okay but what if you just put the slingshot down

[A4FE]

Okay this isn't gonna be very well put together, so don't expect a compelling argument or anything; and that's not even what this is meant to be either, I've just been so put off by seeing so much discourse about Walter's slingshot when you aren't like, BOUND AT THE WAIST to it or anything? And this isn't like a "Hey stop making fun of Walter's slingshot!" thing, it's both sides, like why does all the discussion about Walter being "trash" or "some secret god pick" have to hinge on the slingshot? Do you think it's terrible? Then put it down and grab a hambat! Do you think it's incredible and use it in every scenario regardless of context? Then please put it down and grab a hambat!

This came to mind because I've been playing Walter recently, and the comparisons between him and a certain someone make the Shipwrecked part of my brain happy, but it's just so off-putting to see people slam Walter down, often solely because his slingshot is un-optimal (tbh i agree, that thing is clocked on birds and elephants and nothing else), and then see swathes of Walter apologists come in to tell you it's secretly great and his defining feature. Like let it be known I am NUMBER ONE PROPONENT OF PLAYING THE WAY YOU LIKE (ignore the hambat section), but seriously, you make that boy a tent, a tree, a surfboard dog, and nothing else, and you'd just have Walani an inoffensive early exploration character that pretends half their stats don't exist until they have to eat/sleep them back to full, and truthfully, slingless Walter would probably be a FAR less decisive character at that. 

I imagine this post will probably ruffle several peoples feathers, so know this isn't really meant to be an argumentative "y'all all walter-ing wrong" thing, nor did I write it with the intention of starting an online boxing match with anyone, but it's just so crazy looking on youtube, in the forums, any time Walter is mentioned the boy is both HUNG and RAISED FROM THE DEAD because people feel just so strongly about an item that I think REALLY doesn't/shouldn't define him.

anyways unhinged walter tangent over yall can go about your day now 

[Well-met]

his sanity mechanics discourage him from melee, and if you intend to do heavy melee then you really should just pick someone else.

people debate around his slingshot because its essentially his core. He was made as the first range-focused character in dont starve.

woby and the tent nonsense really are just filler.

[A4FE]

idk i like the tent for snoozing back stats
so thats pretty cool

OBLIGATORY "i admit this isn't the optimal speedrunner strategy to restore stats but i do it anyways "

 

ALRIGHT back again because i am no longer DRIVING a CAR, i wanted to clear up real quick that this isn't about making a statement on how walter should be tiered or how viable he is or anything, i just really wanted to make the point that if i said walani was a bad character, most people would go "yeah." and then go about their business, but the same is just not true for walter because of that sling methinks

like im pretty sure most people agree walter isnt a strong character by any metric, but you can play him anyways if you're chill with the sanity thing

like he's just inoffensively bad like walani if you take away the sling

[Bumber64]

Ignoring the slingshot means he just has one less thing going for him to counter the sanity downside, which was designed for ranged combat.

With proper ranged weapons available for all characters, his slingshot needs to actually become good for him to even reclaim where he was before.

[Theukon-dos]

Simple. It's because the Slingshot is half of Walter's character. 

 

You can play without it. And many do like you said. But if you do that, all you have left is some extra inventory space, a temu-brand beefalo, and very iffy sanity mechanics. Alojg with a handful of otherthings not worth mentioning. They're certainly not bad perks, but they don't stand out all that much, even without considering the rampant power creep the game's had sense Walter's introduction.

[DegenerateFurry]

If the best thing you can say about the core mechanic of a character is "well you don't have to use it", it's poorly balanced, poorly designed, or both.

