Crab King entirely prevents me from progressing the game

[gamehun20]

3 minutes ago, Evelo said:

However I saw that if you sandwich a boat between two Fishing Trawlers, you can avoid being pushed back. Going to have to test that since that could trivialize the fight with ease, potentially.

Geysers make holes in your boat if you do that iirc

[Dwight34]

1 hour ago, Cassielu said:

I was confused.

You cheese the old Crab King, obviously you're not the type of player who hates cheese, so why don't you cheese the new Crab King? Bee Mine cheese still works, and there are many new cheese to make it.

CK has mobs that attack things now, don't bees just get easily killed?

[DegenerateFurry]

1 hour ago, Mike23Ua said:

Maybe this is just my personal opinion on this but, I really and I mean REALLY don’t think I would consider something as “cheese” if it’s a Weapon that’s found in the games dedicated weapons category tab and intended to actually be used as a “Weapon”

Yeah, I agree with you. People in this game's community (at least on this forum) are way too quick to call something "cheese". It's a really stupid form of elitism to afflict yourself with in a survival sandbox game where there's supposed to be lots of options.

[Mysterious box]

9 minutes ago, DegenerateFurry said:

Yeah, I agree with you. People in this game's community (at least on this forum) are way too quick to call something "cheese". It's a really stupid form of elitism to afflict yourself with in a survival sandbox game where there's supposed to be lots of options.

Cheese usually means using a interaction the game didn't account for we called the bee method cheese because crab king clearly wasn't designed to handle them. There's no reason not to use cheese if it's what people want though like the dfly walls.

If I had to say the only real downside to cheese is it often prevents newer players from learning how deal with things properly.

[DegenerateFurry]

44 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

If I had to say the only real downside to cheese is it often prevents newer players from learning how deal with things properly.

I disagree. There is no "proper" method in a game with as many characters with as many different abilities as this game has. Was Crab King designed with Wickerbottom's bees in mind? Definitely not, those came out way later. Is it "cheese" for her to use them against him? Definitely not. It's simply another option. 

Another example: Bee Queen. Was she designed to be fought with such powerful tools as Maxwell's shadow prison? Nope. Is it "cheese" to fight her as Maxwell while utilizing the options available to him? Also no. 

Don't Starve Together is like math: there's many methods to reach the same conclusion and all of them that work consistently are valid. Doing things the most basic way possible, which is to say, just holding F and periodically kiting - which some people seem to view as the only non-"cheese" way to fight most bosses - is only one method. Summoning an army of Treeguards and letting them kill Misery Toadstool for you as Woodie is also a valid method. Neither is more "proper". 

[Mysterious box]

2 minutes ago, DegenerateFurry said:

I disagree. There is no "proper" method in a game with as many characters with as many different abilities as this game has. Was Crab King designed with Wickerbottom's bees in mind? Definitely not, those came out way later. Is it "cheese" for her to use them against him? Definitely not. It's simply another option. 

Another example: Bee Queen. Was she designed to be fought with such powerful tools as Maxwell's shadow prison? Nope. Is it "cheese" to fight her as Maxwell while utilizing the options available to him? Also no. 

Don't Starve Together is like math: there's many methods to reach the same conclusion and all of them that work consistently are valid. Doing things the most basic way possible, which is to say, just holding F and periodically kiting - which some people seem to view as the only non-"cheese" way to fight most bosses - is only one method. Summoning an army of Treeguards and letting them kill Misery Toadstool for you as Woodie is also a valid method. Neither is more "proper". 

Having alternatives doesn't mean there doesn't exist a proper way for example pillars are the intended way to be ancient guardian but you don't have to use them. The point I'm getting at is if the cheese trivializes the fight the player doesn't learn from the experience this is fine if it's locked to a specific character however as the player is always aware that a perk is tied to that character it becomes less of a issue at least in my opinion. This however doesn't mean I feel they need to go away.

