Nightmare Saddle makes beefalos extremely tanky and nobody is talking about it

[WereBruhver]

Nightmare Saddle stats:


When equipped with this saddle Beefalo's 1000hp becomes protected by 60% damage absorption, turning his hp into 1000/0,4 = 2500 effective hp against non planar damage, his effective hp regen becomes 0,69/0,4 = 1,725 effective hp per second and his 4x healing from eating turns into effective 4/0,4 = 10x healing from eating! This is before taking into consideration his 15 planar defense, which gives him from 50% planar damage reduction up to 100% damage reduction to the planar part of the damage taken by him depending on which planar enemy attacked him and what planar attack they used. This is also before taking into consideration his -10% damage taken from shadow aligned creatures which reduces both non planar and planar damage taken by him. 

Video ilustrating how tanky a Beefalo becomes with Nightmare Saddle:

Possessed Varg is a fight in which super high damage or aoe shines, Nightmare saddle beefalo is neither of those and he brute forced the fight by sheer tankyness. Giving a somewhat high damage absorption to a high HP pool such as beefalo results in this kind of situation, I really appreciate Klei work and the saddle is super cool but the numbers that were given to this saddle feels like they weren't deeply thought about when considering Beefalo's high hp pool, hp regen and healing from fruits and vegetables. It just feels like too much safety especially when ranged weapons are being introduced that will not only make use of this new found safety but also help the beefalo himself stay even safer. Too many layers of tankyness and safety even for someone like me that plays a character that would love to walk around with two gloomerangs in a 2500 hp self regenerating armor that receives x10 bonus healing from food and that also gives me incredible mov speed. 

Clarification: The only change I would like is for its damage reduction to go from 60% to 50%, 60% is just too tanky and it feels so, 50% would already be enough for every tankness stat of the beefalo to be doubled (2x) instead of x2,5 like 60% reduction does, it is perfect otherwise. 

[Kvetevk]

It is a late game saddle that can be only crafted after defeating ancient fuelweaver, it also is crafted from the shadow heart that is locked behind moon phases
The saddle gives you reason to still use beefalos after the rifts are open
And also you cannot buff the saddle with void cowel (the shadow planar hat)

For the gloomerang with or without beefalo is not op, though klei should make it so you can only use 1 gloomerang and if you switch it will have the same cooldown as the first one
also the lunar bombs that are more expensive deals 200 full planar dmg, you can switch to wilson with lunar alligment and transfer some pure briliance into the infused moon shards to mass product the bombs.
With little bit of switching characters you can have better dps than the gloomerang + beefalo

I think the shadow and lunar crafts are very well balanced (of course the gloomerang needs a little tweak)

[Well-met]

if you exclude the wig saddle, beefalo hasn't had any new equipment in 10+ years so it's probably fine

[Frosty_Mentos]

Assuming it could survive a deerclops long enough to get help to defeat it and not survive crystal deerclops or armored bearger if we get knocked off or beefalo gets attacked by accident, it probably is kinda balanced? Super lategame after all, costly, has revival option incase something dumb happens. Seems okay enough to be handled by more skilled hands?

[arubaro]

57 minutes ago, KvetekSK said:

also the lunar bombs that are more expensive deals 200 full planar dmg

That is a really bad point since they are way expensive than the rest of the rift content (not because they are expensive but because everything os so damn cheap) and can one shot you if you mess up

[WereBruhver]

2 hours ago, KvetekSK said:

It is a late game saddle that can be only crafted after defeating ancient fuelweaver, it also is crafted from the shadow heart that is locked behind moon phases

I don't find this argument convincing, following the same line of tought any stat on a new item is fine as long as "It is a late game item that can be only crafted after defeating ancient fuelweaver, it also is crafted from the shadow heart that is locked behind moon phases" meaning the new bell would be fine even if it was infinite or the new maul would be fine even if they dealt double their current max damage afterall not only does it need the same pre requisites as the beefalo saddle but it also needs you to kill 9 bosses for its max pontential... stats should not be tied only to how late you get the item or how hard it is to get them but also how enjoyable they keep the game experience and challenge is a part of that. I'm not complaining about this new saddle making beefalo OP or that beefalo shouldnt be tanky, I'm asking if going from 1000 hp to 2500 hp isnt a bit too much in the tankyness departament to the point it takes from the enjoyment of the game, wouldn't 2000 effective hp be enough? Why does the new saddle need to effectively multiply beefalo HP, REGEN and bonus Healing by x 2,5? Wouldn't x2 be enough? It just feels so arbitrary.

