What do the characters fear the most? Each character having an exclusive nightmare creature?

[arubaro]

Would be cool to have more insanity/enlightement interactions but i think that personal fears should come from the state itself and not for the shadows

Shadows are visible when insane because they took inspiration from the cthulhu mythos where people that is becoming insane can reach new planes. Shadows are simply creatures thrown to other plane infected by them 

In short,  wont make sense to add shadow creatures for each character since they arent created by the survivor mind. They can add new effects tho, like hallucinations, maniacal behavior or even a single shadow/gestal that change shapes

 

[cropo]

42 minutes ago, Waoling said:

Is there any evidence for this theory?

Evidence as in hard facts outright saying it? No.

A few years ago I made an obnoxiously long post going through Hamlet and Shipwrecked, and how time-travel might be involved in and how DST might conclude with time travel before Wanda herself was released, but I don't know how to go through my post-history that long ago and I don't remember every detail.

The Dark Sword for example looks pirate-like in nature, has the exact same stats as the cutlass supreme, and the character Woodlegs speaks very favorably about any shadow-aligned item, even the shadow armor looks like something a pirate captain would wear. Shipwrecked has a godlike altar in its volcano that requires sacrifice and tribute to calm it's wrath, a similar primitive concept like how the Ancients modeled their weaponry, there was clearly a civilization that used to be in the world of Shipwrecked that is long gone by the time we explore it in the DLC. 

What else should happen in DST, a few years later, but a shadow-tinted version of the Obsidian armor from Shipwrecked appear as a shadow item?


Hamlet, ignoring the major cities, clearly hides an ancient and primal civilization in its temples, with similar sacrificial ritual spots(only in their case it is the exchange of fuel for gems.) that was touched by the shadows as well. They even have a motive for using the fuel, they were clearly at war with the insectisoids littering the forests in the present day.  But Hamlet is different in that a futuristic force of robots, armed with the power of the moon(what else should happen a few years later, but for the moon itself to become an active player, at war with the shadows in DST?) went to war with the shadows seemingly before they could complete their domination. I suspect the Vortex cloak that the ancient herald drops is yet another stolen item, as it resembles a leather top that a primal civilization like the pigs depicted in the statues would wear.

 

There's a lot more to this that I have posted about, this is just a very very TLDR summary so there's probably going to be some holes in it. But I really do think that the shadows are formless conquistadors who "aid" civilizations without telling them they plan to dominate and steal everything of cultural value to them, and then use it to manifest themselves into reality.  They're playing their own version of "don't starve" and their "food" is the fruits of life. 

[Waoling]

Your theory feel a bit too flimpsy, just because the shadow sword look like a pirate sword doesn't mean that it have any connection at all, the armor thing might just be a reskin of a item exclusive to Shipwreck they done that before. The ancient herald thing is really far fetch, because it look similiar doesn't mean it connected, and it doesn't even look that familiar.

[cropo]

12 minutes ago, Waoling said:

the armor thing might just be a reskin of a item exclusive to Shipwreck they done that before.

From a doylist perspective that is true. I am giving the Watsonion explanation, like how the Doylist explanation for Skyrim not letting you levitate is because they had to design "open world" cities as interiors, while the Watsonion one is that mages put a magical ban on levitation making it impossible to use.

 

12 minutes ago, Waoling said:

Your theory feel a bit too flimpsy, just because the shadow sword look like a pirate sword doesn't mean that it have any connection at all,

Then why does Woodlegs, the pirate character, have such a fetish for these items? He makes it quite clear that they are very fitting for a pirate.
Why was Woodlegs locked up and left to rot, with one of the key-holders being a clearly shadow-aligned creature underneath the sea who definitely stole his Booty Bag based on his examination quote?


And on that note, why do the shadows need someone sitting on the nightmare throne to "create" things for them?

[Reiko24]

1 hour ago, Waoling said:

That theory seem really lacking in evidence we can see that Dark Tatter come from Ancient Herald in Hamlet, which doesn't meet that the scythe is lying.