[Catuna_]

walter's slingshot has curse of binding from the hit game minecraft it just never leaves his hand

jokes aside yeah i really don't get it, people act like its the core mechanic of the character when it's really kinda just another option the way it's made right now and it'll always be like that cause they're not just gonna make walter only be able to use ranged weapons or something

when it comes to talking about how good a character is i really dont get the point of bringing up bad items a character may have, and people love to over exaggerate about walter's sanity like he loses a flat 200 sanity from being stung my a mosquito
reality being is that walter will lose less sanity from most fights compared to others unless you're being excessively hit over and over again, which to be real, isn't something you want to happen on any character... otherwise he just pretty much never goes insane from day-to-day tasks until you want him to in my experience
the consensus that walter's bad because he is discouraged from melee and that his slingshot sucks so he's bad is kind of odd, like, yes you're technically worse at taking damage but in practice how much damage are you taking to go insane with proper armor, especially with armors like thulecite crown and night armor

"he's bad at bee queen" is like, i guess the fight takes a while with the slingshot, but at the same time you never take damage and it's an extremely safe fight
it strikes me as odd when people call it impractical seeing that his resource cost for it is extremely low compared to other characters, and that he can gather these materials as early as first autumn without an obscene amount of effort
a mix of cursed, marble and even gold rounds if you wanna, 5 monster meat, panflute (optional) and enough food for like 2-3 days and its fine considering that the bee queen crown is pretty good for fuelweaver and jellybeans are a must-have
or summon phase 2 twins on her idunno, i can agree that bee allergy's silly though

i'm not disagreeing that his kit could use buffs to match other characters in any capacity i just think that it's just extremely exaggerated how his sanity mechanics work, and his design is generally incorrectly critiqued to be "random" when... people just have never really taken a moment to play him and/or think about how his perks mesh (aside from bee allergy but random, or badly designed downsides are a thing with other characters excluding walter (hi woodie!!!))
 

[DegenerateFurry]

2 hours ago, Catuna_ said:

people act like its the core mechanic of the character when it's really kinda just another option

But it is one of Walter's core mechanics. This is like saying, "well you could just not use Abigail" or "the Codex Umbra is just another option". Sure, that is technically true, but at that point, aren't you just playing Wilson with a downside? 

[Catuna_]

4 minutes ago, DegenerateFurry said:

But it is one of Walter's core mechanics. This is like saying, "well you could just not use Abigail" or "the Codex Umbra is just another option". Sure, that is technically true, but at that point, aren't you just playing Wilson with a downside? 

We've had this conversation before so I don't wanna start it again or dwell on it but for me Walters just a more relaxing character with qol that makes the game feel better to play in a lot of ways from not passively losing sanity to having tons of inventory space to having really nice early game speed etc. I could play Maxwell as he is a strictly better char but the duelists and prison take a lot of fun out of the game for me

The slingshot just exists as a tool for me to cheese fuelweaver and sometimes fight bee queen or aggro mobs, more of utility than anything. Comparing it to Abigail is wrong because Wendy is punished for not having Abigail alive with what is imo the worst downside in the game while Walter isn't really punished for not using the slingshot 

I'm not opposed to buffing him but I don't mind his current simplicity in any form. Besides, he is silly.... Can't argue with silly... 

[A4FE]

@Catuna_ AMEN BETTER SAID THEN I EVER COULD OF

THREADS OVER EVERYBODY GO HOME

[aidankocherhans]

4 hours ago, DegenerateFurry said:

But it is one of Walter's core mechanics. This is like saying, "well you could just not use Abigail" or "the Codex Umbra is just another option". Sure, that is technically true, but at that point, aren't you just playing Wilson with a downside? 

A Wilson with a downside that is sometimes an upside, plus a bunch of bonuses that Wilson doesn't have. Wilson is supposed to be the baseline, so being similar in strength technically shouldn't be a bad thing, and he doesn't have his skill tree yet

[arubaro]

13 hours ago, Well-met said:

He was made as the first range-focused character in dont starve.