 

2 hours ago, KvetekSK said:

For the gloomerang with or without beefalo is not op, though klei should make it so you can only use 1 gloomerang and if you switch it will have the same cooldown as the first one

I didn't say anything about gloomerang being op, I dont find beefalo + gloomerang op, I said that a 2500 hp beefalo with considerable hp regen is too safe and can become even safer with the new possibility of cheap and effective ranged weapons to the point that a beefalo wouldn't need 2500 hp even if the player using it wanted to fight on it. Once again I will try to clarifly: I think beefalo should be tankier just not 2,5x tankier, wouldn't 2x  be enough for example?
 

2 hours ago, KvetekSK said:

The saddle gives you reason to still use beefalos after the rifts are open

But I still had a reason to  use them, I used them as a means of transport, isn't it the main benefit of taming a beefalo? It is the best means of transport for characters that lack teletransportation. You stopped using them after opening a rift? why? 

[GimplyGoose]

I think the saddle is fine. I'm not sure a tank-off vs Possessed varg is the best example to use just because of how low the Varg's HP is. There are other strategies that would be able to accomplish the same thing faster than beefalo tank.

I am happy to see a new saddle for the beefalo and not feeling like I need to switch between glossamer/war all the time is very nice. Honestly, the new saddle is the thing I like the most in the beta right now.

I guess my question for you is if how you would like the saddle to be changed? Would you be OK with it if it didn't have the 60% armor and nothing else changed? Would changing the 60% armor to 50% be good enough for you?

[Primalflower]

lol... that video you posted is the most exciting thing ever. maybe the knockback can stay if the beefalo is this awesome + you can saddle when its angry. I'll just start carrying an ice staff or two to big fights.

[loonreaper]

As a Switch player please Lord keep the saddle the way it is right now. It's like 3x harder to kite on the Switch. Even feeding your beefalo blue mushrooms in the middle of battle just... doesn't work. And I mean that even versus a relatively easy raid boss like Dragonfly after pan-fluting them. I stopped playing Wendy and other beefalo-centric characters because post-rift they were way too easy to kill and once they started attacking you couldn't unrile them. They last exactly three seconds versus a brightshade... The way I see it is instead of Dragonfly killing my beef in 13 hits it becomes 33 hits now. And with the speed boost it makes it easier to kite now. So you better bet I am rushing beefalo taming, the ruins, nightmare werepig,  the chess pieces on day 21,  AFW during winter, the void whatever they're called, then right back to chess pieces on day 41... JUST for this 60% armor and speed boost. 

[WereBruhver]

19 minutes ago, GimplyGoose said:

I think the saddle is fine. I'm not sure a tank-off vs Possessed varg is the best example to use just because of how low the Varg's HP is. There are other strategies that would be able to accomplish the same thing faster than beefalo tank.

It is a good example not because it can kill Possessed Varg but because it shows how much the new beefalo saddle can tank and get away with, I was dealing relatively low single target damage while tanking Possesed varg + 4 horror hounds through their hit stuns and everything they could trow at me and without ever healing and they couldn't outlast me. I don't consider killing varg with it a good strategy, I was showing that if staying in place and taking so much damage like that I could survive... Image in a normal fighting situation where I would be kiting and/or using a ranged weapon how many mistakes I would have to make to feel at risk of being taken down.
 

30 minutes ago, GimplyGoose said:

 Would changing the 60% armor to 50% be good enough for you?

Yes It would, it is exactly what I was trying to say, the only change I would like is for its damage reduction to go from 60% to 50%, 60% is just too tanky, 50% would already be enough for every tankness stat of the beefalo to be doubled instead of x2,5 like 60% reduction, it is perfect otherwise. 