Also I'd add that if the cheese is overwhelmingly easier than other methods it limits the creativity in how people approach these fights

[ChintzyGnat]

Only cheese I call cheese is when you kill the ai of the mob your cheesing. Ie toad if you get him stuck too far. Larvae with dfly (I'm still gonna use the wall lol). Maybe antion with Abigail but I'm not too sure if I'd consider that cheese.

[Echsrick]

6 hours ago, Danila6300 said:

When the tower just started to puncture the boat, you need to quickly start hitting it and it will immediately return back under the water. 

i never seen the tower "puncture" it just...there, instandly destroying the boat

[Cassielu]

10 hours ago, Dwight34 said:

CK has mobs that attack things now, don't bees just get easily killed?

For some reason they only agrro characters and monsters, they wouldn't attack bees even if they're attacked by bees.

And bees can ignore the Crab King's ice barrier.

I could even say, cheese him is even easier than before.

10 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

it’s a Weapon that’s found in the games dedicated weapons category tab and intended to actually be used as a “Weapon”

Did Klei really know that? It is clear that they did not consider any interaction with bee mine when making Crab King

[DegenerateFurry]

5 hours ago, Echsrick said:

i never seen the tower "puncture" it just...there, instandly destroying the boat

Question: do you only fight Crab King using grass rafts? I think it does instantly delete grass rafts, or at least it did.

[Mike23Ua]

1 hour ago, Cassielu said:

For some reason they only agrro characters and monsters, they wouldn't attack bees even if they're attacked by bees.

And bees can ignore the Crab King's ice barrier.

I could even say, cheese him is even easier than before.

Did Klei really know that? It is clear that they did not consider any interaction with bee mine when making Crab King

I mean it’s a big stationary crab with limited attack range and NO Mobility…

Im pretty sure Klei took bee mines into account.

If they felt the mines were too powerful they would nerf them by adding new animations to either let him swat at them in the air (possibly can distract him from healing or attacking) OR let the crab minion towers fire at them-

Either Way… If Klei did make the bee mines less effective it is still a completely and totally STATIONARY Boss, bring enough gunpowder and it’s as good as dead.

[Dwight34]

2 hours ago, Cassielu said:

For some reason they only agrro characters and monsters, they wouldn't attack bees even if they're attacked by bees.

And bees can ignore the Crab King's ice barrier.

I could even say, cheese him is even easier than before.

Did Klei really know that? It is clear that they did not consider any interaction with bee mine when making Crab King

The bee cheese is utter trash now, tried it, the bees get distracted way too easily by the claws and by random sea mobs (which really should not happen during the boss fight, it's so insanely stupid and proves Klei did not test the fight that some random shark or even sharkS can come ruin your fight for no reason, and this time a gnarwail attracted the bees attention and destroyed them). Gunpowder might work, but only with boats placed right in CK's face, since the ice platform doesn't work, I'll never get why Klei has such visceral hatred towards gunpowder, why is the range so stupidly small, a massive explosion that can cause earthquakes somehow has less range than a bee.

[lowercase skye]

Hey there, I understand your frustration and I shared these feelings a LOT when I first started trying to fight new Crab King. The thing about him is that, as an ocean boss, he tests a lot of skills that not only do most of us not have honed to such a degree, but the game otherwise never asks of us. You may have to rethink your approach and try to twist and contort your brain to get into the right mindset for him, even if it might be a bit annoying since previously you didn't have to even think about him at all. Here's a couple tips that helped me out a lot:

- Use bumpers! Shell bumpers would probably be adequate, but you can upgrade to CK bumpers afterwards. Whenever he summons waves to push you back, you can use the momentum from the waves to help you quickly row over and RAM right into the nearest tower, then turn right around and ram into the one in the opposite direction, getting rid of both towers that could target you right when the ice platform has just spawned. This lets you take care of the towers easily, and removes leaks from the fight entirely.
- Consider an archaic boat: It's a bit out of the way if you don't already like treasure hunting, but the archaic boat you can get from sunken treasures has double the health of a regular boat and is more resistant to leaks and just damage in general. It'll give you a lot more leeway, like fighting with a football helmet vs fighting with no armor.

