Wortox Mains, How we feeling so far?

[Y0sH]

I'm not gonna lie, it looked a little grim in the first half with the 5 soul bottles needed before the update. The Knabsack not being well received etc...

While in a better place now, I think Wortox's skilltree still needs a little more tlc and it'll be great. The decrease of soul jars needed for Knabsack damage and other tweaks definitely moved the skilltree in the right direction. I think a little more utility added to the panflute skill is needed and I'm sure it's coming. I personally would like a more expensive but repairable with souls Knabsack but I won't die if it's not implemented.

All in all I think they tackled Wortox's main issue and that's was his inability to carry more souls (without having stacked bees/bulbus bugs in the inv). I think a lot of us would've been satisfied with the soul jars alone.

I'm certain that this is extremely stressful time for the Devs with adding skilltrees to the most played character (Wendy) and a character with one of the most requested skilltrees (Waltuh) and I just want to say you guys are doing an AMAZING job!!!! THANKS KLEI!!

[Dingle]

I like the changes so far! Mostly waiting on some things: A rework to Neutral, the alignment scales, teleporting on a beef, teleporting while carrying something heavy, and adding a net function to the knabsack.

Also I'm hoping for some change to message in a bottle hunting. The system as it stands annoys me. Too RNG, too much mouse scrolling my zoom into the clouds. The knabsack is quite bad at 1 soul jar.

[WM2MIL]

Used to be a Wortox main, but I no longer am since the Winona skill tree update. Overall I share the same sentiment you have, what diverges is that I would like to see the Knabsack being a tool of sorts instead of a weapon, and his Nice/Naughty paths be more impactful instead of a 5 point change I also think that should be his alignment options instead of Lunar/Shadow. His Nice path of the skill tree, the one that focuses on healing range and the healing pulse I find it a bit lacking, for example since you can grab skills from both naughty and nice paths at the same time why would I care about the healing pulse when I have tons of extra souls stored in my soul jars?

[Demigardenerner]

I really like the nice side be able to be a better support with increased healing revives and tp’s is amazing.im not to into the naughty side but soul jars are pretty great.

[kehun]

[Y0sH]

19 minutes ago, Dingle said:

Also I'm hoping for some change to message in a bottle hunting. The system as it stands annoys me. Too RNG, too much mouse scrolling my zoom into the clouds. The knabsack is quite bad at 1 soul jar.

Funny how you don't realize how RNG bottles are until you're actively looking for them. I think an overall increase in bottles would be nice. They're used a lot with Wormwoods too which with they're synergies (living logs and healing) incentivizes both of those characters in the same server better benefitting an increase in bottles.

19 minutes ago, WM2MIL said:

Used to be a Wortox main, but I no longer am since the Winona skill tree update. Overall I share the same sentiment you have, what diverges is that I would like to see the Knabsack being a tool of sorts instead of a weapon, and his Nice/Naughty paths be more impactful instead of a 5 point change I also think that should be his alignment options instead of Lunar/Shadow. His Nice path of the skill tree, the one that focuses on healing range and the healing pulse I find it a bit lacking, for example since you can grab skills from both naughty and nice paths at the same time why would I care about the healing pulse when I have tons of extra souls stored in my soul jars?

Yeah I see your point with the healing pulse skills lacking a little and I also see alot of people requesting a more utility focused Knabsack. I still would like him to have a dedicated weapon myself because he literally has to kill for his souls but it's only right for him to have some kind of synergy with his Krampus relation.

[Dingle]

10 minutes ago, Y0sH said:

Funny how you don't realize how RNG bottles are until you're actively looking for them. I think an overall increase in bottles would be nice. They're used a lot with Wormwoods too which with they're synergies (living logs and healing) incentivizes both of those characters in the same server better benefitting an increase in bottles.

Yeah I see your point with the healing pulse skills lacking a little and I also see alot of people requesting a more utility focused Knabsack. I still would like him to have a dedicated weapon myself because he literally has to kill for his souls but it's only right for him to have some kind of synergy with his Krampus relation.

Bottles are getting used more and more. Wormwood, Walter (icker), the Icker preservers, Crabby Hermit. I may be missing one.

If nothing else, theres a client mod that points out just-offscreen bottles. But I'd prefer some "base game" addressing of the bottles.

[mima_]

3 minutes ago, Dingle said:

Wormwood, Walter (icker), the Icker preservers

they use but it return the empty jar back after crafting so i dont think it will be much problem.

[Dingle]

1 minute ago, mima_ said:

they use but it return the empty jar back after crafting so i dont think it will be much problem.