[loonreaper]

1 hour ago, WereBruhver said:

But I still had a reason to  use them, I used them as a means of transport, isn't it the main benefit of taming a beefalo? It is the best means of transport for characters that lack teletransportation. You stopped using them after opening a rift? why? 

I think therein lies the problem. I think the players who use beefalos to counteract their characters' weaknesses are welcoming this saddle fists pumping into the air. You use beefalos for transport only. Fair. But there are a lot of characters who benefit using beefalos as their primary weapon / armor to negate their characters' weakness. Wendy, Maxwell, Wes, Warly, Walter just to name a few. Post-rifts beefalos become almost a liability to use. 

As I listed the progression above, it's a pretty damn expensive saddle to even get and I think the players should be rewarded as such. Just think about what you get just by killing AFW. Arguably the best armor in the game, immunity from shadow creatures or the ability to farm them, a shadow thurible which you can use to farm wood / stone / living logs infinitely....  To get the shadow saddle killing AFW is just the third step. You need to kill Nightmare Werepig just to open the rifts, then you need to kill inkblights, then you need to kill the shadow pieces yet again. 

[NotGabriel]

As a beefalo enthusiast I see nothing wrong with this (don’t tell them dude beefalo sweep)

[WereBruhver]

1 hour ago, loonreaper said:

I think therein lies the problem. I think the players who use beefalos to counteract their characters' weaknesses are welcoming this saddle fists pumping into the air. You use beefalos for transport only. Fair. But there are a lot of characters who benefit using beefalos as their primary weapon / armor to negate their characters' weakness. Wendy, Maxwell, Wes, Warly, Walter just to name a few. Post-rifts beefalos become almost a liability to use. 

I play Wes, I don't play beefalo for transport only:

5 hours ago, WereBruhver said:

Too many layers of tankyness and safety even for someone like me that plays a character that would love to walk around with two gloomerangs in a 2500 hp self regenerating armor that receives x10 bonus healing from food and that also gives me incredible mov speed. 

Clarification: The only change I would like is for its damage reduction to go from 60% to 50%, 60% is just too tanky and it feels so, 50% would already be enough for every tankness stat of the beefalo to be doubled (2x) instead of x2,5 like 60% reduction does, it is perfect otherwise. 

The thing is saying "The saddle gives you reason to still use beefalos after the rifts are open" is not true since after rifts are open I would still keep using beefalo as I means of transport and as a non planar small enemy killing weapon and get down from it and use a Void Cowl + Shadow Reaper when I needed to fight planar enemies and bosses. And this is not the point since I'm not questioning using it as a weapon, I also plan to use it as a weapon with the new saddle in some situations, I'm questioning its excessive tankines: 2500 effective hp, 1,725 effective hp regen per second, 10x effective bonus healing on the fastest means of transportation that isn't a teleport means that when I'm fighting something normaly and kiting or using ranged weapon I would need to make monumental amounts of bad plays to be punished, the only thing I argue is for its damage reduction to change from 60% to 50% so its tankyness stats would still be effectively multiplied by a high number ( 2x ) just not something so out of the curve as 2,5x which not only feels arbitrary but also makes my beefalo feel like it is imortal.

[HowlVoid]

That's cool cause the chance of losing your beefalo in any fight where you can't get off and feed it is extremely high. Which is just about any boss fight you can't panflute. 

How much health do character have again? Oh yeah basically an infinite amount. Did you know I killed Celestial Guardian my first time? Took 20 something football helmets and a ton of jellybeans+healing salves but by gosh I hit my head against that wall until it gave in.

Seems like beefalos Finally caught up, about time.

[HellHeater]

Night armor makes Wilson have 3000 effective hp with 20x  effective healing.

This very endgame item that you claim to be too tanky is weaker than a base character with marble/night armor which are available soon after game starts.

[Kvetevk]

9 hours ago, WereBruhver said:

But I still had a reason to  use them, I used them as a means of transport, isn't it the main benefit of taming a beefalo? It is the best means of transport for characters that lack teletransportation. You stopped using them after opening a rift? why? 

