Moonlight Shackle - New Celestial Altar craft suggestion - AFW nerf

[NPCMaxwell]

26 minutes ago, Cruvimaster said:

Let me take a look at this "super difficult" boss:

Just watching the whole thing to constantly alternate between He's hurting my poor funny hair man! And he's hurting my poor sheepi-skull creature!

[grm9]

10 minutes ago, DegenerateFurry said:

a new version of him that's actually fun for most players (not just veterans who like wasting eight hours on inventory management practice to master the fight), and those people with sunk-cost fallacy who think they like it the way it is still get to enjoy suffering - they just have to give it an item that changes the fight to make it a grindy slog, sort of like Misery Toadstool

that's simply extremely cringe, why do you think that your opinion's something objective even though you yourself made a poll about that and ended up realising that only 5% of users think same thing? that's simply rude, pointless and insulting

[Theukon-dos]

7 minutes ago, DegenerateFurry said:

I'd rather see an Ancient Fuelweaver full rework (like Crab King got) and a new item that, if used on the skeleton before inserting the atrium, causes him to have his current (non-reworked) AI and mechanics. 
So, instead of just weakening him and keeping the fight the same, we get a new version of him that's actually fun for most players (not just veterans who like wasting eight hours on inventory management practice to master the fight),

Didn't you make a poll asking people if they wanted to see Ancient Fuelweaver changed, only for people to overwhelmingly vote that they either didn't want AFW changed or only wanted minor tweaks to the fight?

Believe it or not, Fuelweaver is a popular fight. And if it did only appeal to veterans like you and OP have been claiming, then either that poll would be skewed in the exact opposite direction, or these forums would be a much, much different place.

[Gashzer]

5 minutes ago, Theukon-dos said:

Didn't you make a poll asking people if they wanted to see Ancient Fuelweaver changed, only for people to overwhelmingly vote that they either didn't want AFW changed or only wanted minor tweaks to the fight?

Believe it or not, Fuelweaver is a popular fight. And if it did only appeal to veterans like you and OP have been claiming, then either that poll would be skewed in the exact opposite direction, or these forums would be a much, much different place.

Believe it or not my idea doesnt change the fight for you in the slightest. Why are you arguing against it?

You guys should be patting me on the back for finding the perfect compromise that keeps the fight the exact same for you. But allows others to have an easier time if they so choose.

[Cruvimaster]

I think they can spend about 5 years creating topics to destroy AFW and make it pathetic. Good luck!

[Gashzer]

4 minutes ago, Cruvimaster said:

I think they can spend about 5 years creating topics to destroy AFW and make it pathetic. Good luck!

Forums are the biggest echo chamber of veteran players that doesnt represent the entire playerbase at all.

Do you not think klei knows this? Lol

[Cruvimaster]

AFW is a boss from 2016. Characters received reworks and became more powerful. Now, all characters are getting even more powerful with skill trees. And AFW remains the same. All bosses are already being indirectly nerfed.

8 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

Forums are the biggest echo chamber of veteran players that doesnt represent the entire playerbase at all.

Do you not think klei knows this? Lol

The community's opinion is only useful to you when the result is good for you, right?

[Gashzer]

Just now, Cruvimaster said:

AFW is a boss from 2016. Characters received reworks and became more powerful. Now, all characters are getting even more powerful with skill trees. And AFW remains the same. All bosses are already being indirectly nerfed.

Yeah and AFW will remain the same. I want that too now.

I also want a lorefriendly way to nerf him with a lunar based item. 

I win, u win. Veterans win, noobs win.

We all win!

[Cruvimaster]

I made a post complaining about the nerf to fossils. I lost. I accepted. I didn't need to create new topics because I was unhappy with the change. It's quite simple.

[Gashzer]

Just now, Cruvimaster said:

I made a post complaining about the nerf to fossils. I lost. I accepted. I didn't need to create new topics because I was unhappy with the change. It's quite simple.

True u didnt but grm9 made a topic complaining about crab king which sparked this great idea of mine.

Ty again grm9, you are a great source of inspiration.

[Cruvimaster]

I believe you will have the arduous task of creating countless threads calling for AFW to be nerfed for the next 5-10 years. I will continue commenting on your next topics. I disagree with you on AFW, but that doesn't mean I don't agree on other issues.

[zhangsheng]

27 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

Forums are the biggest echo chamber of veteran players that doesnt represent the entire playerbase at all.