They'll want the spare bottles for using again, though. Not one-and-done.

[Echsrick]

there sould have been 2 seperate skills, one to just increase soul limit by 5, with maybe an upgrate, and the soul jar being a placeable structure instead were you can store souls you dont need at the momend and take what you need, and no leaking, but the real thing, if i can only 1 thing, then i wish to change this upcomming thing i will talk about now

knapsack....its bad, DONT make it a weapon, instead make it a special tool, like "bugnet+" that can kidNAP up to medium sized creatures that you could never done so before like pigs and baby beefalo and maybe some other objects like suspicous marble, planted flowers so you actualy just place them, gravestones, maybe other like buildable structures, like it would fit way more with the description of "wortox was with krampus alot so he makes his own stealing sack" and just thematicaly way more fitting aswell instead of it being a boring weapon that he dont even need, he allready gets his souls to be able to do damage

[Hollow soul 3]

I feel like the twintale heart and lifted spirits 2 should be combine. It's more expensive than a telltale, and the telltale crafting materials will always be in your inventory. I would like to see the twintale be better than it at base level. If not, maybe lifted spirits 2 could replace lifebringer 2 (useless perk)

^[I was wrong about this, it looks pretty good on the left]

I really like reverberation, but it has a lot of prerequisites. If you're picking this up, you'll need lifted spirits 1 (that hurts his soul damage), and lifted spirits 2. If you don't want lifted spirits 2 to be a waste, you have to dip into the twintale. If you're playing solo and want this, you still have to invest in some skills that you just won't use.

Capricious movement is a easy skip for me. It requires a lot of perks and setup to discount the teleport cost. Just get some of the combat skills to make soul farming faster. It does the same job better.

 

Naughty side, I would like to see the weapon have a little higher utility, and a new way to use the pocketed souls. The tweaks made more builds possible, so I'm mostly happy with this side. I just feel like once they hit your inventory, with the reduction on healing, they lose a lot of their value. You can farm them fast, but it's only food and teleporting once it hits your inventory.

I think if the weapon absorbed dropped souls to charge for a stronger attack, that could be cool

[Y0sH]

1 hour ago, Echsrick said:

knapsack....its bad, DONT make it a weapon, instead make it a special tool, like "bugnet+" that can kidNAP up to medium sized creatures that you could never done so before like pigs and baby beefalo and maybe some other objects like suspicous marble, planted flowers so you actualy just place them, gravestones, maybe other like buildable structures, like it would fit way more with the description of "wortox was with krampus alot so he makes his own stealing sack" and just thematicaly way more fitting aswell instead of it being a boring weapon that he dont even need, he allready gets his souls to be able to do damage

I've seen you post this over 10 times in other posts and I ask what would the utility be for Kidnapping Pigs or Baby Beefalos or Plantable flowers? Pigs are hostile towards you if you took them out your inv I'd assume it'll just be hostile meaning you have to kill it or leave it. But you can just make a pig house if you wanted to move it for some reason, same thing with Beefalos. Make a bell, link it and take the beefalo to anywhere on the map and leave it, few seasons pass and you have a heard wherever. You want Plantable flowers? Just go catch butterflies and place them. I'm confused on what kidnapping small mobs do that you can't already. If you want them to be put in your inventory to kill them then that's just extra steps to get a soul.

[Hyuyu]

its looking all good, just waiting for the neutral changes and scale tweaks

[Y0sH]

1 hour ago, Hollow soul 3 said:

I think if the weapon absorbed dropped souls to charge for a stronger attack, that could be cool

I totally agree here, I really wish he'd be able to prime his weapon or other weapons with a number of souls for an enhanced or "critical hit" move. 

[Baguettes]

Knabsack is what now? I've been enjoying it tho! Still gonna wait for more dev updates, everything looks promising so far.

[Y0sH]

1 minute ago, Baguettes said:

Knabsack is what now? I've been enjoying it tho! Still gonna wait for more dev updates, everything looks promising so far.

I think the Knabsack is in a much better place but I for the life of me don't understand them taking the planar aspect away.

[maroonamanita]

It's pretty rad tbh, I was a huge downer when it first came out it seemed really lame. I have grown to like it though. I pretty much have the same gripes everyone else does knabsack kinda sucks animation wise and damage wise, and the neutral skills are really underwhelming and are pretty much a never pick. I really like the naughty and nice system I just wish the "voice" lines were better. also here is my current skill tree

 

I have been playing a lot in servers, but if I played solo I would drop the twin tailed heart skills for the clones.