I rather use other speed utilities, even if I have a beefalo, because if it dies, it would be a waste.
Why would you even need fast transportion if you are not gonna go fighting smth, all your resources should be planted in your base and you still have a lot of options for mobility 

If you just want to travel I would suggest wonkey, wx78, woodie, wanda, wortox, winona.

Beefalo is good for transporting heavy objects but not helpful on boats nor figting (if you dont have the wigfrid or shadow saddle)

The game is called Don't Starve Together, so if you play alone I suggest making your world smaller, because the normal size is for multiple people that work together.

9 hours ago, WereBruhver said:

I didn't say anything about gloomerang being op, I dont find beefalo + gloomerang op, I said that a 2500 hp beefalo with considerable hp regen is too safe and can become even safer with the new possibility of cheap and effective ranged weapons to the point that a beefalo wouldn't need 2500 hp even if the player using it wanted to fight on it. Once again I will try to clarifly: I think beefalo should be tankier just not 2,5x tankier, wouldn't 2x  be enough for example?

Enemies with knockback exist and also try playing wx78 with 3 health circuits and dreadstone armor + any healing item, wouldnt that be more tanky than beefalo with the shadow saddle, and you can always play it safe by kitting.

Tanking is the worst thing you can do, because it will cost you resources, you got a point that the beefalo with the shadow saddle is infinite tank machine, and it would be good idea to drain its durability (if you can repair it with the shadow repairing kit)

I havent seen any beefalo rider who isnt kitting with his beefalo, it is such a pain if you lost your trained beefalo, the saddle and bell will just secure your beefalo from dying.

If you use beefalo to tank with any other saddle it will 100% dies in boss fights.

2x tankier = wigfrid saddle
2,5x tankier = shadow saddle
kitting = no dmg

If you dont like for beefalos to be able to survive a boss without kitting, I would suggest saddle durability loss (only on the shadow saddle) if you take dmg on the beefalo

Love to see everyones perspectives, keep it up

[grm9]

14 minutes ago, KvetekSK said:

Why would you even need fast transportion if you are not gonna go fighting smth, all your resources should be planted in your base and you still have a lot of options for mobility

making a base's a waste of time and you can't put all boss spawners, moon quay portal, an archive security pulse etc., making a rift spawn in your base requires spending a lot of time on putting signs on the entire world except 1 place in your base, an ocean treasure spawns in a random place that might not be near your base, you need to go to crabby hermit island to do tasks that require interacting with the house or making some thing on it iirc etc.

18 minutes ago, KvetekSK said:

If you just want to travel I would suggest wonkey, wx78, woodie, wanda, wortox, winona

why pick 1 out of 2 characters that got a speed boost as their only perk if you can get a beefalo when playing as any character to get more perks and only a slightly lower speed boost in comparison to doing that

21 minutes ago, KvetekSK said:

Beefalo is not helpful on figting (if you dont have the wigfrid or shadow saddle)

they were useful for fighting when playing as wendy, maxwell or wes even before those got added

22 minutes ago, KvetekSK said:

The game is called Don't Starve Together, so if you play alone I suggest making your world smaller, because the normal size is for multiple people that work together

no, default world size's fine for playing solo if you get a speed boost or a beefalo

[Kvetevk]

3 minutes ago, grm9 said:

making a base's a waste of time and you can't put all boss spawners, moon quay portal, an archive security pulse etc., making a rift spawn in your base requires spending a lot of time on putting signs on the entire world except 1 place in your base, an ocean treasure spawns in a random place that might not be near your base, you need to go to crabby hermit island to do tasks that require interacting with the house or making some thing on it iirc etc.

I dont think beefalo will help you on water

4 minutes ago, grm9 said:

why pick 1 out of 2 characters that got a speed boost as their only perk if you can get a beefalo when playing as any character to get more perks and only a slightly lower speed boost in comparison to doing that

Character switching is a thing, and also so many characters now have a perk/skill that help them with movement

 

6 minutes ago, grm9 said:

no, default world size's fine for playing solo if you get a speed boost or a beefalo

If you play solo then why making it hard for yourself, it is a sandbox game, just because you dont want to change your settings to fit your playstyle, doesnt mean you need to change your playstyle to fit your settings.