[grm9]

3 minutes ago, Dwight34 said:

Gunpowder might work, but only with boats placed right in CK's face

you do realise that gun powder deals damage even if you didn't put 9 things into CK yet and it isn't attacking? put only pearl in, use 40 gun powder, extinguish boat, wait for 30 seconds for explosives resistance to reset and use 20 more

[Jakepeng99]

17 hours ago, arubaro said:

You dont need to read the wiki to know what does every gem... just a bit of experimentation since the effect is clear at the 1st sight 

Not really. Thats only doable in creative mode realistically.

[Dwight34]

2 minutes ago, grm9 said:

you do realise that gun powder deals damage even if you didn't put 9 things into CK yet and it isn't attacking? put only pearl in, use 40 gun powder, extinguish boat, wait for 30 seconds for explosives resistance to reset and use 20 more

If that's true that makes no sense with how the game presents it, and sadly gunpowder doesn't allow for experimentation with how massively costly it is

 

4 minutes ago, finn from human said:

Hey there, I understand your frustration and I shared these feelings a LOT when I first started trying to fight new Crab King. The thing about him is that, as an ocean boss, he tests a lot of skills that not only do most of us not have honed to such a degree, but the game otherwise never asks of us. You may have to rethink your approach and try to twist and contort your brain to get into the right mindset for him, even if it might be a bit annoying since previously you didn't have to even think about him at all. Here's a couple tips that helped me out a lot:

- Use bumpers! Shell bumpers would probably be adequate, but you can upgrade to CK bumpers afterwards. Whenever he summons waves to push you back, you can use the momentum from the waves to help you quickly row over and RAM right into the nearest tower, then turn right around and ram into the one in the opposite direction, getting rid of both towers that could target you right when the ice platform has just spawned. This lets you take care of the towers easily, and removes leaks from the fight entirely.
- Consider an archaic boat: It's a bit out of the way if you don't already like treasure hunting, but the archaic boat you can get from sunken treasures has double the health of a regular boat and is more resistant to leaks and just damage in general. It'll give you a lot more leeway, like fighting with a football helmet vs fighting with no armor.

I have tried an archaic boat, even with CK bumper kits (from a previous non-pearled fight) but since in 1 rotation it took down my boat health by 250 (not even with much boosted canons) and those towers actively target and destroy easily your bumper, I realized those towers are objectively ******** and archaic boats aren't worth bringing into the fight. The biggest issue of the fight is what the hell are you supposed to do once the ice platform goes down? Is there a timer or do you need to bring CK's health down to a certain point for the fight to continue? Should I slowly bait all the claws to kill them one by one then take care of CK, or clear 2 towers and then attack CK dodging the claws as best I can?

CK has AFW's flaws on steroids in that it's impossible to understand how his phases work without decompiling the source code, and while AFW has clear descriptions on wikis, CK doesn't as of yet.

[Jakepeng99]

1 minute ago, Dwight34 said:

If that's true that makes no sense with how the game presents it, and sadly gunpowder doesn't allow for experimentation with how massively costly it is

 

I have tried an archaic boat, even with CK bumper kits (from a previous non-pearled fight) but since in 1 rotation it took down my boat health by 250 (not even with much boosted canons) and those towers actively target and destroy easily your bumper, I realized those towers are objectively ******** and archaic boats aren't worth bringing into the fight. The biggest issue of the fight is what the hell are you supposed to do once the ice platform goes down? Is there a timer or do you need to bring CK's health down to a certain point for the fight to continue? Should I slowly bait all the claws to kill them one by one then take care of CK, or clear 2 towers and then attack CK dodging the claws as best I can?

CK has AFW's flaws on steroids in that it's impossible to understand how his phases work without decompiling the source code, and while AFW has clear descriptions on wikis, CK doesn't as of yet.

