The Howlitzer is inferior to the Gloomerang

[HeatAndRun]

At this point Walter needs his exclusive recipe for ammo version spectacler box.

[Maxil20]

16 hours ago, arubaro said:

But dst's progression never was "use this because is the best option"

The “best options” were weapons/items added in vanilla don’t starve (dark swords, hambats, and most of the general armor people use). It took almost 10 years to add items that could actually be better than the items from vanilla.

I understand that the balance of DST was certainly designed for pre rifts, but most of the game loot pre rift is still a vast majority of the game. It’s not like they suddenly added new weapons you could get early on surpass weapons like the dark sword/ham bat in terms of use, unless you really bolt and rush the rifts (which I don’t really feel is the intention for these…?).

[IAmAFurrz]

On 8/26/2024 at 4:11 AM, arubaro said:

But dst's progression never was "use this because is the best option"

this statement doesn't make sense, progression is the entirety of 'getting better/the best options for you'. progression in this game is a bit wack, using hambat for example: it was always the norm, you're not going to tell me someone is beating bosses with spears instead of darkswords or hambats.

progression is 'higher tier of crafting = better items', and harder to get things = better items. the longer you go on the harder things get, and you have subsequently good options to combat new problems that are introduced.

 

On 8/26/2024 at 4:11 AM, arubaro said:

Yes, the rift gear, both sides, are good without any drawback, only upsides which goes against what i loved about dst (except few exceptions of items that excels)

not really? planar armor isnt as good against pure normal dmg bosses since thulecite crown/suit protects more. and bc planar dmg on weapons doesnt get affected by multipliers it is not as good if you use warly buffs. stuff breaking isnt as expensive for what they do, i agree (repair kits are the reason for it since players were tired of having it too grindy to collect the resources), but rift gear being good is fair bc you have gone thru CC and AFW, and are gonna have to deal with tougher bosses, of course they're gonna give options to fight newer threats. 

[arubaro]

19 minutes ago, IAmAFurrz said:

this statement doesn't make sense, progression is the entirety of 'getting better/the best options for you'. progression in this game is a bit wack, using hambat for example: it was always the norm, you're not going to tell me someone is beating bosses with spears instead of darkswords or hambats.

progression is 'higher tier of crafting = better items', and harder to get things = better items. the longer you go on the harder things get, and you have subsequently good options to combat new problems that are introduced

Depends if they can affort the cost

When i play with my friends, which they can join up to 5 noobs, they barely use hambats unless i make the effort of gathering the materials for them. Still, we beat some bosses and, you know what? They use spears because they are cheap

Gladly, this isnt terraria or core keeper with their bland rpg progression.

In dst there are tiers but are tight to their cost or their downsides (for example my friends avoid using dark swords), dst was never about getting a infinity durability (funny enough, with how cheap are kits, all new items feel like infinity durability bull @$%#) golden sword to ditch the previous copper sword. 

Dst progression was about being able to affort costs. When i started learning to clean the ruins and to beat bosses i saved the thulecite gear for bosses while day to day combat i used pig skin helmets or log suits. Later, when you become better, i used thulecite for everything. Klei added bone armor which was good but had their upsides and downsides, the cooldown of their shield made it so other body armors were better depending of the situation or how good you were at certain encounters. Bq crown is another example, it last long, has a nice perk but only has 70% armor. These kind of "progression" is way more interesting for a sandbox, lineal progression is for games like final fantasy or pokemon...or games were basically you win by grinding better numbers and higher levels.

Since doing lineal progression is easier and needs way less creativity or talent, a lot of sandboxes took that route of "make the same #$%@ with different colour and another sprite without thinking about other thing than adding +X points of damage or protection 

30 minutes ago, IAmAFurrz said:

this statement doesn't make sense, progression is the entirety of 'getting better/the best options for you'. progression in this game is a bit wack, using hambat for example: it was always the norm, you're not going to tell me someone is beating bosses with spears instead of darkswords or hambats.

progression is 'higher tier of crafting = better items', and harder to get things = better items. the longer you go on the harder things get, and you have subsequently good options to combat new problems that are introduced.

