Shadow Maul Research

[Jakepeng99]

6 minutes ago, arubaro said:

For me the boss killing gimmick is fun, i wont argue that 12 might be too much but for me that is just 1 season of bosses i will kill anyway. I like the mechanic, feels unique and rewarding. Also makes you take care of the axe like how we took care of the shield of terror (reason why i always were against making it unbreakable)

The hunger isnt much of a problem, the maul tells me he is hungry and i simply kill some bees from my bee zone, in winter im killing stuff anyway. Even walls works for the moment

I think isnt op right now neither underpowered. As i said i did many stuff without worrying about healing and i was using 80% armor... if i were using better armor i wont reach 95% of hp...

I like the idea of it as a niche gimmick that is rewarding, which is the most fun parts of the game, like Wurt befofe they made her broken op. I want to try it still but not have as much time recently.

[arubaro]

2 minutes ago, Jakepeng99 said:

like Wurt befofe they made her broken op

Agree... is sad

[SilverSpoon]

Shadow Maul is also useless as a way to save HP healing item. Shadow Maul consumes 50% of the sanity by heals (Batbat consumes 25%). What's the point of saving HP healing item if you need extra sanity healing item or other thing?

22 hours ago, arubaro said:

is too good, fully cleaning the ruins without wasting a single healing item while doing top damage. Doesnt removes batbat out of the equation while being unique and useful

2 hours ago, arubaro said:

I dont think people who is complaining about the current ammount of healing has tried it. Is hard to be at less than 100% hp because you are healing constantly...unless you wanna mindless tank multiple enemies...

1.What character are you using?
2.Is this inpossible with Shadow Reaper or other items?

[arubaro]

1 minute ago, SilverSpoon said:

Shadow Maul is also useless as a way to save HP healing item. Shadow Maul consumes 50% of the sanity by heals (Batbat consumes 25%). What's the point of saving HP healing item if you need extra sanity healing item or other thing?

1.What character are you using?
2.Is this inpossible with Shadow Reaper or other items?

I used warly without using spice or jelly so it was like using wilson but without being able to spam the same sanity dish if i wanted to recover the sanity. The truth is that wasnt needed because i dealt with the shadows plus the bosses thanks to the healing

2 minutes ago, SilverSpoon said:

Shadow Maul is also useless as a way to save HP healing item.

Well, i tested it and will keep testing

If you dont like it you arent forced. I like losing sanity when healing, is balanced but i dont use godmode so idk if everybody will find that cost fun

[Radicaljoe]

It seems like a cool weapon, just can't ever see myself using it. So much effort for little noticeable difference in damage or fighting style than the reaper + having to upkeep it(regardless of how easy it is, still another step I don't have to with the reaper.) I have healing food, band-aids, armor. Life Steal is cool but it seems overhyped. My main issue is it's a terrible axe. I was expecting it to be a great tool/weapon like the scythe, but it is no different than an opulent axe, and that's at max. At max level, the maul takes 5 hits for a medium tree, but has 200 durability, so it can chop the exact same amount of trees as a whole opulent axe, except it's expensive and breaking it will set you back 6-9 bosses instead of 2 gold. I love the idea, but don't see myself using it except as maybe Wigfrid.

I think the healing is fine, I don't see the power of the healing much, but I do want the tool half to be better.

[SilverSpoon]

10 minutes ago, arubaro said:

i dealt with the shadows plus the bosses thanks to the healing

It's really interesting that who so skilled that he can try to one-up other players to say "I don't use godmode" would benefit from healing.

[Bumber64]

32 minutes ago, arubaro said:

For me the boss killing gimmick is fun, i wont argue that 12 might be too much but for me that is just 1 season of bosses i will kill anyway.

Imagine it breaks during a boss fight. (I.e., the most likely time for that exact thing to happen.) Imagine you're over halfway through and now the bosses are on cooldown.

You've now got to finish up with a greatly inferior weapon, or switch to reaper and find time later to restore the maul.