[Hollow soul 3]

41 minutes ago, Y0sH said:

I've seen you post this over 10 times in other posts and I ask what would the utility be for Kidnapping Pigs or Baby Beefalos or Plantable flowers? Pigs are hostile towards you if you took them out your inv I'd assume it'll just be hostile meaning you have to kill it or leave it. But you can just make a pig house if you wanted to move it for some reason, same thing with Beefalos. Make a bell, link it and take the beefalo to anywhere on the map and leave it, few seasons pass and you have a heard wherever. You want Plantable flowers? Just go catch butterflies and place them. I'm confused on what kidnapping small mobs do that you can't already. If you want them to be put in your inventory to kill them then that's just extra steps to get a soul.

It doesn't have to be good to be fun. If it's not overpowered, what's the harm. It would be interesting. The utility on it right now is handy, but it's not really adding fun.

[Echsrick]

58 minutes ago, Y0sH said:

I've seen you post this over 10 times in other posts and I ask what would the utility be for Kidnapping Pigs or Baby Beefalos or Plantable flowers? Pigs are hostile towards you if you took them out your inv I'd assume it'll just be hostile meaning you have to kill it or leave it. But you can just make a pig house if you wanted to move it for some reason, same thing with Beefalos. Make a bell, link it and take the beefalo to anywhere on the map and leave it, few seasons pass and you have a heard wherever. You want Plantable flowers? Just go catch butterflies and place them. I'm confused on what kidnapping small mobs do that you can't already. If you want them to be put in your inventory to kill them then that's just extra steps to get a soul.

it could be made so that released creatures are scared of wortox for a while so pigs wont attack you for like about 10 seconds, you could make it so you kidnap some pigs and release them in front of a boss or something, and because there scared of wortox and wont attack him first they will aggro onto the boss or what ever else it is

[Hollow soul 3]

12 minutes ago, Echsrick said:

it could be made so that released creatures are scared of wortox for a while so pigs wont attack you for like about 10 seconds, you could make it so you kidnap some pigs and release them in front of a boss or something, and because there scared of wortox and wont attack him first they will aggro onto the boss or what ever else it is

Or even if they're confused or dazed. Teleport in, drop friends, teleport away. Im more in support of catching bugs, rabbits, moles, GRASS GECKOS (if this hurts grass geckos, it makes it less useful to pick up their loot with the tool), birds, and other small creatures.

[Sikers]

I still waiting for inclination changes and I'm not fan of his shadow alignment, I think it should work with more wepaons, like Knabsack or atleast with Shadow Maul, if they really want to keep it as end game only, but other then that, I like it alot 

[Dingle]

12 minutes ago, Hollow soul 3 said:

Or even if they're confused or dazed. Teleport in, drop friends, teleport away. Im more in support of catching bugs, rabbits, moles, GRASS GECKOS (if this hurts grass geckos, it makes it less useful to pick up their loot with the tool), birds, and other small creatures.

I posted the same thing early on. Being able to catch small animals would be amazing.

[Hollow soul 3]

The obvious reason not to, would be that it could be abused to catch bugs and kill bosses fast, but we can still do that with the net. It's not an effective method of preventing this. I think giving the bosses blast resistance to the soul damage fixed that though. Maybe since it's a weapon, it doesn't have a way to not do damage against mobs?

[Dingle]

Bug nets are a weapon too. I've accidentally attacked butterflies instead of catching them, haha.

The blast resistance fixed it against bosses. It would still be a fun toy to have, though.

[twitchgabo]

I only liked the improvement of soul hoping throughout the map and the double echo.

The nice/naughty "balance" thing is very cool, but the perks are pretty underwhelming.

If Klei listens to the community there is a good chance that the nice balance perk will include Wortox not to be targeted by  Pigs and Bunnyman. However, I can already see an issue there because most of the nice section is filled with unappealing skills (the only good ones are the soul hop improvement). 

The other nice section of talents have almost no useful implications: 

The whole more healing from souls column is not desirable since he already heals for a good amount of hp

The improved revive heart thing is kinda nice, but it is a multiplayer feature (a lot of people like to play the game solo)

 

Now... looking to the naughty side:

The knabsack has a TERRIBLE mechanic/execution:

- It "forces" you to have your slots full which is a nuisance, for the benefit of a Dark Sword damage.

- The "steal items on the floor" action is tied with the spacebar action, where sometimes when you just want to pick stuff on the floor by pressing spacebar, you waste the knabsack because u forgot not to press the spacebar to pick a single item on the floor.

 

The soul jar stacking thing is also a very unattractive idea. It gets worse since we have to stack soul jars AND items to improve the knabsack damage

 

 

So, I think there are still a lot of things to rework in his ST.