沃姆伍德玩家请看这里！ Main Wormwoods,please take a look at this.

[HowlVoid]

6 hours ago, IAmAFurrz said:

klei doesnt care too much bout balance at this point, the scale of escalation will keep going higher and higher.

its not that the game is any less enjoyable imo, but i hope they give wormwood skill tree some love cuz god it is an abomination

This is the thing I'm most scared of. Look what happened to Maxwell. They do this weird thing (happened during reworks) where characters become more complex as the development goes on. 

We started out with throwing torches and we're going to end with Maxwell collapsing mini blackholes.

[ShadowDuelist]

5 minutes ago, HowlVoid said:

This is the thing I'm most scared of. Look what happened to Maxwell. They do this weird thing (happened during reworks) where characters become more complex as the development goes on. 

We started out with throwing torches and we're going to end with Maxwell collapsing mini blackholes.

I think characters like Maxwell will get bland skill trees, much like what happened for Wolfgang. Or they will get QOL perks that do not impact much on their overall power level.
Wanda will probably get a bit more, but not that much anyway: some "defensive" perks against planar insta-death, planar shadow damage and maybe some crowd control or QOL tiny things.

And speaking on Wormwood, hasn't wormwood gotten already like 2 reworks, 2 or 3 versions of skill tree, etc? I mean he will never be perfect, but he got a lot more attention than anyone else. I'd review first some really bland perks of Wilson and maybe Woodie (despite having a decent skill tree, Woodie adds very little option: there is just one shapeshifting obvious path to go, making you a lot weaker than any other Woodie if you don't, which is a shame really)

Also, now that Winona is great, I hope they give all their attention to Walter and Warly eventually.

[HowlVoid]

22 hours ago, arubaro said:

Wormwood is more than perfect and, because a character gets farming perks, doesnt make him less good at farming or at anything else. He already got maaaaany buffs that he didnt needed

Can you name a single buff he didn't need? As far as I can tell, with the way skill trees are going, wormwood would be one of the weakest characters in the roster. The paid character no less. His bramble husk ability was needed as the can't heal character using this ability made little sense. Or do you mean moon shrooms which are the few things setting him apart right now? Winona has tons of aoe damage right now that puts his tools to shame and she can teleport.

Edit: I meant weakest if he didn't have a skill tree. 

 

22 hours ago, arubaro said:

Stop comparing characters! This dumb kind of thinking is what is making every character become wolfgang 2.0. After all the skill trees the only character balanced compared to the content will be wilson...

Stop making the game properly balanced? What?

It is essentially because we are not properly comparing characters that leads to the exact situation you're talking about. I see characters with redundant abilities other characters have because Klei is probably not comparing them. Just looking at what could be added to make them more interesting.

It is BECAUSE character aren't setting boundaries like, how wolf DPS should be max DPS, that we get a Winona dealing 120 damage per catapult. This line of thinking isn't healthy for the game long term. 

[Mysterious box]

32 minutes ago, HowlVoid said:

Stop making the game properly balanced? What?

It is essentially because we are not properly comparing characters that leads to the exact situation you're talking about. I see characters with redundant abilities other characters have because Klei is probably not comparing them. Just looking at what could be added to make them more interesting.

It is BECAUSE character aren't setting boundaries like, how wolf DPS should be max DPS, that we get a Winona dealing 120 damage per catapult. This line of thinking isn't healthy for the game long term.

This is the exact point I keep saying but then most people bring out the ultimate shield known as "balance doesn't matter" "and "it's a sandbox if you don't like it don't use it" acting like it wasn't explicitly stated that skill trees were directly a response to the imbalance character refreshes created.

[Blue Tangerine]

10 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

He can eat jellybeans to regain hp, He can use a batbat to regain hp, he can sleep, and he can use all medicine types to regain hp he even has a skill that makes him use compost wraps faster. If your planning on stopping hordes without getting hit that's what his sleep spores are for his brightshade vines instead punish bigger enemies for successfully attacking him while also giving him breathing room. It's interesting you bring up Wanda as well as she can't heal using food or use the batbat to heal only her watches which are not only on a cooldown but take a full inventory slot per watch. As for the backstep watch have you tried using it in combat yourself? It's definitely not easy to dodge with and for most people they'll end up just getting hit more compare that to Wormwood's sleep spores or vine snare anyone can use those without a expert combat sense. 