 

not really? planar armor isnt as good against pure normal dmg bosses since thulecite crown/suit protects more. and bc planar dmg on weapons doesnt get affected by multipliers it is not as good if you use warly buffs. stuff breaking isnt as expensive for what they do, i agree (repair kits are the reason for it since players were tired of having it too grindy to collect the resources), but rift gear being good is fair bc you have gone thru CC and AFW, and are gonna have to deal with tougher bosses, of course they're gonna give options to fight newer threats. 

Im not against rift gear being good but is adding non senses like ranged weapons

Sure, planar armors are better implemented since is 80% (i would reduce it to ~75) so you still might use thulecite or bone armor. Except the damn BS helmet which makes no sense the ammount of perks it has but whatever, klei wont nerf it because the forums will be set on fire

The weapons are the problem because there is no point of using shield of terror, thulecite club or dark swords and not everybody likes to use wolfgang plus voltgoat jelly to kill bosses like they were spiders (and honestly, volt goat jelly is already strong enough with just the BS sword...)

Instead of adding cool perks to compete they simply made them higher damage, little downside or any, cheaper...

They could have added a infuse station to make old weapons planar by wasting rift materials but instead they killed the batbat with thr new maul :/

 

[IAmAFurrz]

On 8/28/2024 at 1:33 AM, arubaro said:

Depends if they can affort the cost

When i play with my friends, which they can join up to 5 noobs, they barely use hambats unless i make the effort of gathering the materials for them. Still, we beat some bosses and, you know what? They use spears because they are cheap

thats because... dst bosses are a joke with more than 1 player. 6 people will decimate anything. and this argument has nothing to do with progression? with more people means less need to get better gear, you each might as well just use 1 helm for a given boss. 

 

On 8/28/2024 at 1:33 AM, arubaro said:

Gladly, this isnt terraria or core keeper with their bland rpg progression.

its the average way to do things, plus in hardmode terraria weapons have more interesting abilities leaving players with more options to choose from

 

On 8/28/2024 at 1:33 AM, arubaro said:

Dst progression was about being able to affort costs. When i started learning to clean the ruins and to beat bosses i saved the thulecite gear for bosses while day to day combat i used pig skin helmets or log suits. Later, when you become better, i used thulecite for everything. Klei added bone armor which was good but had their upsides and downsides, the cooldown of their shield made it so other body armors were better depending of the situation or how good you were at certain encounters. Bq crown is another example, it last long, has a nice perk but only has 70% armor. These kind of "progression" is way more interesting for a sandbox, lineal progression is for games like final fantasy or pokemon...or games were basically you win by grinding better numbers and higher levels.

fair point, however rift hasnt had much time yet, not many options have been added. a lot of the time has been alotted to adding stuff to pre rift as well. so i agree there should be more options than these

 

On 8/28/2024 at 1:33 AM, arubaro said:

Im not against rift gear being good but is adding non senses like ranged weapons

i dont... understand this sentence... is it a question? a statement? what is it supposed to say?

 

On 8/28/2024 at 1:33 AM, arubaro said:

Sure, planar armors are better implemented since is 80% (i would reduce it to ~75) so you still might use thulecite or bone armor. Except the damn BS helmet which makes no sense the ammount of perks it has but whatever, klei wont nerf it because the forums will be set on fire

which helmet? brightshade i assume, its multitude of uitility, but that depends on playstyle. if on surface with moonstorms active at all times, it is good to combat gestalts, and moonstorms, but a lot of people dont have it on as it gets annoying.

but that means in the future they can introduce more armors with better protection as well as harder bosses and world events. think of the current stuff as the pre-rift equivalent of grass suit, and spears

On 8/28/2024 at 1:33 AM, arubaro said:

They could have added a infuse station to make old weapons planar by wasting rift materials but instead they killed the batbat with thr new maul :/

batbat is still a good option, but this is just a progression thing. stuff in the bit before will be outclassed.

