Day 1 Vibe Check On the new skill trees.

[WenericMember]

Now that everyone's got to work with the skill tree's a bit, I'm curious of how much people think need to be done with the skill trees.

Personally, Walter's is in a good state right now.

Wortox needs reworks from what I've seen.

Wendy's tree has an overall strong design, but it needs a few more skills to promote diversity rework of the potion line, and buffs to a fair number of skills.

[Evelo]

I like how minor most of Wendy's skill are. Well besides a few major ones. Minor bonuses are what I want. Skill sets shouldn't be a re-refresh in my opinion.

[Canoki]

I would like to express my opinion about the Wendy skill tree this time, I don't know if most players have the same opinion as me, if the opinion is rough, I hope to receive a thumbs up from you.
First of all, I'm a heavy player of Don't Starve Together, all the way from the 2012 piracy famine to the time I was exposed to Steam to buy genuine and online versions and official merch directly.
First of all, the skill tree is created to make the game more vibrant, to balance the strength of each character, and to be more accurate about the division of labor and cooperation between each character, so as to achieve the purpose of unity and playing together. However, this purpose is clearly contradictory to the player's aspirations.
You can't guarantee that there are so many players who can choose different characters in batches, and most players, similar to me, play one character all the time, for no other reason, just because they like it, or rather, because of feelings. I can clearly say that even if the other characters are strengthened, I will not play, I will always play Wendy, which I like. But if my favorite character becomes weak and unappreciated during the update, I will be very disgusted, because it will undoubtedly sacrifice my gaming experience, and if I sacrifice the gameplay experience of each different character player for the sake of balancing the strength of each character, I think it is wrong and will damage the vitality of the game. The enhancement of each character, or the skill tree, is best designed by that part of the player, because as I said above, in fact, each character has a suitable nature, each player has their favorite character, and will always choose it, and the balance of the character in my opinion, except for the comparison with the boss of the game itself, everything else is meaningless. Because this does not mean anything other than bringing more choices to new players, it does not mean anything to the selection rate of unpopular characters. I dare to say that if you give characters such as Winona a better look, or even surpass Wendy's skin, then her selection rate will inevitably skyrocket, in fact, Wendy itself is not strong, but because of its unique nature and beauty, it is very popular with novices and veteran players. If you look closely at any previous update of the character skill tree, there will be more or less doubts, because the player's demands do not match the skill tree, which will inevitably lead to some players being forced to choose the character they don't like, this behavior makes the player very uncomfortable, so that I don't like this game, like I said, if it is to balance the character at the expense of the player, I think it is very undesirable, the skill tree itself I think is more about strengthening, for the sake of that part of the player to have a better game experience, please don't put the cart before the horse.

[Gashzer]

Woby skills need a serious looking into to. 

Be nice if someone could hit us with some data mined facts for all woby badges? 

Walter's base kit needs a slight update, camper tent should heal sanity at a rate of 2 per sec. Could remove a couple excessive slingshot round skills like the stinger/dreadstone rounds for skills to upgrade his pinecone hat/camper tent/camp-fire stories.

[WenericMember]

I think one of the main issues with Wendy's skill tree is that she only has 21 Skills when factoring in alignment. That means that, as the potion branch is pretty much useless, there's a grand total of 3 skills that you need to miss out on for Wendy's skill tree.

On top of that, with no locks on her skill tree other than alignment, It doesn't really feel like you're choosing skills. Idk.

Congrats to Walter for 50% Good as is, and of for 1/3 of people wanting a rework from the ground up. Obviously things might change tho.

Interesting that wortox is more mixed.

I just hope that since Walter seems to be recieved well, the other two get more attention for the rest of the beta, because they need it.