 

This comparison doesn't even make sense because Wormwood actually has skills that directly have effects that relate to his survivability. The logic your using is like saying Wes is the best early game combat character because his speedy balloon helps with kiting due to the speed boost making you less likely to get hit even if you ignore the obvious elephant in the room it relies on the player being skilled to reach those results.

-He can eat jellybeans to regain hp, he can sleep, and he can use all medicine types to regain hp

Everyone else can do it too except Wanda

-He can use a batbat to regain hp

Batbat is weakened in new version

-he even has a skill that makes him use compost wraps faster.

In fact that is the biggest misleading, Wormwood's compost wrap isn't great at regaining HP, it only slowly regains 40 HP, while most other characters can easily regain more HP by eating food like pierogi,dragonpie,tall scotch egg. 

-If your planning on stopping hordes without getting hit that's what his sleep spores are for his brightshade vines instead punish bigger enemies for successfully attacking him while also giving him breathing room.

Not all enemies can be hypnotized.For example,shadow creatures. 

-It's interesting you bring up Wanda as well as she can't heal using food or use the batbat to heal only her watches which are not only on a cooldown but take a full inventory slot per watch. As for the backstep watch have you tried using it in combat yourself? It's definitely not easy to dodge with and for most people they'll end up just getting hit more compare that to Wormwood's sleep spores

Partially true, but Wormwood is nowhere near as powerful as Wanda, also, my unskilled use of backstep watch is because I'm a rookie, and in the hands of someone sophisticated in its use, backstep watch can help a player dodge a lot of damage. Don't you find that ironic? Wormwood has a skill tree, but he's not even as powerful as a character without one.

-This comparison doesn't even make sense because Wormwood actually has skills that directly have effects that relate to his survivability. 

The only skill relates to his survivability is Photosynthesis,but it's still not good enough，even after being enhanced once before,it just jump from"E "to"B",not even close to A. 

-The logic your using is like saying Wes is the best early game combat character because his speedy balloon helps with kiting due to the speed boost making you less likely to get hit even if you ignore the obvious elephant in the room it relies on the player being skilled to reach those results.

I didn't say so, the example I gave was just to show that the spore skill is not directly related to regaining HP, the only skill can make up his disadvantage in regeneration is photosynthesis,but it's far from great. 

Besides,none of you  have answered me that what does merm have to do with AOE spike. 

 

 

[Wonz]

16 hours ago, Blue Tangerine said:

1, Seeds planted by Wormwood will not be affected by stress of "Family" since he is a living plant himself. 

Was about to say it makes it too easy to make nice some combinations, it does but also it enables more of them since they would be only limited by nutrients so it has its up and down.

16 hours ago, Blue Tangerine said:

2, Strengthen the Brambleshade Armor spike,it deals 22.7 physical damage and 10 planar damage(increases 5 planar damage ). 

I was wondering if worm could craft bramble set where weapon has faster attack animation what would indirectly buff the damage by shooting spikes more often

 

16 hours ago, Blue Tangerine said:

3, Strengthen the effect of photosynthesis again,Wormwood regenerates1HP every 5 seconds in full bloom, slightly weaker than Woodie in his moose form.

This boring perk needs to be replaced by something worthy of being at the end of tree's branch.
If i had to figure out how to make it better it would be just him charging up an ability while in sun. Once charged he could release a burst to heal himself and allies around. Doesn't that sound more interesting and interactive?
Though Single charge probably would be pretty bad, people can just casualy hold 20 pierogi, the burst could restore sanity to others too since sanity food is a bit harder to get than HP food

 

16 hours ago, Blue Tangerine said:

Both of 3 and 4 are aimed to solve the problem that Wormwood's weakness in regaining health. 

.That's the whole point of wormwood when you're not farming. It's good if he needs to find a good moment to heal. He's sort of harder mode that isn't as miserable as being Wes.

 

16 hours ago, Blue Tangerine said:

6, Reduce the targeting range of Brightshades to Wormwood,like what clockwork creatures do to WX78. It will be easier for Wormwood to tame treeguards. 