On 8/28/2024 at 1:33 AM, arubaro said:

The weapons are the problem because there is no point of using shield of terror, thulecite club or dark swords and not everybody likes to use wolfgang plus voltgoat jelly to kill bosses like they were spiders (and honestly, volt goat jelly is already strong enough with just the BS sword...)

i agree the shield could be better, it really should be an ok alternative to the others. 

and yes of course, the small bit of nuance with physical dmg being unaffected by stat buffs is minor, i never said the new stuff is worse, but that theres some nuance.

 

overall you are not seeing this bit as early parts of the rift progression, as well as assuming these new rift bosses are as hard as it will get. i have faith that the devs know what they will be designing in the future, the pessimistic view of 'dst has changed the old stuff was more interesting' is all i can deduce from your arguments

[mmmmmmmmmmm]

On 8/25/2024 at 7:46 PM, Ohan said:

Potential Howlitzer buffs aside, i think the gloomerang needs to be made weaker and/or more expensive. The crafting recipe is waaaay too cheap and so is repairing it.  

I mean, that is a good idea, but it might be a repetition of the brightshades bomb situation, everyone said it was too good, and currently, its not even worth it to make unless you have  a LOT of surplus and just want to waste some

[arubaro]

7 hours ago, IAmAFurrz said:

thats because... dst bosses are a joke with more than 1 player. 6 people will decimate anything. and this argument has nothing to do with progression? with more people means less need to get better gear, you each might as well just use 1 helm for a given boss. 

 

its the average way to do things, plus in hardmode terraria weapons have more interesting abilities leaving players with more options to choose from

 

fair point, however rift hasnt had much time yet, not many options have been added. a lot of the time has been alotted to adding stuff to pre rift as well. so i agree there should be more options than these

 

i dont... understand this sentence... is it a question? a statement? what is it supposed to say?

 

which helmet? brightshade i assume, its multitude of uitility, but that depends on playstyle. if on surface with moonstorms active at all times, it is good to combat gestalts, and moonstorms, but a lot of people dont have it on as it gets annoying.

but that means in the future they can introduce more armors with better protection as well as harder bosses and world events. think of the current stuff as the pre-rift equivalent of grass suit, and spears

batbat is still a good option, but this is just a progression thing. stuff in the bit before will be outclassed.

i agree the shield could be better, it really should be an ok alternative to the others. 

and yes of course, the small bit of nuance with physical dmg being unaffected by stat buffs is minor, i never said the new stuff is worse, but that theres some nuance.

 

overall you are not seeing this bit as early parts of the rift progression, as well as assuming these new rift bosses are as hard as it will get. i have faith that the devs know what they will be designing in the future, the pessimistic view of 'dst has changed the old stuff was more interesting' is all i can deduce from your arguments

I understand that you like it but for me these design changes philosophy are what i dont like of sandbox games and i have played enough to know nothing will change my mind 

[00petar00]

On 8/25/2024 at 5:46 PM, Ohan said:

Ive seen people say gloomerang has 150 uses and its fully repaired by a single repair kit. 

I feel like it is blown out of proportion that it needs a nerf, it has a decent amount of uses but on how many enemies will you get to hit from max range after first strike and they start moving to you?

On 8/25/2024 at 5:46 PM, Ohan said:

Potential Howlitzer buffs aside, i think the gloomerang needs to be made weaker and/or more expensive. The crafting recipe is waaaay too cheap and so is repairing it.  

Same can be said about every other post rift gear item. I thought this was one of the reasons to activate rifts, If items were not repairable and expensive what would be the point?