[Maxil20]

I’m thankful for Wendy’s skill tree if only because it allowed me to clear out the tombstones I have had in the center of my base for IRL years (for context, I initially based in the mandrake forest, so the resulting area had quite a few of them)

The skilltrees are certainly rough around the edges, but I’m 99.9% positive they are going to adjust the trees before the beta is exited in a way that makes most people happy. It certainly isn’t a scenario where it’s the end of the world, and the first patch shows they are more than willing to make solid adjustments. I just hope the barrage of posts won’t be too difficult to sort through for constructive feedback for the team…

[Gashzer]

5 minutes ago, WenericMember said:

I just hope that since Walter seems to be recieved well, the other two get more attention for the rest of the beta, because they need it.

Walter isn't received well by the people who main him. It's very easy to make the slingshot great and viable: increase ammo made, rounds stored in slingshot and firerate. That's all they done, very barebones. Because it's easy to just dedicate the majority of the skilltree to his slingshot and call it a day so thats exactly what they did.

What wasn't easy was making woby viable as a competitive mount verses using a beefalo and for woby to be Walters primary partner during early and late game. Klei has failed in doing both.

Walter had so much potential to be more than just a ranged weapon user. I main Walter for woby, his immunity to insanity drain and his camper tent, not his slingshot. 

[Cheggf]

I like there being options for saying things need buffs but not things need nerfs lol

[WenericMember]

3 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

I like there being options for saying things need buffs but not things need nerfs lol

Fair enough, I'll probably do another poll in a few days once another patch and more opinions have formed with more options..

[WenericMember]

56 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

Walter isn't received well by the people who main him. It's very easy to make the slingshot great and viable: increase ammo made, rounds stored in slingshot and firerate. That's all they done, very barebones. Because it's easy to just dedicate the majority of the skilltree to his slingshot and call it a day so thats exactly what they did.

What wasn't easy was making woby viable as a competitive mount verses using a beefalo and for woby to be Walters primary partner during early and late game. Klei has failed in doing both.

Walter had so much potential to be more than just a ranged weapon user. I main Walter for woby, his immunity to insanity drain and his camper tent, not his slingshot. 

Fair enough, but Klei has to be doing something right if they have more than 50% of people satisfied at the start of the beta, as Opposed to Wortox on 35% and Wendy on 10%. Obviously he could still have room for improvement though.

[Kwaik]

1 minute ago, WenericMember said:

Fair enough, but Klei has to be doing something right if they have more than 50% of people satisfied at the start of the beta, as Opposed to Wortox on 35% and Wendy on 10%. Obviously he could still have room for improvement though.

I think the poster has to keep in mind is that the goal of skill trees is to freshen characters up, rebalance them, and make them funner/more approachable to a broader audience. 

 

I can get that long time Walter players might not be thrilled, but for the 99% of players who rarely/never play him at least now he's kind of interesting to check out. 

 

I have no idea how the Wortox one got 35%. It's insanely bad and does virtually nothing for the character 

 

The Wendy one is bad too, but she's also damn OP and everyone admits her skill tree stinks 

 

(I also think the poll was messed up, as Wortox didn't allow you to pick multiple options, the other two did, so his results will likely be uniquely skewed) 

[Gashzer]

10 minutes ago, WenericMember said:

Fair enough, but Klei has to be doing something right if they have more than 50% of people satisfied at the start of the beta, as Opposed to Wortox on 35% and Wendy on 10%. Obviously he could still have room for improvement though.

The slingshot does feel really good to use now but it was always an easy fix.

But Woby is as important to Walter as abigail is to Wendy or bernie is to willow so more work is needed on her.

From my brief testing on Wendy she seems in a really good state. Don't know what people's complaints are about. Gestalt abigail with dark petal armour makes Wendy a boss killer now without needing a beefalo for damage. It's easy to stock up in morning glory for health regen and damage boosts with boosted pipspook skills.

I guess it's the same situation as to why people think Walter's skilltree is ok when I think its not.  As not a Wendy main myself her skills seem very good.

[WenericMember]

4 minutes ago, Kwaik said:

I think the poster has to keep in mind is that the goal of skill trees is to freshen characters up, rebalance them, and make them funner/more approachable to a broader audience. 

 

I can get that long time Walter players might not be thrilled, but for the 99% of players who rarely/never play him at least now he's kind of interesting to check out. 