[grm9]

4 hours ago, HellHeater said:

Night armor makes Wilson have 3000 effective hp with 20x  effective healing.

This very endgame item that you claim to be too tanky is weaker than a base character with marble/night armor which are available soon after game starts

wilson has no passive self regen and his armor can break tho, unlike beefalo and a saddle, armor also doesn't decrease planar damage that you take so a wilson'd take 35 damage from bright shade spikes burst (can't realistically get hit because of that but that applies to all planar things so idk what to use as an example) and a beefalo'd take 55, but beefalo'd need to simply not die for 80 seconds after that or get 13.75 hp worth of healing from food and wilson'd need to get 35 hp worth of healing and 18.095% more of a night armor

the saddle'sn't broken op but it does allow you to brainlessly tank without spending resources on a weapon, an armor or healing after taming the beefalo and making the saddle once

9 minutes ago, KvetekSK said:

I dont think beefalo will help you on water

it still helps you with getting materials for crabby hermit quest line and the point was that you can't just put every thing at base

9 minutes ago, KvetekSK said:

Character switching is a thing, and also so many characters now have a perk/skill that help them with movement

i meant why play as wonkey or WX to get a speed boost if you can play as any character and get a beefalo to get a slightly slower speed boost but much more useful perks in comparison to their and them

9 minutes ago, KvetekSK said:

If you play solo then why making it hard for yourself, it is a sandbox game, just because you dont want to change your settings to fit your playstyle, doesnt mean you need to change your playstyle to fit your settings

???

bigger world size doesn't make the game harder, it just makes you get a speed boost but you'd likely do that on a small world too

[Kvetevk]

5 minutes ago, grm9 said:

it still helps you with getting materials for crabby hermit quest line and the point was that you can't just put every thing at base

i meant why play as wonkey or WX to get a speed boost if you can play as any character and get a beefalo to get a slightly slower speed boost but much more useful perks in comparison to their and them

???

bigger world size doesn't make the game harder, it just makes you get a speed boost but you'd likely do that on a small world too

1. If you use beefalo to farm materials, thats okay, but I personaly would rather craft hambat and get those items without beefalo
2. Most characters dont need beefalo, I would only use beefalo if I play: wilson, wendy, warly, walter, wes. Any other character dont rly need beefalo to fight or move around
3. You are saying like its a must to get a beefalo on default world, worm holes exist that is rng based thing, if you make your worlds 2x bigger doesnt mean that it would be better for all to use beefalos at all times, some people like to tame beefalos some dont, If its your own world, do what you want to do in it, but in a public server I have never seen someone who was taming a beefalo just for speed boost

I wanna ask if you rather have rider or ronery beefalo?
 

[grm9]

Just now, KvetekSK said:

1. If you use beefalo to farm materials, thats okay, but I personaly would rather craft hambat and get those items without beefalo

no, i meant getting to things that you get materials out of

1 minute ago, KvetekSK said:

2. Most characters dont need beefalo, I would only use beefalo if I play: wilson, wendy, warly, walter, wes. Any other character dont rly need beefalo to fight or move around

all characters benefit from getting a beefalo

1 minute ago, KvetekSK said:

3. You are saying like its a must to get a beefalo on default world, worm holes exist that is rng based thing, if you make your worlds 2x bigger doesnt mean that it would be better for all to use beefalos at all times, some people like to tame beefalos some dont, If its your own world, do what you want to do in it, but in a public server I have never seen someone who was taming a beefalo just for speed boost

there's hardly a reason to not get an effective 63.33% speed boost that only requires light bulbs, twigs or grass after finding a beefalo and making a saddle and a bell

3 minutes ago, KvetekSK said:

I wanna ask if you rather have rider or ronery beefalo?

ornery if playing as maxwell, rider otherwise

[Kvetevk]