He already is on good terms with sea weeds so that makes sense.

 

16 hours ago, Blue Tangerine said:

5, Add new effects in Bee Kind,Wormwood will be able to catch bees, butterflies, and moon moths with bare hands, and catch bees without provoking killer bees.

One thing with bees he sure needs to be outside of perks is that they are annoying when wormwood is blooming, they swarm him and now it's hard to click things around his feet.
If bees are friendly to blooming worm they should attack whoever hits him. That annoying ability to attract bees is only useful in spring when bees are angry at everything but him so he could use a group of bees to slay spider queen so it would be nice if he could aggro them on monsters during other seasons.

[Blue Tangerine]

1 minute ago, Wonz said:

Was about to say it makes it too easy to make nice some combinations, it does but also it enables more of them since they would be only limited by nutrients so it has its up and down.

I was wondering if worm could craft bramble set where weapon has faster attack animation what would indirectly buff the damage by shooting spikes more often

 

This boring perk needs to be replaced by something worthy of being at the end of tree's branch.
If i had to figure out how to make it better it would be just him charging up an ability while in sun. Once charged he could release a burst to heal himself and allies around. Doesn't that sound more interesting and interactive?
Though Single charge probably would be pretty bad, people can just casualy hold 20 pierogi, the burst could restore sanity to others too since sanity food is a bit harder to get than HP food

 

.That's the whole point of wormwood when you're not farming. It's good if he needs to find a good moment to heal. He's sort of harder mode that isn't as miserable as being Wes.

 

He already is on good terms with sea weeds so that makes sense.

 

One thing with bees he sure needs to be outside of perks is that they are annoying when wormwood is blooming, they swarm him and now it's hard to click things around his feet.
If bees are friendly to blooming worm they should attack whoever hits him. That annoying ability to attract bees is only useful in spring when bees are angry at everything but him so he could use a group of bees to slay spider queen so it would be nice if he could aggro them on monsters during other seasons.

-Was about to say it makes it too easy to make nice some combinations, it does but also it enables more of them since they would be only limited by nutrients so it has its up and down.

My initial idea was making seeds ignore the pressure of "Season",but then I thought that's too much. 

-This boring perk needs to be replaced by something worthy of being at the end of tree's branch.
If i had to figure out how to make it better it would be just him charging up an ability while in sun. Once charged he could release a burst to heal himself and allies around. Doesn't that sound more interesting and interactive?

Fantastic idea. 

-they swarm him and now it's hard to click things around his feet.

Ah,yes,that bothers me too.

[Mysterious box]

1 hour ago, Blue Tangerine said:

Everyone else can do it too except Wanda

Does that mean Wanda needs a buff too?

1 hour ago, Blue Tangerine said:

Batbat is weakened in new version

Still applies though no?

1 hour ago, Blue Tangerine said:

In fact that is the biggest misleading, Wormwood's compost wrap isn't great at regaining HP, it only slowly regains 40 HP, while most other characters can easily regain more HP by eating food like pierogi,dragonpie,tall scotch egg. 

Compost wrap is easier to mass produce than dragonpies and even then with his crowd control options this isn't a issue or you can simply honey poultice instead. Either way he has far more freedom to heal than most other characters even if he can't use food to do it.

1 hour ago, Blue Tangerine said:

Not all enemies can be hypnotized.For example,shadow creatures. 

 

I mean sure but considering how easy it is to control his sanity that's not really a issue for Wormwood in most cases anyway even more so now that they properly deaggro now. Other mobs who can't don't swarm you or prevent you from backing away to heal to my knowledge.

1 hour ago, Blue Tangerine said:

Partially true, but Wormwood is nowhere near as powerful as Wanda, also, my unskilled use of backstep watch is because I'm a rookie, and in the hands of someone sophisticated in its use, backstep watch can help a player dodge a lot of damage. Don't you find that ironic? Wormwood has a skill tree, but he's not even as powerful as a character without one.