The main problem... making a character with a combat mechanics incompatible with the game

[Mr Giggio]

31 minutes ago, arubaro said:

The main problem... making a character with a combat mechanics incompatible with the game

Imagine having ammo that has special effects but then it's slow at the point ice staffs are more effective then the freeze rounds or/and the slow rounds don't work in fast bosses like twins/cc phase 2

It's just waste potential of course people want to talk about that to get it fixed  lol

[arubaro]

10 minutes ago, Mr Giggio said:

Imagine having ammo that has special effects but then it's slow at the point ice staffs are more effective then the freeze rounds or/and the slow rounds don't work in fast bosses like twins/cc phase 2

It's just waste potential of course people want to talk about that to get it fixed  lol

I dont get why the special ammo is so damn bad. Isnt only slow but way more expensive than simply using ice staves. Remembers me how bad are sleep darts

My comment was more about how dumb is to make a character with a core mechanic before adapting the game for that mechanic... we are getting range weapons that show the problem while the game is still the same and old ranged weapons like the darts are bad and expensive

[aidankocherhans]

43 minutes ago, Mr Giggio said:

the slow rounds don't work in fast bosses like twins/cc phase 2

I heard they did work well for celestial champion?

1 hour ago, arubaro said:

The main problem... making a character with a combat mechanics incompatible with the game

I think the slingshot goes in the right direction for ranged combat, long startup and lower DPS makes it balanced and require skill (depending on the fight)

[Mr Giggio]

2 minutes ago, aidankocherhans said:

I heard they did work well for celestial champion?

It matches player mov speed to spin in phase 2 so it's irrelevant 

 

Twins charge attack ain't affected either

[SilverSpoon]

19 minutes ago, aidankocherhans said:

I think the slingshot goes in the right direction for ranged combat, long startup and lower DPS makes it balanced and require skill (depending on the fight)

That is when you're playing solo. (but I think slingshots is also boring than melee even when playing solo)
When you use the slingshot in multiplayer, you literally just hold down the F key.

[Theukon-dos]

I know I already said my dues. But I was short on time and didn't really manage to convey the things I wanted to, so let me try again.

 

Walter's slingshot is interesting. It's the only character-exclusive weapon that's not based on a pre-existing weapon type (spears, whips, ect.). And all these years later, it still makes Walter the closest thing DST has to a dedicated ranged character. It may be woefully underpowered, but it is interesting none the less.

 

Not using the slingshot may be more effective. But it also means you're not using the most interesting part of his kit. Using the slingshot may be slow and expensive, but it also fundementally changes the way you approach fights when you do use it. But grabbing a hambat means that you're just fighting bosses the same way every other character fights bosses. The only real difference is that you'll probably want more sanity foods for most of them. By playing Walter in a more effective way, you also make him far, far more boring.

 

As a more hands-on example, Uncompromising Mode forced Walter to commit Mitosis and split him into 2 characters. Walter himself became more focused on the boy scout aspect of his character, while his slingshot was completely overhauled and given to a new character named Wixie. While I do feel that Walter is generally undertuned (Though all of you who play without the Slingshot may actually really like him), Wixie has ended up becoming one of my favorite characters to play as. Why? Because when the Slingshot is actually allowed to be effective, you end up with a character that plays entirely different from everyone else in the game.

 

You can't just pick up a hambat to beat the snot out of whatever boss you have to face next, because Wixie's moderately fragile and her claustrophobia downside will stun you and likely get you killed. You have to plan, prepare what ammo you want to use, manage your spacing, ect. Things that Walter could do if the slingshot didn't hit about as hard as a wet noodle.

[Well-met]

8 hours ago, arubaro said:

The main problem... making a character with a combat mechanics incompatible with the game

which is why they made it arm up so slowly

[Catuna_]

14 hours ago, Theukon-dos said:

As a more hands-on example, Uncompromising Mode forced Walter to commit Mitosis and split him into 2 characters. Walter himself became more focused on the boy scout aspect of his character, while his slingshot was completely overhauled and given to a new character named Wixie. While I do feel that Walter is generally undertuned (Though all of you who play without the Slingshot may actually really like him)

uncomp walter feels like butt to play i wont even lie he's full of jank and feels bad to play not to mention extremely undertuned
i've had way more fun more fun in uncomp with vanilla walter

14 hours ago, Theukon-dos said:

Wixie has ended up becoming one of my favorite characters to play as. Why? Because when the Slingshot is actually allowed to be effective, you end up with a character that plays entirely different from everyone else in the game.

