly this one is particularly strange to me I didn't really bring it up because I'm not in the mind of a new player but it's existence begs quite a few questions like why would a new player pick this over faster fire rate or how would a new player or casual player end up in a situation where it's usable and they aren't already dead in the rain scenario they have to be intentionally keeping themselves alive despite being wet without taking measures to dry off and have planned ahead of time enough that they had this equipped over fire rate. In the boss scenario they would be preparing for having gotten hit instead of lowering their odds of getting hit.

IM SAYING LIKE, ITS GENUINELY SUCH A POINTLESS ITEM NO MATTER WHERE YOU SEE IT FROM

 

 

[Mysterious box]

On a aside I'm hype to see how the aoe freeze and slowdown rounds end up looking but I do kinda wish we'd also get a aoe upgrade to poop pellets as well.

13 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Honestly this one is particularly strange to me I didn't really bring it up because I'm not in the mind of a new player but it's existence begs quite a few questions like why would a new player pick this over faster fire rate or how would a new player or casual player end up in a situation where it's usable and they aren't already dead in the rain scenario they have to be intentionally keeping themselves alive despite being wet without taking measures to dry off and have planned ahead of time enough that they had this equipped over fire rate. In the boss scenario they would be preparing for having gotten hit instead of lowering their odds of getting hit.

Actually thinking more on this Walter still has his portable tent which will dry him off when it's raining making the rain scenario even more confusing... 

[Pruinae]

23 minutes ago, Tarnishedmax said:

the issue with thulecite rounds is that they need a bunch of min maxing to work properly and despite being his highest single damage possible this was only really true with bosses, and with bosses you could just use melee weapons instead so this just makes the slingshot a subpar weapon still, gunpowder rounds had the utility of not needing anything else to work making them really useful for day to day tasks such as killing smaller mobs or extremely agile mobs that you couldnt just keep in a straight line like the ink blight trio, also a lot of enemies are inmune to icky rounds making the thulecite rounds kinda harder to use for too little damage when again you could just wack stuff with a club for the exact same effect, hitting something with a slowing round makes it easier to actually fight with melee weapons so again they kinda just become redundant unless you really want to never let go of the slingshot

I think it's slightly too early to talk about the rounds, knowing that the next hotfix tuning the slingshot will come tomorrow. We don't know how the RNG from the gunpowder rounds work yet, and don't know the numbers in the dreadstone and pure horror rounds. 

I mostly just wanted to address your single target DPS concern by talking about the pure horror rounds, even though that option is mostly late game oriented.

I personally think it's reasonable for the slingshot to never reach the same amount of DPS as melee (especially if you take animation cancelling into consideration). I wouldn't know how big the difference should be though. How long do you think the slingshot's time-to-kill should be compared to melee weapons?

[Well-met]

just replace sticky grip with faster wind-up

[Left 4 Sharkb8]

I know why they changed the ammo, but I really figured it would be 15 ammo per craft base and one skill point to double that to 30 ammo per craft. I have no idea why you dump two whole points into just getting 10 more. It makes absolutely no sense at all. If the second point was for something like an ammo bag, like you suggested, that would be fine.

I don't have any issue with the taming skills, but the Sticky Handle bothers me so much. Having to dump that extra point in a skill that might as well be completely useless just sucks a ton. 

 

I feel like, in my opinion, the tree needs just a few tweaks to be perfect.

 

[kroban]

49 minutes ago, Pruinae said:

I personally think it's reasonable for the slingshot to never reach the same amount of DPS as melee (especially if you take animation cancelling into consideration). I wouldn't know how big the difference should be though. How long do you think the slingshot's time-to-kill should be compared to melee weapons?

I think it should be a bit more time consuming than melee, but the current slingshot still lacks a lot of dps. Atleast from the "humble" testing I did (dps mod, hitting on a static target with darksword and then gunpowder ammo) , even while kiting a lot as melee you are still doing way more dps than the slingshot with the current gunpowder. I dont remember the exact numbers but it was something like, darksword hitting for 130 dps while slingshot with void tape at best hit 95 dps on completely statics target and Walter.

[Mr Giggio]

1 hour ago, Tarnishedmax said:

Walter skill tree before the stream was already pretty good despite needing some work but some of these changes are genuinely just, pointless and borderline nerfs.

