What do you think is the most reasonable anti-knockback design for beefalo riding?

[NOOOBU]

Beefalo riding is one of the fun and popular design to play in DST, but since Klei has added more and more knockback attacks to the game, beefalo riding combat seems to be getting harder and less playable, just onec knockback shot can make you out. No mistakes allowed combat design is not well with many players.

There has been a lot of expectation of new saddles or designs to provide knockback resistance in the future, but with the latest Shadow saddles, this expectation has not been realized, so we can discuss what you think is the most reasonable design to make beefalo combat more useful in future versions, but not too useless or too over-whleming.

Here is another thread about riding knockback I found:

 

And here is a vote in Tieba, you guys can see some attitudes from CN forums.

[NotGabriel]

Give knockback resistance to Wigfrid’s battle saddle, the shadow saddle now outclasses its niche so knockback immunity would give it that niche that falls in line with Wigfrid’s commander helm. That way the shadow saddle would be the better option for high risk playstyles while the battle saddle would be better to allow a few hits without major consequence.

it should be mentioned that any of the combat saddles allow you to remount an aggro beefalo, so getting hit isn’t the end of the world. Always carry a pan flute or speed boosters to quickly and safely remount before the boss gets its next hit in.

[Pet Rock]

I think universally the beefalo should be knocked back a bit and stunned the first time it is hit by a knockback attack without dismounting the player. If it is hit again within a short time, the vanilla behavior would occur. This provides a grace period of sorts that makes the first hit less punishing

Could just be applied to the battle saddles as well if this is too overpowered

[Mysterious box]

13 minutes ago, Pet Rock said:

I think universally the beefalo should be knocked back a bit and stunned the first time it is hit by a knockback attack without dismounting the player. If it is hit again within a short time, the vanilla behavior would occur. This provides a grace period of sorts that makes the first hit less punishing

Could just be applied to the battle saddles as well if this is too overpowered

I agree beefalo shouldn't be completely immune to knockback passively but instead punish you for being hit too often against these threats. Something along the lines of the Woby buck timer between the first and second hit should work.

[NOOOBU]

8 minutes ago, NotGabriel said:

it should be mentioned that any of the combat saddles allow you to remount an aggro beefalo

Actually, because of ornery's 45 obedience, you still need to feed it fully before combat. Only the battle saddle can not provide stable insurance. Double-locked seems not a good enough design here.

Just now, Mysterious box said:

I agree beefalo shouldn't be completely immune to knockback passively but instead punish you for being hit too often against these threats.

Totally agreed.

[NotGabriel]

Just now, NOOOBU said:

Actually, because of ornery's 45 obedience, you still need to feed it fully before combat. Only the battle saddle can not provide stable insurance. Double-locked seems not a good enough design here.

If you forget about the beefalo’s obedience stat before going into a boss fight that’s kinda on you though, ornery beefalo are the only ones with that requirement for a reason.

beefalo riding is inherently a very safe and cost effective way to kill bosses. Mechanics like knockback and feeding your ornery push the playstyle from being mindlessly the best to be more high risk high reward. 

You could deal with feeding your beefalo before each ride and maxing its obedience before a long/dangerous fight, or you could trade that sweet sweet damage for the safety of a rider or default. You could use the War Saddle’s slower speed for the sweet sweet damage or you could play it safe and use a Glossamer saddle at no downside.

While I do think there should be *some* kind of knockback resistance/immunity item, I don’t think it should be attached to a saddle that’s already very bloated with stats. I mean the shadow saddle alone already completely shafts 3 of the 4 current saddles. The high risk high reward assessment crumbles at the sight of this portable nightmare throne.

This is all coming from someone who gets very personally attached to their shaggy buddies, it just doesn’t sit well with me having beefalo be *THAT* good. They’re already great damage, speed, and armor without having to put in any of the resource cost for constant crafting of weapons, mags, and armor.

but trust me, I get where you’re coming from and would not be upset if we did get that coveted knockback immunity, just so we can take our fuzzy pals all the way to the endgame

[Ohan]

I was excited to see the inclusion of a planar saddle but after playing with it i dont think its going to change much for me tbh. And ive been an avid beef rider for years. 

Even if it had knockback immunity the damage to planar entities is just way too low for me to consider using. 50 vs shadow and 55 vs lunar. 

thats like 20-30 points (or more) lower than handheld planar weapons.. 

pre-repairable weapons and armor beef riding was a nice way to forego constant expensive weapon and armor recrafting but rift equipment has totally changed that so i dont feel like beef combat has much to offer anymore. 
 

Planar system has devalued beefalo combat in huge ways and im not sure if and how it could be fixed. 

[abrocator]

First of all I question why so many mobs and bosses have knockback now. Apparently the 2000HP rabbit king has it… why?