38 minutes ago, arubaro said:

As i said i did many stuff without worrying about healing and i was using 80% armor... if i were using better armor i wont reach 95% of hp...

How do you do on better armor + jellybeans?

[Ridley]

18 minutes ago, SilverSpoon said:

2.Is this inpossible with Shadow Reaper or other items?

Not able to test atm but I think Shadow Reaper + Void Cowl + Bone Armor would preform the same. I don't think that extra 4 Maul damage is hitting any interesting thresholds in the ruins. Not really sure what we are fighting for in the ruins post Fuelweaver anyway...

[SilverSpoon]

44 minutes ago, Jakepeng99 said:

It lets you have higher dps too as you heal without needing to stop attacking.

Considering that Shadow Maul consumes 1.4 sanity per hit when health is low, I think that increase in DPS would be limited to a margin of error since you would need to recover sanity instead of recovering health.

[Jakepeng99]

2 hours ago, arubaro said:

Agree... is sad

I should probably make a post on it at some point. Ive been sprinkling it alot everywhere.

[arubaro]

3 hours ago, Bumber64 said:

Imagine it breaks during a boss fight. (I.e., the most likely time for that exact thing to happen.) Imagine you're over halfway through and now the bosses are on cooldown.

You've now got to finish up with a greatly inferior weapon, or switch to reaper and find time later to restore the maul.

So? That is part of the fun...

3 hours ago, Bumber64 said:

How do you do on better armor + jellybeans?

The healing is slower, you need to farm jelly beans and takes an slot

Both methods are good, that is the sweet spot. Any method overshadows the other...

[Maxil20]

I think it’s important to note that the axe lifesteal effect (and therefore the sanity hit) doesn’t occur if your health is maxed. If you are at the point where you can obtain and then proceed to kill enough bosses to max out the axe, you are probably skilled enough to not be eating hits left and right, and therefore the amount of sanity you are losing from the axe should be significantly less than expected. This is especially relevant if you are considering wearing items like the void robe which negate most sanity auras from bosses where this would be a problem, or using an item like the enlightened crown to recover sanity outside of combat. 

2 hours ago, Bumber64 said:

Imagine it breaks during a boss fight. (I.e., the most likely time for that exact thing to happen.)

Most players are going to watch weapon durability anyway during boss fights, especially when needing to weapon swap pre rift. In my ~100 hours of using a shield of terror for combat/boss fights, I had it break once, and it was from a vast misinterpretation when fighting multiple spider queens without wearing backup armor. As long as you notice the axe go below ~20% durability and take a moment to repair it, you should never have to worry about the axe being lost during combat.

It’s also important to note that if the weapon isn’t for you, there’s also nothing wrong with that. It gives a good balance between the reaper, the brightshade sword, and the maul. All work for different playstyles and I feel the weapons were designed in a way one player would prefer it over the other compared to each being “the definitive choice”. I myself like the sword, but I know a lot of my friends who don’t and either prefer the scythe, or the maul. 

[arubaro]

37 minutes ago, Jakepeng99 said:

I should probably make a post on it at some point. Ive been sprinkling it alot everywhere.

Wurt was already perfect pre skill tree. At most, some qol could be added but now... i dont even consider playing her, she was already a faceroll for long term worlds

[Vasz_]

48 minutes ago, Jakepeng99 said:

I should probably make a post on it at some point. Ive been sprinkling it alot everywhere.

You really should. I wanted to ask your opinion, but I don't want to derail this thread.

 

[Bumber64]

1 hour ago, arubaro said:

The healing is slower, you need to farm jelly beans and takes an slot

But BQ is part of your seasonal boss hunt, right? You said you're killing around 12 anyway.

What are you doing for sanity that isn't replacing that slot? (I would assume slots matter less once you're using repair kits, anyway.)

[cybers2001]

1 hour ago, arubaro said:

So? That is part of the fun...

The healing is slower, you need to farm jelly beans and takes an slot

Both methods are good, that is the sweet spot. Any method overshadows the other...