Its not even here and u guys already assuming stuff. Pure horror will be a DoT that can stack effect thrice. Pls be more patient or more smart about the assumptions.

[Mysterious box]

1 hour ago, Pruinae said:

(especially if you take animation cancelling into consideration)

I feel like this should never be part of the balance discussion as most people are never going to use this or just can't

[Soul7k]

you say sticky was bad, but when i was testing the charged shot in the rain i was dropping my sling almost every shot

[Tarnishedmax]

 

13 minutes ago, Soul7k said:

you say sticky was bad, but when i was testing the charged shot in the rain i was dropping my sling almost every shot

Have you tried not getting wet

[Soul7k]

3 minutes ago, Tarnishedmax said:

 

Have you tried not getting wet

bruh. let me just give up my hand slot for 75 rain reduction but cannot attack or my headslot which is usually my armor for 25,75, or 100, then give up my backpack for armor so i don't get slapped. Be reasonable

[Picklesaurus]

16 minutes ago, Soul7k said:

bruh

He is right tho, it feels like the Weregoose not getting wet skill tree talent, useless.

[Soul7k]

Just now, Picklesaurus said:

He is right tho, it feels like the Weregoose not getting wet talent skill, useless.

 

8 minutes ago, Soul7k said:

bruh. let me just give up my hand slot for 75 rain reduction but cannot attack or my headslot which is usually my armor for 25,75, or 100, then give up my backpack for armor so i don't get slapped. Be reasonable

edited

[Tarnishedmax]

9 minutes ago, Soul7k said:

bruh. let me just give up my hand slot for 75 rain reduction but cannot attack or my headslot which is usually my armor for 25,75, or 100, then give up my backpack for armor so i don't get slapped. Be reasonable

You are using a ranged weapon, you can give up your head slot for rain protection, and even if you couldnt you have  to stand under heavy rain for like 2 minutes before the thing even starts to get wet enough for it to slip, at this point if you are struggling this much with wetness the slingshot slipping from your hands is the least of your concerns, its a pointless skill to give a character that doesnt have anything related to wetness or rain or spring, im not saying its completely useless because no, of course it has some technical uses but is it really worth a whole skill point and a whole slingshot slot just for a couple of scenarios??? its like if you gave Wendy a second garland that instead of giving sanity it just cut sanity auras in half, would it be "useful"? yeah, is it just pointless? also yeah.

[kroban]

10 minutes ago, Soul7k said:

bruh. let me just give up my hand slot for 75 rain reduction but cannot attack or my headslot which is usually my armor for 25,75, or 100, then give up my backpack for armor so i don't get slapped. Be reasonable

You be reasonable my bro, why would you pick the sticky handle over faster shooting and dps with silk tape? Sticky handle is useless, the only reason you would use that is for 1 season, wetness isnt good for any character other than Wurt, idk why would you even want to fight with 100 wetness as Walter when you could start losing a **** ton of sanity out of freezing.

[Soul7k]

5 minutes ago, kroban said:

You be reasonable my bro, why would you pick the sticky handle over faster shooting and dps with silk tape? Sticky handle is useless, the only reason you would use that is for 1 season, wetness isnt good for any character other than Wurt, idk why would you even want to fight with 100 wetness as Walter when you could start losing a **** ton of sanity out of freezing.

I feel like I gave a pretty good reason and you don't need 100 wetness for everything in your inventory to get wet it starts earlier and rain happens for more than one season. But ok

[Tarnishedmax]

1 minute ago, Soul7k said:

I feel like I gave a pretty good reason and you don't need 100 wetness for everything in your inventory to get wet it starts at like one and rain happens for more than one season. But ok

Dude how many rains are you on the point you get 100 wetness on every season, i think you might have bigger problems than your slingshot slipping

[kroban]

7 minutes ago, Soul7k said:

I feel like I gave a pretty good reason and you don't need 100 wetness for everything in your inventory to get wet it starts earlier and rain happens for more than one season. But ok

Theres a guy that plays on permarain and even he agreed that the sticky handle is trash when I made a post complaining about it, the only character with whom you would want to pile up wetness is Wurt, for every other character theres no reason to let that **** get over 20