Try using followers, like bunnymen or pigmen.

[Dwight34]

3 minutes ago, Jakepeng99 said:

Try using followers, like bunnymen or pigmen.

Can work, but makes the already chaotic, stressful, unfair and unfun fight even more chaotic with followers blocking you, especially since any maneuvering requires perfect precision to place a boat or move around

[arubaro]

1 hour ago, Jakepeng99 said:

Not really. Thats only doable in creative mode realistically.

??? Rollbacks exists

[Reiko24]

1 hour ago, Dwight34 said:

If that's true that makes no sense with how the game presents it, and sadly gunpowder doesn't allow for experimentation with how massively costly it is

 

I have tried an archaic boat, even with CK bumper kits (from a previous non-pearled fight) but since in 1 rotation it took down my boat health by 250 (not even with much boosted canons) and those towers actively target and destroy easily your bumper, I realized those towers are objectively ******** and archaic boats aren't worth bringing into the fight. The biggest issue of the fight is what the hell are you supposed to do once the ice platform goes down? Is there a timer or do you need to bring CK's health down to a certain point for the fight to continue? Should I slowly bait all the claws to kill them one by one then take care of CK, or clear 2 towers and then attack CK dodging the claws as best I can?

CK has AFW's flaws on steroids in that it's impossible to understand how his phases work without decompiling the source code, and while AFW has clear descriptions on wikis, CK doesn't as of yet.

 

1. Attack CK, you can kill claws that come too close to you, but don't go out of your way to destroy them.

Also, ignore the towers. Just repair the boat. Do not boost the cannons at all, use different gems. Boosting the cannons is the worst thing you can do.

2. When he spawns the ice platform, just go and attack him. Do not target towers, claws, or anything. Just him.

3. Ice platform starts to disappear - run to your boat, repair it, continue fight on boat, all while ignoring towers and killing claws that come too close.

4. Repeat.

 

At least that's how I would do it. It makes you not need any additional boats, any complicated movement or anything in this regard. That's why I thought you were trolling, but I guess I was mistaken and should have thought about how you can just not know how to fight him. Sorry.

 

Edit: Ignore towers, unless one tries to surface INSIDE your boat, then kill it fast.

[Mike23Ua]

1 hour ago, arubaro said:

??? Rollbacks exists

Rollbacks (at least on Xbox) have a known history of corrupting game save data, and not just for that one world, but all of the games saved worlds.

It is far far too risky to fail and rollback a billion times trying to learn an annoying boss then it is to just ignore the boss altogether and just enjoy the parts of the game outside of that that are accessible to You.

I realize that’s a flaw with playing on Console, as PC players can back up multiple save files of the same game world, and also play in Admin Commands mode..

But it’s still far too risky to say “Rollback exists” when it’s NOT a viable option.

Now what WOULD be a Viable option is adding something like Sonic Origins Plus or Trinity Fusions “Boss Rush Mode”

This allows the player to skip directly to playing & practicing the specific boss they want to fight (and the mode even sometimes gives them the resources they might need to fight it with) without having to invest literal hours of their time into finding the boss, prepping items to fight said boss etc…

For example: you can fight the second to last boss of Trinity Fusion in boss rush mode without also having to play through the 14 randomly generated stages prior to reaching it.

And that is something DST really really REALLY needs, if players could “practice” fighting bosses without the risk of losing their long-term game saves trying to learn Kiting patterns and most effective ways to fight them.

[Jakepeng99]

1 hour ago, arubaro said:

??? Rollbacks exists

Your not gonna know what the gems do without asking someone else. Not sure if you will know to insert gems in the first place.

[arubaro]

2 hours ago, Jakepeng99 said:

Your not gonna know what the gems do without asking someone else. Not sure if you will know to insert gems in the first place.

