Wolfgang should burn a lot of calories

[Jakepeng99]

The less hunger, the slower he gains mightiness.

When he is mighty, he drains hunger 25% faster. Every time he gains mightiness points, he loses 1 hunger.

Below 40% hunger, his body will start consuming his muscles for energy, meaning he will drain mightiness instead of hunger.

[Reiko24]

I am all for adding more meaningful downsides to characters.

Each update makes them so strong, and the downsides are practically untouched...  It would be nice if the characters actually had downsides, like Wanda or Wormwood. Even those could be a bit increased ngl

[abrocator]

Excellent idea. Hunger is one of the core mechanics of the game. Elegant game design is about tasteful use of a limited set of mechanics. Not about having eight different character-exclusive crafts.

Dang, why didn’t the developers think of using hunger when designing Wolfgang? Oh well.

[NPCMaxwell]

1 hour ago, Jakepeng99 said:

The less hunger, the slower he gains mightiness.

When he is mighty, he drains hunger 25% faster. Every time he gains mightiness points, he loses 1 hunger.

Below 40% hunger, his body will start consuming his muscles for energy, meaning he will drain mightiness instead of hunger.

That would ACTUALLY make him a realistic STRONGMAN again! [like I felt he was in DS singleplayer]

[grm9]

52 minutes ago, Reiko24 said:

It would be nice if the characters actually had downsides, like Wanda or Wormwood

wanda has no downsides, some people say that the downside's inventory management but there're no issues with that if you only carry 1 or 2 healing clocks, nf and clock whip

1 hour ago, Jakepeng99 said:

The less hunger, the slower he gains mightiness.

When he is mighty, he drains hunger 25% faster. Every time he gains mightiness points, he loses 1 hunger.

Below 40% hunger, his body will start consuming his muscles for energy, meaning he will drain mightiness instead of hunger

25%'s going to be practically nothing, just revert the rework at that point

[Tranoze]

1 minute ago, grm9 said:

wanda has no downsides

Noone has any downside if you good enough. People with bad inventory management (and bad with dodge bosses) will see wanda downside. People with bad temperature management will feel willow downside. People that rely solely on sleeping for healing will understand wicker downside. People rely solely on food healing will get wormwood downside...

I feel downside is a good thing for players to learn one aspect of the game when they learn a new character along with it.

[grm9]

Just now, Tranoze said:

Noone has any downside if you good enough

not really, old wolfgang's x1.5 hunger drain even when not mighty didn't disappear after you became better, you still needed to spend more time on food, it's just that mighty form compensated that if you were killing bosses quickly

1 minute ago, Tranoze said:

People with bad inventory management (and bad with dodge bosses) will see wanda downside

wanda gets passive healing so it's practically easier to stay alive when playing as her and 1 or 2 healing clocks, nf and clock whip're less in comparison to ham bat or dark sword and materials for them, especially if you were carrying nf for e.g. magi anyway

[Reiko24]

15 minutes ago, grm9 said:

wanda has no downsides, some people say that the downside's inventory management but there're no issues with that if you only carry 1 or 2 healing clocks, nf and clock whip

25%'s going to be practically nothing, just revert the rework at that point

If you carry so little healing clocks and don't die during boss fights then you are skilled and it's justified.

Her downside is the lack of healing outside her clocks. If you are bad at the game, then you will die a lot just because of it. Wormwood has an easier time healing than Wanda, and he doesn't need to be at 20 health to fight at his full potential.

 

Edit: also, burning, freezing, starvation, etc. destroys your healing ability entirely

[Tranoze]

7 minutes ago, grm9 said:

not really, old wolfgang's x1.5 hunger drain even when not mighty

when was this again, as far as i remember old wolfgang return back to 1 hunger drain when normal and 0.75 while wimpy.

[grm9]

Just now, Reiko24 said:

If you carry so little healing clocks and don't die during boss fights then you are skilled and it's justified

you can just bring a lot of clocks for bosses and only carry 1 or 2 when not doing them since you get like 10 free inventory slots if you only take stuff that you'll use

1 minute ago, Reiko24 said:

Her downside is the lack of healing outside her clocks. If you are bad at the game, then you will die a lot just because of it

nah, you get healing for free, 5 clocks're 100 hp from the start and same amount for every 2 mins spent fighting or 2000 hp if you use night armor

4 minutes ago, Reiko24 said:

20 health to fight at his full potential

37.5, 750 with night armor

1 minute ago, Tranoze said:

when was this again, as far as i remember old wolfgang return back to 1 hunger drain when normal and 0.75 while wimpy

nope, x3 when mighty, x1.5 when normal and x1 when weak iirc

[Sir Noel]

Wanda's main downside comes from her health being different. An inexperienced Wanda player will not know how much damage they can take before death compared to regular survivors, which is why she has a bit of a learning curve before you can really feel comfortable playing her.

