Hardmode is not the way to go.

[Swiyss]

Most of the time people will say "dst is not a game to have skill trees" but I disagree. If Klei DECIDED that skill trees will be added, then let's try to make them the best way possible instead of going against the current. They're the boss. I say if we put our energy into actually trying to help things will move way quicker.

[_zwb]

3 minutes ago, loopuleasa said:

Hardmode is not yet complete, let them cook

It's been a year and I still can't see """the bigger picture""". It doesn't seem like Klei one in the first place, otherwise why are they adding "challenges" with no solution?

[loopuleasa]

2 minutes ago, _zwb said:

It's been a year and I still can't see """the bigger picture""". It doesn't seem like Klei one in the first place, otherwise why are they adding "challenges" with no solution?

A year is nothing in game dev time, its only a lot in impatient customer time

[_zwb]

1 minute ago, loopuleasa said:

A year is nothing in game dev time, its only a lot in impatient customer time

if it's gonna take years to make why not release it as DLC...

[arubaro]

1 minute ago, _zwb said:

if it's gonna take years to make why not release it as DLC...

Something obvious. The game only costs 5e and the income come mostly from skin packs and extra characters, tho they are cheap with spools

They need to release content with short time gaps so the attetion to the game doesnt drop too much

Dlcs split the community and didnt bring that much content 

[Swiyss]

27 minutes ago, arubaro said:

starting for bugged ones like mctusk)

Great that you mentioned it because I just had a mctusk walk on the ocean yesterday cause his camp spawned too close to the sea. And the fact that he'll just walk back to his camp after some time makes the fight so stupid. The average player will unconciously realise this and ask himself "well this is so dumb, his a.i is so easily counterable I thought we had to fight him". And that's mostly because = Klei adds stuff, players cry it's too hard, it gets nerfed to oblivion to a bad design since it is what it wasn't supposed to be.

[Theukon-dos]

23 minutes ago, loopuleasa said:

Hardmode is not yet complete, let them cook

People said the same thing about the ocean, and look how that ended up. Sorry chief, but it's hard to "let them cook" when the last time I let them cook something ended with them leaving the cake in a cold oven and going to do something else.

[loopuleasa]

Just now, Theukon-dos said:

People said the same thing about the ocean, and look how that ended up. Sorry chief, but it's hard to "let them cook" when the last time I let them cook something ended with them leaving the cake in the oven and going to do something else.

Ocean is not complete either, let them cook there too.

The main ocean problem is the sailing control scheme being unfun. That one is the aspect I am most worried about ocean.

13 minutes ago, _zwb said:

if it's gonna take years to make why not release it as DLC...

DLCs fragment communites and are bad for the game

[Masked Koopa]

2 hours ago, Gashzer said:

Skilltrees are alot of fun and if they help new players reach the endgame within a reasonable amount of playtime then thats a massive win.

I honestly think they do a pretty poor job at this given how inconsistent they are. A big one is how they stick planar perks onto non-allignment perks despite them being completely worthless pre-cc/pre-fw. Why does a new player have to research planar damage before ever opening rifts? Because otherwise they're not going to understand that things like Wigfrid's planar defense perks or Wolfgang's planar damage perks are worthless to them until they do.

[Gashzer]

Just now, Masked Koopa said:

I honestly think they do a pretty poor job at this given how inconsistent they are. A big one is how they stick planar perks onto non-allignment perks despite them being completely worthless pre-cc/pre-fw. Why does a new player have to research planar damage before ever opening rifts? Because otherwise they're not going to understand that things like Wigfrid's planar defense perks or Wolfgang's planar damage perks are worthless to them until they do.

Skilltrees also act as tutorials showing players that they can do certain things. People are like why does wigfrid have beefalo skills and a combat saddle when an ornery beefalo is bad for her? Because it fits lore wise and shows new players they can tame beefalos when looking through her tree.

Planar skills do the same thing. Wolfgangs alignment skills are very powerful and take up 3 skill points. So if you dont have them unlocked yet then you have 3 extra skill points anyway. Wolfgang skill tree hasnt got alot of choices to it because hes so innately powerful as is.

[HondorDrache]

10 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

Деревья навыков также выступают в качестве обучающих программ, показывающих игрокам, что они могут делать определенные вещи. Люди спрашивают, почему у Вигфрид есть навыки бифало и боевое седло, когда злобный бифало плох для нее? Потому что это соответствует лору и показывает новым игрокам, что они могут приручить бифало, глядя на ее дерево.