You don’t put your jellybeans in your bearger bin?

[arubaro]

28 minutes ago, Bumber64 said:

But BQ is part of your seasonal boss hunt, right? You said you're killing around 12 anyway.

What are you doing for sanity that isn't replacing that slot? (I would assume slots matter less once you're using repair kits, anyway.)

Yeah, i killed BQ once to get the lvl3 maul, i killed many BQs to keep having jelly beans. There is that difference, the maul, aslong as you dont derp, is an infinity cheap source of healing

im honestly doing nothing for sanity. I wear the void robe, because i only carry banna shakes so insanity auras are specially effective agaisnt warly because his downside, and tank the sanity drain fromt he maul, which is low and only active when it heals you. I need to heal a lot to become insane  and when happens i simply kill the shadows because the maul+void hood makes it easy to kill shadows while also healing

for the ruins i bring BS armor instead of the robe to activate the ink snakes so i simply kill shadows when im insane 

9 minutes ago, cybers2001 said:

You don’t put your jellybeans in your bearger bin?

no, as warly i bring some pierogies, stew, honey ham, bannana shake, glow berry mouse and a the seasonal dish to counter weather

for the ruins i brough jellys but now i dont need to waste them

[Cruvimaster]

Analyzing.

 

Shadow Maul was built to be a late game main weapon. With the same purpose, we also have BS Sword and Shadow Reaper.

 

So I'll compare Shadow Maul (+ Void Crowl) with BS Sword (+ BS Helm)

 

1. Max Damage:

 

a) BS Sword (+ BS Helm): 76.8 damage (or 84.5 damage to shadow creatures).

b) Shadow Maul (+ Void Crowl): 92.8 total damage (or 102.08 total damage vs. lunar). It is important to average the damage, as it only reaches the maximum value on the 6th attack (~82).

 

2. Sanity:

 

a) BS Sword: none.

b) Shadow Maul: -3.3/min + 50% of Health restored.

 

3. Ease of repair:

 

a) BS Sword: Pure Brilliance (just mine / no real risk to the player) | Brightshade Husk (you can control the amount of Deadly Brightshade and 1 is easy to defeat).

b) Shadow Maul: Pure Horror (must defeat specific monsters) / Dark Tatters (can only be obtained from Ink Blights and are much more complicated than Deadly Brightshade).

 

4. Life steal:

a) BS Sword: none. A simple food item can restore 60 points at once. Late game everyone will have Polar Bearger Bin.

b) Shadow Maul: 3.4. Needs 18 attacks to overcome a 60-point food item.

 

5. Bonus from the item you will carry in your inventory to make the weapon at its maximum power:

a) Void Crowl: Increases damage.

b) BS Helm: Increases damage. In addition:

The Brightshade Helm also negates both the vision loss and slowdown from Sandstorms, Moonstorms, and Miasma, alongside pacifying Gestalts. Prevents Charlie attacks when standing in darkness.

 

6. Need to constantly feed the weapon:

a) BS Sword: none.
b) Shadow Maul: has a hunger bar of 500 points, losing 12/min. Some players will wrap the weapon in packages to maintain its durability.

 

7. Difficulty in obtaining the weapon at its maximum potential:

a) BS Sword: just activate the Lunar Rifts on the day of the game and in a few days you will have the weapon.

b) Shadow Maul: you have to activate the Shadow Rifts + defeat Shadow Pieces + go to the labyrinth to look for Ornery Chest + defeat 9 bosses.

 

[arubaro]

8 minutes ago, Cruvimaster said:

The Brightshade Helm also negates both the vision loss and slowdown from Sandstorms, Moonstorms, and Miasma, alongside pacifying Gestalts. Prevents Charlie attacks when standing in darkness.

that is why the BS helm needs some perks removed...

[Cruvimaster]

Comparing these two late game weapons, why would it be worth all the effort and greater difficulty in maintaining the Maul with the sole difference of giving 3.4 life steal with the tradeoff of losing sanity in combat?