You can't just pick up a hambat to beat the snot out of whatever boss you have to face next, because Wixie's moderately fragile and her claustrophobia downside will stun you and likely get you killed. You have to plan, prepare what ammo you want to use, manage your spacing, ect. Things that Walter could do if the slingshot didn't hit about as hard as a wet noodle.

while i agree wixie is fun i don't think that they're nearly in the same boat, as Wixie is severely punished for being near any entity
i also can kind of criticize that Wixie can feel pretty overwhelming with how many ammos she has + the extra effects from being fully charged/using gnasher... and I kinda ended up just not engaging with most of them because a lot of them are very niche
and i don't think a character design like her would really work in vanilla dst, none of the dst characters atm are really punished for playing the game how you would anyone else
walter's slingshot could be powerful as an incentive to be used and that'd be cool i suppose but if walter was just glued to the slingshot he'd lose a ton of the appeal that he has at least for me

[Parusoid]

I wait for the day when Slingshot gets reworked so well it becomes as core to Walter as Alarming Clock is core to Wanda 

[A4FE]

back from the GRAVE to say yeah i wouldn't mind at all if walter's skilltree or whatevs was literally ALL focused on the slingshot (since y'all seem to like it, and nothing wrong with that), just so long as they don't touch base walter to compensate 

cause i LIKE base walter atm, i love his quotes and he's a low maintenance little dude, and EVEN THOUGH that's def the minority opinion from what im catching, i can play him my way by not focusing on the slingshot, and y'all can play him your way by being slingshot KINGS. 

honestly really cool perspective imo that all parties could be happy if they put in slingshot changes for the people who want a ranged character, and leave his base form alone for all the "sanity is a myth" mf (like me) who love him just the way he is

 

 

[Theukon-dos]

12 hours ago, Catuna_ said:

uncomp walter feels like butt to play i wont even lie he's full of jank and feels bad to play not to mention extremely undertuned
i've had way more fun more fun in uncomp with vanilla walter

Yeah, that's fair. UM Walter definitly needs some work. But that work is on the cards, the devs are just waiting for Walter's skill tree to release so they can do all that work at the same time. 

12 hours ago, Catuna_ said:

while i agree wixie is fun i don't think that they're nearly in the same boat, as Wixie is severely punished for being near any entity
i also can kind of criticize that Wixie can feel pretty overwhelming with how many ammos she has + the extra effects from being fully charged/using gnasher... and I kinda ended up just not engaging with most of them because a lot of them are very niche
and i don't think a character design like her would really work in vanilla dst, none of the dst characters atm are really punished for playing the game how you would anyone else
walter's slingshot could be powerful as an incentive to be used and that'd be cool i suppose but if walter was just glued to the slingshot he'd lose a ton of the appeal that he has at least for me

I mean, that's the exact thing I was praising about her. She plays in a fundamentally different way than every other character. Something that's especially welcome given the recent oversaturation of combat-based characters. I definitely don't think that Walter should lean as far into the Slingshot as Wixie does, he'd still have all the boy scout stuff after all. But I do think that leaning far more into the idea of him being a ranged character would be the best direction overall. 

[Chewabacca]

To me, the slingshot is a tool first and a weapon second. Its main role is to facilitate Walter's vagabond survival playstyle, so that if your hunger is running low and you didn't pack enough food, or if you want more gold from the Pig King for more ammo, you will always be able to just shoot a bird for a quick morsel. I also think an underrated aspect of it is how easy it is to use it to make darts: just point and shoot, including in winter where you might be running low on seeds to attract blue birds to a trap for blow darts. And in desperate times, I can just hold down F to deal with any attacking nightmare creatures. Combat-wise, I do love accumulating enough marble rounds to shoot a boss dead from atop Woby, but that's in large part because I suck at close-range kiting.