Forgot about this guy. There can also be a chance he is not one of the Ancients, more so he is one of Them, but it would be pure speculation. If he is one of the Ancients, things I said about the scythe can be disregarded.

[Waoling]

6 minutes ago, cropo said:

Then why does Woodlegs, the pirate character, have such a fetish for these items? He makes it quite clear that they are very fitting for a pirate.

Well, because it look like a pirate sword, but that doesn't really mean anything other than it look like a pirate sword, Woodleg is also very questionable from a lore perspective since he talk about frozen dinner which is a invention that exist after the 1920s.

[cropo]

Just now, Waoling said:

Well, because it look like a pirate sword, but that doesn't really mean anything other than it look like a pirate sword, Woodleg is also very questionable from a lore perspective since he talk about frozen dinner which is a invention that exist after the 1920s.

That might just be a genuine fourth wall break, characters do it quite often like Maxwell calling gold tools being better than flint "game logic", in which video games would not have existed in his time period.

Woodlegs potentially has some of the biggest lore out of any of the survivors because there's good reason to believe he has direct involvement in some way with the forces at work, due to the way he was locked up, the materials used to make the keys not being from the Shipwrecked world, and his original concept of being a cursed skeleton pirate.

Shipwrecked in particular has a lot of very interesting irregularities about it which is why I suspected someone is either watching the player and guiding them offscreen, or is someone from another time-period setting things into motion.

[Waoling]

Shipwreck was made by a different team and when the lore and story wasn't consistent or focus on as much, I think we shouldn't take what happen in game that was develop by a different team and set before DST release as hard lore.

[cropo]

2 minutes ago, Waoling said:

Shipwreck was made by a different team and when the lore and story wasn't consistent or focus on as much, I think we shouldn't take what happen in game that was develop by a different team and set before DST release as hard lore.

But it is thematically consistent with the ancient civilization in Hamlet and RoG, and Wagstaff was released and has quite a lot of interesting lore-relevant quotes on many of the items in Shipwrecked. Even Warbucks has a full set of quotes for the Shipwrecked items, would they really go this far to detail all of this if the lore just didn't matter?

Pugna outright states that the shadows have been doing this for a long, long time during the Forged event. The Ancients were a single victim in their conquest, Shipwrecked has to be lore-relevant, even if it's just a canonical footnote of the shadows spree.

[Waoling]

10 minutes ago, cropo said:

Even Warbucks has a full set of quotes for the Shipwrecked items, would they really go this far to detail all of this if the lore just didn't matter?

Yes, because they want to add little detail to the game even if it doesn't actually matter, most line are meant to reflect on the character personality but in a funny sort of way.

Woodleg have no real lore, he might have a vauge backstory but no real lore behide him.

Warbuck isn't canon anymore since he isn't in the game or mention anywhere in the story.

Also can you tell me how is Shipwreck thematically consitent with the rest of DST?

Pugna said that shadow destroy all it touch, which doesn't really implies that it have before the ancient open the gateway, and it doesn't really support your theory.

[cropo]

2 minutes ago, Waoling said:

Pugna said that shadow destroy all it touch, which doesn't really implies that it have before the ancient open the gateway, and it doesn't really support your theory.

"Know this, Gatekeepers:"

"Once you are dead, we will activate the Gateway."

"We'll return to the hub and destroy the Throne."

"We will end this all, once and for all."

"How could you understand?"

"We were severed from the Throne."

"Trapped in a realm of stone and fire,"

"With no scepter to provide for us."

"Why should I serve a power that deserted my people?"

Pause

"You would have been wise to find your own realm."

"Seek safe haven and sever yourselves from the hub."

"Drive the interlopers back!" / "Do not hold back! Kill them!" / "They must not take the Forge!"

Long Pause

"Destroy them!!" / "We will not live in the Throne's shadow!" 

Sounds like he once had a civilization that was aided by the shadows, and after being left with nothing grew bitter and resentful. Also sounds to me like the survivors are unwittingly helping in re-conquering this civilization, to steal the last thing they have.