 

I have no idea how the Wortox one got 35%. It's insanely bad and does virtually nothing for the character 

 

The Wendy one is bad too, but she's also damn OP and everyone admits her skill tree stinks 

 

(I also think the poll was messed up, as Wortox didn't allow you to pick multiple options, the other two did, so his results will likely be uniquely skewed) 

Oh oop, mb. I'll probably try again tomorrow lol.

I think the thing about Wortox is it

1. Has a central mechanic in the nautiness system, which is something unique to him
2. Has an increased soul cap which fundamentally helps the core issue of his base character

So even if other aspects of his tree fall flat, Wortox at least has that basis to fall back on.

[Kwaik]

3 minutes ago, WenericMember said:

Oh oop, mb. I'll probably try again tomorrow lol.

I think the thing about Wortox is it

1. Has a central mechanic in the nautiness system, which is something unique to him
2. Has an increased soul cap which fundamentally helps the core issue of his base character

So even if other aspects of his tree fall flat, Wortox at least has that basis to fall back on.

The naughtiness mechanic doesn't do crap though. 

 

It doesn't substantially or uniquely alter his playstyle 

 

As a concept sure. It's a solid concept.  But the current implementation makes it 100% meaningless to gameplay 

I'm not really sure that increasing his soul cap which was a given us enoguh to declare it a success. 

I'd argue that I'd rather have increased options to farm/acquire souls to cut out some of the tedious aspects later on 

[WenericMember]

10 minutes ago, Kwaik said:

The naughtiness mechanic doesn't do crap though. 

 

It doesn't substantially or uniquely alter his playstyle 

 

As a concept sure. It's a solid concept.  But the current implementation makes it 100% meaningless to gameplay 

I'm not really sure that increasing his soul cap which was a given us enoguh to declare it a success. 

I'd argue that I'd rather have increased options to farm/acquire souls to cut out some of the tedious aspects later on 

I don't particularly disagree, I don't mind much about what happens to his tree in the end as long as we got the increased soul cap, so I've been more invested in Wendy's skill tree. I was just speaking from an outside perspective. Personally I said he needed a rework based on feedback I've heard.

17 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

The slingshot does feel really good to use now but it was always an easy fix.

But Woby is as important to Walter as abigail is to Wendy or bernie is to willow so more work is needed on her.

From my brief testing on Wendy she seems in a really good state. Don't know what people's complaints are about. Gestalt abigail with dark petal armour makes Wendy a boss killer now without needing a beefalo for damage. It's easy to stock up in morning glory for health regen and damage boosts with boosted pipspook skills.

I guess it's the same situation as to why people think Walter's skilltree is ok when I think its not.  As not a Wendy main myself her skills seem very good.

Yeah pretty much. If you consider that "Woby" and "Slingshot" were the two core things that Walter's skill tree needed to fix, "Utility" and "Abigail getting owned by AOE"  were Wendy's. Without Abigail, Wendy's only real unique kit was a decreased sanity drain. And unlike Walters fixing one of the two major issues pretty much completely and taking steps towards the other, Wendy... didn't really get anything. The shroud isn't helpful when Abi immediately gets annihilated by a bosses AOE, and the utility she gained was pretty niche - Evil Petals (only usable for NF), vengeful ghost (a fun ability with limited use) and giving sanity drain reduction to allies (good, but uninteresting). Gesalt Abi is good, but its a singular Alignment skill (whose counterpart is practically useless), with a harsh drawback (being a comittment for ~15 days, and losing access to AOE Abi) locked behind a condition a good portion of players will never experience.

Personally, the most common suggestion I've seen for Wendy is to let her inflict haunt, which at the very least goes a long way to giving her unique utility that a lot of other characters don't often make use of.

[AliceMagtron]

7 hours ago, WenericMember said:

Wendy's tree has an overall strong design, but it needs a few more skills to promote diversity rework of the potion line, and buffs to a fair number of skills.

which skill makes u say that? Wendy skill tree is totally a failure which must be designed by someone who never played wendy, or even didnt play much DST.