On 8/25/2024 at 5:46 PM, Ohan said:

i thought maybe it could require a guardian horn since its kind of shaped like a boomerang. 

I can never get enough horns for the amount of houndius shootius I build. This would need to be solved If more recipes required horns.

I have a decent idea, what about a new rift boss variant for caves? Shadow Ancient Guardian that spawns after cave rifts are activated only when normal AG is dead with 5-10 day respawn timer so it can be reasonable to farm or 20 days but drops 2-3 horns. When FW is killed he despawns and normal AG spawns.

I would really want to see this because AG has always been a very weak boss so I really want a difficult AG fight and besides more horns it can have new rift gear like maul, bell or gloomerang in drop chance for one slot so one of these items is picked in addition to the normal loot.

On 8/25/2024 at 5:46 PM, Ohan said:

Or the boomerang could drain HP and/or sanity for every swing. 

or repair kits could be made less efficient on it, only repairing 50% instead of 100%. Its total uses could be lowered too to be honest 150 is very high. 

That would ruin the item, I remember in beta brightshade bombs were much cheaper and that is how the recipe should've been but a lot of people complained without understanding the game well enough that it was nerfed. What can be nerfed is the number of uses or damage by 1-5 and it would still be decent item but I think that in its current state it is fine.

The problem I have is that Howlitzer is so good but requires varg farm so it feels like player is punished for using a powerful range weapon. I can understand not wanting range weapons in the game but that bridge has already been crossed and there's no turning back. Walter was in the game before Howlitzer but his range weapon required ammo and was quite weak.

Another point I would like to make is that surface rifts already have bearger bin/Howlitzer/Elastispacier and we need an alternative really powerful item or multiple decent or situationally strong items that everyone would want, gloomerang/maul/bell/saddle can be that for caves since I'd argue that bearger bin is more useful individually but these items in their current state together can compete. Not everyone is a beefalo tamer so it is good to have strong items that everyone would want.

On 8/25/2024 at 8:44 PM, chirsg said:

But effectively, the gloomerang has 150 "ammo" per slot. And one repair kit provides another 150 ammo. And the DPS is close enough to put them as "even" 

It's really unfortunate for how fun the gloomerang has been to use, but it has to be looked into. 

We still have no idea what klei plans to do with rifts, we have been told a long time ago when we complained about brightshades that there would be many more mobs so they wouldn't be so overwhelming but nothing has changed.

Surface rifts have bearger bin, howlitzer and elastispacier that are really good but cave rifts on the other hand before this update weren't even worth activating in my opinion. If gloomerang is nerfed like brightshade bombs we only have maul for players that don't tame beefalo.

[IAmAFurrz]

6 hours ago, arubaro said:

I understand that you like it but for me these design changes philosophy are what i dont like of sandbox games and i have played enough to know nothing will change my mind 

its not any change, its just a new era of progression that we haven't seen even 1/5th the way of, your assumptions of klei being incompetent are not gonna let you have fun or think positively about the future of the game

[arubaro]

11 minutes ago, IAmAFurrz said:

its not any change, its just a new era of progression that we haven't seen even 1/5th the way of, your assumptions of klei being incompetent are not gonna let you have fun or think positively about the future of the game

Isnt about being incompetent,  never said that, more like the opposite like they came with a great way of adding lineal progression without ruining much the early and mid game encounters unlike all the unispired games that are terraria wanna be like core keeper or valheim 

Is just that what made me adicted to dst was to dont have lineal progression at all and how, even the lowest tier gear, had an use because the balance of cost/power/downsides and, unless they balance the cost of rift gear

they said that repair kits cost being 1 of each material and totally repairing the item were provisional but i doubt they will nerf knowing how the community reacts to balance changes

I dont enjoy using most of the time just 1 cheap set of items when before i had a wider variety. This might change but i talk about what i see, not about "maybes.." "ifs" or any imaginary scenario.  Feefback and opinions should be giving today, not when they already make decisions and develop the content