 

6 minutes ago, Waoling said:

Yes, because they want to add little detail to the game even if it doesn't actually matter, most line are meant to reflect on the character personality but in a funny sort of way.

The lines have been very important at gauging some of the characters pasts, yes, many of them are funny and whacky, but many also serve as a window into their history and lore. You can't just write off the character quotes like that, a lot of things we learned about the survivors came from their examination quotes, and critical lore details weren't understood until Maxwell was released.

7 minutes ago, Waoling said:

Warbuck isn't canon anymore since he isn't in the game or mention anywhere in the story.

Yes, so to have a non-canon character be given an entire list of Shipwrecked quotes shows Klei pays attention to Shipwrecked quite well even if they had Capy develop it. Shipwrecked has definitely been given more love by Klei, since they gave it major updates long past the supposed end of support for Singleplayer. All other updates have been general, and Klei themselves have arguably left Hamlet somewhat incomplete despite their dedication to updating Shipwrecked.

 

9 minutes ago, Waoling said:

Also can you tell me how is Shipwreck thematically consitent with the rest of DST?

It's consistent with RoG and Hamlet, DST is not entirely consistent with Singleplayer, it mostly resonates with Hamlet because they seemingly already had the lunar faction in mind when developing Hamlet.

[Waoling]

2 minutes ago, cropo said:

Sounds like he once had a civilization that was aided by the shadows, and after being left with nothing grew bitter and resentful. Also sounds to me like the survivors are unwittingly helping in re-conquering this civilization, to steal the last thing they have.

That is also just another theory, which doesn't really add up much since, the canon of the Forge and Gorge are kind of weird.

5 minutes ago, cropo said:

The lines have been very important at gauging some of the characters pasts, yes, many of them are funny and whacky, but many also serve as a window into their history and lore. You can't just write off the character quotes like that, a lot of things we learned about the survivors came from their examination quotes, and critical lore details weren't understood until Maxwell was released.

We also can't take every line to be actual lore, especially not from character who isn't in DST. This was almost 10 years ago and we see that they can change element of the story and retcon stuff.

7 minutes ago, cropo said:

Yes, so to have a non-canon character be given an entire list of Shipwrecked quotes shows Klei pays attention to Shipwrecked quite well even if they had Capy develop it. Shipwrecked has definitely been given more love by Klei, since they gave it major updates long past the supposed end of support for Singleplayer. All other updates have been general, and Klei themselves have arguably left Hamlet somewhat incomplete despite their dedication to updating Shipwrecked

There a difference between doing it for lore and doing it for gameplay, Warbuck have quote for thing in Shipwreck because he was once a official character, but because some people don't like him because of the sterotype he was remove from the game. He have qoute for shipwreck because other character have quote for shipwreck.

9 minutes ago, cropo said:

It's consistent with RoG and Hamlet, DST is not entirely consistent with Singleplayer, it mostly resonates with Hamlet because they seemingly already had the lunar faction in mind when developing Hamlet.

You didn't actually answer me on how Shipwreck is consistent with RoG and Hamlet.

[cropo]

19 minutes ago, Waoling said:

That is also just another theory, which doesn't really add up much since, the canon of the Forge and Gorge are kind of weird.

What's weird about them? They are brief peaks into other worlds that the shadows have influenced, or had relocated to the constant. The Gorge depicts an ancient, shamanistic people who had to offer sacrifices to a godlike being in the sky that would punish them if they didn't give it what it wants, incredibly consistent with the imagry we've seen before.  The Forge gives us a brief peak into the consequences of allying yourself with the shadows, they give great power at a cost and Pugna's civilization is the result of using the shadows; it also shows us in a more literal sense than Shipwrecked does that they have been doing this for a long time.

Klei has given official statements on details of the Forge, for example, Pugna was from Earth just like our survivors were. Why would they give these details if the event was non-canon?  The Gateway that the fuelweaver defends is a gateway into other worlds, presumably used to invade, offer them cool shadow powers, steal their stuff, and then return to the constant which is a sort of hub world for them inbetween invasions.