1. Pls tell me how many evil flowers naturally spawn in your savedata. Yes, u will never count cause its useless and rare compared to normal flowers. if u really need evil flowers e.g. recover sansity with hivehat, u have to make them by yourself. So, why u design a skill to make petal from evil petals? Is petal a thing that rarely to get or can make anything very useful so u must waste 20 sansity and a mourning glory? which nobody will use it. 

2. Since Abigail can only active 1 potion effect at the same time. Pls tell me who need tripling hp recover for 2 days since u can already auto recover 480hp in 1 day, or which monster u need 2 days 1s shield or 20 dmg counter attack to beat? Thast means this extra duration is mostly wasted, so u have another 3 useless skills. and +take wendy to sisturn to recover, thats 4 useless skills.

3. When Wendy join a boss fight, mostly u need to take dmg to let abi alive to get atk bonus, So Why this cloth which let abi take dmg exist? What, u say u can eat food to recover abi's hp?did u ever played wendy? dont u know she has a potion that recover 20hp every second for 30s? also abi cant waer any armor, and take double dmg since shes not a player, which means even a dragonpie cant afford a single atk from boss. which means hp regen food on yourself is 10 times better on abi. also this cloth need an armor slot to effect, so why not just wear an armor and take dmg for abi? Additionly it needs 20 evil petals to make, which means u need much times to build extra tombstones to make it. Oh u ask me why only think about boss fight? Of course its because minion monsters never could kill abi, again. its also same for the shadow line, thats redicurious. so, heres another useless skill.

4.u can build a tombstone on skull or replace and decorate them to get a 200hp 15AOE dps reinforcements. u need 1 resurrection materials to build a skull at where u want to. Another good way to waste rubes hmm? and its another thing very disrespect the deceased, if thats good for him, i strongly recommand to add Jesons skull as a easter egg in game, so we can build a tombstone for Jeson and dig it then replace anywhere, then let evil flower grow by Jeson's flesh, cause theres something evil is buried here, only evil flower can grow.

more than half of skills from this skill tree is useless, how could u say thats an overall strong design? did u ever played wendy before? have u ever solo killed all bosses with wendy and without trick and mods before?

[WenericMember]

5 hours ago, AliceMagtron said:

which skill makes u say that? Wendy skill tree is totally a failure which must be designed by someone who never played wendy, or even didnt play much DST.

1. Pls tell me how many evil flowers naturally spawn in your savedata. Yes, u will never count cause its useless and rare compared to normal flowers. if u really need evil flowers e.g. recover sansity with hivehat, u have to make them by yourself. So, why u design a skill to make petal from evil petals? Is petal a thing that rarely to get or can make anything very useful so u must waste 20 sansity and a mourning glory? which nobody will use it. 

2. Since Abigail can only active 1 potion effect at the same time. Pls tell me who need tripling hp recover for 2 days since u can already auto recover 480hp in 1 day, or which monster u need 2 days 1s shield or 20 dmg counter attack to beat? Thast means this extra duration is mostly wasted, so u have another 3 useless skills. and +take wendy to sisturn to recover, thats 4 useless skills.

3. When Wendy join a boss fight, mostly u need to take dmg to let abi alive to get atk bonus, So Why this cloth which let abi take dmg exist? What, u say u can eat food to recover abi's hp?did u ever played wendy? dont u know she has a potion that recover 20hp every second for 30s? also abi cant waer any armor, and take double dmg since shes not a player, which means even a dragonpie cant afford a single atk from boss. which means hp regen food on yourself is 10 times better on abi. also this cloth need an armor slot to effect, so why not just wear an armor and take dmg for abi? Additionly it needs 20 evil petals to make, which means u need much times to build extra tombstones to make it. Oh u ask me why only think about boss fight? Of course its because minion monsters never could kill abi, again. its also same for the shadow line, thats redicurious. so, heres another useless skill.