Do you not think klei knows this? Lol

Isn't that a bit too arbitrary?
The idea is indeed good, but I don't think this thing can be used to defeat AFW for the first time because at that time his power had not yet been absorbed by Charlie. When you want to reset the ruins again or obtain more of his loot in the future, it is reasonable to use tools that weaken the power appropriately.
After all, not everyone wants to defeat him again in his prime.

[Theukon-dos]

50 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

Believe it or not my idea doesnt change the fight for you in the slightest. Why are you arguing against it?

You guys should be patting me on the back for finding the perfect compromise that keeps the fight the exact same for you. But allows others to have an easier time if they so choose.

Well. It would effect me if I where I where playing on a server and someone rushed the archives and lunar island to get one of these and then rush AFW, if only because it means I'd now need to do the moonstone event twice to power the archives, Wilson players not included. Or it might effect me because the server's all gotten together and we got into a heated argument on whether we should use it or not. This may surprise you, but "just don't use it" and "it won't effect you" are arguments that don't hold up in a primarily Multi-player environment where there's no way to enforce a consensus between players.

 

And second, it's because you're looking for a compromise in favor of a group of players that don't actually exist. Obviously some do, I'm arguing with you right now. But as the poll demonstrated, people like the AFW fight as is. And no, this forum is not an "echo chamber for veterans" as you claim. Know this because I've been getting into arguments sense before you showed your face. And if it was a veteran's echo chamber, I wouldn't have gotten into them in the first place.

 

And y'know what? Despite that, despite all of that, I'm not even opposed to making the Ancient Fuelweaver fight easier. 

I'd love it if more non-character specific ways to pop the woven shadows where added than just the Weather Pain and Brightshade staff. I think that would be a great way to make the fight more manageable for less-skilled players. Mind you that's more to do with my hatred of weather pains, but regardless. Or hey! Just add a solo mode that reduces the Health and healing of Fuelweaver along with the other raid bosses. I may recognize that AFW's supposed to be hard. But I will admit that it is primarily balanced around a Multi-player setting. And unlike your shackles, this actually wouldn't effect me because I could see if the weaker bosses are enabled before joining a server. 

 

See, what I actually have problems with is you being a rooster-headed know it all who's acting like the Ancient Fuelweaver is some God-Devourering super boss that's physically impossible to defeat unless you're someone with no life outside of DST that can afford to practice it for thousands of hours.

 

He's not. Anyone with hands can learn to fight the Ancient Fuelweaver in an afternoon. And I'm sure that someone's done it without them too.  You refuse to engage with the boss and learn how to fight it yet still belive that you deserve victory over it handed to you on a silver platter.

 

Atleast that's what I think you belive. Because you've also openly admitted to being a troll. This whole thread is nothing but rage bait that I took hook, line, and sinker. For all I know, you don't actually think that he's a hard boss, and just know that making this thread would have gotten a reaction out of people. Well good job kid, it worked. If history remembers your name, may it be with nothing but contempt.

[Gashzer]

48 minutes ago, Cruvimaster said:

The community's opinion is only useful to you when the result is good for you, right?

No community opinion is useful to me.

Im here to propose ideas that will directly help me and only me. Ofc i will support other people's ideas if i like them and if they benefit me.

Me being selfish doesnt matter, my opinion doesnt matter. My ideas stand on their own merit and logic... Thats how good they are 

 

12 minutes ago, Theukon-dos said:

Well. It would effect me if I where I where playing on a server and someone rushed the archives and lunar island to get one of these and then rush AFW, if only because it means I'd now need to do the moonstone event twice to power the archives, Wilson players not included. Or it might effect me because the server's all gotten together and we got into a heated argument on whether we should use it or not. This may surprise you, but "just don't use it" and "it won't effect you" are arguments that don't hold up in a primarily Multi-player environment where there's no way to enforce a consensus between players.

 

And second, it's because you're looking for a compromise in favor of a group of players that don't actually exist. Obviously some do, I'm arguing with you right now. But as the poll demonstrated, people like the AFW fight as is. And no, this forum is not an "echo chamber for veterans" as you claim. Know this because I've been getting into arguments sense before you showed your face. And if it was a veteran's echo chamber, I wouldn't have gotten into them in the first place.

 

And y'know what? Despite that, despite all of that, I'm not even opposed to making the Ancient Fuelweaver fight easier. 