The current state of things might be fine since you can still remount an aggroed beefalo (as mentioned). (Unless you want to dodge with the glossamer saddle or you are just travelling and get surprised eaten by inkblights you are probably using a “fight” saddle against knockback enemies.) It isn’t a death sentence. But combining the fall on your butt animation plus the remount animation does add a lot of time. Although I haven’t checked if you get a short animation if you are wearing knockback resistance gear. I guess you do.

Maybe a chest armor piece with knockback resistance could protect against knockback. Then you need to sacrifice the chest slot instead of just wearing a helmet. You could also lose a little armor durability.

Edit: I would prefer a simple change if anything was to be changed. I wouldn’t like some kind of setup where you have to switch to a specific saddle for knockback resistance and then switch back again for pure damage output or something. 

1 hour ago, NOOOBU said:

Actually, because of ornery's 45 obedience, you still need to feed it fully before combat. Only the battle saddle can not provide stable insurance. Double-locked seems not a good enough design here.

 

I’m beginning to question how useful ornery is post-rift (late late game). It’s apparently great for rushing bosses but late game you have to babysit its obedience so much. I don’t know if I want to use two steamed twigs from my bearger bin every time I want to go into hot situations with a beefalo.

[chirsg]

I can't format my reply to be under yours.

But if you're talking about off saddle combat with KB resist, marble suit does that.

 

3 minutes ago, abrocator said:

Maybe a chest armor piece with knockback resistance could protect against knockback. Then you need to sacrifice the chest slot instead of just wearing a helmet. You could also lose a little armor durability.

[Ohan]

11 minutes ago, abrocator said:

First of all I question why so many mobs and bosses have knockback now.

Same im getting sick of it tbh. 

first couple of fights vs shark boy was so rough i felt like a ping pong ball get tossed around every which way.. 

and now if u happen to misstep vs wormboss u can get endlessly stunlocked and juggled around in between its body segments until u die or get swallowed…

13 minutes ago, abrocator said:

I’m beginning to question how useful ornery is post-rift (late late game). It’s apparently great for rushing bosses

Ornery beef r done for imo. 

Depending on the survivor i will still start a world by taming an ornery because it makes everything pre rifts more comfortable but post rifts and once i have a beefalo brush ill tame a rider and kill the ornery 

they just become a useless hassle 

[Juejuezi]

As a dst player played for over 6k hrs and I think a bridle holding in hand,which is made of rope and pig skin or somewhat is the most doable anti-knockback solution

[abrocator]

15 minutes ago, Ohan said:

Depending on the survivor i will still start a world by taming an ornery because it makes everything pre rifts more comfortable but post rifts and once i have a beefalo brush ill tame a rider and kill the ornery 

Hah, I’m so beefalo-brained that I even tamed an ornery as Wigfrid because they’re more versatile early game (I can’t be bothered to unmount and remount so much for petty fights). But later I got a rider. Now that rider died to mob mentality (why on Earth is this a thing for tamed beefalos) and rift frog rain, I tamed a default beefalo. I’m planning to use the shadow saddle for 50+ damage on a never-hungry beefalo.

Maybe I’ll miss the speed. And I could always use the new revive item if a hypothetical new rider beefalo dies. But max speed rider (glossamer saddle, no remount in battle) is what caused that death in the first place. It’s nice with a speedy taxi but I don’t want to babysit my taxis anymore.

[Primalflower]

I am not in a hurry to increase the planar damage that the beefalo do, beefalo have sort of always been on the lower end of damage numbers, so them doing considerably less than the usual brightshade/void cloth junk is fine by me. You've always been trading damage for the safety and comfort of a whole cow between you and the enemy.

I think it would be a little limiting for only a specific tendency of domesticated beefalo to be resistant to knockback, because default and ornery beefalo both have their distinct places in Beefalo Combat, especially since I am fully convinced there will only be more knockback mobs as the days go by. If one is the dedicated knockback-resistant tendency, the other will only become worse and worse comparatively.

I think just having to switch saddles before going into a fight with knockback is an acceptable compromise, and I really thought that was the draw the shadow saddle was supposed to have. Now, do note, when I say resistant to knockback, I am by no means describing the beefalo not getting knocked around - I am merely describing the player not getting knocked off the beefalo entirely as a result. I don't really care either way if the player gets knocked around or stunned momentarily by enemies, more i just dis-like the dis-mount.

[Kevinnator]

It'd be neat if wearing armour that would give you knockback resistance (like marble armour or Wigfrid's commander helmet) would prevent you from being knocked off of your Beefalo. Or at least get like a damage treshhold before being knocked off like how Walter only gets knocked off of Woby if he takes enough damage.

[NOOOBU]

On 8/25/2024 at 4:22 AM, Kevinnator said:

Or at least get like a damage treshhold before being knocked off like how Walter only gets knocked off of Woby if he takes enough damage.

Great, at least we know where to pull the reference animation from.

[Evelo]

Knockback makes me happy. You picked a character, not a beefalo. Suffer the consequences. (Even if there is almost no consequence)