To your larger point: agreed heartily! Even as someone who loves the slingshot, the DST community's focus on it as the defining tool he has is a bit weird and I think it points toward folks focusing more on combat over all the other parts of the game. Apparently 9-slot Woby is only a subpar beefalo (despite the fact that you get her larger form practically for free, whereas a beefalo takes a lot more time and investment), and the tent tends to be forgotten entirely. Honestly, for me I'd say that Woby feels far more core to Walter's character than the slingshot. With, again, 9 whole inventory slots and an easily obtainable mount form, Woby means you can be on the go at the drop of a hat. I can whizz from one end of the map to the other in a day with all the stuff I might need, whereas with other characters I move slower and waste more time worrying about things I might need. My frog rain strat is just to be constantly on the move for a few days, and that's entirely enabled by Woby.

The tent I think suffers from players generally overlooking sleep mechanics. People talk so much about how if Walter gets hit at all, it's all downhill, which is why you supposedly can never do melee as Walter but...guys the tent exists. Even you're very badly wounded, as long as you survive till evening comes and have a full stomach, you will be able to jump in your (extremely cheap) tent and presto, your sanity and health are now not an issue. I have jumped in there as nightmare creatures were spawning and come out fine. And then the forest sanity gain + his hat work to stave off sanity loss when you're away from it. It's a nice tool.

[Mysterious box]

6 hours ago, Chewabacca said:

To me, the slingshot is a tool first and a weapon second. Its main role is to facilitate Walter's vagabond survival playstyle, so that if your hunger is running low and you didn't pack enough food, or if you want more gold from the Pig King for more ammo, you will always be able to just shoot a bird for a quick morsel. I also think an underrated aspect of it is how easy it is to use it to make darts: just point and shoot, including in winter where you might be running low on seeds to attract blue birds to a trap for blow darts. And in desperate times, I can just hold down F to deal with any attacking nightmare creatures. Combat-wise, I do love accumulating enough marble rounds to shoot a boss dead from atop Woby, but that's in large part because I suck at close-range kiting.

To your larger point: agreed heartily! Even as someone who loves the slingshot, the DST community's focus on it as the defining tool he has is a bit weird and I think it points toward folks focusing more on combat over all the other parts of the game. Apparently 9-slot Woby is only a subpar beefalo (despite the fact that you get her larger form practically for free, whereas a beefalo takes a lot more time and investment), and the tent tends to be forgotten entirely. Honestly, for me I'd say that Woby feels far more core to Walter's character than the slingshot. With, again, 9 whole inventory slots and an easily obtainable mount form, Woby means you can be on the go at the drop of a hat. I can whizz from one end of the map to the other in a day with all the stuff I might need, whereas with other characters I move slower and waste more time worrying about things I might need. My frog rain strat is just to be constantly on the move for a few days, and that's entirely enabled by Woby.

The tent I think suffers from players generally overlooking sleep mechanics. People talk so much about how if Walter gets hit at all, it's all downhill, which is why you supposedly can never do melee as Walter but...guys the tent exists. Even you're very badly wounded, as long as you survive till evening comes and have a full stomach, you will be able to jump in your (extremely cheap) tent and presto, your sanity and health are now not an issue. I have jumped in there as nightmare creatures were spawning and come out fine. And then the forest sanity gain + his hat work to stave off sanity loss when you're away from it. It's a nice tool.

While I agree that people overlook his other perks far too much the slingshot gets the focus because it's the only perk that's uniquely his it feels like not using Maxwell's summons.

Also while I understand some people like to  view it as a tool the fact the slingshot has far more of a focus on damage than crowd control or scavenging definitely shows it was meant to be a weapon though obviously in a more balanced and grounded game where people weren't becoming human flame throwers for example. Simply put as a tool it's too niche but as a weapon it's too weak.

As a aside using the slingshot to gather darts is doable but so is fighting every boss with an axe between the time you'd spend gathering rounds for your slingshot and the darts you'd be better off just making a marble farm or rushing the ruins for cursed rounds.