Планарные навыки делают то же самое. Навыки выравнивания Вольфганга очень сильны и занимают 3 очка навыков. Так что если вы их еще не разблокировали, то у вас в любом случае есть 3 дополнительных очка навыков. Дерево навыков Вольфганга не имеет большого выбора, потому что он и так изначально силен.

the fact that you can tame beefalo is perfectly shown by a whole tab in the crafting menu. 
Wolfgang's skill tree has no choice simply because it's horribly designed, instead of adding some kind of strategy to play on it other than "hold down the f button with 2x damage" his skill tree just stupidly pumps up the numbers

[_zwb]

26 minutes ago, loopuleasa said:

Ocean is not complete either, let them cook there too.

They had the time to cook, but they didn't, instead they started yet another wave of character rework. Honestly it's just adding more and more unfinished stuff to the pile.

[Gashzer]

1 minute ago, HondorDrache said:

the fact that you can tame beefalo is perfectly shown by a whole tab in the crafting menu. 
Wolfgang's skill tree has no choice simply because it's horribly designed, instead of adding some kind of strategy to play on it other than "hold down the f button with 2x damage" his skill tree just stupidly pumps up the numbers

I have sat right beside someone in real life as they first started playing DST. What you think is obvious like beefalo taming because its in one of many crafting tabs, simply isn't to new players.

Certain mechanics need several different inputs for people to realise that firstly its a thing they can do and secondly encourage them to try. 

Crafting tab shows someone they can tame beefalos, wigfrids skilltree shows them as well and encourages them to try it.

[HondorDrache]

12 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

Я сидел рядом с кем-то в реальной жизни, когда они впервые начали играть в DST. То, что вы считаете очевидным, например, приручение бифало, потому что это одна из многих вкладок крафта, просто не является очевидным для новых игроков.

Определенным механикам требуется несколько различных вводных данных, чтобы люди, во-первых, поняли, что это то, что они могут сделать, и, во-вторых, побудили их попробовать. 

Вкладка «Ремесло» показывает кому-то, что он может приручить бифало, дерево навыков Вигфрида также показывает им это и призывает их попробовать это сделать.

there is no need to make newbies look like disabled people, for whom it is extremely difficult to just go and look through all the tabs in the crafting menu.   
new players are not blind kittens

[Theukon-dos]

39 minutes ago, loopuleasa said:

Ocean is not complete either, let them cook there too.

The main ocean problem is the sailing control scheme being unfun. That one is the aspect I am most worried about ocean.

Mine brother in Christ Return of them ended 3 years ago. And sense then we've been averaging a single ocean-focused update per year.

You're right, the ocean isn't complete. But Klei has no interest in actually finishing it. And if they are "still cooking" as you say, then the recipe is apparently a Gods-be-Damned Century egg.

 

Also, slightly un-related, but I actually really like how clunky sailing is. And sense boat bumpers where added, the only thing you really need to be worried about running into are sea weeds.

16 minutes ago, _zwb said:

They had the time to cook, but they didn't, instead they started yet another wave of character rework. Honestly it's just adding more and more unfinished stuff to the pile.

More character reworks AND rift content.

[Mysterious box]

3 hours ago, Gashzer said:

Ok so if not many people are making it to the endgame then how is "powercreep" not needed? 

I feel like DST veterans have been spoilt (for lack of a better word) by DST's insane and unreasonable difficulty, its some weird form of stockholm syndrome that because you have spent an unreasonable amount of time getting good at DST that you wrongly expect others to do the same.

Maybe these updates arnt for you guys? Maybe this should be a "i quit" post for all veterans with 10000+hrs.

Skilltrees are alot of fun and if they help new players reach the endgame within a reasonable amount of playtime then thats a massive win.

 

A better question is do most people actually even attempt to make it to the end game? If the answer is no then powerceep wasn't the solution even more so when you consider it's that powercreep that makes people care less about the endgame or exploring why try to accomplish something when you can just pick a specific character for your unique and "rewarding" experience. Skill trees aren't helping new players reach the end game all it's doing is making their current gameplay loop a lot easier and the idea that it should is a flawed idea in concept because if that were the goal all characters should have been balanced around the push but as is often said "balance doesn't matter!" can't have it both ways.

I'll once again say I don't hate skill trees but if we're all being honest with ourselves the only thing they're doing for the majority of people is trivializing the early and mid game with overpowered abilities. Which ironically hinders players from learning and deincentivises exploration. 

The thing is "hard mode" is the only direction the game can go at this point as any content before it is going to be a punching bag for people since it can't account for skill trees.