4.u can build a tombstone on skull or replace and decorate them to get a 200hp 15AOE dps reinforcements. u need 1 resurrection materials to build a skull at where u want to. Another good way to waste rubes hmm? and its another thing very disrespect the deceased, if thats good for him, i strongly recommand to add Jesons skull as a easter egg in game, so we can build a tombstone for Jeson and dig it then replace anywhere, then let evil flower grow by Jeson's flesh, cause theres something evil is buried here, only evil flower can grow.

more than half of skills from this skill tree is useless, how could u say thats an overall strong design? did u ever played wendy before? have u ever solo killed all bosses with wendy and without trick and mods before?

1. Except Wendy now has a skill that produces evil flowers (even if it is horrifically undertuned) which also fixes her relative struggles with gathering nightmare fuel. Its a new, in character synergy that fixes some of her weaknesses

2. Oh I absolutely agree the potion line is horrific, it needs a complete rework.

3. Dark Petals II is a weird skill because on one hand, tapping into Abigail's HP with Wendy is conceptually cool, it has far too many restrictions in the name of balance. I would also prefer this skill gets reworked, but its at least not useless in its current form.

4. Again, evil flowers grow by decorating graves

I would say a total of 4 of her skills are conceptually worthless in their current form (Potion + Pipspook 2) which is pretty bad all things considered, but not to the point where the whole thing has to be thrown out like people are saying.

[Mysterious box]

12 hours ago, WenericMember said:

I think one of the main issues with Wendy's skill tree is that she only has 21 Skills when factoring in alignment. That means that, as the potion branch is pretty much useless, there's a grand total of 3 skills that you need to miss out on for Wendy's skill tree.

On top of that, with no locks on her skill tree other than alignment, It doesn't really feel like you're choosing skills. Idk.

Congrats to Walter for 50% Good as is, and of for 1/3 of people wanting a rework from the ground up. Obviously things might change tho.

Interesting that wortox is more mixed.

I just hope that since Walter seems to be recieved well, the other two get more attention for the rest of the beta, because they need it.

Wendy's seems like a overreaction due to lack of information honestly and as far as Walter's goes his is unfinished so he's definitely going to see more changes.

[WenericMember]

5 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Wendy's seems like a overreaction due to lack of information honestly and as far as Walter's goes his is unfinished so he's definitely going to see more changes.

Couldn't disagree more. 1/2 of her skills are weak to being useless in practical scenario, 1/4 of them are conceptually poorly designed, and i'd say only 1/4 are actually good. Not to mention it doesn't fix her core issues of a lack of out of combat utility and poor performance against bosses with AOE.

[AliceMagtron]

1 hour ago, WenericMember said:

1. Except Wendy now has a skill that produces evil flowers (even if it is horrifically undertuned) which also fixes her relative struggles with gathering nightmare fuel. Its a new, in character synergy that fixes some of her weaknesses

2. Oh I absolutely agree the potion line is horrific, it needs a complete rework.

3. Dark Petals II is a weird skill because on one hand, tapping into Abigail's HP with Wendy is conceptually cool, it has far too many restrictions in the name of balance. I would also prefer this skill gets reworked, but its at least not useless in its current form.

4. Again, evil flowers grow by decorating graves

I would say a total of 4 of her skills are conceptually worthless in their current form (Potion + Pipspook 2) which is pretty bad all things considered, but not to the point where the whole thing has to be thrown out like people are saying.

1. look, the first thing u said already proved u never played wendy. why u think wendy has problem on collecting fuel? shes one of the easiest character to collect fuel by hunting shadow monkeys, just few mins u will get full set of fuel, and extra about double numbered banana, meat and beard. just run around to attract every monkeys nearby and active abi angry mod, so just 4 atks they will all die. this is the fastest way to farm fuel, u can do it as soon as u find ruin. that means about first 7~10 days u can already start farming. thats even faster than wanda.

2. u still didnt explain in your 3. why thats not totally useless. as i said, that little hp ragen wont help anything. only slow down your speed to kill boss, thats totally not cool. and most of times, u should take dmg for abigail and let her alive, this new cloth definitely works worse than the battle style nowadays.