Again, you can prepare the fight, bring a bunch of gems and do rollbacks to test 

About not knowing that you need to insert gems.. sure,  some people may not know. The truth is that i knew it because i saw the post with the preview that shown a CK with socketed light blue gems

[Echsrick]

10 hours ago, DegenerateFurry said:

Question: do you only fight Crab King using grass rafts? I think it does instantly delete grass rafts, or at least it did.

the random puplic server i was on dit use grass rafts, guess because they are smaller and cant get holes from random damage

[Vinja]

So because this is the internet most people here are just gonna mock you and laugh about how bad you are because they've all beaten crab king blindfolded no hit on day 3 no healing no science blah blah blah.

The thing you have to remember is this forum is the worst place to get a feeling of what the community thinks because the casual player doesn't visit this place. This place is for people with too much time on their hands, people who gauge your worth by how fast you've speedran all the bosses or which character you main. Some folks here might disagree and cry about that but they're wrong.

I play this game on playstation and do a lot of pub servers with random players and I also play this game with my fiance and sister who neither of them watch YouTube videos or anything like that, just very casual players who think the core game is fun. You're not alone, the people I've talked to who have made it that far tend to agree that new crab king is stupid hard. I actually did the fight with my sister and fiance last weekend and we had a lot of struggles with it as well. Using boats on console feels terrible. You can tell that not a single person on the klei team actually plays console. I wouldn't even believe they test things on console, period. If they disagreed with me I'd think they were lying, it's that bad.

The console version has no access to mods, so there's a constant lag that you have to deal with. All of these issues persist on ps5 btw. Pan flutes simply do not work on console. Once in a while they'll work as advertised but for the most part the pan flute will miss enemies that it should hit or it'll take longer than it's supposed to in order to cast, and you'll get stuck in an animation and hit and it won't work but will still use up 10% when on pc it takes like half a second to use and never seems to just not work also some enemies will sleep fpr how long they'resupposed to but some will fall asleep then instantly wake bacl up even witbout being attacked and no one even near them, pan flute just feels terrible on console. Trying to repair a boat on console is stupid hard, because the poorly developed targeting system targets everything but the boat when you're hovering over your boards. The game is constantly lagging as I've said before, which cost us a couple runs because the lag made both my sister and fiance fall through a crack as the ice was breaking as they were jumping on the boat even though there was an ice raft that spawned right under them next to boat. Beyond all the annoying BS, the fight is kinda complex. You have to manage your boat, repair kits, new boats, boards to repair,  pan flute,  armor,  healing,  cannon towers,  crab arms,  all of these things at once which requires a decent amount of skill to get it all down. The people here will pretend like they were born with the ability to kill crab king but the reality is you're all mostly good players with far more play time than the average person and a lot more practice. You're going to be good at these systems and managing many complex things. Casual players aren't as good and to them it's very overwhelming. It doesn't help that there's no creative mode or mods on console so there's no way to practice other than play a world all the way to crab king and manually do all the prep work,  literally hours of work just to be able to practice the boss by starting the fight then rolling back to practice again. On pc you can just spawn in all the **** you need for crab king, teleport to him and practice the fight till you have it down. Casuals don't know how to do that, hell they don't even know how to find crab king or start the fight. 

So what does this all boil down to? It only took us two damage phases to kill crab king because we had three players with good gear,  but even with it going that fast,  all of the bs we had to deal with from the game being laggy and feeling clunky made the experience not fun at all and my sister and fiance were so frustrated they said they never wanted to fight the boss again.

So congratulations klei, that's the casual player experience you cooked up. OP isn't the only one that doesn't like this fight. I can see why people do like it because on paper it's a lot more engaging than the old fight and if you're a good player you likely enjoy the challenge, I certainly thought the new fight was cool. But there are a lot of casual players that don't like it, it's too complicated with too many elements to micromanage, and doing it on a boat on the ocean makes it so much worse. I couldn't imagine how either my sister or fiance would have done it on their own without me to manage everything for them or three players to deal damage so the fight is shorter.