33 minutes ago, grm9 said:

not really, old wolfgang's x1.5 hunger drain even when not mighty didn't disappear after you became better, you still needed to spend more time on food, it's just that mighty form compensated that if you were killing bosses quickly

You're arguing against someone who is saying downsides are trivial once you're experienced by using old Wolf's hunger drain, but that can be easily handled by just knowing how to get and manage food. One could call a person like this... experienced.

[grm9]

14 minutes ago, Sir Noel said:

that can be easily handled by just knowing how to get and manage food

nope, you still spend more time on food

14 minutes ago, Sir Noel said:

Wanda's main downside comes from her health being different. An inexperienced Wanda player will not know how much damage they can take before death compared to regular survivors, which is why she has a bit of a learning curve before you can really feel comfortable playing her

not really, you could just know that you take 10 damage from a frog, get hit once when playing as her, see that age increase was 4 and realise that 1 age's 2.5 hp, nothing except planar can 1 shot you even if you're waiting at around 73 age to go higher before healing to stay old after that since that's still 350 hp

[Sir Noel]

1 minute ago, grm9 said:

nope, you still spend more time on food

Which is balanced out by the fact that you'll be spending far less time on bosses and combat in general, so you have way more time to spend on food (which you even mentioned). If you're doing an all boss run or something, this is even more negligible.

Btw this isn't me saying I don't want it back, I just think it's silly to pick out this downside as if its more of a hindrance because you spend more time on it. An experienced player will barely have problems with this or the game in general. That's just how it is.

3 minutes ago, grm9 said:

not really, you could just know that you take 10 damage from a frog, get hit once when playing as her, see that age increase was 4 and realise that 1 age's 2.5 hp, nothing can 1 shot you when using night armor except planar also so that hardly matters anyway, just heal after you go low enough to not go below old threshold after doing that

I appreciate how you analyze the numbers, but the average player is probably not doing this. There's a difference between knowing something and actually experiencing it, not everyone is just getting it right away.

[grm9]

4 minutes ago, Sir Noel said:

Which is balanced out by the fact that you'll be spending far less time on bosses and combat in general, so you have way more time to spend on food (which you even mentioned). If you're doing an all boss run or something, this is even more negligible.

Btw this isn't me saying I don't want it back, I just think it's silly to pick out this downside as if its more of a hindrance because you spend more time on it. An experienced player will barely have problems with this or the game in general. That's just how it is

it can still force you to waste time if you don't do stuff quickly enough unlike wanda's healing practically always saving time in comparison to normal healing if you at least got hit a few times or ate cooked monster meat

6 minutes ago, Sir Noel said:

I appreciate how you analyze the numbers, but the average player is probably not doing this. There's a difference between knowing something and actually experiencing it, not everyone is just getting it right away

they could at least look at the wiki if that's confusing for them or at least heal after reaching (old threshold + age decrease from heal) to stay old, since it isn't hard to see that clock age decrease's 8

[chaosmonkey]

Why is everyone talking like Wanda is OP? She's in the gutter since planar damage came to the game. Easily out-dps'd by Wolfgang while only being able to take 1 hit. She's no glass cannon, just a glass noodle.

[grm9]

1 minute ago, chaosmonkey said:

Why is everyone talking like Wanda is OP?

no one did, i've said that she has no downsides, not that she's too good

1 minute ago, chaosmonkey said:

She's in the gutter since planar damage came to the game

they didn't add hard planar enemies yet so that's irrelevant

[Jakepeng99]

2 hours ago, NPCMaxwell said:

That would ACTUALLY make him a realistic STRONGMAN again! [like I felt he was in DS singleplayer]

Both versions of Wolfgang are unrealistic.

If you followed Pre-reworked Wolfgang's "workout" routine, you would be the next pig king.

If you followed Post-reworked Wolfgang's workout routine, you will just destroy yourself.