3. again we dont know how fast evil flower will grow, and also the main problem is, those evil petal needed item is such useless, so why i need those evil flowers to craft normal petal or that useless cloth, if u give me something uesful to craft, i may agree at least those flowers from graves r not totally uesless.

[Dingle]

Polls like this are mostly just going to show that Wendy has the most players voting for her tbh.

[WenericMember]

7 minutes ago, AliceMagtron said:

1. look, the first thing u said already proved u never played wendy. why u think wendy has problem on collecting fuel? shes one of the easiest character to collect fuel by hunt shadow monkeys, just few mins u will get full set of fuel, and extra about double number banana, meat and beard. just run around to attract every monkeys nearby and active abi angry mod, so just 4 atks they will all die. this is the fastest way to farm fuel, u can do it as soon as u find ruin. that means about first 7~10 days u can already start farming. thats even faster than wanda.

2. u still didnt explain in your 3. why thats not totally useless. as i said, that little hp ragen wont help anything. only slow down your speed to kill boss, thats totally not cool. and most of times, u should take dmg for abigail and let her alive, this new cloth definitely works worth than the battle style nowadays.

3. again we dont know how fast evil flower will grow, and also the main problem is, those evil petal needed item is such useless, so why i need those evil flowers to craft normal petal or that useless cloth, if u give me something uesful to craft, i may agree at least those flowers from graves r not totally uesless.

1. I do play Wendy a fair bit, probably my most played characters. I'm talking about Early game/casual players who aren't ready to go the ruins, like the life giving amulet. There should be some skills for all kinds of players. I generally like preparing heavily before going to places like the ruins, so I usually don't get there in single player till Spring, or at least late Autumn.

2. Depends on your playstyle. I ultimately think the shroud is unhealthy and should be reworked, but it at least allows you to more easily facetank bosses to prevent them from targeting abigail, as the Abigail takes via you isn't mob damage and is reduced via armour. 

3. 2 per cycle currently, I agree its currently uselessly low, but the skill itself isn't conceptually useless at least.

As I've said often. Wendy's skill tree is currently horrifically week and needs immense buffs/new skills, but I don't think it needs to be entirely restarted.

[AliceMagtron]

1 hour ago, WenericMember said:

I would say a total of 4 of her skills are conceptually worthless in their current form (Potion + Pipspook 2) which is pretty bad all things considered, but not to the point where the whole thing has to be thrown out like people are saying.

i would say only only pipspook line and moon line is at least useful, those skills can double speed to get mourning glory, and moon line gives abi ability to dodge some boss atk and higher dmg, all others r useless, and also, why u think worthless thing shouldnt be thrown out, thats why trash bin exist.

[WenericMember]

1 minute ago, AliceMagtron said:

i would say only only pipspook line and moon line is at least useful, those skills can double speed to get mourning glory, and moon line gives abi ability to dodge some boss atk and higher dmg, all others r useless, and also, why u think worthless thing shouldnt be thrown out, thats why trash bin exist.

I've talked about why I think the grave skills & dark petals lives have potential with singificant buffs. I'd also say the sisturn skills, while mostly filler, are alright (again the tier 3 skill needs buffs though). FInally the command skills are fine. Dodge is quicker than unsummoning, the attack at skill is convenient in a pinch. Panics kinda meh though.

I think about 1/2 her skills need significant buffs, 1/4 need complete reworks and 1/4 are fine in their current state. Needs a lot, and I mean A LOT of changes, but not unsalvagable.

[AliceMagtron]

3 minutes ago, WenericMember said:

2. Depends on your playstyle. I ultimately think the shroud is unhealthy and should be reworked, but it at least allows you to more easily facetank bosses to prevent them from targeting abigail, as the Abigail takes via you isn't mob damage and is reduced via armour. 

yes but that cloth occupied armor slot, which means u cant use a lower armor/helmat to take half dmg for better armor/helmat, which means your crown or any other helmat will lose durability faster and u cant active full void or brightshade suit buff, which means u loss both dmg and plane def, for reword, u get some tiny hp regen for abi, thats definitely worthless.