[dst_lover]

idk why a all this hate on the 2023 and 2024 updates even though they make the game a lot batter i know that skill trees make another power gap but its not as big as some people think if a character like willow become as strong as any top tier its ok and even a good thing but the problem to me at least when a top tier gat a skill tree  like wolfgang when he get his skill tree but its not as strong as willow skill tree or any other skill tree so its not that of a power gap to me at least the only power gap that is with wolfgang and wurt but even then u can just nerf them a little bit , and the end game is very fun and rewarding to get and most of the updates are very good and a lot of fun to play and the thing about skill tree it make a lot of characters fun to play and some characters that u can't play it on late game like woodie they are doing a great job to me at least 

[grm9]

2 minutes ago, dst_lover said:

the end game is very fun and rewarding to get and most of the updates are very good and a lot of fun to play

i usually don't interact with anything that got added since ANR when playing and even if i do CC quest line because of having nothing left to do before pieces, i stop playing in the world after that without interacting with rifts stuff because it's boring and requires you to wait for 15 days to interact with it or multiple seasons for mutated bearger

[dst_lover]

1 minute ago, grm9 said:

i usually don't interact with anything that got added since ANR when playing and even if i do CC quest line because of having nothing left to do before pieces, i stop playing in the world after that without interacting with rifts stuff because it's boring and requires you to wait for 15 days to interact with it or multiple seasons for mutated bearger

u don't need to wait for the rift to be full to fight all the new bosses and what do u mean by waiting for seasons just don't kill your bearger on your 2 year and if u are fast and starts the rifts on your first winter u will not have to wait for any extra seasons and the idea of the rifts that its an end game if u don't went to play more then 90 days on your world just be fast on starting the rifts in your world

[grm9]

Just now, dst_lover said:

u don't need to wait for the rift to be full to fight all the new bosses

you need to wait for that to get brightshades

Just now, dst_lover said:

just don't kill your bearger on your 2 year

i usually do CC in spring, so i need to wait for around 35 days for bearger

1 minute ago, dst_lover said:

if u are fast and starts the rifts on your first winter u will not have to wait for any extra seasons

you still need to wait for 2nd autumn, so at least for 40 days after mutated deerclops

2 minutes ago, dst_lover said:

if u don't went to play more then 90 days on your world just be fast on starting the rifts in your world

you need to wait for around 50 days if you get everything done during spring

[dst_lover]

4 minutes ago, grm9 said:

you need to wait for that to get brightshades

i usually do CC in spring, so i need to wait for around 35 days for bearger

you still need to wait for 2nd autumn, so at least for 40 days after mutated deerclops

you need to wait for around 50 days if you get everything done during spring

wtf are u even saying if u kill the deerclops in your first winter yes u need to wit 40 days but that 40 days u will play it normally and kill your antlion and your moos and making your base and and making farms like its something will happen and u will not full the past of time you are talking like if u make it past your first winter u will Delete your world or stop playing 

[grm9]

6 minutes ago, dst_lover said:

wtf are u even saying if u kill the deerclops in your first winter yes u need to wit 40 days but that 40 days u will play it normally and kill your antlion and your moos and making your base and and making farms like its something will happen and u will not full the past of time

no, i usually stop playing after killing all bosses and since i need to wait for around 35 days if i kill all of them during 1st spring like how i usually do, i just end up not doing mutated bosses because i need to wait for 5 days for varg, 15 for brightshades, around 35 for bearger and around 50 for deerclops and they aren't even fun nor hard, i don't make bases because that's boring

[Swiyss]

1 hour ago, Gashzer said:

I have sat right beside someone in real life as they first started playing DST. What you think is obvious like beefalo taming because its in one of many crafting tabs, simply isn't to new players.

Certain mechanics need several different inputs for people to realise that firstly its a thing they can do and secondly encourage them to try. 

Crafting tab shows someone they can tame beefalos, wigfrids skilltree shows them as well and encourages them to try it.

This might be the case for that person you met, but MANY of the people I introduced dst to are basically learning faster than what you guys are proposing. I think that's just from person to person, not here to only disagree with you, just presenting the facts.

[Antynomity]

2 hours ago, loopuleasa said:

The main ocean problem is the sailing control scheme being unfun. That one is the aspect I am most worried about ocean.

Controlling boats is the fun part, you get your own piece of moving land which is a bit hard to control. There's no reason to do so though because most of the loot either is outclassed by land loot or is unbelievably tedious for no reason to get.

[Swiyss]

44 minutes ago, dst_lover said:

idk why a all this hate

Man I feel you, it might sound like hate, but it's just some critical points of view, please do not take these posts to heart.

Klei devs might feel like "well, they asked for X and we did that, now some others are complaining about the X we did. At the same time, other people are complaining about Y being forgotten because we focused on X, and other are even complaining about the fact that Z is not finished." The pressure is never ending, but that's the nature of this work. I hope you guys understand that these posts are made with love for the game, not hate so don't mix them 2.