I'd love it if more non-character specific ways to pop the woven shadows where added than just the Weather Pain and Brightshade staff. I think that would be a great way to make the fight more manageable for less-skilled players. Mind you that's more to do with my hatred of weather pains, but regardless. Or hey! Just add a solo mode that reduces the Health and healing of Fuelweaver along with the other raid bosses. I may recognize that AFW's supposed to be hard. But I will admit that it is primarily balanced around a Multi-player setting. And unlike your shackles, this actually wouldn't effect me because I could see if the weaker bosses are enabled before joining a server. 

 

See, what I actually have problems with is you being a rooster-headed know it all who's acting like the Ancient Fuelweaver is some God-Devourering super boss that's physically impossible to defeat unless you're someone with no life outside of DST that can afford to practice it for thousands of hours.

 

He's not. Anyone with hands can learn to fight the Ancient Fuelweaver in an afternoon. And I'm sure that someone's done it without them too.  You refuse to engage with the boss and learn how to fight it yet still belive that you deserve victory over it handed to you on a silver platter.

 

Atleast that's what I think you belive. Because you've also openly admitted to being a troll. This whole thread is nothing but rage bait that I took hook, line, and sinker. For all I know, you don't actually think that he's a hard boss, and just know that making this thread would have gotten a reaction out of people. Well good job kid, it worked. If history remembers your name, may it be with nothing but contempt.

Again, my idea stands on its own merit.

I could be a troll, rooster or apache helicopter. 

That doesnt automatically mean the moonlight shackle is a bad idea just because im the one who came up with it.

Also killing afw resets ruins so more yellow and green gems to convert to iridescent gems. And tbh wilson is the biggest counter argument to someone using up an archive gem. Celestial portal is very easy to rush.

[Cruvimaster]

Your topic is essentially the same and there you gave the solution of using mod to the other member. Maybe you should have the same solution, no?

[Gashzer]

1 minute ago, Cruvimaster said:

Your topic is essentially the same and there you gave the solution of using mod to the other member. Maybe you should have the same solution, no?

True then a big anime uno reverso plot happened an im actually ok with grm9 getting an ingame item to bring back old crab king.

To clarify, Grm9 didnt ask for a world gen setting to bring old crab king back he wanted an ingame item to do it which gave me this moonlight shackle idea. 

I changed my mind by the end of that thread because we both can get what we want now. I can get a AFW nerf that doesnt affect veterans and grm9 can get the old crab king back using ingame items as the way to make this happen.

[DegenerateFurry]

1 hour ago, Cruvimaster said:

I think they can spend about 5 years creating topics to destroy AFW and make it pathetic. Good luck!

You're ignoring the fact that 47% want it changed and 53% don't. Very disingenuously presented with those yellow boxes. If this was an election, it'd be historically close.

Also, it's funny how you have several posts in this thread whining about that poll. Maybe stop being so obsessed with me?

[Frosty_Mentos]

Brightshade staff already does decent job and we got characters now with skilltrees that have AoE abilities to deal with woven shadows instead of needing to wait for spring to gather feathers. Fuelweaver I'd argue is fastest boss compared to Celestial champion, who has 30k hp vs AFW's 10K that can be bursted down quicker.

[Theukon-dos]

54 minutes ago, DegenerateFurry said:

You're ignoring the fact that 47% want it changed and 53% don't. Very disingenuously presented with those yellow boxes. If this was an election, it'd be historically close.

Also, it's funny how you have several posts in this thread whining about that poll. Maybe stop being so obsessed with me?

47% want *minor* changes. Nobody's arguing the fight is perfect as-is. Just that adding an item with the explicit purpose of making the former final boss easy is a stupid idea. Wanting minor changes is the desire of people who think things like "The fight is cool, but the healing phase is a bit aggressive for a solo player to deal with" or ""I like the fight except for the bone cage. That part is annoying".

 

Meanwhile, you have repeatedly expressed the belief that the current itteration of the ancient fuelweaver fight is so awful that it's beyond redemption. And thus needs a dull Scorched-Earth rework Ala Crab King. And that anyone who disagrees with you is a "veteran", which in this context seems to be referring to anyone with far to much investment in the game and it's difficulty and enough free time to invest thousands of hours of practice into a single boss.

 

Despite whatever you belive, these are not equivelant opinions. The Ancient Fuelweaver is generally favored and seen as, at worst, a bit overbearing in some regards.