[cybers2001]

As far as ruins go, you're still sacrificing an inventory slot no matter how you slice it, since at the end of the day you're still going to want a brightshade smasher, which also means brightshade repair kits. So if you're bringing any void gear along, you're guaranteed to have to carry both void and brightshade kits.

[arubaro]

17 minutes ago, cybers2001 said:

As far as ruins go, you're still sacrificing an inventory slot no matter how you slice it, since at the end of the day you're still going to want a brightshade smasher, which also means brightshade repair kits. So if you're bringing any void gear along, you're guaranteed to have to carry both void and brightshade kits.

Ye, i bring both because i use the hood+maul+BS armor with glow berry mouse. Any way, before the maul i used dreadstone armor and helmet (wearing both means they wont never reach <80%)+glow berry mouse and dark swords so im used to always carry a stack of bs kits for the smasher. The difference is that im not wasting extra resources because i will use the kits to repair the weapon not matter what so is too convinient.

The point was that the healing is strong enough to go throw the entire ruins (mine are particularly big) without using a single healing item

Today i also fough armored bearger and, despite being hit multiple times by bearger to protect some buildings, cuz it spawn without warning when i leaved the cave, i recover the hp pretty quickly. Im in a point that my food inside the bearger bin is close to orange..

I will keep using it for now but i might ditch it because is making me ignore a very appreciated mechanic for me

I dont get why people need more healing... are they face tanking everything?

[Bumber64]

Shadow has reaper and maul.

Lunar has BS bombs and howlitzer.

I think this is the actual symmetry, and it's kind of weird. The spark ark weapon is easier to maintain, but less effective. (I don't think you could afford to fight most bosses with BS bombs. It's like gunpowder.)

[Arcwell]

I am not disagreeing with this post but would like to correct some things:

1 hour ago, Cruvimaster said:

b) Shadow Maul (+ Void Crowl): 80.8 damage (or 88.9 against Lunar Aligned creatures).

That's with a tier 0 Maul.
Tier 3 Maul w/cowl damage is as follows:
(38 base * 1.1 cowl mod) physical damage + (22 base + 5 cowl bonus + 24 cowl hitstreak bonus) planar damage = 92.8 total damage or 102.08 total damage vs. lunar.
Note this is assuming max hitstreak is maintained (which is notably lost whenever you get hit). Minimum hitstreak damage is 72.8.

1 hour ago, Cruvimaster said:

a) Void Crowl: Increases damage, especially against lunar creatures.

b) BS Helm: Increases damage, especially against shadow creatures.

Neither of these items gives you a damage bonus against aligned creatures. They give a damage bonus to their respective weapons, which innately have damage bonuses against aligned creatures. The armors themselves have a damage reduction alignment bonus against enemies of the same type (10% for 1 piece or 25% for 2 matching bs/void pieces) (dreadstone also has 10% alignment reduction but stacks to 19% instead of 25% with 2 pieces).

[Cruvimaster]

2 minutes ago, Arcwell said:

I am not disagreeing with this post but would like to correct some things:

That's with a tier 0 Maul.
Tier 3 Maul w/cowl damage is as follows:
(38 base * 1.1 cowl mod) physical damage + (22 base + 5 cowl bonus + 24 cowl hitstreak bonus) planar damage = 92.8 total damage or 102.08 total damage vs. lunar.
Note this is assuming max hitstreak is maintained (which is notably lost whenever you get hit). Minimum hitstreak damage is 72.8.

Neither of these items gives you a damage bonus against aligned creatures. They give a damage bonus to their respective weapons, which innately have damage bonuses against aligned creatures. The armors themselves have a damage reduction alignment bonus against enemies of the same type (10% for 1 piece or 25% for 2 matching bs/void pieces) (dreadstone also has 10% alignment reduction but stacks to 19% instead of 25% with 2 pieces).

Thanks!

@Arcwell Do you know why it didn't give 102.8?