 

But, combine them together, you get something reasonable.

2 hours ago, grm9 said:

25%'s going to be practically nothing, just revert the rework at that point

You missed out the other part. He loses 1 hunger point every time he gains mightiness. That adds up to be HUGE. It might even be too much, maybe he should only lose hunger from gaining mightiness when he is in normal or mighty form? 0.5 hunger in normal, 1 hunger when mighty.

[grm9]

7 minutes ago, Jakepeng99 said:

You missed out the other part. He loses 1 hunger point every time he gains mightiness. That adds up to be HUGE

there won't be a cost after getting to full though since drain gets paused for 5 seconds after doing something that would've increased the value iirc

[Jakepeng99]

Just now, grm9 said:

there won't be a cost when fighting though since drain gets paused for 5 seconds after doing something that'd increase the value iirc

Good point. It would encourage a weird gameplay where everyone tries not to lose mightiness or is punished. Maybe he just loses hunger from doing work in general, and it is not directly tied to gaining mightiness?

[NPCMaxwell]

40 minutes ago, Jakepeng99 said:

Both versions of Wolfgang are unrealistic.

If you followed Pre-reworked Wolfgang's "workout" routine, you would be the next pig king.

If you followed Post-reworked Wolfgang's workout routine, you will just destroy yourself.

 

But, combine them together, you get something reasonable.

You missed out the other part. He loses 1 hunger point every time he gains mightiness. That adds up to be HUGE. It might even be too much, maybe he should only lose hunger from gaining mightiness when he is in normal or mighty form? 0.5 hunger in normal, 1 hunger when mighty.

Of course unrealistic by real world standards, but I mean REALISTIC when keeping fantasy logic [it's supernatural strength caused by shadow-magic, apparenlty] but still connecting it to metabolism which ADDS some realism. That's what I meant, and to me the single player Wolfgang was more of a realistic strongman in this case compared to DST current Wolfgang.

[Evelo]

I am all for downsides. I love them as they make characters feel more distinct from one another.
"Oh but upsides do that too", yeah but you can mostly ignore upsides, can't ignore downsides. (Except Wickerbottom)

[abrocator]

4 hours ago, Jakepeng99 said:

Both versions of Wolfgang are unrealistic.

If you followed Pre-reworked Wolfgang's "workout" routine, you would be the next pig king.

If you followed Post-reworked Wolfgang's workout routine, you will just destroy yourself.

The devs when reworking Wolfgang: yuck, eating to become strong is unrealistic, remove that

When devs when reworking Wickerbottom (later): it reads the book to turn off the rains

[benfroyobro9381]

To be fair, remember that old Wolfgang was considered incredibly op and his hunger downside wasn't a big deal. I think it's fine but I doubt it would be considered meaningful by the community unless Wolfgang gets diabetes and has a protein meter(Not that I believe downsides should be something that haunts the player and should be on their mind 24/7).

While I don't mind it coming back, a common complaint was that og Wolfgang would eat everyone's food to stay mighty. I don't think this is inherently an issue with Wolfgang's hunger downside but it's something to consider. Maybe give Wolfgang a sledge hammer or something cool, like a higher damaging weapon with a longer windup and aoe.

 

[grm9]

2 minutes ago, benfroyobro9381 said:

To be fair, remember that old Wolfgang was considered incredibly op

there's no definition for that so saying that's pointless, he was only good for bosses and new wolfgang's more efficient either way

2 minutes ago, benfroyobro9381 said:

his hunger downside wasn't a big deal

it ended up making you waste more time in comparison to wilson if you weren't doing things quickly enough to compensate amount of time spent on getting more food in comparison to most other characters

4 minutes ago, benfroyobro9381 said:

While I don't mind it coming back, a common complaint was that og Wolfgang would eat everyone's food to stay mighty

that's an issue with players

[abrocator]

18 minutes ago, benfroyobro9381 said:

To be fair, remember that old Wolfgang was considered incredibly op and his hunger downside wasn't a big deal.

Meanwhile now he presses F or presses spacebar if the action is mining or chopping and his downside is “does he even have a downside?” (it’s the sanity drain modifier).

19 minutes ago, benfroyobro9381 said:

While I don't mind it coming back, a common complaint was that og Wolfgang would eat everyone's food to stay mighty. I don't think this is inherently an issue with Wolfgang's hunger downside but it's something to consider.

Eating all the food would be a downside.