This is highly debatable when you say Wanda is stronger than Wormwood what are you comparing specifically? Wormwood's bramble armor prevents any situation that would lead to stunlocking, While not as high as Wanda his skills combine to give him a higher than normal damage output. He has superior crowd control abilities compare to Wanda by a lot. Getting hit while healing doesn't cancel his overtime healing nor does it waste the heal like it does with Wanda. He has a built in speed boost unlike Wanda as well as various other things. Wormwood excels at combat even if he doesn't have a damage multiplier or a ranged weapon he just in a more tactical way.

1 hour ago, Blue Tangerine said:

The only skill relates to his survivability is Photosynthesis,but it's still not good enough，even after being enhanced once before,it just jump from"E "to"B",not even close to A. 

How does his his armor effects, sleep spores, and speed not factor into his survivability? Survivability does not just mean healing.

1 hour ago, Blue Tangerine said:

I didn't say so, the example I gave was just to show that the spore skill is not directly related to regaining HP, the only skill can make up his disadvantage in regeneration is photosynthesis,but it's far from great. 

So let me ask you this are your saying that preventing a enemy from reaching you while you recover and reorganize has no effect on your survivability?

1 hour ago, Blue Tangerine said:

Besides,none of you  have answered me that what does merm have to do with AOE spike.

I mean why do shattered spiders shoot spikes out of the ground that deal aoe damage? What does that have to do with spiders? Why do merms become nightmare creatures? It's less about the species themselves and more what these powers do to them. What does a merm have to do with a aoe spike? It's just what the lunar mutation did to them.

[Blue Tangerine]

3 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Does that mean Wanda needs a buff too?

Still applies though no?

Compost wrap is easier to mass produce than dragonpies and even then with his crowd control options this isn't a issue or you can simply honey poultice instead. Either way he has far more freedom to heal than most other characters even if he can't use food to do it.

I mean sure but considering how easy it is to control his sanity that's not really a issue for Wormwood in most cases anyway even more so now that they properly deaggro now. Other mobs who can't don't swarm you or prevent you from backing away to heal to my knowledge.

This is highly debatable when you say Wanda is stronger than Wormwood what are you comparing specifically? Wormwood's bramble armor prevents any situation that would lead to stunlocking, While not as high as Wanda his skills combine to give him a higher than normal damage output. He has superior crowd control abilities compare to Wanda by a lot. Getting hit while healing doesn't cancel his overtime healing nor does it waste the heal like it does with Wanda. He has a built in speed boost unlike Wanda as well as various other things. Wormwood excels at combat even if he doesn't have a damage multiplier or a ranged weapon he just in a more tactical way.

How does his his armor effects, sleep spores, and speed not factor into his survivability? Survivability does not just mean healing.

So let me ask you this are your saying that preventing a enemy from reaching you while you recover and reorganize has no effect on your survivability?

I mean why do shattered spiders shoot spikes out of the ground that deal aoe damage? What does that have to do with spiders? Why do merms become nightmare creatures? It's less about the species themselves and more what these powers do to them. What does a merm have to do with a aoe spike? It's just what the lunar mutation did to them.

-Does that mean Wanda needs a buff too?

I think she will get some when she gets her skill tree

-Still applies though no?

No,I said it's weakened,not disabled

-Compost wrap is easier to mass produce than dragonpies and even then with his crowd control options this isn't a issue or you can simply honey poultice instead. 

The former one is not true,Compost wrap cost large amount of manures ,nitres and rots,as for the later one,yes,but honey poultice only heals 30HP

-I mean sure but considering how easy it is to control his sanity that's not really a issue for Wormwood in most cases anyway even more so now that they properly deaggro now. Other mobs who can't don't swarm you or prevent you from backing away to heal to my knowledge.

That's irrelevant. 

-This is highly debatable when you say Wanda is stronger than Wormwood what are you comparing specifically?

She is more agile,deals much more damage,less sanity cost,and more importantly,longer attack range. 

-Wormwood's bramble armor prevents any situation that would lead to stunlocking, While not as high as Wanda his skills combine to give him a higher than normal damage output. He has superior crowd control abilities compare to Wanda by a lot. Getting hit while healing doesn't cancel his overtime healing nor does it waste the heal like it does with Wanda. He has a built in speed boost unlike Wanda as well as various other things.

Wanda doesn't have a skill tree,Wormwood has one but his skills can't cover his regeneration shortcomings. 