 

In addition, nobody's obsessed with you. It's just extremely funny how you blatantly made a poll to prove that your beliefs where popular opinion, instead immediately proved that they where an extremely small majority, and yet still act like you are objectively right while claiming everyone else is wrong.

[Gashzer]

9 minutes ago, Theukon-dos said:

47% want *minor* changes. Nobody's arguing the fight is perfect as-is. Just that adding an item with the explicit purpose of making the former final boss easy is a stupid idea. Wanting minor changes is the desire of people who think things like "The fight is cool, but the healing phase is a bit aggressive for a solo player to deal with" or ""I like the fight except for the bone cage. That part is annoying".

 

Meanwhile, you have repeatedly expressed the belief that the current itteration of the ancient fuelweaver fight is so awful that it's beyond redemption. And thus needs a dull Scorched-Earth rework Ala Crab King. And that anyone who disagrees with you is a "veteran", which in this context seems to be referring to anyone with far to much investment in the game and it's difficulty and enough free time to invest thousands of hours of practice into a single boss.

 

Despite whatever you belive, these are not equivelant opinions. The Ancient Fuelweaver is generally favored and seen as, at worst, a bit overbearing in some regards.

 

In addition, nobody's obsessed with you. It's just extremely funny how you blatantly made a poll to prove that your beliefs where popular opinion, instead immediately proved that they where an extremely small majority, and yet still act like you are objectively right while claiming everyone else is wrong.

Here my minor tweak idea of ancient fuelweaver only spawning one wave of woven shadows per wave of unseen hands was very quickly shut down by people with the same mentality as you. 

This moonlight shackle idea is an attempt to compromise to make everyone happy. Ofc if a better idea comes along ill be happy as well.

[Cruvimaster]

3 hours ago, DegenerateFurry said:

I'd rather see an Ancient Fuelweaver full rework (like Crab King got) and a new item that, if used on the skeleton before inserting the atrium, causes him to have his current (non-reworked) AI and mechanics. 

You don't even want the 42% proposal. This is clear in your message.

Even making small changes (42%) the essence will be maintained and you will continue to have the same problems you have today.

You lost and you don't accept it. This post of yours just proves that.

94% do not want to turn AFW into a new CK. Just accept it, man.

[Gashzer]

39 minutes ago, Cruvimaster said:

You don't even want the 42% proposal. This is clear in your message.

Even making small changes (42%) the essence will be maintained and you will continue to have the same problems you have today.

You lost and you don't accept it. This post of yours just proves that.

94% do not want to turn AFW into a new CK. Just accept it, man.

You are completely right lad!!

Thats why its so great that the moonlight shackle idea doesnt turn AFW into new CK and is a completely optional item like the brightshade staff that already destroys AFW.

The moonlight shackle just can be obtained earlier than completing the really long quest line for CC, killing CC then waiting for rifts to open that you need to do for brightshade staff. 

Moonlight shackle isnt even a guaranteed win, atleast when doin the fight solo.

And its very lore friendly reinforcing the conflict between the mysterious forces of the constant.

[Evelo]

4 hours ago, Cruvimaster said:

Let me take a look at this "super difficult" boss

Cool, gj. Now do it 1 handed (full keyboard or full mouse, your choice) and let me know how it goes. Accessibility for solo players is important. AFW is far too difficult with certain disabilities.

(Granted it can be done 1 handed, just exhausting, I've done it without the spider/lureplant cheese. Since I play mostly wormwood, I litter the ground with bramble traps for the woven shadows. I simply want the Woven Shadow healing to be lowered or the number that spawn to be lowered either by a scaling factor for solo players or in general. Other than that I like the fight as is.)

[DegenerateFurry]

1 hour ago, Theukon-dos said:

blah blah I'm angry and pretend everyone agrees with me

All the poll proved is that even on a place with as much of a lean towards very experienced players as this forum, close to half of them want at least some change to Fuelweaver that'd make him a bit less frustrating to fight solo. You are continuing to ignore this in favor of pointing out that I personally want a bigger change. This is why I don't take you or your ilk seriously.

[grm9]

36 minutes ago, DegenerateFurry said:

close to half of them want at least some change to Fuelweaver that'd make him a bit less frustrating to fight solo

we don't know what sort of change do they want and just say easier since that's what you mean

37 minutes ago, DegenerateFurry said:

a place with as much of a lean towards very experienced players as this forum

most people here seem to still think that wolfgang, pierogi, meatballs and crock pot're meta so no