Void walking was removed so winona can build bridge in cave.

[Tranoze]

Winona building bridge in cave:

Klei dev:

Not mine btw.

[Gashzer]

I feel like this is harder to pull off than you might think.

Sure klei will patch it soon

[Tranoze]

38 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

I feel like this is harder to pull off than you might think.

Sure klei will patch it soon

Patch? why? Boss die to fall damage is totally a legit way, since cave void is no longer "WALL" but "CLIFF".
Since it is a cliff, there are no reason for boss to not die falling down there.

There are 2 thing happening,
Winona's bride allow enemies to easily go to void/cliff area.
Enemies go to void/cliff area instantly dead.

Even without winona, we still can push bosses/ unkillable enemies (like ancient centipede) to void/cliff, and kill them.
If it doesnt kill them, void walking is back?

A patch that completely solve this problem is harder than you think.

[Bumber64]

40 minutes ago, Tranoze said:

Since it is a cliff, there are no reason for boss to not die falling down there.

No reason other than... players don't die when falling.

It's literally the same mechanic as drowning, and surface bosses have a solution for that.

[Tranoze]

12 minutes ago, Bumber64 said:

No reason other than... players don't die when falling.

It's literally the same mechanic as drowning, and surface bosses have a solution for that.

in surface, other than bosses, most mob just water walking (spider, beef ...) when being pushed to [what ever you wanna call it for both].
So should all mobs have players treatment to come back to cave after fall, or, die?
What about structure? like pile of centipede after you kill it right on top of bridge?

[Bumber64]

10 hours ago, Tranoze said:

in surface, other than bosses, most mob just water walking (spider, beef ...) when being pushed to [what ever you wanna call it for both].
So should all mobs have players treatment to come back to cave after fall, or, die?
What about structure? like pile of centipede after you kill it right on top of bridge?

Water/void walking is a separate issue caused by not entering the water/void properly. The entity is still in a "walking" state (like weregoose, striders, and ghosts). Drowning/falling state usually triggers when something is on a boat/bridge that breaks (unless the entity has been coded not to).

Drowning causes instant death unless the entity has a "drownable" component, IIRC. This component is added manually, not tied to a boss tag. Many bosses were given this component after a certain update, but there wasn't any water in caves, so those bosses were left out. If falling shares the same code as drowning, then giving anything a drownable component will protect it from instant falling death.

Someone in the beta section said the falling code is the exact same, but I haven't checked for myself. You can add the component using console commands, and I'll probably test that later.

[arubaro]

18 hours ago, Tranoze said:

Patch? why? Boss die to fall damage is totally a legit way, since cave void is no longer "WALL" but "CLIFF".
Since it is a cliff, there are no reason for boss to not die falling down there.

There are 2 thing happening,
Winona's bride allow enemies to easily go to void/cliff area.
Enemies go to void/cliff area instantly dead.

Even without winona, we still can push bosses/ unkillable enemies (like ancient centipede) to void/cliff, and kill them.
If it doesnt kill them, void walking is back?

A patch that completely solve this problem is harder than you think.

They should make it so the boss falls with their hp intact, like the player 

I cant see how this oversight can be defended other than people wanting to insta kill stuff without effort

[00petar00]

43 minutes ago, arubaro said:

They should make it so the boss falls with their hp intact, like the player 

I cant see how this oversight can be defended other than people wanting to insta kill stuff without effort

What's the problem with that? It is very specific issue that only players that know how to do it will want to when they don't find the boss or randomized loot fun.

I know that this will get fixed but it sucks that it will happen. Misery toadstool or even toadstool has too much HP and it isn't fun to roll on luck whether you get the BP you need, I usually want mushlight but don't always get it.

[arubaro]

24 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

What's the problem with that? It is very specific issue that only players that know how to do it will want to when they don't find the boss or randomized loot fun.

I know that this will get fixed but it sucks that it will happen. Misery toadstool or even toadstool has too much HP and it isn't fun to roll on luck whether you get the BP you need, I usually want mushlight but don't always get it.

I wont discuss, if you dont see the problem i wont change your mind about not interacting with content to get rewards without efforts

Devs in videogames want their efforts to be useful, not to be useless neither allow things that sabotage future work

Use the damn tools the game gives if you think that fighting toadstool during 5 minutes is too much

[00petar00]

13 minutes ago, arubaro said:

I wont discuss, if you dont see the problem i wont change your mind about not interacting with content to get rewards without efforts

Devs in videogames want their efforts to be useful, not to be useless neither allow things that sabotage future work

Use the damn tools the game gives if you think that fighting toadstool during 5 minutes is too much

This isn't dark souls or elden ring, I don't need to have to work for rewards in the same way. Winona can build catapults or Wolfgang with damage multiplier so it already isn't balanced.