 

 

19 minutes ago, Waoling said:

We also can't take every line to be actual lore, especially not from character who isn't in DST. This was almost 10 years ago and we see that they can change element of the story and retcon stuff.

Lore-relevant quotes that aren't lore-relevant is a contradiction. The only thing they've really changed since 10 years is that they're less on-the-nose about their depictions, in the original DS the anti colonialism allegory was pretty obvious, they even added a character like Warbucks.  The shadows have been changed to be a more fantastical mysterious force of beings, rather than a metaphor for westerners invading native lands, but the need to steal the creations of mortals for their own ends doesn't seem to be any different than it seemed to be when the game first came out.

19 minutes ago, Waoling said:

You didn't actually answer me on how Shipwreck is consistent with RoG and Hamlet

You didn't ask.

DS, Shipwrecked, and Hamlet, tell a story of a now-dead civilization that had previously worshipped some other deity and changed their allegience to the new shadow beings that promised them great power and success, only to have their entire culture and civilization destroyed in the process.

Hamlet is an outlier, as it simultaneously depicts a civilization that was built on top of the old one. It also has the most thematic links to DST, introducing the lunar-infused robot forces to do war with the shadows.  There's a lot I can say about Hamlet and how I think Hamlet is actually the farthest point in time in the entire Don't Starve Universe. But I'm already posting way too much here, but I think Hamlet is post-DST in terms of story.

[Waoling]

Well, you can headcanon that, I just don't see enough evidence to your claim, and some of the other stuff you claim that support your shadow theory also have almost no evidence.

[NPCMaxwell]

7 hours ago, marshyds said:

heres ideas for custom insanity effects characters could have:

Willow - Things she walks near will start smoldering sometimes (this is probably catastrophic...)

Wormwood - Incapable of hurting a plant (I.E digging, chopping, ect.)

Wolfgang - stronger nightmare creatures.

Wanda - nightmare creatures always spawn, though rarely at max sanity. All hell breaks loose at insanity levels. (based off of her trailer)

Maxwell - Stronger nightmare creatures

Wes - can speak, but words are automatically translated into french

Warly - Food sanity gain is inversed, maybe...

Wendy - Abigail becomes unusable, dies again (loser.)

Walter - a swarm of 4 shadow bees sometimes spawn, each giving 5 sanity for killing em.

The Wes idea is hillariously silly :'3 And the Walter Idea is GREAT! I totally forgot he's supposed to be allergic to bees [right? I think I remember now that he is]

7 hours ago, gamehun20 said:

His words attack him

That's even more hillarious!!!

6 hours ago, arubaro said:

Would be cool to have more insanity/enlightement interactions but i think that personal fears should come from the state itself and not for the shadows

Shadows are visible when insane because they took inspiration from the cthulhu mythos where people that is becoming insane can reach new planes. Shadows are simply creatures thrown to other plane infected by them 

In short,  wont make sense to add shadow creatures for each character since they arent created by the survivor mind. They can add new effects tho, like hallucinations, maniacal behavior or even a single shadow/gestal that change shapes

 

Even this would be completely fine to me, no matter what exactly is added to insanity / enlightment, as long as it becomes even more interesting, even when just cosmetically. But maniacal / depressive behaviour would probably be my favourite impact. [also that makes sense with insanity just opens the mind to see Shadows]

[Tranoze]

[NPCMaxwell]

3 minutes ago, Tranoze said:

Oh no, poor tiny Wolfgang ;; [This is too cute!]

[Bumber64]

On 7/16/2024 at 7:38 AM, NPCMaxwell said:

For Wickerbottom: A nightmare creature related to sleep, since she's insomniac, probably hasn't slept in ages, just imagining WHAT she might dream if she ever fell asleep again may sound fitting to me.

 Her nightmare creatures check out books from their local ancient archive, but return them in poor condition (or not at all).

[Jakepeng99]

Wilson's nightmare is a skilled tree.

[Bumber64]

16 minutes ago, Jakepeng99 said:

Wilson's nightmare is a skilled tree.

That throws torches.