-So let me ask you this are your saying that preventing a enemy from reaching you while you recover and reorganize has no effect on your survivability?

No,I am saying it's not good enough. 

-I mean why do shattered spiders shoot spikes out of the ground that deal aoe damage? What does that have to do with spiders? Why do merms become nightmare creatures? It's less about the species themselves and more what these powers do to them. What does a merm have to do with a aoe spike? It's just what the lunar mutation did to them.

The spike of lunar merms is a direct copy of Wormwood's husk, lunar merms could totally have a new and more unique skill, also, please don't cite Willow's lunar flames and Possesed Varg as an example,that is a character copying a boss's skill, these are two completely different things. 

 

 

 

 

[Mysterious box]

5 minutes ago, Blue Tangerine said:

The former one is not true,Compost wrap cost large amount of manures ,nitres and rots,as for the later one,yes,but honey poultice only heals 30HP

A beefalo bell solves the manure and excess food solves the rot or you could rush both with light bulbs, making nitre the only cost which becomes more available as the world goes on. Also 30 hp is only 10 less than pierogi.

8 minutes ago, Blue Tangerine said:

That's irrelevant. 

How explain?

8 minutes ago, Blue Tangerine said:

She is more agile,deals much more damage,less sanity cost,and more importantly,longer attack range.

She is not more agile Wormwood is faster than her, She deals more 1v1 damage but Wormwood deals more damage to groups, how does she have less sanity cost? Wormwood has the better sanity recovery methods heck the mushrooms he consumes to use his sleep spores restores his sanity as well. As for attack range that's subjective considering his auto resetting bramble traps exist.

11 minutes ago, Blue Tangerine said:

Wanda doesn't have a skill tree,Wormwood has one but his skills can't cover his regeneration shortcomings. 

But they do his skills give you breathing room to heal as well as reduce the odds of you taking more damage what are you expecting Wanda's skill tree to do? Remove her age system or something?

13 minutes ago, Blue Tangerine said:

No,I am saying it's not good enough.

How isn't it good enough? What's lacking? He's got high damage potential, great defensive abilities, speed, and various support and production abilities.

14 minutes ago, Blue Tangerine said:

The spike of lunar merms is a direct copy of Wormwood's husk, lunar merms could totally have a new and more unique skill, also, please don't cite Willow's lunar flames and Possesed Varg as an example,that is a character copying a boss's skill, these are two completely different things.

His carrats are a direct copy of Maxwell's shadow servants, his brightshade armor snare is a copy of Maxwell's shadow prison to a similar extent of your merm comparison, and his plant crafts are inspired by Wilson's transmutations.

[Blue Tangerine]

5 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

A beefalo bell solves the manure and excess food solves the rot or you could rush both with light bulbs, making nitre the only cost which becomes more available as the world goes on. Also 30 hp is only 10 less than pierogi.

How explain?

She is not more agile Wormwood is faster than her, She deals more 1v1 damage but Wormwood deals more damage to groups, how does she have less sanity cost? Wormwood has the better sanity recovery methods heck the mushrooms he consumes to use his sleep spores restores his sanity as well. As for attack range that's subjective considering his auto resetting bramble traps exist.

But they do his skills give you breathing room to heal as well as reduce the odds of you taking more damage what are you expecting Wanda's skill tree to do? Remove her age system or something?

How isn't it good enough? What's lacking? He's got high damage potential, great defensive abilities, speed, and various support and production abilities.

His carrats are a direct copy of Maxwell's shadow servants, his brightshade armor snare is a copy of Maxwell's shadow prison to a similar extent of your merm comparison, and his plant crafts are inspired by Wilson's transmutations.

-Maxwell's shadow prison to a similar extent of your merm comparison, and his plant crafts are inspired by Wilson's transmutations.

That makes no sense. Do you expect carrats chopping trees and mining rocks for you?

[Faintly Macabre]

5 hours ago, HowlVoid said:

This is the thing I'm most scared of. Look what happened to Maxwell. They do this weird thing (happened during reworks) where characters become more complex as the development goes on. 

We started out with throwing torches and we're going to end with Maxwell collapsing mini blackholes.