Just now, grm9 said:

no, i meant getting to things that you get materials out of

if you mean like grass and twigs or maybe other things like that, I plant them in my base and have a sinkhole near my base

 

2 minutes ago, grm9 said:

all characters benefit from getting a beefalo

Thats true but its a time consuming process that you need time and materials for it (twigs/grass/lightbulbs) and not all players like to tame beefalos

 

3 minutes ago, grm9 said:

there's hardly a reason to not get an effective 63.33% speed boost that only requires light bulbs, twigs or grass after finding a beefalo and making a saddle and a bell

If you put in it your time and you get tamed beefalo in 20 days, thats great, but not all people know how to tame the beefalo without help
some people would rather take that time and resources on rushing the ruins or just making theire base

 

6 minutes ago, grm9 said:

ornery if playing as maxwell, rider otherwise

ornery is also good on wes and wendy, because they deal 25% dmg, if you are playing with people, rider beefalo could be shared, thats a great thing to have if you play with friends or on public servers, but for people who play alone could rather make the world smaller to not need a beefalo 24/7 to travel around the world.

I doubt that more than 1 person in server is taming beefalo, the resources in the early game are enough for all to tame a beefalos.
In short, if you play with friends, there is at least 1 character who would have some means to help with speed, and if you play alone, its more beneficial to make the world the way you like it

I believe we went off the topic, so I ask you the beefalo enjoyer, what do you think about the shadow saddle, is it op or not, is it worth it or not
grm9

[grm9]

1 minute ago, KvetekSK said:

if you mean like grass and twigs or maybe other things like that, I plant them in my base and have a sinkhole near my base

rocks, logs, grass, twigs, marble, butter flies etc., replanting stuff to base'sn't worth the time unless you're going to play in a world for a lot of time e.g. 500 days or more ig

3 minutes ago, KvetekSK said:

Thats true but its a time consuming process

no, getting a beefalo's faster in comparison to not getting a beefalo if you'll at least play for 15 or more days

4 minutes ago, KvetekSK said:

materials for it (twigs/grass/lightbulbs)

getting 40 light bulbs requires like half a minute if you're picking triple light bulb flowers

6 minutes ago, KvetekSK said:

some people would rather take that time and resources on rushing the ruins or just making theire base

you can do BQ, toad, dfly, AG, werepig and ruins and assemble pieces during 1st autumn when in the process of taming a beefalo and still end up with spare time

7 minutes ago, KvetekSK said:

If you put in it your time and you get tamed beefalo in 20 days, thats great, but not all people know how to tame the beefalo without help

then they can learn how to do that? you also don't spend time on taming a beefalo, you save time through taming a beefalo if you'll play for at least 15 or more days, not playing as WX or walter nor going to sit at base most of the time

10 minutes ago, KvetekSK said:

ornery is also good on wes and wendy, because they deal 25% dmg

ik, i literally mentioned that through 1 of previous messages

14 minutes ago, KvetekSK said:

I doubt that more than 1 person in server is taming beefalo, the resources in the early game are enough for all to tame a beefalos

nah, i've seen like 3 people tame a beefalo on a server at the same time multiple times iirc

14 minutes ago, KvetekSK said:

if you play alone, its more beneficial to make the world the way you like it

you can keep the world big to get more resources and use a beefalo to not get issues with going through it tho, small world also removes the need to predict where a biome'd end up since it's small enough to simply check every where

[Kvetevk]

17 minutes ago, KvetekSK said:

I believe we went off the topic, so I ask you the beefalo enjoyer, what do you think about the shadow saddle, is it op or not, is it worth it or not
grm9

we shall stop arguing about the beefalo and focus on the new saddle, if you want to talk about beefalos and theire upsides and downsides, we can continue in discord or steam.

[grm9]

21 minutes ago, KvetekSK said:

what do you think about the shadow saddle, is it op or not, is it worth it or not

i probably won't use it because it requires waiting for day 27 to get and by then there're usually only like 4 bosses left to kill at most so getting it could end up being a waste of time, useful for people that keep playing after killing all bosses in a world but that's it