Why does it matter to you If I use this method to kill misery toadstool a boss that I probably dislike the most in the entire game? Fight isn't 5 minutes but like 20 or so as a solo player with tons of resources going down the drain and you can easily encounter worm wave or now even worm boss that will probably end your fight.

[arubaro]

37 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

This isn't dark souls or elden ring

Ye, needing to experience content is saying this game should be like FromSofware's games hahahahahahahah

[Bumber64]

3 hours ago, 00petar00 said:

This isn't dark souls or elden ring, I don't need to have to work for rewards in the same way. Winona can build catapults or Wolfgang with damage multiplier so it already isn't balanced.

Why does it matter to you If I use this method to kill misery toadstool a boss that I probably dislike the most in the entire game? Fight isn't 5 minutes but like 20 or so as a solo player with tons of resources going down the drain and you can easily encounter worm wave or now even worm boss that will probably end your fight.

If you want creative mode, ask for creative mode. You're talking about one-shotting a boss, which isn't even fighting it.

Otherwise there's console commands if you're playing alone (ironically not available on console.) You can just give yourself the blueprints and a single shroom skin if you dislike that one boss. However, my recollection is that you advocate cheesing any boss you can possibly cheese, so consider c_freecrafting() to skip the hassle of fighting anything.

[Bumber64]

On 9/13/2024 at 4:08 PM, Bumber64 said:

Someone in the beta section said the falling code is the exact same, but I haven't checked for myself. You can add the component using console commands, and I'll probably test that later.

Okay, I tested it and adding the drownable component isn't quite enough. Toadstool water/void walks when given it (instead of teleporting or dying). A bearger in the caves falls and teleports properly without any changes made.

So the mechanic is the exact same as drowning, but toadstool is missing something in addition to the component. (Or has something that prevents it.)
Edit: There needed to also be a thing in the stategraph. Klei fixed it.

[imbafflement]

@00petar00 I feel like I usually agree with your points, but... This is one shotting a boss. I don't think most people care if it's obscure, it is almost instantly the best method to deal with the boss. There are better ways to handle void falling for bosses. Maybe it just deals 500-1000 damage, much like gunpowder which only holds the ability to deal massive burst damage. It insta-kills the boss, and its drops. Or it just doesn't hurt the boss and drops it on the same area as the player.

Also, I don't personally care if it's "How one person plays", the mere existence of it affects how players feel. There are ways to dodge and fight Dragonfly as any character, but most people use pan flutes just because it is more efficient. Players will play differently if an option does so much as merely exist. That's also related to why so many people were upset when Lure Plant 'cheese' was removed, because its mere existence changed how people thought about options. You mentioning Wolfgang and Winnona's catapults are a part of this. "

Winona can build catapults or Wolfgang with damage multiplier so it already isn't balanced.

" You brought those up as a part of the justification of Void insta-kills, the mere existence changed how you viewed other options. This applies to others as well. All I ask is that you, and anyone else who says that, consider that, No! The fact these options exist DO affect others, the user of the method being effected by it is proof enough. If it is a reasonable option, it's able to be considered. That's honestly the only real thing that annoyed me about what you said.

Otherwise, I think it would be fine if it just dealt a large amount of damage while the boss teleports back. As you mentioned, it's obscure(for now) and is usable on infamously unfun bosses. And I would prefer the legitimization of an interesting, intuitive idea over the pure removal of it. Similar to Lure Plants being patched out by taking damage and still stalling for a moment, rather than losing collision.

[Arcwell]

Old news now, but this was patched without (as far as I can tell) making it into the patch notes at any point.

[Evelo]

We have the normal bridges, it wasn't "so winona could build bridges" Don't be inflammatory.

[Mysterious box]

9 hours ago, Evelo said:

We have the normal bridges, it wasn't "so winona could build bridges" Don't be inflammatory.

No winona was definitely the reason. Normal bridges and a easier to locate atrium were the compensation but if we're being real the majority of players didn't use void walking due to how few actually knew about it and with bridges and the now consistent atrium spawn location I think almost everyone sees it as a net positive for the game.

[flamboyant wolf]

54 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

No winona was definitely the reason. Normal bridges and a easier to locate atrium were the compensation but if we're being real the majority of players didn't use void walking due to how few actually knew about it and with bridges and the now consistent atrium spawn location I think almost everyone sees it as a net positive for the game.

Not to mention ghosts and flying mobs/followers being able to fly over void now(great QoL).

[Tranoze]

9 hours ago, flamboyant wolf said:

Not to mention ghosts and flying mobs/followers being able to fly over void now(great QoL).

Except for abigail for some reason...