This is unfortunately a pretty predictable consequence of making all the gameplay balance decisions and other content additions a little bit at a time over the course of a decade. I wish they'd switch gears, and instead of trying to add everything piecemeal for the foreseeable future they work to a substantial breaking point in the plot and just, stop and start work on a DS2 (or 3?). We need a new world with some new rules, we need to shed a decade of accumulated cruft, and they really need to be able to get another $20-30 out of everybody who wants to enjoy it because I don't think their monetization model supports what the game needs: to move on.

[Mysterious box]

8 minutes ago, Blue Tangerine said:

That makes no sense. Do you expect carrats chopping trees and mining rocks for you?

I mean the merms aoe spikes have a cooldown and since they don't come from you don't protect you in the same way Wormwood's does so that's not a 1 to 1 comparison either.

[Blue Tangerine]

3 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

I mean the merms aoe spikes have a cooldown and since they don't come from you don't protect you in the same way Wormwood's does so that's not a 1 to 1 comparison either.

before lunar merms,aoe spike is a exclusive perk for wormwood,also,lunar merms protect wurt

[Mysterious box]

7 minutes ago, Blue Tangerine said:

before lunar merms,aoe spike is a exclusive perk for wormwood,also,lunar merms protect wurt

Before Wormwood's carrats followers that pick up stuff was a exclusive skill of Maxwell and while merms do protect Wurt they usually focus on one target at a time and as such they generally won't be able to stop a swarm from comboing her if she gets caught in the middle of a loop of attacks.

[Blue Tangerine]

3 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

A beefalo bell solves the manure and excess food solves the rot or you could rush both with light bulbs, making nitre the only cost which becomes more available as the world goes on. Also 30 hp is only 10 less than pierogi.

How explain?

She is not more agile Wormwood is faster than her, She deals more 1v1 damage but Wormwood deals more damage to groups, how does she have less sanity cost? Wormwood has the better sanity recovery methods heck the mushrooms he consumes to use his sleep spores restores his sanity as well. As for attack range that's subjective considering his auto resetting bramble traps exist.

But they do his skills give you breathing room to heal as well as reduce the odds of you taking more damage what are you expecting Wanda's skill tree to do? Remove her age system or something?

How isn't it good enough? What's lacking? He's got high damage potential, great defensive abilities, speed, and various support and production abilities.

His carrats are a direct copy of Maxwell's shadow servants, his brightshade armor snare is a copy of Maxwell's shadow prison to a similar extent of your merm comparison, and his plant crafts are inspired by Wilson's transmutations.

-A beefalo bell solves the manure and excess food solves the rot or you could rush both with light bulbs, making nitre the only cost which becomes more available as the world goes on. Also 30 hp is only 10 less than pierogi.

Dragonpie and pierogi can heal 40 HP instantly,compost wrap heals much less efficiently. 

[Mysterious box]

1 minute ago, Blue Tangerine said:

Dragonpie and piercing can heal 40 HP instantly,compost wrap heals much less efficiently.

Honestly I don't think many people even use dragonpies despite them being easier to make with the farming system update it's simply more work for something that easier options exist for.

[Blue Tangerine]

3 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Before Wormwood's carrats followers that pick up stuff was a exclusive skill of Maxwell and while merms do protect Wurt they usually focus on one target at a time and as such they generally won't be able to stop a swarm from comboing her if she gets caught in the middle of a loop of attacks.

How on earth is carrots same as shadow servants?Carrots only pick up food and seeds. 

Just now, Mysterious box said:

Honestly I don't think many people even use dragonpies despite them being easier to make with the farming system update it's simply more work for something that easier options exist for.

Wurt does,she's a vegetarian

[Mysterious box]

2 minutes ago, Blue Tangerine said:

How on earth is carrots same as shadow servants?Carrots only pick up food and seeds. 

And Lunar merms have a cooldown and don't give their spikes directly to Wurt making them immediately less useful than Wormwood's version.'

 

3 minutes ago, Blue Tangerine said:

Wurt does,she's a vegetarian

Most Wurts ( at least before this update) didn't really farm and even ones that did would generally stick to tomatoes and potatoes which are easier to grow.

[Blue Tangerine]

36 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

A beefalo bell solves the manure and excess food solves the rot or you could rush both with light bulbs, making nitre the only cost which becomes more available as the world goes on. Also 30 hp is only 10 less than pierogi.

How explain?

She is not more agile Wormwood is faster than her, She deals more 1v1 damage but Wormwood deals more damage to groups, how does she have less sanity cost? Wormwood has the better sanity recovery methods heck the mushrooms he consumes to use his sleep spores restores his sanity as well. As for attack range that's subjective considering his auto resetting bramble traps exist.

But they do his skills give you breathing room to heal as well as reduce the odds of you taking more damage what are you expecting Wanda's skill tree to do? Remove her age system or something?

How isn't it good enough? What's lacking? He's got high damage potential, great defensive abilities, speed, and various support and production abilities.

His carrats are a direct copy of Maxwell's shadow servants, his brightshade armor snare is a copy of Maxwell's shadow prison to a similar extent of your merm comparison, and his plant crafts are inspired by Wilson's transmutations.

-How explain?

How could his advantage in regaining sanity covers his disadvantage in regaining HP?

-But they do his skills give you breathing room to heal as well as reduce the odds of you taking more damage what are you expecting Wanda's skill tree to do? Remove her age system or something?

That's out of reason,are we going back to"The Wolfgang Loop"?

As for wanda,she simply needs extra slots for her watch. I actually add a mod to do that. 

2 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

And Lunar merms have a cooldown and don't give their spikes directly to Wurt making them immediately less useful than Wormwood's version.'

 

Most Wurts ( at least before this update) didn't really farm and even ones that did would generally stick to tomatoes and potatoes which are easier to grow.

Intresting,that's not a situation I have seen,farming benefits wurts a lot,main wurts who I know about attach much importance to farming. 

6 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

And Lunar merms have a cooldown and don't give their spikes directly to Wurt making them immediately less useful than Wormwood's version.'

 

Most Wurts ( at least before this update) didn't really farm and even ones that did would generally stick to tomatoes and potatoes which are easier to grow.

-And Lunar merms have a cooldown and don't give their spikes directly to Wurt making them immediately less useful than Wormwood's version.'

Merely fair,let's back to the HP problem then,I still think  suggestions 3 and 4 are necessary. 

[Mysterious box]

1 minute ago, Blue Tangerine said:

How could his advantage in regaining sanity covers his disadvantage in regaining HP?

 

3 hours ago, Blue Tangerine said:

Not all enemies can be hypnotized.For example,shadow creatures. 

That wasn't the context of the question. You also claimed Wanda had better sanity than Wormwood which I still don't understand.

5 minutes ago, Blue Tangerine said:

That's out of reason,are we going back to"The Wolfgang Loop"?

This is illogical are you seriously telling me defensive skills don't effect survivability?

[Blue Tangerine]

1 minute ago, Mysterious box said:

 

That wasn't the context of the question. You also claimed Wanda had better sanity than Wormwood which I still don't understand.

This is illogical are you seriously telling me defensive skills don't effect survivability?

-You also claimed Wanda had better sanity than Wormwood which I still don't understand.

It costs less sanity for Wanda to equip Night Swords

-This is illogical are you seriously telling me defensive skills don't effect survivability?

His husk doesn't make up his  HP problem

[Mysterious box]

Just now, Blue Tangerine said:

It costs less sanity for Wanda to equip Night Swords

Wormwood's main defensive option recovers a lot of sanity as does planting anything countering the drain of a dark sword or most anything else really.

1 minute ago, Blue Tangerine said:

His husk doesn't make up his  HP problem

It does when combined with his other tools.

[Blue Tangerine]

11 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Wormwood's main defensive option recovers a lot of sanity as does planting anything countering the drain of a dark sword or most anything else really.

It does when combined with his other tools.

What a mess,let me run through it, I take shadow creatures for an example to prove that spore can't be useful against all enemy hordes,not for regain sanity. 

-It does when combined with his other tools

Like honey poultice? not again. 

The"mess " indicates that our discussion is out of track,I'm not attacking you. 

[reddocc]

It's not a big deal for wormwood that wurt has sightly easier time farming. One thing I would like to make wormwood an even better farmer is to be able to reduce stress points from crops